06:52:23pm, Thursday, April 25, 2024
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If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
If you had total control of the NTPA what changes would you make? And please don't say pay the pullers more money without having a plan on how to come up with the funds. Would you change rules, classes, etc? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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G
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That is not the presidents role in the ntpa the board of dierectors has the power when it comes to making rule changes and the president gets one vote the wpi handles the finances of the sport |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Posts: 1,160 |
You're right it's not, but Dick said, "If you had TOTAL CONTROL of the NTPA..." Which means if you had total control of the NTPA what changes would you make if you were the sole person in charge. It wasn't supposed to be literal in the way of how things actually work within the NTPA. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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G
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My bad misunderstanding |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
#1---Hire a Marketing Firm or Persons to full time secure sponsorships.
#2--Try to land a major sports network TV deal. #3---Reduce the GN classes to 6-- 2 night events for points chase. #4--Develop a plan to train State groups to seek Sponsorship as well as offer help at potential Sponsor meetings.(NTPA rep to go along on meetings bring visual aids, like toy sled and Puller vehicles, videos etc) #5--Unify any rules across all classes , only differences are GN level to State and RN level. #6--Develop a 5 year plan to be the front runner Org. in Top Quality run Events, and Purse payout. #7--Develop Training aids and classes for Promoters to help them raise Sponsorship money for their events. What I mean by developing plans requires one to put the right people in the right jobs, and let them do their job. Some of these listed would utilize the same person, or persons. The first two are the Key to the whole thing. Once the money is in place, the rest will fall in place. Before you all starting ripping, I said 6 2 night events in the points chases, other events can take place. The Galot idea and others plus, the Enderle if it can continue as such, but if you offer a good payout and a great venue, Pullers will come! There are many other smaller issues I'd address but these first two will solve 90% of the problems today! BB |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Just Sayin'
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I agree with much of what Bob posted here. First, and foremost, #1 point has to be addressed. And, to be honest, many say it's hard to find sponsorships - TRUE for an individual or individual team - TRUE but much easier if your a sanctioning body. I've personally talked to dozens of executives at many corporations who tell me that they CANNOT sponsor an individual as it shows "favoritism" ...meaning, "how can I sponsor your tractor and not Johnnie's demolition car" - OR "we get so many requests, we only contribute to x,y,z, non-profit organizations as we just can't keep everyone happy" (and how can anyone be upset with that, correct?) But as a League/Sanctioning Body - you are sponsoring the ENTIRE circuit, across many platforms, many states, many age groups, etc. Much easier than an individual. #1(a) - Stop chasing the golden egg sponsor - 10 - 10,000 sponsors are as good as 1 - 100k sponsor. #2 - I think goes hand in hand with #1. You get the $$$ flowing in, now you must draw the eyes and bodies to the show. Using the sponsorship money, you get TV time and promote the dickens out of your events. SN gets most $$ for promotions, then GN, then RN - but you must promote them all in order to grow. #3 through #7 - I like it. I can't disagree with any of those. Got to unify the rules - that's absolutely killing numbers. Here's my out of the box ideas. 1 - Does anyone remember in the "hayday" of pulling where some events were held? Go back to some of those 80's videos on YouTube! There's got to be some events held in newer venues and areas in general. There are countless amounts of people across the country who have never been to a tractor pull, or even heard of tractor pulling in general. Maybe this comes from seed money gained through sponsorships, I'm not sure. But the fan base needs to expand outside the current areas in order to grow. Be honest, if you live in the Midwest, you have the opportunity to go to a pull of some sort almost any given weekend (no in 2020 unfortunately). 2 - I think you need to add a local class to the RN and State level sanctioned pulls. You're going to get a bigger draw just to see the locals hit the track while being able to showcase your talent and equipment. Even if that means you run them as the last class, so be it. I know many people who only want to go see the local guys hook to the sled. This is speaking generally to promoters, but the NTPA could have an easier time booking events if they would encourage bringing locals into the show. An example of a pull would be (Lt Pro, PS, MOD, Local Pro Street Trucks). |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Posts: 1,160 |
I've heard from a very reliable source that they had the opportunity to get someone for what you're talking about in item #1, but the WPI decided not to. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Face in the crowd.
