01:30:46am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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This is an interesting decision by the NTPA. Does anyone it will encourage promoters? And does this reduction in $$$ matter time [www.ntpapull.com] |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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?
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Pullers pull for nothing anyways and now their wanting to cut the payback 20%, keep gouging the puller-- geez !!! |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 243 |
would you rather have pulling or no pulling? (if it is safe to do so) |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 02/21/2013 Posts: 9 |
I'm not committed to run the NTPA circuit, but if I were or if PPL were to do the same, I'd rather not go pulling this year to chase a points title.....I would probably cherry pick a few events just to keep my sanity, but I would not track across the geography of the circuit. Is it because of the purse and payout money? Yes and no...I understand their business decision and may have to do something similar with my own employees on a short term basis...this is just not the year for me to give for the entertainment of others while taking more of a hit from what we do on an annual basis from pulling.....this sport is expensive!!!!!! lol......I could wait another year and improve my equipment with the saved money .......another thing that concerns me will be the remaining number of events that don't cancel. If it is a small number (for me that would be around or less than 8), I don't want to compete for a championship with that few...I think it should be more difficult than that....I would not personally feel as if I deserved to be a champion and would think that should have an * beside that year in a program somewhere.....that's JMO. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Face in crowd
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Thank you for being candid on the topic and to me it makes a lot of sense to approach it that way as a puller. And in reality, that could be the way it plays out for everyone (like it or not). Just a few events scattered here and there where it makes sense financially and fans can social distance. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Leon
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Ntpa getting paid anyway nothing new here |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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I know most arguments will be about reduction in payout. If there is NO pull, there is NO payout. I’m not sure about some, but as for me, I’ll just be happy to be at the track to have the opportunity to participate - because at this point, we still don’t KNOW if that will even happen. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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bribe
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So NTPA is bribing their promoters and competitors to take a financial risk and possibly health risk to make sure NTPA gets an income of some sort this year? How about NTPA gives the membership money back to the competitor if the competitor chooses to not pull and welcomes their return next year. That will be a hardship on NTPA but no more than on every American is facing this year in their business or job. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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First, if you need the membership money back THAT bad...... your troubles are just starting.
Second, sanctioned bodies are going to take a huge hit this summer. So, if that membership $$ can soften the blow and help keep them around, why not? I just renewed my membership to The Puller for another year. Think about that. And third, why not allow promoters to print liability waivers on their tickets. You purchase a ticket, you waive the right to bring a lawsuit for the virus. It’s not that difficult! Let people choose! |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Prioritys
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I agree , the pullers need to step up. This is a hobby for the pullers, if they want to pull they need to start paying for everything and quit expecting the promoters and spectators to foot the bill. Figure out what it cost to put on a pull plus what ever profit the promoter wants to make, then divide that evenly among the pullers. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
While I don't understand all in workings of the NTPA, or any other pulling organization, I do understand that it's a business first and foremost. And like any business they are trying to survive during this covid 19 pandemic. It's interesting the role that pulling organizations have, they are a combination of a puller friendly and business interest entity all in one. They walk this fine line of keeping pullers, fans, promoters happy while still generating income to pay office staff, provide all of the hardware that makes a pull entertaining. I guess it's just like any business that's just trying to get through this situation looking for any possible way to try and keep everyone at least a little satisfied. We all realize that there will be countless business, small and large that will never recover from this. Lets just hope that the pulling organizations and promoters will survive. Remember that there is no road map for this, no how to! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Face in crowd
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In the next year or beyond, I think we all need to ask ourselves what businesses we do not want to see go away. If pullers want to see the NTPA remain a business, they probably should try to support it during these times just like any other business they would like to support. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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?
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What about my business, does everyone worry about mine going away, doubt it, i damn sure aint worried about NTPA after the way theyve had the nerve to not raise the payback to pullers-- so no, theyve took enough from the pullers --- anyone know how to start a gofundme --- not !!! I'll take care of myself amd suggest that NTPA do the same --- theres always PPL !!! |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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bribe
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Yea so NTPA ought to take care of the pullers because we are what makes their business happen. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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?
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My business comes first, ( other than God, then family), I'll take care of it, then if an only if i can I'll resume pulling, i doubt anyone that i do business with will try to make sure that my business carries on ( im sure they've got their own problems ), but I'll make it !!! |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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So with all this jaw jacking back and forth about pulling not being about the money... Is Bauer going to lower his sled rental prices? Didn't know if he was gonna take it in the pants too. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I don't see how that's any of your business, he may give a discount, maybe not, how is that your concern. That's between Vaughn Bauer and the individual promoters. That's his business and it's a private business, why do you think you have any right to know his finances? If you're a promotoer then you should negociate the best rate you can, if not get another sled.
