PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 02:37AM
Was looking at the Pobar's Hydraulic steering kit. Has anyone used this kit? Looking for opinions...Good? Bad? Thought I seen someone had one for sale in a post.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 04:29AM
works good
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 05:32AM
Just finished installing one last night, easy to bleed, steers nice on a 7500 lb tractor. By far the way to go on a lighter machine, no steering shaft to deal with
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 06:45AM
what the system cost?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 06:50AM
I bought it used for 600$ off the for sale page a few months ago
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 08:17AM
Built my own system from new parts. Works great on 6700# tractor. Two years of use, no problems and never bled it since it was originally installed. Two years ago I had around $500.00 bucks invested in system. Don't know what same parts cost today?? DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 08:23AM
you dont have a parts list for it do you WTW?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 10:44AM
This has been discussed before on here, the old thread someone might have left some part numbers. Get on a marine website and look for a helm pump and cylinder. This is whats used to steer boats, make your own brackets and probly get by for half the money. If you want a quick bolt on kit call pobar. Its not as easy to steer as power steering but is 10 times better than rack n pinion
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 01:38PM
Does a helm pump require an external pump or does it generate it's own when turned and do you use single or dual action cylinder thanks this is a great help.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 23, 2015 05:23AM
A balanced hydraulic cylinder (rod out both ends) and a orbital motor used for the steering valve/pump that I matched its displacement to cylinder volume were both bought out of the same hydraulic surplus catalogue. Steering pump/valve/motor is smaller than a 12 OZ beer can. Steering cylinder and motor parts were both easy to mount to fabricated front axle and steering column. System uses standard hydraulic oil, requires no reservoir and works great. Trick is bleeding system which I developed a method that takes about 5-10 minutes. If you decide to build your own system, post back and I will see if I can find my tickets for part numbers. DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 24, 2015 03:24AM
We have seem many done with the old two port IH stock steering motor with a tee and capped leg pipe sticking up that can be open to bleed each side. And use a cylinder like in this link. We have used this for about 6 years on two tractors and I could not tell you the last time we had to bleed one. [www.surpluscenter.com]
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 11:11AM
We just installed one this week. Shipped quickly when we ordered. It was fairly easy to to hook up and bleed. Works very well. Only bad part was we had to fabricate bracket on cylinder to support it.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2015 01:28PM
What do they do to a forklift steering valve to make it work as a self contained unit
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 22, 2015 05:31AM
I know are other threads about the helm pump. I figured if I could find a kit like Pobars then I would have a matched pump and cylinder.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 24, 2015 12:09AM
WTW if you could find any old p/n's that would be great !
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 25, 2015 11:51AM
Hydraulic parts used for WTW manual hydraulic steering system were purchased from Surplus Center. Balanced hydraulic cylinder is 2X8X1.25 DA Double Rod. 2"bore, 8" stroke, 1.25 diameter rod out both ends. Item number 9-6845[. Steering motor used for hand pump is 1.93 cubic inch displacement per revolution and is a Char-Lynn129-0004 Item number 9-1157. The rest of system was 1/4" hydraulic hose, fittings and fabrication. NOTE: If more cylinder travel is needed DA Double Rod cykinder is available in a 10" stroke. Hope this helps. DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 25, 2015 01:13PM
Does that Char -Lynn pump work like a helm pump with its own reservoir or do you have a supply to it?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 02:01AM
System is a closed loop, trapped oil, manual system. No pressure/supply pump required/used. I have been told a helm system has small reservoir. This system has no reservoir or needs a reservoir because of the balanced cylinder. The return side of steering cylinder is the same volume/displacement as the pressure side and displaces the same amount of oil going out of cylinder as coming in. Oil returning from cylinder acts not only as a reservoir but also a charge circuit to the inlet side of hand pump/Char-Lynn motor. Some will tell you it will not work which is BS. As stated in earlier post, two years no problems, no bleeding since it was originally installed. Steers much easier than the rack and pinion it replaced. The key to making system work successfully is getting all air bled from the steering circuit. I developed a power bleed method to bleed system that took less than five minutes to bleed. DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? August 29, 2018 02:55AM
I have a Charlynn 4 port steering motor on a 504 IH. Please explain your power bleeding method, if you would. --thanks
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 12:44AM
What is the steering effort like on these systems while in the pits?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 02:12AM
Tractor steers easy in pits and setting still, Much easier compared to the rack in pinion system. With tractor setting still/shut off I can turn steering wheel standing on ground reaching up with one arm an it is easy to turn. Take note our tractor is a 6700# unit., DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 02:38AM
WTW. With the char- lynn pump you have used about how many times do you turn the wheel from going straight to full right or left? Some with the helm pump will turn several times. Also reading up on helm Pumps it looks like most have a 1000psi max on them.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 07:10AM
I would have to go home and count the actual steering wheel turns to be exact but, if my memory is right it was 6.5-7 turns lock to lock and front wheels turn shorter/tighter circle with hydraulic steering than they did with rack and pinion. The rack and pinion ratio was about the same amount of turns but, did not turn as sharp/tight. As noted in other post, mechanical make-up/geometrey also enters into this value. DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 11:12AM
WTW I appreciate all your help on this. I have a 7.3 cu inch char-Lynn steering valve off of a electric forklift. Would that be to large for this application or able to work?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 02:49AM
To answer your question correctly I would need to know the exact displacement of your steering cylinder you plan on using with this Char-Lynn valve/motor. If using the same cylinder as I used, you are 3.782 times to large/big of displacement on the Char-Lynn unit.(7.3 /1.93=3.782) This would cause tractor to steer very hard! But fast! Do not think you want either. Another factor I would be concerned about is the quality/integrity of the steering valve as far as it physical condition. If using a used part that is worn it may not be in good enough of condition internally to trap/seal/pump oil without causing steering wheel slippage. The better the quality (less internal leakage) of the motor/steering valve the better the steering will function without steering wheel coast/slipping. Hope you find this helpful, DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 03:13AM
Thankyou again WTW I see what you meen. I went with the cylinder in the following link

[www.surpluscenter.com]

I had the steering valve and just wondered if it could be used . I was hoping that bigger would make it so it I didn't have to revole the wheel so many times but you are right that this one maybe to big. Winking
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 20, 2016 02:03PM
Anyone have pics of how they attached the ram to the spindles?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2016 02:26AM
Hopefully this comes thru.


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2016 04:20AM
Thanks I found those ends for the ram on PSC website they are part # pc16 thanks.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 21, 2016 04:04AM
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 08:48AM
Andre, Is there a ball joint on the cylinder end of that tie rod? If not it will bend the tie rod or cylinder rod as soon as you try to turn
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 10:15AM
That what I was thinking too. It has to pivot somewhere
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 11:34AM
There isn't. I did make a mini tie rod but it would just bind up. This works and the joint on the arm takes the slack. Not perfect but so far so good.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 02:11PM
Here is a quick sketch of what will happen to those tie rods when you turn


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 02:49PM
Actual photo.


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 02:50PM
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 08:51PM
In the the top photo, you can see its bending already and its not even turned all the way



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 08:52PM by J&R Machine.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 09:26PM
That's as far as it turns. I think it's gonna be just fine like it has been.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 09, 2016 10:42PM
It all depends on the front end, arm length, and how tight anyone wants to turn. Mine turns sharp enough for what it does and once there's resistance in the wheel, I simply don't turn anymore.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 10, 2016 01:38AM
modern machine makes a very nice front end spindle set up.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 10, 2016 12:05PM
So if I use the setup that Oliver with cat 3208 posted pictures of, it should not bend the tie rods or the cylinder rods, correct?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 10, 2016 02:39PM
Correct it won't bend bc there is two pivot points on each end of the ram.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 10, 2016 11:59PM
Do you use the full stroke of the cylinder? I'm fine with one joint on mine since I don't need the tires to turn any sharper. When I made a mini tie rod a few years ago, I ended up using two ball joints and it would just twist. Looking back I should have used a clevis end on one side.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 11, 2016 04:30AM
Yeah we can use the full lenght of the ram but probably won't need it going down the track in super farm but might need it in the pits but atleast I have the full stroke available for to me to use.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 12, 2016 04:44AM
Did you use your stock steering arms? Of course the hole is tappered... I was thinking about making a bushing to go from 3/4" to 5/8". Or try a metric bolt. Looking what other people did. Thanks
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 12, 2016 09:13AM
We just drilled ares out to the correct bolt and it works just fine
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 12, 2016 01:52PM
Quote
Blue Goose
Did you use your stock steering arms? Of course the hole is tappered... I was thinking about making a bushing to go from 3/4" to 5/8". Or try a metric bolt. Looking what other people did. Thanks
PSC has different size bushings for the steering arms. No reason you can't use the factory arms, just make sure everything fits.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? March 10, 2016 04:25AM
Off topic a bit, i have a tractor with an FEL and no P/S could these Pobar systems handle a Light duty FEL application ? i cant imagine the weight at the front axel with bucket loaded being heavier than a #7000 puller coming down on its front axel. Does the Pobar kit self center back into position ? there is a kit available to retro fit my tractor but at $1300 + modifications required, i think i can adapt on of these Rock crawler kits to the tractor for 1/2 the cost.


2 poor 2 pull :-(
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW January 28, 2015 06:00AM
Would this setup work on a heavier tractor, like 9000lbs? Thanks for all your help.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW January 28, 2015 02:16PM
Glen, I see no reason why this system would not work on a 9000# tractor. As you well know, the tractor being heavier will add to steering effort no different than any manual system whether hydraulic or mechanical. The other factors are the mechanical make up front axle and its mechanical efficiency. This includes the steering arm length off spindle center, as well as how far center line of front wheel is from spindle center. The longer the arm the more leverage, and the closer the wheel to the spindle the more leverage advantage the arm has on wheel. These dimensions can make a big difference on steering effort. Another thing you can do to get maximum mechanical efficiency is use a thrust bearings to carry tractor weight on spindle and not just a thrust washer. Every little bit helps! DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW January 29, 2015 02:45PM
Thanks for the help. I been measuring things. My steering arms are stock, they are 7 1/2" center to center. Basically the spindle assemblies are stock, just shorten some. Then I welded the spindles to a piece of 4" box tubing. I'm mnot running the real wide tires, just 7.50L-16. Again thanks...
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW February 22, 2015 12:18PM
I put all of this together, and its turning but it's really slow? Anyone have any reason why? I used all of the parts like suggested from surplus center.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW February 22, 2015 01:28PM
Since you said slow.... I would say you need to keep bleeding it and bleeding and bleeding. When you think you got it... Bleed it some more. Now if it's hard to steer... Look at the bearing in your spindles.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW February 23, 2015 02:57AM
whats the best way to bleed? i did two pipes T'd off for a fill like in the photo on here. but i have been trying to bleed for hours. and a lot of time it just pushes oil out. i used 15w 40 motor oil, is that to thick?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW February 23, 2015 07:53AM
Bleeding system was my biggest concern making the system work. I spent allot of time testing/bleeding system on bench before I concluded I was going to use the trapped oil steering system on tractor. I had thought out how I was going to bleed system on tractor before I moved system from bench test to tractor because I knew it was going to be a bitch! With that said, I used tee fittings in place of elbows/strait fittings at steering cylinder ports where steering hoses connect to cylinder. On each open end of each tee I installed the smallest male quick coupler I could get from hydraulic supply shop. Make up a set of small diameter high pressure jumper hoses with mating female quick couplers to reach from steering cylinder to the rear outlet of a mule tractor with a functioning hydraulic outlet. Plug hoses into outlets, Turn flow to lowest setting, run oil from mule tractor to steering system on pulling tractor letting steering wheel motor for at least a dozen turns or more as it will not hurt it, carefully brake rotating steering wheel by hand to make front wheels turn to extreme right/left travel. Reverse hydraulic flow and repeat process in opposite direction. Shut mule tractor hydraulics off, disconnecting bleed hoses, and system is ready for use. Total bleeding process took less than five minutes. Using this method removes air/oil and replaced with filter non aerated oil. Hope you find it works as well for you as it did for me. Been there, done that, and it works great! Good luck, DW
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? To WTW February 23, 2015 12:03PM
That method will work if you are using hydraulic lines and a "706" or similar hand pump because they are made of cast or similar. A helm pump style will not take that kind of pressures. 3/8 plastic airline and a cast aluminum housing = broken if hooked to a tractor"mule"
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 09:42AM
Thank you for the parts info WTW.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 04:49AM
[www.surpluscenter.com]

Pretty sure this is the motor that WTW used..
The force that is used is hard to determine.. different weights, just changing the length of the steering arm on the top of the spindle will make a differance..

I don't remember the numbe of turns but it was a good ratio.. If you want easier to turn, go to a smaller motor, this will take more turns, but less force. Bigger motor, less turns but more force..

