Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? September 12, 2015 04:29AM
I have been following the billet block thread and just wondered why hasn't pulling gone like drag racing, circle track, and powerboat. In the top level classes we don't even have actual tractors anymore, the machines are pretty much fabricated out of various parts. Why have the top level classes not just gone to a cubic inch limit and anything else goes. The mods have been using custom engines for years, will the tractors in Superstock and Prostock go that way too in the future? Personally I see no reason for them not to. I know I would rather see guys build engines from the ground up and live than to see them fight breakage running on kill week after week. The engines in these classes are already virtually made from scratch so why not just let the whole thing be made from scratch like the rest of the tractor and let people design and build anything they want within the cubic inch limits. I would enjoy seeing the creativity of what people came up with. I mean it is already any brand of engine under any sheetmetal so why not just go ahead and let that go to any engine under any sheetmetal. At this point I suspect the engine restrictions are adding more to the cost of the class than being unrestricted.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? September 15, 2015 05:31AM
I completely agree with you. However I think that if they would make it an unrestricted motor under any sheetmetal that they would get more color into classes. Personally I'm an allis and agco guy and there's only a hand full of those out there that are competitive. I would like to build one that would be able to stay competitive and be able to be a top contender every weekend. The thing is though is that the guys would be willing to change from this wouldn't want to add color they would just want to keep changing sheetmetal and bigger and bigger sheetmetal. The allis chalmers and the agcos have always got the short end of the stick. We have to use replacement blocks instead of the stock 426 motors. I would love to see a stock 426 be able to compete in the 4.1 Limited Pro class. Right now here where I live the best class for the allis is the 8500 466 Light Limited Pro Stock. There are only a hand full of organizations in my area that even have that class. But I agree with you pretty soon there will hardly be anything left in tractor pulling that will actually resemble a tractor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2015 05:32AM by puller21.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 15, 2015 12:28PM
I Have been pulling for 15 years on a hot/altered farm/enhanced circuit. I have a red tractor. As a puller... i'm proud of it as everyone else i hope is proud of there own.
When i first started pulling there were a sea of red tractors. You may have seen 2-3 green and maybe 1 Allis. The few that were green were tuff if they held together.
The Allis only made certain pulls and we all wished he would show. The red were always in the mix. the 400 series engine was so popular everyone had p pump
3x3 and 466. The deeres had bigblocks, 6-700-800s and were good...but could still be beat. The problem that we faced in our club was that the bbdeeres started to grow and we as pullers with the red stayed the same. By the mid to late 2000;s the allis was out, The allis started to pull lighter .... the classes are 8500,9500,11000,12,500.
Eventually he was gone. The Red started to lighten up to be in the 85-95 to stay out of the big block deeres class. Now the red started to fays out.
To date there are more green than red. No allis chalmers. there use to be 15 a weekend. I would say about 8, 5 bbjd and 2-3 red.
There is now dought in my mind that you can make a 500 cube tractor run with a bbjd with everyone running a 3x3. It will cost you big$ to do it. But it can be done .
I can hosnestly say this, i went out a couple times this year twice. Not to be first, becouse i new i couldn't, but to have fun. In my heart i wanted to be first...but new i was
a lucky 6 place back tractor. I went out for the local fans and the people i grew up with tractor pulling. I can honestly say i went home....and at heart...wanted to build the biggist and the badest to win. It's just the puller in all of us. I can cry and wine about the bbjd or cry about the rules.. but at the end of the day... i didn't spend the mony to be competitive.
Looking Back over the years, we....as a club...and i was also a voting member.. let certain rules and freindships dictate the class. We aloud a no cubic in limit, a 3x4 charger
intercoolers tube frames , water slugged turbo's. basically run what you brung hope you brung enough no tech at all tractors.
Does it put on a show for the crowd.......... you bet.
Did it sacrafice loosing alot of pullers....you bet.
This will probably be my last year, unfortunatly i'll always be at the pulls. But i only have myself to blame. I voted to Price my self out of the sport and didn't relize i was doing it. It's sad but true..