As for the NTPA, they have willingly shared their plan to keep solvent in this trying time. It may be enough, and it may not be. Heck, we don't even know yet if there will be any season so we don't even know yet if this is anything to even waste time getting upset about. For the person who posted "NTPA is bribing their promoters and competitors to take a financial risk and possibly health risk..." First let me say, Huh? What? How are they bribing competitors? Who are they paying off? I'm really lost on your logic (or lack thereof). They are offering promoters some relief due to potential decreased attendance and loss of sponsorship, they are bribing anyone, or forcing anyone to hold and event. They are simply trying to help promoters who are allowed to move forward with an event. Pullers have the freedom to choose to go or not. Where's the bribe to the competitors? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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I guess where “some” have posted about bribes and prices/cuts.....where’s your ideas? I mean, it’s easy to sit and criticize but you’re not providing any alternatives. And least I’ll say they’re making some attempt NOW for those promotions that are having discussions about the POSSIBILITY of HAVING an event. Rather than waiting until they’ve all cancelled. Maybe it’s not perfect, but everyone involved is going to have make concessions for any pull to even be possible this season. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Where's my idea for what? Alternative for what? I honestly don't have the first clue what you're talking about. What am I supposed to be coming up with ideas for?
Reread my post, I never once criticized the NTPA, or any promoter. In fact my post is simply stating that the NTPA willingly shared part of their plan for them and their promoters to stay afloat... giving the NTPA Kudos for trying their best during this difficult time. Nowhere did I say it was a bad plan. The bribe comment was in reply to [www.pulloff.com] where the person who posted the comments that I quoted made no sense. I wassimply asking that person what the bribe to the puller is. You seem to be quick to argue with me and I haven't disagreed with anything you've posted. Reread my post. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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Wasn’t critical of your post in particular Jake - (probably should’ve been clearer on that). Directed to Mr. Cranium, Mr, ?, and Mr. Bribe. My thought is, we’re (you snd I) are probably thinking along the same lines. People are quick to criticize but don’t ever provide their ideas or alternatives.
For instance: I’ve stated at some time or another about the possibility of placing liability waiver wording on tickets-where event promoters, etc can be exempt from lawsuits because someone “could have” contracted the virus at their event. It’s a thought - not sure if holds water, but maybe that could help? 
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Thanks for clearing that up... sometimes the threading of the comments is confusing.
The liability waiver is a interesting idea. I was listening to Congressman Thomas Massie on the radio and he was suggesting similar protections for businesses so they could reopen but couldn't be sued if they had provided certain safety measures. I think the same protections could be broadly applied as long as promoters take certain safety precautions. (What those precautions are... I'm sure it will vary from state to state). Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Sign of the times- One of the two major political parties has a leader (who apparently loves chocolate ice cream), said leader has been very cold to the concept of liability protections in future legislation. The trial lawyers are among the largest contributors to the unnamed leader's side of the aisle. Liability protection is a great idea, but it's being actively opposed by a number of legislators. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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For those who have followed Major League Baseball over the years, I believe there was wording on the backs of those tickets, as well as, an announcement made over the sound system prior to the start of each game, detailing the danger of a foul ball hit into the stands. Basically, pay attention, a flying projectile could come into your space. But over the past few years, many stadiums have started extending netting along the foul lines to reduce that possibility. Not sure if that is to reduce insurance premiums or that that liability “waiver” doesn’t hold up to a lawsuit.
Probably the best example I can think of to relate to our situation. NTPA is trying to do something to salvage part of their season and at least get promoters to maybe think a little harder before cancelling, at least due to a cost issue. It will be interesting to see if there is any fallout as some outdoor activity (motorsports) begins very soonI think there’s a Lucas Oil Late Model race being promoted in MO, I believe in 2 weeks? Let’s see how it’s received by the media, etc. That could be a big indication on similar events going forward. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
At the heart of the NTPA decision is an extension of the ages old argument, which came first, the chicken or the egg proposition. It needs to be broken down into simplest terms.