I am going to try a different motor, but I know hand full have used this one.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 05:46AM
Has anyone used a self contained system from Wayne's Repair in Nebraska?? $500 I believe and supposed to work well. Any idea whether they are better or worse than the PoBar set up??
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 07:25AM
whats waynes repair system like? do you have a phone number?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 10:56AM
Waynes repair Leigh, NE 402 487 2266
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 26, 2015 01:23PM
Wayne's setup


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 01:16AM
Andre... How do you like it? What tractor do you have?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 01:51PM
From the steering cylinder do you just go out with a piece of all thread to a ball joint? Or is there some kind of swivel in between the ball joint and cylinder to have some movement?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? January 27, 2015 02:26PM
Use a heim joint.
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Re: What about Wayne's hydraulic steering? January 28, 2015 03:03PM
Does anyone have any experience with the kit from Wayne's repair??
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? July 14, 2015 07:18AM
So a heim or ball joint on the cylinder rod and connect to the steering arm is good enough?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? February 24, 2015 03:21AM
How well do u think a 1.93 motor would work with the 2x10 cylinder
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 07, 2015 08:13AM
I'm going to use one of the "706" hand pumps. Has anyone tried making a shaft that fits the end of this hand pump? I want to put a longer steering shaft on it with a quick release. Hate to re-invent something that has already been done. Thanks!
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 08, 2015 05:13AM
Here...


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 28, 2015 04:02AM
We put a light front end on our 1256 but will still have all of the hydraulic equipment. Is there a way to utilize the stock steering system and lines? A two-way cylinder that would work with that set up?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 08, 2016 01:54PM
I need some help. I'm having a hard time from going to the threaded rods on both ends of my cylinder to my stock steering arms. I thought about using a heim joint with a bolt connecting it to the steering arm. looking for some imput...please!

Thank you!
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 01:01AM
Yes that will work fine, you just need to mount the cylinder on a sway link so you don't bend it.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 02:30AM
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 10, 2016 12:39PM
Not to be a smart -ss, but you could give Arlo a call @ Pobar 402-826-3941
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 02:35AM
Here is our setup. Notice the collars on the cylinder. Had an issue of the connecting arms over centering and locking the wheel.


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 05:41AM
What do you mean by sway link?
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 07:54AM
instead of the cylinder being mounted solid to the frame as in the previous 2 photos picture a clevis mount on both the frame and the cylinder located opposite each other with a solid link in between. It allows the cylinder to pivot with the steering arm movement and not bind. Works great!
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 09:39AM
Sorry to sound dumb but could you post a picture....please. Your way sounds much easier, but it sounds like I would bend my cylinder quicker this way than mounting it solid. THANK YOU!
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 11:02AM
Go to performance steering components (psc) and look up psc-sc16 for the adapters to the ram and psc-tr100 for the tie rod part that goes between the ram and the steering arm and just put a bolt to connect tie rod end to steering arm end. I attached pics of the products from there website it is what I used on my NEW super farm tractor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2016 02:40PM by Oliver with Cat 3208.


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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 11:23AM
I would be happy to if I could figure out how to put pictures on here off of my phone
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 12:11PM
U have to edit ur pics by down sizing the image by shrinking it and coping out what u don't need needs to be less than 250kb. Then just upload them. It's easy once u figure out how to shrink the pics.
Your welcome Blue Goose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 12:52PM by Oliver with Cat 3208.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 11:25AM
Thank you Oliver with Cat 3208.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 11:29AM
Quote
Oliver with Cat 3208
Go to performance steering components (psc) and look up psc-sc16 for the adapters to the ram and psc-tr100 for the tie rod part that goes between the ram and the steering arm and just put a bolt to connect tie rod end to steering arm end. I attached pics of the products from there website it is what I used on my super farm tractor.
Mount your cylinder solid and get the above kit. They come in different thread sizes so you should be able to find one to fit your cylinder. You cut the pipe sleeves to the length you need and weld the fittings on the ends. The clevis ends are threaded and the bolts screw in them. This is very nice stuff made for rock crawlers. They have the cylinders also and mounting kits. I have helped set up 5 of these kits and they are bulletproof and easy to install.
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Re: PoBar hydraulic steering? - Question!! March 09, 2016 07:59PM
Where do you get spindles from? Thanks
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