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What you heard was correct, but for one fact. David P. Schrier stopped that, said it would cost too much. That also came from a very reliable source. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Posts: 1,160 |
You would think the cost to hire that person would in turn pay for itself and then some, right? Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Or like many sales jobs... work on commission. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
If someone, a Professional brought in major Sponsors and opened doors just any person could not, what's the value of that individual? So small minds think cause he/she wants say $150,000 salary plus 5% of anything landed that's too expensive...but potentially walked away from multimillion dollar deals. I'm a believer in hiring Professionals and expecting/letting them do their job, don't hire your buddies niece or son that just got a marketing degree from local Jr College. Unfortunately the decision making process "Is what it Is"...
BB |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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safety
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Wouldn't want me in charge because I would table NTPA's involvement in santioned pulls for the season in concern for safety of all until hopefully 2021. It would suck but this is real and is not going away soon. But if I were in charge of all the nation there would be businesses open and running to save the economy with much of the available government money going to the older citizens and people with health issues to try and keep them safe. The rest be careful and get to work. We cant tank the whole economy and expect to pick up the pieces later and be ok. Wanting to go out and play with our toys or being able to go watch sports should be a luxury that we need to work at getting back. But first take care of the vulnerable Americans and the rest of us go to work.And,maybe most important, in November clean up the disaster called our government. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Confused
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Safety, you talk out both sides of your mouth! It is being proven that the larger majority of covid19 cases are from people who have been sheltering in place! The healthiest populations are ones going about business as usual. The powers to be should just admit that they have caused more damage with this virus than they have prevented due to all the panic and sanctions imposed upon the people and for no good reason. One thing you are right about is that we should get back to work as well as everything else. To address topic. I would not be cancelling any event beyond the end of May. If people want to attend, then attend, if not stay home. I would seek to run the NTPA as Stormy has mentioned above. Some very good practices and ideas in his post. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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safety
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My point is possibly 80 years and older people and people with serious health issues should stay home as they should during influenza season also. But for the good of the country the rest of us need to be allowed to get at it. I was just seeing what kind of reaction I could get on the no pulls thing. I'm ready to go pulling. But I would advise my 86 year old Dad to maybe stay home and i'll get a recording of it from Roger Wysong for him to enjoy. |
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Please stay on the topic!
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
This post is ABOUT what you would do if you had total control of the NTPA, not about about covid 19. There are a couple other threads about covid 19, this is NOT one of them. And thanks Bob thanks for staying on the topic. If you don't like the topic or find it boring then please don't post. And the reason that I am asking the question is there are several threads about what the NTPA is doing wrong, and I wanted to hear what YOU would do to change the direction of the NTPA. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2020 07:32AM by Dick Morgan. |
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If you were the President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I received this in a PM today and I am posting it with few changes.
5 national events 2-day hooks total with season ending at Enderle, and having the Enderle a 3 day SN event with Invitational as final session. 10 Regional National events for each region and create a stand alone regional national finals event for those classes Regional only classes LLSS any fuel 3.0 smooth bore turbo for all fuels 24.5 or 30.5 6250lb Hot Farm 18.4s 3000rpm 470 any fuel that was offered from factory 9500lb Pro Farm 20.8s No rpm limit any fuel that was offered from factory 8500lb Regional classes or classes with a limited number of national hooks Super Farm 24.5 unified rules any fuel as offered from factory 4.1 and Light Pro Combined at 9000lb 3.0 Smooth Bore Diesel trucks on DOT tires Modified FWD Trucks Light Unlimited Mod National classes LSS 6200lb Single charger 410ci alky or diesel unlimited charger and head HSS 7500lb three charger 540 alky or diesel unlimited charger and head PS keep 2020 rules Combine Pro Stock Diesel Trucks and SS Diesels into one class, single turbo any size TWD, Mod, Mini - Keep current rules Unlimited Mod any combination of engines you can safely stack at 7500lb - only limit weight wheelbase tire size and all safety measures. Let 650ci OSS run at 9000lb in class Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: If you were the President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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chuck knapp
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7500 pound umlimited? |
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Re: If you were the President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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DL
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Bring back bad memories? |
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Re: If you were the President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Fan 2
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Why have 2 Mod classes at same weight? The Unlimited class needs no changes, it is doing fine. If anything give them 100 lbs for the new Mitas tires! |
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Re: If you were the President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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PapaTorque
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If I were King of the NTPA I would do the following
1. Work with other organizations to develop a set of unifying rules 2. Develop a marketing plan to grow the sport, which could include merchandise on a broader scale. 3. Partner with other motorsports at certain events to draw crowds that may have previously not been aware of the sport and would become new fans. 4. Develop stronger fan relations to make the "average fan" more vested in the sport. Creating more dedicated fans instead of casual "watch the pulls if they are close" fans. This would take something to make the fans feel more connected to the sports. Think of activities or events that would get the fans more engaged and a feeling of connection to drivers/pulling teams. 5. Finally as the sport grows, purses and perks could be raised to the drivers/pulling teams to help offset some of the costs. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