thanks,
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 16, 2015 02:09AM
You make a good point too. But again the guys that are pulling orange don't have a big enough motor half the time to be able to compete and stay competitive. I would like to build a 426 but bore it out to 466 but then there is only one class that I can pull in that is close to me. I mean its a good class but I'm not sure that I would be able to spin enough RPMs to be able to stay competitive now yeah I might be able to get lucky once in awhile but I wouldn't be able to beat the red and green ones. Now I do understand that allis can use the DT466 and the Detroit Series 40 but that's not the stock 426 that I want to build. But I do like the Series 40 because it will hold up better but in the 8500 Limited Pro I need RPMs not a stronger motor. But I would like to see someone that could figure out how to make a 426 competitive in any class. Now if I was allowed to run alcohol in that class then yeah I would need a stronger motor but I have to run diesel so I just need a competitive 426.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 16, 2015 05:58AM
At 466 you can make an allis competitive in the class! What kills an allis more than anything is big cubes. Put a Himes head on it and it will do just as well as a deer or ih however it may take much more money but can be done.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 16, 2015 08:51AM
I agree at 466 an allis can be competitive but the problem is is trying to build enough rpms and trying to find a good recast head that the air will flow trough to get enough rpms.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 17, 2015 07:18AM
As I said if you run a Himes recast head it will allow the flow needed to build the rpms you are looking for!
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 17, 2015 08:48AM
But is the Himes head similar to the stock head? I have heard that a guy in Indiana is doing some recasts but I don't know how good they are
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 17, 2015 08:56AM
Yes it looks exact same as a stock head only 5/8 taller. Has ac cast numbers and all.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers September 17, 2015 09:16AM
I was actually envisioning total from scratch engines, nothing as restrictive as the silly things like must swing a stock crank or bolt on factory manifolds. For the top level classes I would think it would be just as well to limit the cubes and allow anything else. If you want to build a 6 bolt main block go ahead, want a 8 in stroke crank with a 1" bore 18cyl motor, why not? I don't see any point in restricting to a factory spec block as none of the other parts are so why bother? I look for it to become an any sheetmetal and any engine you want to build eventually in the top tier classes, I would enjoy seeing the innovation.
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Re: BBJD/ RED TRACTORS/ALLIS- Please read pullers October 08, 2015 06:24AM
Virtually every other motor sport has moved toward more modern technology and reduced cubic inches, New technology or not, reducing cubic inches would be a good thing for the sport. Unfortunately, too many folks in pulling think bigger is better. I'd love to see cubic inch reductions in all classes, from SS down to all the 3 inch turbo divisions. It could be done over time to help ease the transition.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? October 08, 2015 05:51AM
Yeah in some areas 1500 horses may sound like nothing but in some classes thats quite impressive. I mean I don't know exactly how many horses the 8500 Limited Pro Stock guys are running but I have a feeling that it is up closer around the 3000 or 3500 range. Now again like I said I don't know exactly how many they are running but thats my closest guess.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? September 16, 2015 05:45AM
Eventually it will be all spec motors because it will be hard to find a good useable block. Most of these blocks are 30-40 years old or older. Same with the trans housings. Eventually Lim pro and Super Farm would go to component and billet block. It is hard to get durability out of cast iron especially putting 1500 hp though it and that number is only going to up. Component with billet block costs more to start out with but can last much longer then stock ag housings and blocks. If tractor pulling is going to continue to evolve and improve the rules are going to have change for the future.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? September 17, 2015 12:30PM
llss class must be the hottest class in your area talking that 1500 horses stuff add 3 more turbos and 235 cubic inches then refigure those numbers
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? October 08, 2015 07:57AM
Get rid of the any block any sheet metal rule! Even OEM racing classes require a brand specific part number assigned to billet blocks. In other words, even their billet engines must be for a specific brand (i.e. a billet Ford racing engine can not be used in a Chevy). An OEM based billet block would be better than a BBJD in an AC. And if the cube limits were less, there would not be a need for billet blocks.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? October 11, 2015 08:59AM
big cubes has killed pulling on all levels it up the cost of building and lessens the durability.
I want to pre say shut the hell up to the person who will come here and say a remark like "can run with the big dogs stay home"
that is what also hurts this too singling out people beacuse they dont have deep pockets.
If cubes would have never gotten out of hand there would be way more people pulling.
Or is that what what is wanted? competition?
Ignorance thinking you NEED big cubic inch what the hell 2 tractors came factory with over 540 cid
You people who think the sport would die if the limits were lowered are ignorant.
things got out of hand and left the people who started the sport out
no matter what it will take dollars to do and the people who have it to spend will
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? October 11, 2015 10:01AM
BLAH --BLAH BLAH,always a spoilsport in every isle.LOL People are not equal,tractors are not equal and money does not always win,but it sure makes it easy !!!! Blah --Blah Blah !!!
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? April 30, 2016 04:46PM
Quote
angry
big cubes has killed pulling on all levels it up the cost of building and lessens the durability.
I want to pre say shut the hell up to the person who will come here and say a remark like "can run with the big dogs stay home"
that is what also hurts this too singling out people beacuse they dont have deep pockets.
If cubes would have never gotten out of hand there would be way more people pulling.
Or is that what what is wanted? competition?
Ignorance thinking you NEED big cubic inch what the hell 2 tractors came factory with over 540 cid
You people who think the sport would die if the limits were lowered are ignorant.
things got out of hand and left the people who started the sport out
no matter what it will take dollars to do and the people who have it to spend will

