01:50:36pm, Thursday, April 18, 2024
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Track building a lost art?
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It seems fewer and fewer people at events know how to build good pulling tracks. The more events I attend, the more sub-par tracks I see. No matter if it's a local fair or a big national pull, track building doesn't seem to be what it used to be.
I for one wouldn't call Bowling Green's track a power track. The dirt on it looks more suited for planting corn than pulling tractors. The preparation is fine out there, but the dirt isn't right in my opinion. It should have more clay in it so it will pack good. Other tracks, on the local level, don't seem to know what to do in the preparation. I've seen it several times this year alone. A set of discs go over the track and then the what is thrown on, mixed and then the roller comes on. Those discs won't rip deep enough for a good base. Does anyone remember the chisel plow, or a grader with a ripper? You might as well be pulling on marbles with a track plowed than shallow. Is it just me or is this disturbing trend happening everywhere? |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I think a lot of places like B.G. have found that the more clay in a track the harder it gets over a long day of pulling. Most would rather see a more consistent track that may be less of a power track over a really hard one at the end of the day. I know of at least two clay tracks that have been adding organic matter to their tracks over the last few years to make them less likely to get to hard. I think there was talk of something similar about B.G. a few years ago.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Correct you are, Todd.
During one of the day sessions at BG, they asked about the dirt and track building process. The said just that about the organic matter- they put organic matter into it. Also, they use what they call "Pine Sol" (not sure if it's actually pine sol, or some substance that they've just given that name to), instead of just water on the sprayers. Except for the Sunday afternoon PS hook where it appeared to go away a little, the Blue Shirts built one of the most consistent tracks I've ever seen. The Super Farm class is proof of that. 72 of them and even near the end, guys were still running up there with the early hooks. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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WI SF Puller
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I live in WI the state of red clay. Every year tracks seem to get worse 30 hooks this year and about 3 of them were on good power tracks. It is getting nuts. We have the right dirt, but we don't use it. Tractors with way less power that can hook up to the track just keep doing better. I know there is more to tractor pulling than just having the most power, but that should be one of the biggest parts. How fast of a ratio can you run for petes sake? Spin your wheels is all you can do. Then to pull at race tracks when they do nothing to the track other than sprickle a little water on it. Race trackes are like pulling on cement when they don't work them up. You know its bad when you can smell your OH so cheap tires burning off. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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JD John
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I noticed that the South track seemed 'looser' than in past years. There was a lot of loose dirt in front of the sled. I do think that the tractors were 'hooking' in to the track well ... and throwing chunks of dirt into the air past the sled operator. I was amazed at the speed the Pro Stocks were moving on the south track saturday night.
I've been going to Bowling Green since 1969 and they do a great job with the tracks. When they were discing and grading it this year I could tell it had less total clay in it. I can remember pulling there in the early 70's and that was a slick track if it got a tad damp. Yes .. they said they mix Pine Sol with the water so it sticks to the dirt longer. (evaporates less?) John |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Here in Illinois we have only had 5 good power tracks out of 24 and three of them was partly because it rained that day! |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Soillpullfan
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Do u consider Waterloo one of the good tracks in Illinois? |
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JIM MILLER....The best
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Anonymous User
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Here in Ohio everyone can tell you that Jim Miller builds one heck of a track. Maybe NTPA can have him do the promoter's workshop and have the subject be "building a track" |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Anonymous User
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Mt Sterling was a joke of a track for a GN hook. Great iron---poor track, you cant have unl mods running with there noses on the ground!!! |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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BG Puller
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Oliver, if you think that Bowlings Greens tracks are not power tracks than you have not done much pulling... |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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All I'm saying is that it seemed to take more power before they changed the dirt a few years back. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
Maybe the tracks are just as good as they used to be, but now everyone has twice the horsepower they had back in the day and they're making it look easy to spin the tires? |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Outlaw Puller
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As a puller, I don't think the tracks are what they used to be. The statements of less clay and more sand / loose dirt are the basic problem. The big tire classes don't generally like what the smaller tire classes like for a track. When you have a soil that doesn't pack well and then you over water it, you then have a soft (mud in some cases) track. For some vehicles (large tire tractors) this is fine as they come off the line wide open (or close to it) and have a large tire footprint and away they go. In general a track like this will get better for the smaller tire vehicles as it gets pulled on because it is getting packed and slightly drier in most cases, so the guy at the end of the class is just smiling away and waiting for his turn. Now if it is just a loose "semi" wet track the first pass may be the best as it will continue to break up and not pack throughout the class. There are good tracks still out there; they are just not that common anymore. A tear comes to my eye when I think about what the folks in Hinton, IA did to that track a couple years ago. it used to be great, now it is junk. I guess that is what happens when you dump several feet of fill on the track. On the other hand the folks in Sioux Falls did a great job with a track that had a stage sitting on it for the last 8 - 9 years.