First thing I’d do as king ding a ling of NTPA would be teching vehicles. It may piss off a few but in the end, you’ll be respected for running a tight ship. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2020 02:15AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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G
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They do tech vehicles |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
I’m talking about more than roll cage stickers & kill switches. Lol |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
I agree. Let’s pump engines, check fuel in ALL classes, measure turbos. Actually enforce the rules for once |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Competitor
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I thought they did check cubes and other stuff at the beginning of each season? |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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G
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I do agree on that |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Maybe wave a magic wand and take the sport back to the glory days to see what made them the glory days. I have my ideas on what made pulling so popular then. Running any organization is like getting a dozen farmers to agree on the price of a candle stick. Almost impossible. I know that because I'm a farmer. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Like any business the first thing I would look at is PR. How do the decisions that we make reflect our concern with the pullers and their problems? Do I view the puller as a subcontractor or a partner? I would look at the Puller magazine, do I make money or lose money with it. Same with RFD TV, does it cost me more or is there a payback there. And what I don't know is do I need RFD TV to help me secure and/or keep major sponsors. And another thing is do we make rules that will include more pullers or drive pullers away? And I am going to answer my own question; NO, rules are written in some haphazard way that never gives any thought to how many pullers will gain and how many pullers will drop out of the sport. Lets look at some of the changes I would make as King. No screw blowers in any class, no Mitas tires in any class but Unlimited mod. Turbo limits in DSS, even smaller turbo limits in PS than they have now. And as far as the Unlimited mod class I'm not sure if I would even have the class. I certainly would not have 3 mod classes. The Unlimited mod class is really no different that the PPL or the NTPA mod class other than the visual effect of a 5 motor vehicle. My approach, if I was King would be to drive the cost of the sport down for the pullers by lowering ever changing rules and upgrades. I would take a different approach to the HP game, the pllers would have to get more HP by tuning and refining and not by buying the newest parts. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2020 06:23AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Paull
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And Dick - you as king I hope you would look at the full pull mark as 320' and never over, sleds are more than capable. We don't need More and more ever yr. in every thing in America,pay attention to what you have and it becomes More. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Thanks, I agree that 320 is far enough. And I as I have stated before when the vehicles make more power they just add more weight to the sled, so whats the gain, other than spending more money for the same results, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's time to start thinking about bringing the cost down for every class. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Dick the pullers are there own enemy know blame to any of the organizations .We have all these classes because pullers price there self out of a class and start a new one with a new name and history keeps on repeating itself |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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State Level
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The "elite level" class thing hits on another sore subject for lots of pullers. I want to start by saying that I have the utmost respect for Chuck Knapp and his crew. Nothing of what I am about to say is directed towards him.
One of the most systemic issues with NTPA is the fact that at the corporate level as far as pullers and classes are concerned they only care about a select few GN classes and an even smaller group of pullers within those classes. 1. All they ever talk about or promote for the most part are the MOD classes, PS, OSS, DSS and minis. Very rarely are the classes like FWD, TWD and Superfarm mentioned. They are regarded as show filler. But look at the numbers. These classes pay the bills they bring in far more yearly memberships and entry fees than the "elite" classes. But they commonly get treated like the red-headed stepchild by the NTPA brass. If you don't believe me just sit in a drivers meeting at a GN pull where Larry stands up there snapping his suspenders and talking trash about superfarm or TWD. I understand that it costs far more to build an unlimited or a top running DSS than a SF or TWD. But some respect shown to these lower classes would go a long way. 2. Rule enforcement. There have been several persistent rule issues in several of the lower level classes that have been ongoing for years. For example the hitches in TWD or the water/fuel issue in the diesel classes. I understand the hitch issue they are finally trying to address this year. But if either of these issues were in the MOD class it would be addressed in days. Not years. This is a complete failure by NTPA tech services to not get this taken care of but they choose to look the other way on many issues. 3. State and even regional level competitors get absolutely nothing in return for what they put into the NTPA. Again there are hundred of state and regional level pullers that pay in all their membership dues every year. State and regional level pulls that pay in sanctioning fees and promotional fees. And get pretty much nothing in return. they run hard all year to win points in a regional points race and the points championship purse doesn't even cover the membership dues for the next year. They shouldn't need to wonder why certain regions are all but dead. State level pulls are dropping constantly. And competitors are going to competing organizations. This turned into a much longer rant than I wanted it to be. I guess all I'm saying is that NTPA needs to pay attention to the smaller guys a little bit more. Or pretty soon there will only be the "Elite" level classes pulling alone. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
In regards to the HP issue why don't organizations take away or limit tires? Make the highest HP classes true driver classes. Basically every SSD4x4 truck has enough HP to win any night on the vast majority of tracks. You may not be able to control costs for every puller but you don't have to have the most expensive and newest stuff every year to compete night in and night out.