Just looking through some old posts tonight and yours said a mouthful. I'll agree with it.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? May 03, 2016 12:20PM
Well as its very obvious the the big money killed the wanna be big time pullers; these big fat bas***** running around spending DADDY AND GRANDPAS MONEY has made it a joke!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2016 02:58AM by Wayne Girbach.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? May 03, 2016 02:26PM
A lot of interest has been lost for young people to get started in pulling since the day of the county fairs not having the local farm classes anymore and county fairs are not really county fairs anymore
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? May 05, 2016 01:42PM
Not all of us are using Daddy's money. My tractor come out of my pocket.
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Re: Pulling in the future: will pulling go the way of other motorsports? May 06, 2016 01:30AM
Did cubic inch really kill the class. Its is hard to say that. Look at Light Super. It has a 505 cube inch limit yet the class hasn't grown from 10 years ago. I think it is a couple of things that has nothing to do with cubic inch. The first thing that happens is a class gets started. Typically when that happens you see people take what they have and compete. Typically those vehicles are lower budget. As time goes the competition becomes stronger because people want to win. So competitors put more money in their vehicle to get better. Then some competitors that have a bigger budget, and maybe more time put more into it, and with dynos, and engine technology that follows down from higher up classes and just experience, some vehicles make big leaps. This is when the problems start to occur, because their are some that can make the leap, and others that can not. It just happens in every class, no matter the rules.

Next is that organizations do not do a good job at designing rules with any forethought, are horrible at enforcing the rules as they are written, to many " this is how we interoperate the rules" tech guys. To much trying to get every tractor to fit the rules type rules. I think pullers, and builders should be able to have some input on rules, but the organization, should be the last word, and make decisions based on the customer. That means keeping pulling tractors on the track and putting on a good show. Really has nothing to do with the puller, or builder. That doesn't mean they shouldn't take care of the puller, (I have other issues with orgs on that), but the tech and rules committee need to be a bunch of A-holes. That means enforcing the rules, making changes as required, and not having favoritism. It helps to eliminate favoritism in the rules, when you do not allow pullers to run their own rule changes. I hate to say it, but that is really the truth. If you compete in the class you should be able to give input, but should not be able to make a decision, because your decisions are biased towards your own benefits. Even though we are all good people, we still usually do what is best for us as an individual, not the whole. On the same token orgs got to have some forethought. You know history, experience needs to be used to create rules, that will work 3-5 years down the road, and they also have to be aware of potential problems, and head them off before they are started. Next is the rules are black and white. There is no room for interpretation. There can not be well we meant that too. There is no reading between the lines. It is what it is. So if someone has come up with a clever design, and rules do not blank and white say that it is illegal, then it is legal, and the organization needs to make a determination then if they need to add some rules to cover it, or reword an existing rule to cover the new clever design. But until that happens it would be legal, and good organization will take care of it in an appropriate amount of time. It also means that more tech needs to happen. Not protesting tech, more we are going to look over your vehicle, and make sure you are following the rules. It isn't the puller's responsibility to enforce the rules on other competitors. (that's a bad idea.) It is the organizations responsibility. And when someone is caught cheating there has to be a punishment. Loss of winnings, points, and fines should be a start. From there you could go to suspensions. Suspensions do not have to be a year long always either. Also vehicle inspection after suspensions should be a must. And all of these things should be public, and what the offense was.

Now as too the original question on the thread. I see both sides, but to be honest, as technology moves forward, and the limited amount of blocks that are available, I see the higher classes moving towards billet. Is it necessary, yes and no. Some classes right now could benefit, but a warning is that a billet block can break too. (This is where you need foresight.) If they let billet happen, then I think they should make the rule, as to how tall, wide, and long the block can be, and if it can be over head cam or pushrod motor, other than that anything else goes. Much easier to tech, and the outside dimensions keep the builders inside a box, and box still allows for creativity. Building a billet block, identical to the stock block defeats the purpose of the billet block. I know people don't like spec blocks, but that is really the only way to do it, and make tech easier with limited time and budgets. The rules right now only benefit those you can get an OEM number, or can cast a block. That is bad for pullers, because it limits choice, and limited competition on who can build a block, and that means the builders of the current aftermarket blocks can charge any price they want.

Thanks for letting us voice our opinions Jake.
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