Just my opinion.... |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Posts: 508 |
It's all easy to throw mud at the guys trying their darn-est to make a track out of what they have to work with! you should try it sometime,you will have characters come up to you and suggest that's not right , this is wrong , you are doing it wrong,etc.etc. they complain that some track cost em big in motor repairs, etc. when was the last time you saw a competitor marched up to the line on front of armed guards! you have a choice? if you don't like what you see-don't pull! One of the best tracks I have seen was an alfalfa field just before the event! beautiful soil,held moisture well and lots of traction! you try your best and hopefully improve on it next year! |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Looking for opinions on resurfacing a track. We have a track with clay on it and need to add more. I want to rip up the existing track with chisel plow, add water because it is so dry with no rain in weeks and spread 360 yrds of more clay on top of that add more water and disc it up grade it, and pack. We have some people who think all that needs to be done is scrape the existing track with a dozer to level it, add more clay then disc it and lets go pullin. I'm afraid if we don't rip up the existing track and knead the old with the new, we will have a track that will have blow outs where tractors spin out. Meaning they will spin down down to the hard existing track and peal the clay off causing some wild rides. We are adding 6 inches on top. Not a lot of material. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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HP
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You are right to rip up the old track first.
The time to do this is the day after your pull is over this year! Do NOT add dirt, clay, sand or anything just before a pull this year! Unless it is a 6 th grade level pull. Or antique tractors. Then add any time. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Waiting until after the pull I don't think is an option. Last year at our pull the track got rained on and was a mess. They had me doing the grading for the past 2years, and it took me that long to get the track in shape because everybody knows best. But last year they had a different guy doing the grading and just made a mess of everything. every time he came back down the track the box was full and he didn't know where to go with it. So it got left in piles and it stayed like that all winter because it never stopped raining after that , now it's pretty much gone so we have to put something on . I kind of pushing my way back in so we can give the pullers the track we can, |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Too Much Water
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I've been to 15 pulls this year and at 3 of them they needed to throw the keys to the water truck away....The tracks were way over watered and caused lots of problems...One pull started nearly 1 hour late because of this....At Jeff City Friday evening I thought that the east track was plenty wet for the Unlimited Mods.. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Tucker Tracks (R)
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Klint can build a very good track, all these other track crews need to do,........ is watch and listen!
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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big nut carb
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What we are talking about are tractors. Do tractors not face different types of soil conditions from one end of the field
to the other? Some times the puller is at fault as much as the track. Most good pullers will be able to compensate for less than desireable track conditions. If you are a puller that goes to the pull and never sees the track until you hook you may have troubles. There are as many adjustables avaliable to the puller as are to the track builder sometimes more. Tracks can and will change through out a pull. Some pullers want to be able to spin and throw dirt while others have power and just want to hook up. I like a track that can tear the lugs from the tires. I agree sometimes tracks could and should be better. No matter what we all pull on the same track and someone will win. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
A number of issues are at work here I suspect in building a track. First and foremost, we're seeing a reduction in organic matter in tracks because of the water we're using. Most tracks are watered with municipal water---containing chlorine---and the chlorine acts against the parent organic matter, chemically changing the structure of the soil dramatically even though organic matter composes only 5% of most soils. Introducing more organic matter and planting a cover crop, not to mention maybe using some pond/river water as well to water in a track will improve track conditions. Lime is helpful, but too much will turn the track into a roadbed.