We are so focused on limiting HP and reliability (Billet blocks...etc) and not on the ability to get the power to the track. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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chuck knapp
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I agree with alot of your comments Dick. Other than the unlimited idea. Not just because I have one but I think NTPA should let the unlimited class do their thing along with a few other classes and make them the elite classes that the promoter pays for if they want. Make a few classes special that don't run every place but rather at certain pulls that the promoter believes is worth the money for their particular group of spectators. Used to be back in the day a fan had to go to the super pulls to see certain classes. That I believe could help NTPA appeal to spectators Which classes should be put in there is debatable I obviously would choose the unlimiteds as one of them.(and by the way Screamin D is always for sale if someone is looking to join that class!!) |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Paull
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Good point Mr. Knapp. only one Super bowl, only one Indy 500, only one Kentucky Derby, so the elite of pulling should be given out sparingly as well.Several classes have the ability to "RAISE THE ROOF" so to speak, and some tracks help that happen more than others, people like a good long fast pull unexpected in any class, surprises are the best. Expecting every class to be a barn burner is silly and causes a lot of frustration, just watch any class, past champions struggle to be in the top five many times. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
The idea of Elite Level classes would be great in a perfect world. The down side is there is no feeder/farm system for them to jump in and test the waters without significant cost. The Open Super is a prime example of an Elite Level class. How has that worked? Not great, pulling need unified rules from State to Regional to National. If a National Elite circuit has it's own rules it will get very, very, very stale in just a few years. Look at the Light Unlimited class, screw blowers have' literally screwed up the class. If the rules were inline with State and Regional rules the class would probably have many more guys interested in jumping in. Elite level rules just don't work in this sport. Just my $.02 Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
Jake, I agree with you on the lack of a feeder/farm system, but, whose fault is that? Every time a new class gets started, it doesn't take long, and someone is wanting it on the GN level. Need examples, look at SF, Lt Pro, Ltd Pro, even LLSS has been mentioned. Yes, the GN level should be "elite". Not that it makes those pullers more deserving than others, but not everyone needs to be at the top level as a competitor. If they all were, who would fill the stands to watch? On another note, I would actually remove restrictions from those elite classes. Imagine Unlimited Mods running Nitro, and dual rear tires. Alky SS with 902 engines that haven't been decubed, also with duals. 1000 cui PS tractors with Dual 24.5's and 8" turbos. Granted, not every person, or even every team can afford to compete in that kind of environment. However, some teams would rise to the top, much like the NHRA's top fuel teams. Pulling efforts would become business ventures to these teams, with sponsors abound. These teams also would not compete every weekend. Every other weekend would be a better situation. Also, other than Super National events, not all GN classes would compete on the same weekend. Rather they would be split into two groups, and the two day show at other events would be filled with RN type classes to complete the show. Another rule change would be that a vehicle that competes at the GN/SN level would not be allowed to compete at the RN or even lower level. Further, a RN level vehicle would not be allowed to compete at the State level, and State level vehicles would not be welcome at "local" events. The rules for every class would be reworked to make it plausible to start with a local level vehicle, and over time, upgrade certain parts, and move to the next level. Later, other parts would get upgraded, for another move upwards. NTPA was founded on an idea to commonize the rules across the country. I feel that some of this has fallen by the wayside, and needs to come back for the sport to again flourish they way it did in the "good old days". |
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Chuck Knapp
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Chuck; I wrote this sometime ago and was going to start another thread, however after your comments I decided that this is a good time to post it. And I know I am going a little off topic however I believe that if I was the King of the NTPA I would explore this;
Is it time to have a circuit of just the top HP vehicles in pulling? Is it time to have the PS, Open/Unlimited/DSS and the Unlimited Mods run their own circuit? It would interesting to see the the top HP vehicles put together a group and offer the complete package to the highest bidder. They would then hook at pulls that are willing to pay a premium. I would love to 15 PS, 10 SS and 10 Unlimited Mods run at various shows. In my perfect world I would limit the number of shows to no more than 10 per year. The reasoning behind my thinking is that the vehicles would be able to hook and any nationally sanctioned event giving fans the opportunity to see vehicles that normally don’t run together. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2020 11:51AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Chuck Knapp
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Fan 2
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Pretty much the way it was before GN shows were watered down with a bunch of regional, state, and brush pull classes. Most of which you sit and endure for a couple hours until the Unlimited's run! |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
Chuck, is the cost and wear and tear of following the GN circuit starting to get old for the Kapp family ? You have run hard for several years. I could certainly see the need to step back as we get a little older. I ask because of your statement about Screaming D being for sale. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Posts: 1,160 |
For the right price, any vehicle is for sale. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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chuck knapp
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Gregory not really Love the sport yet. If we let SD go we would start with another one. Only as old as you feel! |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Fan 2
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If the Unlimited class and ppl mod class are the same why did Shelton's and Boyd's buy all those extra blowers to run a couple hooks last year?
Also, how about all the pullers that already have the Mitas tires and screw chargers? Just let them spend their money and outlaw them? You have any idea the time and money someone like Purser puts in that machine to make weight? And just outlaw him by "rule changes"? That happened in the Light Unlimited, how's a that turned out? |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Thank you for proving my point. Spending is on tires and screw blowers has not added one thing to the show. And as far as the mods they look the same to the fans and that's really what pulling is about, putting on a show for the fans. I would stop this crazy spending of money. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2020 11:39PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
You can't stop the spending of money... you can only limit the horsepower gains, and potentially back the power down. Those with money will always spend more. If you want to make pulling cheaper then you need to find ways to lower horsepower, or make rules that prioritize more common engine parts... either that or make classes with sealed crate motors and cookie cutter vehicles.
No Mitas tires? Why go after a specific manufacturer? Why not no Pro Puller Tires? Why not just ban Firestones instead? What if Mitas simply re-brands their tires under a different name... Cultor? What do you do then? Tires simply get the power to the ground, they don't make more power. Screw blowers are different, they are proven to give a significant power increase. They also are a type of blower, not a specific manufacturer. Banning a type/size/ratio is one thing, banning a manufacturer... that doesn't sit well with me. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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chuck knapp
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Limit the unlimited? You need to realize there are us that waste our money on that class because we want to and we want to win. You think the fans don't know the difference in the mod classes? You are mistaken they too want to see what the different teams come up with to win. Not just the unlimited class but all classes are out there doing what they do for the love of the sport and to WIN. Make them cookie cutter and a lot of fans and competitors will find other things to do with time and money. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Not to be argumentive, however there is no such thing as "unlimited". There are countless rules that govern your class just like everyone in pulling. Your class rules just allow more than the mod class or the PPL mod class. The name "unlimited" is not appropriate in any class in pulling, and certainly not in the ridiculously named Light Unlimited Mod class. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2020 06:59AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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chuck knapp
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I agree Dick. But unlimited is what the class is called so I have to use that term to refer to it. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Fan2
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What I said in NO way proved your point! If you think the spending has "not added one thing to the show", explain the difference in Boyd's tractor with 4-8's on it compared to how in runs with 4-screws, If you can't see the difference then maybe you need new glasses.
You didn't answer my question. What about all the pullers that already have invested the money in the blowers, tires,(carbon fiber, etc. to make weigh)t? Not to speak of all the R&D some of them have done with those blowers. Just tough apples for them? With your logic I suppose the fans can't see the difference between a sf and an Unlimited, after all they both go 300'. I surely hope no one with your view ever makes it to president on NTPA. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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LSS Fan
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I think the unlimited mod class is a bad example to you use for limiting expenses. They are $500k plus, I would think a new set of tires or new blowers is a drop in the bucket to what it cost. I would wager to say that Sheltons/Boyds type pullers would get bored if they weren't trying out some new blower or latest and greatest tires on the regular. The sport was invented as a competition, the competitive drive to keep making more power, putting it to the ground, and winning is probably what keeps some of these guys in the sport. Disclosure, that is purely my guess without knowing them |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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LITTLE OFF TOPIC
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So Dick stated this earlier. they add HP to the tractor they add more slugs to the sled 320 is really far enough. You spend money on screw blower and mitus tires what to 320 feet a bit faster than last year. you gain horsepower you gain higher sled settings. Go back to tractor PULLING not RACING!! |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Paull
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Never Enough sometimes - but with control and politics,maybe too much.Pulling is for sure the motive, not speed, go to an NHRA event for that,I have attended many pulls where the officials look the other way and now we have this mess yrs later with no limits and not many able to keep up with the elite.Many times the middle ground is bumpy and rough, but Happiness comes with less that a full plate. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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LSS Fan