Even at that first pull many years ago, someone had to organize it. That person or persons promoted it, invited fellow local farmers to join in and participate. Based on that fact, the promoter is truly the most important entity, and the puller is a close second the value that the promoter puts into the show will dictate the level of pullers that will participate in the event. The promoter, if they are looking to make money, needs fans and sponsors. While sanctioning is another important equation, it is not always necessary, pulling goes on all the time without it, the brush pull. However in the overall health of the sport sanctioning is important. It provides a stable set of performance and safety guidelines or rules, and that stability over time entices pullers to participate under a consistent rules, thus helping promoters draw more fans and sponsors to their events. Everything discussed here is important in modern pulling. However, if someone with desire and the money, decides to put on a pull then all they will need are the tools to put the show. With the right purse and a good pulling facility pullers and fans will show up. So this begs the question; before the covid 19 pandemic there was already at least one event in place that was a stand alone show, offering multiple classes, a large purse and yet they were going to follow a set of rules that mirrored national rules. Will this be the new model of the sport as we know it. Will national organizations survive the pandemic, or do we now, more than ever need the national organizations to keep the sport from becoming a free for-all mess? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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I would have to disagree to some extent. It's impossible to have a pull without pullers, but I agree even at the smallest ones there is usually someone in charge / making the decisions I.E. promoter. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
At one time many years ago the snow skiing business was hit with an unreasonable insurance situation. One of thoughts in the midwest ( read small ski areas) was to use a waiver system similar to what is being proposed here. After many meetings we were basically told that a waiver isn't worth much more than the paper it is written on when gone after by a good lawyer. We solved the issue in a different way but I would say tread carefully on this issue.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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I know Larry Kudlow, economist with the White House, mentioned Friday there’s discussions about putting something in place to protect against these lawsuits. It sounds like it’s to protect restaurant owners and businesses to cover against either customers or employees who contract the virus if those businesses are practicing the rules, regulations, and guidelines properly. I just wonder if that would carry over to events or entertainment.
I know at one point, OSHA said if an employee contracted COVID at work it was considered a recordable accident. So, seems like there’s a lot of loopholes and guessing amongst the powers that be. Which, isn’t good for anyone. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 02/21/2013 Posts: 9 |
That would help business owners prevent ambulance chasing lawsuits. The reality is, no one can prove in a court of law how someone contracted Covid-19. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Richard Warren
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I heard on Mark Levin today there are already over 1000 lawsuits filed over this. No way Pelosi lets that waiver go through. Maybe because the trial lawyers are the largest contributor to the DNC? I would be very careful going forward from here. One mistake (and lawsuit) and you're done. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Right time
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Is this when somebody will step in and buy the NTPA. Some people have already bought shares. Will some share owners be willing to well now. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Just Sayin’
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My thought ya that surely the NTPA has a legal firm working for them going over liabilities and the like. I know that cost to hold the event is on promoters minds, but I would bet the liability issue (and the health of everyone involved) is at the top of their list. It seems the consensus nationally, no matter what your hearing on television, is that people are getting cabin fever. Warmer weather, isolation for weeks and months, and just the rebellious attitude (if that’s what to call it) of human nature is going to force governors hands to open up. Now, if that trickles down to entertainment, which pulling is, I don’t know. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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How much of a pay cut are the WPI executives taking? |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Not real sure that the WPI "executives" draw any pay. I know the NTPA Board gets no direct pay. JW |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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OLD FAN--episode cost is about the same as an average working mans yearly salary in 1972.
End of season banquet is at best break even. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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A couple of thoughts:
Many second tier motorsports, Pulling, monster trucks, dirt tracks, karts, mud drags/bogs count on the local business community for support. It's very tough to ask those folks to contribute their couple hundred bucks to the local pull, when that business is suffering and may not have opened their doors. This is one of the reasons that NTPA and other promotional sanctioning bodies have tried to help promoters this year. Many on this site and others make the comment that if a promoter doesn't have the money for the purse they shouldn't stage the pull. That's correct. Many sanctioning bodies require that purse amount be secured in advance of the event. For many events it can take years to "bank" that kind of money and can probably guarantee that the Tomah's, Chapel Hills, and Bowling Greens of the world have that type of nest egg. The argued that NTPA should split that discount with the promoter and not rely on the puller to take the hit. NTPA is a membership association and most of the money taken in goes back to the puller in a number of different ways. So, taking it out of the NTPA pocket is kinda of diminishing the return to the puller. This is a tough situation and many promoters and groups will have a lot of soul searching in the very near future. On the matter of liability to the promoter and the waiver of attending the event. Not very practical at all and it's the matter of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that should come into play. Also, a Presidential Executive order waiving liability for packing houses kinda sides with the big business aspect of American life, not sure the promoter is going to be able to fall back on that. Everyone takes the hit this summer, from the fan to the promoter, from the puller to the event staff. Lets just hope we can get some hooks in, run for the points, celebrate great competition, have an end of season banquet and hit it FULL stride in 2021. Until then, stay safe. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Old Fan
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Or forget the end of season banquet. And save that money for the pullers... But that would make too much sense for WPI to understand. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Fitz
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Does anyone know how much it cost to have pulling on RFDtv? I'm sure they have to pay. |
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Re: Interesting decision by NTPA
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Old Fan
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Yes they pay. Last figure I'd heard, per episode was close to that of the average workingman's salary. |
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