Track condition is also predicated on the tracks' uses---was there a demo derby the night before? a mud sling? Those kinds of things can determine how a track can come together. The human element is also at work here. While some folks are able to thankfully dedicate days prior to an event to working the soil up, adding water, etc... to make the track the best it can be, quite frankly there have been places where Ive shown up at the same time as the track workers, because they have full-time jobs they couldnt leave. While in the perfect world the power track is the one we want, a consistent track should be the benchmark. Whenever the first puller and the last puller in a class of 30 take on basically the same track conditions you can't ask for more. I thought the Blue Shirts did a good job with the 72 Super Farms at BG and the lengths they went to monitor the track and adjust through the class was very good. I wrote an article two or three years ago about track building in The Puller. Don't let anything I've just written suggest I'm an expert, I just repeat what I've been told in discussions with those in the know. Re-reading some stuff in old soil science books and having a wife thats a chemistry teacher (me: whats Sodium hypochlorite? wife: its BLEACH Bryan...) didn't hurt the cause either.  Bryan Lively - 
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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The issue is two-fold. Once you build a good track, maintaining it is just as critical. Too many times I've seen a decent track built only to have it destroyed by the end of the night from poor scraper driving, such as filling in the holes, but not feathering the dirt back onto the track. Before long, there is a pit on one side and a mountain on the other of the track. The track can also degrade from not putting dirt back into the area where the pan first drops. If the sled drags harder with the grousers on the pan, dirt will be pulled up once the pan drops. That dirt needs to go back where it came from so as not to build a dip in the track. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Posts: 756 |
This is one of the problems I see with a all voulnteer track crew, No body really knows how to properly maintain a pull track. The scraper operator has to be both smart and quick to do a good job. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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plum krazeey
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when the new modern tractors with 3-4 k hp,they want looser tracks so they can spin 120mph tire speed.Just saying,many places have added sand to be able to stop the units at 300-340. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Fort recovery always seems to us to be a power track |
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sticky additives
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Definitely lots of variables involved. I've always wondered what would happen if you sprayed some VHT (for drag racing) into the tilled up dirt. Probably would hook good but would stick the sled pan:-( Also, the next time you visit Brookstone, take a look at that sculpting sand that they sell. It compacts together really tight for sand. Not sure what the secret ingredient is but it makes sand stick together. 
I'd say keep Dan Christiani or Jim Miller close by. Maybe some of the better track preparation can be videoed and posted on a pulling youtube channel that promoters can learn from. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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awesome johnny
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I have beem in charge of the tractor pull commitie at our fair for the last 15 years.and have been in charge of building the track,i have learned a lot in 15 years,but now I get to start over because we will move to our new fair grounds this year with all new dirt(clay) and no past experience with this new dirt.but we had jim miller down and talked to him a year ago about our old clay and the new clay that we want to use and he liked what he seen with our new clay but it will be a challenge im afraid. but what I have learned is don't tear it up 8 to 10 inches only go about 5 to 6 inches. then ad your water by layers not all at one time and have a good sheeps foot to pack it back down to interlock that dirt back together just my opinion thanks brad holmes co. fair millers burg oh. hope to see you at our new fair aug. 8 thru the 13 it will be a great experience for all |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Their
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Was their last year and pulled on it, it was the worst track we pulled on all year track was hard, yes they sheep footed it and that just sealed it and made track hard and dry , I hope new place is better |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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The v-type scrapers are a thing of the past. They take too much dirt with them & it usually ends up in a pile @ the end of the track. Once you use a cross bar "leveling" scraper, you'll never go back to a V style blade. I see the same problem with track building around here too & it usually stems from laziness. Seems to be worse in the higher levels too. It just sucks for the pullers who drive hours for one hook & have to pull in a dust pit or a mud hole. Some of the "officials" in the local organizations seem to know just the right buttons to push to screw it up. Lol. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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trying to be helpful
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Cody, if your "cross bar leveling scraper" is the same thing as a 'drag box', then it is creating ripples in the track. The faster the drag box is pulled, the more it ripples. Those track ripples can be evident in every class with the FWD's reacting very poorly to all those ripples as it produces (severe) bouncing.