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Well, there is a reason pulling uses a sled with weight transfer instead of just deadweight. Speed does matter. And I would say more speed is more entertaining to 99.9% of the pulling fans. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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xxx
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why were fans so excited yrs ago then when power and speed were less, we can't keep on increasing all the time in every thing, a common ground is very sustainable and good for all. Immediate gratification and instant BS is why we have so many issues in this country and the world,back up a little and smell the roses, not ruined fast crap.The focus in this country is on poor and wrong priorities. Period.I agree it is exciting to see a fast pull, but not all, when it becomes the norm, we all expect it and then where is the anticipation and thrill,------------------------------------ as mentioned above, only a few elite should make the 320 mark, in any class.If the end result is all we look for, we have missed the purpose,ever increasing demand ruins itself very quickly. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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LSS Fan
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I guess my response to that would be, at what point should the sport have stopped increasing power/speed? If everyone was excited with pulls in the 1970s, we should have never changed... |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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xxx
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some change is good, for sure, however, there can be no pure gains, EVERY THING IN LIFE that is positive has a Very real and opposite NEGATIVE, hooked directly to it, full circle Life process, many times the negative outweighs the plus side.If we keep increasing our expectations, we also have to accept the frustrations that accompany those expectations.I have hooked up to 3 times per place I pulled at up to 40 plus a yr for over 35 yrs, sometimes good, sometimes very wonderful, sometimes just a day with some adverse weather, track conditions and no so good of a showing, I go with a good attitude mostly, but never thought all my hooks would be the fastest, biggest distance pulled or the most flamboyant,but I did go and have fun and tried hard to accept the outcome for what it was sure I wrenched and improved and changed tires, parts, ect, but never figured I would always be the best, someone always has more time, talent and money, and each dog has it's day, never over spend and went beyond my means to pay bills and live.Too many nowadays feel entitled to spend, have to go and be way past their pocket book,Wanting more and more only ruins the whole reason. A 280 foot pull is just as wonderful as a 320, if the others only go 250,why have indoor winter short tracks if longer is better.A 112# college wresting match that is very well matched and ferocious is as much fun as a heavy weight bout, just different. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
Since we diverted into a discussion of limits here's a twist on the ideas: We are quickly coming up on a major limitation with regard to safety, and that is the effectiveness of a sled to do its' job with the Unlimiteds and Mods.
The knee-jerk reaction here is to add weight. Don't quote me on this but I seem to have read on these pages at some point that carrying additional weight would require permitting ($$$$) to haul enough weight on one sled and semi, driving the sled rental fees up and hassle on the sled operator running the roads. Without putting the ball directly in the court of the sled operator, there has to be some shared responsibility here it seems. You can't take weight away from the big mods, it just isn't feasible, that is another knee jerk and expensive reaction. Do you take some hitch height away? Change the chain height at the sled to diminish the draft of the sled? Unless we see a next-generation sled built that can stop a mod on ANY track at 310 feet or less without having to haul more weight the limits will have to come from the puller side of things also. That's not discounting the talents of the sled operators and builders, they are exceptional at what they do and have probably been pondering this question for 3 to 5 years already. That's just me spit-balling ideas that transcend sanctioning bodies, and your results will vary. I keep going back to that run at BG by Steve Boyd in the first session of the Unlimited class in 2019. It was amazing to see play out, especially that last 75-100 feet, in a class full of awesome runs over the years by many elite pullers. How do we back away from that without disappointing casual fans and ourselves? How do we continue with that in a safe manner where we can, even when the puller does everything right on a perfect track, that we safely bring them to a halt in 330 feet or less? Like many of you I am a student of the sport and the runs I remember are those that were either 1) fast and wheels up or 2) catastrophic breakage. I don't remember the 275ft passes; I remember the 310ft full pulls. The ones that are especially vivid come from 25-30 years ago. Incidentally, and correct me if I am wrong, didn't sleds in old days start harder (more draft)? Trying to go back to the "old style" sleds would be a serious mistake if that's the case...increasing traction from 0-150ft will make runs even faster than they already are. This off-topic diversion from Dick's original post/question offers an important intersection of where we are...as a sport, not just NTPA - but where we need to be for the longterm health of sport. This is like the grey rhino theory, where the grey rhino starts charging at you represents a major problem on the horizon but there is time enough to prepare. There is time, and now would seem to be a good time to address some things. I also know that a message board isn't the place where things should be decided but it's a good place to kick ideas around because EVERYONE sees them here, and I mean everyone. Thanks to Jake again continually for this place to discuss things. I am also appreciative to all of the pullers who sign their names to their opinions here, it adds significant weight to the discussion because we know exactly who is spending the money to play the game; I remain cautious in anything I say or suggest requiring checks to be written, because it isn't my money to spend. I simply appreciate the show that we see no matter whose track it's on. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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xxx
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Pretty much on topic with a "PRES." having the power to control things or at the very least try and make a viable continuing platform for the elite and the rest of us participants to play on. Safety is the biggest issue with folks lounging on the track(or very near) and laying down as seen on some videos when a tire comes rolling ahead at 30 plus mph. Units going near 30 mph in confines spaces, speed,power and weight makes a huge difference in stopping ability.A heavy sled at the start means more friction, and maybe more traction, however if the speed doesn't begin early it is harder to achieve,several well known pullers have stated that the outcome of the hook depends on the ability of the driver in the first 100 ft. maybe not all cases, but I agree,watch the four wheel drive trucks, and two wheel Mods, if the driver is too quick with a heavy foot the run is usually horrible,so make the Powerful machines to be driven accordingly.The pres. or King would be in a leadership position to help provide growth and insight, and by all means have many others near him or her to help do so to regulate said issues.We as a pulling community have been very Lucky to not have not a catastrophic accident decide the future of our beloved sport.some near misses and close calls for sure, but it will happen - even with some planned restrictions. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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#1- Marketing Firm or Persons to full time sponsorships
Not easy to find sponsors, lots of “no” – sanctioning body does represent numbers, but how many are the numbers? Chasing golden egg, like to know what’s that about. Yea, WALMART aint interested, same with Coke, GM and some others. Most require a National reach, pulling is rocky mountatins to the East Coast and middle west to upper south. How many pullers and fans are gonna haul down to San Antonio for a two night show? #2 land major sports network TV—RFD TV NTPA’s 15 plus year history with RFD TV is solid and has the ability to expand. We are Rural America’s Motorsport featured on Rural America’s most important network RFD TV is also essential to the sport, a designated time slot each week. It’s a network which can provide custom research for NTPA sponsorship efforts and the ability to grow into more programming which can provide a greater revenue source. Yes, CBS, NBC, ESPN, FOX are all “better” networks as far as reach, more costly to produce/buy time however, greater reach. The sponsorship fulfilment needs TV commercial and feature presentations. RFD TV allows great latitude in that area. #3 Class 6 two night events – locals into show? Tends to water down a Grand National presentation unless you copy rodeo and do em at the end of the session. Partner with other motorsports like monster trucks or mud bog or F1? #4 Promoters workshops are held every year and good information is exchanged. I’ve had a couple of promoters chat about upgrade events. NTPA has done a very good job of getting promoters material—Could add a promoters services department kinda like Tech Services Department. (It’s called marketing and would need about five people to do it right. (If you are going to attract TOP Talent to run association, then it’s gonna need a staff or no one would want the position. #5 unify classes—Why- NTPA develops rules and sets industry safety standards and people who don’t want to run that always want to unify the rules that they changed to make “their” classes or events better. #6 Front runner always thought of NTPA as front runner as the sanctioning body, PPL as a great TV events series, OSTPA, OUTLAWS, Rick Feicht, MI and NY and PA and southern States as good grassroots sportsmen (like NHRA classes) as good grass roots events. Not sure about “elite” classes, thought that was what GN competitors strove to reach. Truck Classes: FWD, TWO, Diesel, SEMI-Mini Rods-Mods-SMOKERS and Open Class should be Grand National Classes for every show, open entry to all that qualify….wait some promoters don’t want a show to run four hours, so….. TECH is a department in the NTPA. Nonsense of rule bending, etc. not worth the time to address. It is true we need more young people involved. Dick Morgan’s post about PR has some good points. NTPA pullers are members and that has to be key. They are a part of Their association. The Rules process has been crafted in such a way to get maximum input from the pullers. PULLER Magazine is essential to the demographic base and the sponsorship of the sport. Many sponsors want to “see that written on the box” (Tommy Boy) and NTPA can hand them a magazine that showcases pulling and the sponsorship advertisement. Magazine, TV and mobile/web applications are key. It takes money and build to continue to upgrade and build. Sanctioning bodies web presence is all about information for the sport and it’ |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Just Sayin’
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Doc,
