06:43:34am, Friday, April 19, 2024
|
How to grow the sport of pulling My thoughts
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
Dick interesting you have this post. I just put a post on another forum that I think has some merit to this subject. I have felt for sometime that the European pulling model has a lot of merit in growing our sport and filling the grandstands. You do not see people going to drag races to see john force or another racer going down the track, ONCE.
I have attended several, maybe 6 European pulls. I am all for how they run their pulls and set their sleds. Fuchtorf is a invitational pull. They cannot get another spectator into the place! Notice I did not say in the grandstands, the grandstands are packed with standing spectators, they are not sitting grandstands. The pits are open, which are also packed along with many vendor carts and food carts! The tractors vary from state level to GN level unlimited. The spectator’s go crazy with excitement. Watching the 2 qualifying runs before the finals, when I see half empty grandstands at some pulls here in the USA and the spectators sitting there without any enthusiasm or emotion, it makes me think that the European presentation has a lot of merit. The announcer also does an excellent job getting the crowed excited and involved. It also gives the tractors a “practice run” to get their front weight and tire air pressure correct. The other thing that would enter into how you felt about the sled setting and how the pull is ran would be why do you tractor pull. I realize there are more than just the two things I am going to mention, but “I” believe these are the two main ones. Are you do you tractor pull for the enjoyment of the tractor going down the track or for the competition to win? If it is for winning or losing then what we do in the USA is correct for you. If it is the enjoyment of the tractor going down the track then think about the European model. I would think the latter would be the equivalent of going to the lake with your boat and water skiing or boat riding for the day. I am a long ways from a drag racing expert, but do drag races really run cars one after another every minute, then why do we think it is necessary to run tractors like that? Maybe we should expect announcers to entertain, rather than just inform. Do the spectators go to drag races hoping to get out in 2 hours? If I went to Maple Grove, Gator Nationals or some other drag race and expected to be out in 2 hours I would not go! I want to see the cars in the pits, get involved and get excited. I want the announcer get me excited when he is telling me about the tractors and pulling. Not teach me like my 10th grade English teacher. The European model the announcers interview the tractors as they are coming off the track, or returning parallel to the track in-front of the spectators, they are excited and motivate the spectators to be excited, Something like at the NFMS only more so. We seem to think we need to get the pull over as quick as possible, why? Do people go to a concert and expect the concert to get over as soon as possible so they can go on to the next great thing? The European pulls I have been to are suppose to start at 11 am, but usually start early, 10:15-10:30. Why, because the spectators started to arrive at 8 am, to walk around in the pits, buy souvenirs and inspect the tractors. Then the pull does not get over until 5 pm! NO ONE LEAVES EARLY! I think the our announcers are excellent, extremely informative. The announcers I have seen in Europe are showman! Sascha; could you post a link to possibly your announcer at Fuchtorf or of another pull with a similar type announcing? I realize we will not be able to understand the words, but listen to the tone and the crowd. I cannot understand German either, I do know the reaction to the crowd there and the tone of the announcer. |
|
Re: How to grow the sport of pulling My thoughts
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Rich. Thanks for the response and your input on improving the show. Do you know what is the normal time between hooks in the European shows. I'm not sure if I agree with the concert analogy. If the performers sang for 15 seconds and tuned their guitars for 5 minutes after a while I believe the fans may become a little restless. I still believe you can not stretch out the show if you don't have enough vehicles. I do like the European model for big shows that have enough vehicles in all the classes. We will see how it works at Bowling Green this summer with their " run for the ring" Sunday. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: How to grow the sport of pulling My thoughts
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
comparing bowling green and fuchtorf is comparing worlds fair to a county carnival !
concert and usa is apples and oranges, concert and fuchtorf is not. How many pulls do you go to where the announcer is out on the track between tractors, talking about the track, picking up the dirt in their hands to show you what it is like, climbing up on tractors talking to the drivers when they are being taken back to the pits while the track is being prepared. Playing tractor pulling songs that are up beat, listen to the tractor pulling song from Europe, maybe Sascha can find a link to it. There is something going on constantly at the European pulls i have been to, rather than watching a roller go up and down the track while thinking about what I am going to do when I get home! