Parkes Puller tires March 02, 2015 02:26PM
I had some calls about the “Parkes Puller” tire and its future with Outlaws. I actually started getting calls last year from Outlaw competitors wanting to run this tire. NTPA, PPL and Outlaws approved this tire last year as it met all the tire rules that NTPA has had in the rule book for years. My answer has been it is legal in all Outlaw classes that allow the HP pulling tire. The biggest misconception is that it is over width, but in fact the 24.5 agricultural tires and the pulling tires made off the same mode are in fact only about 23 inches wide. The rule books state the maximum width for a 24.5 tire is 25 inches. Same deal with 30.5 tires. Most people when they are measuring they use a tape measure and follow the contour of the tire which makes it measure wider than it actually is. Regardless the tires are legal per rules of all three major pulling associations per width and diameter regulations. Norm Kavan called me before the Western Farm Show in Kansas City and wanted to know if he could try a set of Parkes Pullers in his class. He said if it was going to cause any trouble he would not put them on. I told him to bring them and try them out and I also appreciated the fact that he called first. When it comes to Magnum Force that is a tuff tractor no matter what tires are on it. It has won Tomah and Louisville and finished 2nd twice on Saturday night. That tractor has won the Western Farm Show 3 times now. So by winning by 2.6 feet does not mean this tire has an advantage over the rest of the tires in competition. The sled was just a tick light and if not for starting the class over Chad Weitzenkamp on Someday could have been the winner with the first hook. Last year the 2014 OTTPA Unlimited Super Stock Champion was Red Ink with both Glen and his son Louis doing the driving. That tractor won 6 times, 3-2nds and 6-3rd place finishes for 15 top 3 finishes out of 19 hooks. It was the only tractor in the class with old style pullers instead of HP tires except for one other and that was Get R Done 21 that won the last hook of the year. So who knows which tire is better. In the Limited Pro Stock class the rule was changed to HP tires 3 years ago and now way over half are running them. Some tractors that are not running HP tires won. Tony Wortmann and the Tapped Out tractor only hooked 11 times with Outlaws and won 3 times and had a runnerup finish while Wampuscat won the Wisner hook on TV and both run old style pullers. So again which tire is better.
Now back to Outlaws and the “Parkes Puller” tire. When Outlaws started the Limited Pro Stock Tractor class (4.1) it was all about keeping the cost down and breakage by not making the same mistakes the Pro Stock Tractors did. So limits on turbo, heads, pumps, tires, etc where put in place for that reason. With OTTPA's grueling schedule liveability, mutible winners, and keeping cost down make for a healthy class and it has worked. Over the 7 years since the class started we have made two changes in turbo, changed to HP tires, recast heads, etc. Most of the changes have been mainly for livability and some performance. Once you allowed HP tires in you pretty much threw the cost factor out the window. Parks Pullers are about same price and no one knows if they will be better than old style pullers or HP tires. The only thing that concerns me if they are better and have an advantage is that not everyone can get them in 2015. So I hope some run them this year in the different classes and see if there is or is not an advantage and then next fall it will be up to the individual classes to decide if they are going to allow them. Thanks, Doug
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 02, 2015 04:57PM
Doug,
Can you explain why in the 4.1 class why certain tractors can't pull in it such as the bbjd and the case...etc ...
Thanks Tim
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 02, 2015 11:43PM
When we made the rules for this class it was all about not making the same mistakes the Pro Stock Tractor class had made. Mainly rules for cost, breakage and fair competition that would lead to a healthier class and keep good numbers in the class for our promoters and fans. We knew the big bore center tractors like the big block John Deere and Case could be a problem with fair competition and was hoping putting a 4.750 bore size would solve the problem with a turbo limit. The first year we had no big bore center tractors pull with us and did not learn anything. The next year we did have a big block John Deere hook with us and saw it was a fair competition problem. We have 4 other OTTPA classes that these big bore tractors can pull in but not this LPS class. Will the competitors in that class change it to allow them some day I do not know as I try to stay out of the rule making process? One of the biggest misconceptions is people are confused between bore center and bore size limits. Attached are some letters when this class was started and the bore center issue and why the rules was implemented at the time. Hope this explains it for you. Thanks, Doug
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Attachments:
open | download - OTTPA 2008 LIMITED PRO STOCK TRACTOR.docx (13.7 KB)
open | download - New LPS class turbo.docx (12.4 KB)
open | download - LPS Big Bore Letter.doc (36 KB)
open | download - LPS Bore Centers.xls (48.5 KB)

Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 12:16AM
Did the 210 circumference rule get deleted when the Parks Pullers were allowed in ?
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 03:33PM
Great, now we get to measure tires in tech line at Tomah,,,,,,,
My legs hurt already,,,,,,,,
Snivel, whine, grovel,,,,,,,,,
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 05, 2015 01:49AM
i think 20.8s have something to do with circumfrance
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 12:28AM
The big misconception on the size of the parkes tire is everyone is so used to seeing HP's that were never made to the correct limits. When you have tires for 8 years that are 22.5-23 wide and 200-206 inches around maybe 207 after post inflated and narrow wheel parkes tire will look huge. Parkes tire is 210" and 3-4 inches bigger than a tall HP will look huge. Bob has built his tire to the max allowed by the rule.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 01:19AM
We measured a set of 30.5s and they came out to right at 33 inches (this was a conservative measurement to the outside of the tread with a flat edge). The questions I have are: where and how do the rules state the tires should be measured? Mounted, not mounted, with how much air, side wall of tire, end of tread on tire? These varriations will cause a difference.

Secondly, there is no way that they meet the 210 circumfrence rule.

However, I personally do not like the cut of the tire. I would rather have a set of HPs, so it does not matter to me.

Would like to know the wight and price though.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 01:29AM
our 24.5's are 2007's measure 209"@5psi, theres no way the tires on geared green or tool time prostock are under 210". maybe 220"Eye Popping
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 02:03AM
Quote
Rule ?
our 24.5's are 2007's measure 209"@5psi, theres no way the tires on geared green or tool time prostock are under 210". maybe 220"Eye Popping

I would assume that "visual measurement" is open to to discussion?
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 02:16AM
Gonzo, both said tractors had to raise their fenders quite a bit to install the 210 parks...................Grinning
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 04:52AM
.................well guys, how 'bout y'all quit crying about hearsay and have them measured? This is why it is difficult to make new/revised products for the pulling world. People whine about it until they get/can afford it, then it's great.

....next thing you'll be barking about the Mitas tires when they arrive......

....it's called evolution people, happens in every other sport.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 05:20AM
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........................................................ Here, you forgot some dots.

And this is a tractor pulling forum, where things associated with tractor pulling are discussed. Discussing the size/rules of new tractor pulling tires seems like a legitimate conversation and not a bunch of whining. Evolution is great, as long as it is within the rules. Go pound sand ...............................................................................................
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 06:47AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 09:12AM
So if I am reading this right......A super farm/prostock can put on a "30.5" tire and cut it so that it only is 24.5' wide" and is less than 210"? and then be legal?
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 10:22AM
HSS, I think there is something wrong with your keyboard. I think you have a key stuck or something. Please get that looked at, it's terribly annoying.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 05:25AM
Explain how to have them measured? You think the seller or owner is just going to give you that info? Could I walk over to your tractor, jack it up and start measuring tires?

I could care less what the hearsay is, but find it interesting you think this info is just out there for the taking.


Every vehicle owner is responsible to know the rules that govern their vehicle for competition. If the rule states 210" this isn't about new product, it's about knowing whether or not your vehicle is legal to compete.

I know what the circumference of my tires is at operating pressure and it's not above 210". Tech has never even asked or measured ever, so this could easily be an area to push the limits. Who is ever going to police it?


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 05:35AM by AV.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 05:49AM
There are many sets of 24.5 firstones that are over 210 now. They weren't out of the mold but you find a good talk set to start with then u cook them and post inflate them and you'll get over 210 pretty easy.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 05:55AM
Quote
Pro Stocker
There are many sets of 24.5 firstones that are over 210 now. They weren't out of the mold but you find a good talk set to start with then u cook them and post inflate them and you'll get over 210 pretty easy.

Is there an advantage to enlarging the circumference,.........Eye Rolling
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 07:18AM
Everyone can buy a set they aren't a brand specific product. If you think there is an advantage go buy a set.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 09:01AM
Quote
solution
Everyone can buy a set they aren't a brand specific product. If you think there is an advantage go buy a set.

Oh, ..well darn I wasn't aware there were multiple sets available to the general public. I will Google www.parkspullers.com and get me a set. Eye Popping
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 05:56AM
Oh ya I am sure there are some 30.5's out there as well over 210.

But I am not gonna loose any sleep over it. Be interested to see how this plays out if some of those Parkes are pushing the limit a little far for the competition's liking.


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 07:39AM
So, if the tire is at the max circumferance (or possibly above as the opions are today), how is that any different than truning a faster gear (which is perfectly legal)?