We use drag boxes in the excavating business in order to move volumes of dirt and stone aggregate. The rippling is very evident here, too. When we need a proper flat surface, a grader with its blade on a good angle is the only way to remove those ripples. A properly prepared track that is easily maintained with a properly positioned double v-scraper (top link adjustment needs to be fine tuned) will move very little dirt off the track. A big key to help make that a success is having a proper dirt grate on the front end of the skid steer loader that quickly fills in the pulling tire holes prior to the arrival of the track scraper and rubber tire packer. A (double) steel drum roller is detrimental to maintaining a well functioning pulling track. Any type of 'salt' and chlorine and magnesium (dolomitic lime) added to the silt/clay soil is very detrimental to the track. It will make it hard with moisture level very hard to control. Those compounds will make the track either a soup bowl or a concrete pad. Very difficult to find the just right in between situation. No different than out in the farm field. As Eric stated, need to use "natural' water and grow organic matter. Calcitic lime reacts much differently than dolomitic lime. Almost all soils respond well to calcitic lime since the silt and clay soils are usually already high in natural magnesium, meaning more calcitic lime is needed to counter balance the natural magnesium. However, if it is a sand track, that is a different scenario and may actually need to add some magnesium. Having a good soil test report and knowing how to interpret the analysis with a proper knowledge of the soil chemical interactions is imperative. Unfortunately, not many understand the relationship between available calcium and available magnesium ratios. Every track has its pros and cons. As anything in life, pay attention to the basics. Too often, the unnatural and exotic things get us into trouble. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
I'm a garden tractor puller,we use 220-300 ft tracks.granted our tractors don't move as much dirt,and don't dig deep holes so to say..i always had the thought of burying a series of soaker hoses under the track,we pull mostly on the same track bi-weekly.i really think this is doable,to water the whole track from underneath,turn the system on day or 2 before,never any dust and a very consistant track.i also think the track would need maintained between pulls with a transit of some kind to assure theres adequate dirt ontop of the system.i know nothing about a transit so if someone could explain how this would be done,id appiciate it.. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 191 |
I have seen the leveling type scrapers Cody described used and have been amazed by them. None of the effects you mentioned that normally happen with a trader box. They're awesome amd I'm going to try and get our local club to build or buy one. |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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awesome johnny
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hey THEIR you seem to no so much about building tracks why don't you just show up early this year and build our track and see how it turns out, your probably just a want a be puller but your really just a key board puller you seem to know who i am but your to ashamed to put your name on here. if I recall the sled operator had a lot of problems getting the sled set right last year also,hey THEIR you have obviously never worked with a limestone based grey clay it is a very touchy clay its very hard to find a happy medium it gets real slimmy real fast if you get to much water in and I don't know how to get water back out when you get to much in, mother nature has had to much in before and we cant get it back out but I bet you no how because I get the impression you think your an ace track builder, and also you have to know that when the sun goes down the moisture comes up,p.s. I had a lot of ostpa pullers tell me that night that was one of the better tracks that they had pulled on at millersburg one puller told me early in the evening he thought it was a touch dry after he won his class he came over and told me it was one of the better tracks he had pulled on that year ,so THEIR maybe it comes down to reading a track maybe that's where you failed thanks brad ps THEIR we have a track to build aug. 12 hope I get it right |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
You guys at Millersburg definitely have some unique dirt. I pulled there quite a few years ago with the S'no Farmer Xtreme, it was odd dirt but we got along with it just fine. The one night Ron Barga and I were setting our front ends up on a big pile of dirt at the end of the track,good times.☺ When I collected dirt for my dirt sculpture that I sold at the OSTPA scholarship auction I could always tell the Millersburg dirt as it was the only grey dirt in the whole thing.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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awesome johnny
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THANKS, Todd yes its very tough dirt to work with.but we are movivg to our new fair grounds this year and leaving the grey clay behind. jim miller was in last summer and looked at our new dirt and liked what he seen so hopefully things go well. maybe will see you at millersburg again some day always liked talking to you. where moving out of the smamp 7 tenth of a mile west of the old grounds on the high side of the road. should be a great place when finished. thanks again todd, Brad |
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Re: Track building a lost art?
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Registered: 07/22/2014 Posts: 197 |
I'm no expert at building tracks. But as a kid when I was pulling the one track I knew that could be relied upon every year as being good and hard, but not too hard, and standing up thru out the whole day was a once a year used thing where they just scraped off the grass then started watering and packing with a sheepsfoot. And that was usually done for 2 days at least. Most people agreed it was one of the best tracks every year. Given it was just a local farm pull thing but it went on for the better part of a whole day. Way more hours than a lot of pulls do today. Actually when I started pulling they were still using the"biggest people" they could find to step on to the sled. That was 30 to 35 years ago. Weight varied depending upon liquid consumed and who had to go to the restroom and replaced by another person of "similar" weight. OOOHHH the good ole days!
You can call it destiny, irony or what ever you want. But I'm pulling the same tractor today as I was back then as a kid. And doing ok. And nothing's changed. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2016 11:04AM by 3010JD. |
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