Just be clear on my marketing point(s). Getting ANY sponsorship is not easy BUT it’s much easier for a group or “league” aka NTPA, than it is an individual/team. Wouldn’t you agree? Also, would it not benefit the NTPA to bring in at least a couple individuals or a group to see what’s possible regarding marketing? Making it their top priority? And my “golden egg” comment.... and this is easier done if you have a marketing dept...... why not encourage smaller advertisers/sponsors into the mix? If you were to shop a low or mid level package to businesses and construct it to the $$ amount. X $$$ = X events or X space in The Puller and so on. Flexibility makes it more appealing to businesses with small budgets, but it gets them invested. Some $$ is better than no $$, agreed? Is there a bar to set, absolutely. You must take care of your better sponsors, but you must open the door to anyone who can come in. This is where your marketing people do their thing. Do I know how difficult it is? You bet I do. I’ve talked to plenty of corporate leaders and even more small business owners. Looking for $$$ for sponsorship of pullers and events. It’s not easy and gets increasingly harder each year......this year will be the worst or 2021! BUT, it can be done because I’ve seen it happen. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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SMH
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The NTPA's YouTube presence is worse than sad...both in subscribers,views and the content. The are clowns shooting videos of beating up old trucks etc. with $40 Chinese go pro knockoffs pulling in millions of views and hundreds of thousands of subscribers . There are millions of gearheads out there, the NTPA is out of touch with the realities of the market and how to reach out to it. Post up real hard core tech, take advantage and highlight the mechanical diversity that is pulling today. Find yourself a personality that will appeal to beyond the AG audience and start posting videos, do vehicle walkthroughs,live q and a's etc. Work on cooperative marketing with the automotive and motorsports guys on YouTube who already have a ton of subs..invite them to a vip GN experience to get their shout out to your channel and watch your subs climb. Promote pulls,local,rn,gn at the end of the vids with links to the info. You gotta put in the work to grow it,and YouTube is basically giving you free access to millions of future fans if you know how to use it..and what the viewers want to see. Here's a hint..it ain't Richwine blubbering on about "big turbos" on some 60 second video. Content content content..and personality..real personality, not some over the top announcer type or some clown who couldn't change a plug on a leafblower. |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Just Sayin’
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I second everything that SMH just said!
It’s not rocket science. If anyone thinks, your phone is going to ring .... and a $250,000 sponsor is on the other end because you’re the “leader” of tractor pulling 
It’s not 1985 anymore. Marketing is more about digital and social media. I hate it as much as anyone, but it’s not going anywhere. It’s an easier sell to a customer to count views, likes, subscribers, etc. Those are real numbers. It takes time and effort...,.could be done by full time marketing staff, don’t you think? |
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Re: If you were President/Owner of the NTPA what would you do?
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Old Fan
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I guess instead of changing how you approach sponsors, it sounds like you all are giving up. I'm thinking that NTPA probably should fire whomever is in currently charge of marketing and look elsewhere for additional help.
If you think RFD-TV is going to be what carries the "TV" side, then you are living under a rock. NTPA should have a premier YouTube channel featuring footage from past and present. Then they need to get online with a streaming service, Amazon Fire, Roku, etc. Folks are canceling their cable/dish providers at a record pace. NTPA is no longer alone at the top when it comes to a "national" series. I challenge you to ask anyone at PRI in Indy next December which pulling series they first think of. With what I have heard, NTPA is stuck in their same old ways and aren't willing to conform to the modern day era. Relying on the membership monies to fund the entire deal will only accelerate the collapse of the once great pulling series. I keep hearing how all of this so-called change takes money. Well there's an easy solution to that. If you aren't willing to do things the right way and advance the sport, then please stop and close shop. The pullers, sled owners, and promoters are constantly working to upgrade and put on a better show. Meanwhile the WPI/NTPA office just keeps saying how hard they have it. If it's that damn hard, then quit your job and move on. Apparently the pay is too hard to give up though. Especially when you can force your hand on the puller, to take a 20% pay cut. There's no excuse for that. Ask Force, Kalitta, DSR if they would take a cut in pay and they would tell you to pound sand. What should've happened was to ask one of your current sponsors or even find a new one to step up and help. It would have been pretty easy to come up with a bigger, better package that would prove to them how their extra monies would get them additional exposure by helping to "save" the season. But nah, that's not logical. Let's just see if the pullers will indeed pull for even less. Better yet, lets keep the lower purse for 2021 and get the mileage out of this virus deal. This isn't a rant towards WPI. I am just simply looking at facts that have already been presented. If I were the Pres of NTPA, I would also give more support to the Morgans. I would make sure that Pulloff.com was part of my marketing package with ads and banners all over this board. |
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