Also, there are rules written for circumferance, so why wouldn't tech be able to check that if someone is questioning it? The statement of people should know the rules and abide by them is fairly naive or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 07:50AM
The circumference being greater will increase the contact area of the tire to the dirt obviously increasing traction whereas a taller gear offers the same amount of traction with possibly higher wheel speed , I would imagine most are turning the tallest gear they can so there maybe nothing to be gained with more gear .
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 08:06AM
Why complain then? If guys are turning the fastest gear they can then more traction with a bigger tire will not help my opinion is it would be a wash
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 09:06AM
Quote
y complain then?
Why complain then? If guys are turning the fastest gear they can then more traction with a bigger tire will not help my opinion is it would be a wash

Turn the higher gear and add the 210+ circumference tire= an greater advantage?Confused
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 09:41AM
Just because a tire is spinning faster doesn't mean it's getting more bite , there is only so much good dirt under the tires at any given time, with slightly more contact area you are getting a hold of more packed dirt rather than churning up the loose dirt underneath but this is only my opinion and everyone has their own theory.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 10:05AM
It something you will never be able to prove if it was the deciding factor in added distance because you can never repeat the action without outside variables interfering with the results.

But with how the sleds start these days and speed is key, getting locked in early is a must. I would take all the footprint I can get and slow my tire speed down so it locks in and get the best hole shot. Diesels are tougher to walk out than an alky, so keep the gear you need for the other end but in theory the bigger footprint can help you get going faster out of the hole. Just adding gear isn't the solution always, because spinning them faster out the hole doesn't necessarily mean getting hooked up.


This is my take on bigger tires, but in no way accusing anyone of running or producing 210+ tires. This theory could be applied to a 204 set vs a 209 set. Or why HPs are more desired than old 10 and 8 plys.


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 10:07AM by AV.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 10:17AM
Thanks, guys, this is finally making sense. I could see the width adding footprint, I hadn't actually factored the circumference in as adding to that. I was just thinking taller so is like a gear more. Thanks for not jumping on my comments and making a complete circus out of it.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 11:03AM
i dont have a dog in this fight i am not a puller just a long time fan of pulling but this thread is centered around tires but even if the tires are in question isnt the most important part of making that perfect pass include reading the track and positioning the sled where you want and having the perfect weight distribution to get the hp to the track
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 03, 2015 11:30AM
Quote
chris
i dont have a dog in this fight i am not a puller just a long time fan of pulling but this thread is centered around tires but even if the tires are in question isnt the most important part of making that perfect pass include reading the track and positioning the sled where you want and having the perfect weight distribution to get the hp to the track

Not arguing your statement chris, ...but if you do all that you described and a competitor does too,..... WITH a larger footprint tire who's the winner?
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 04, 2015 01:43PM
The 210" rule was put in to control the amount of centrifugal force that the roll cage would experience if a tire was to come apart. Per discussion with the NTPA tech officials, this was why the 210" circumference rule was put in. This was to be monitored by the manufacturer.
Probably good to get another tire in there that can go down the track. The current supplier probably has better things to worry about than spend time on 300 tires per year when they can be making 480/80R50's or 800/70R38's by the thousands.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires March 04, 2015 02:22PM
Those 20.8 guys better not turn them @ mach speed,.........cages will be ripped to shredds. :-)
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Re: Parkes Puller tires August 22, 2015 02:34AM
Put into place as a safety rule my foot!! Everybody with half of a brain knows or should be able to understand that a taller tire will give a larger foot print, thus better traction. This isn't brain surgery here folks. If tech was truly concerned about the tires coming apart there would be better fender rule in place.
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Re: Parkes Puller tires August 22, 2015 06:06AM

Hi,
Just want to throw in my $ .02 Winking
I think the first post, by DR, hits the nail on the head.
It's the width that makes more difference than the circumference.
If your normal 24.5 is 23 inches wide and someone makes a tire that is 25 inches wide (per the rules), your tractor is grabbing 4" more of the track than the other guy.
When you measure the difference in circumference, on a tire this big, the percentages are quite small.
A tire with a 210" circumference stands 66.85" tall, a tire that is 207" around stands 65.89" tall, and a tire that is 204" is 64.94".
It would take a pretty good eye to be able to guess the circumference by just looking at different tires while walking through the pits... Cool
Larger circumference does grab more ground, but the differences here are so small that I doubt it would make much difference to the vast majority of pullers.
Example: I have not done any measuring to find out exactly how much of the tire is "in the dirt" during a pull, but for this exercise let's use 25%.
So, At 25% "in the dirt", a 210" tire has 52.5" of tread pulling the sled. A 207" tire is 51.75" and a 204" is 51".
This is why the width difference is more important.
You could go from a 204" to a 210" (both at 23" wide) and gain 34.5 square inches of ground contact.
Or you can keep your 204" tires and make them 25" wide and gain 102" of contact.
Of course the ideal would be to go to the 210" x 25" and gain 139.5" of contact over the 204" x 23".
But this shows that 2" of width will give you much more than 2" of circumference.Beer

Later .......
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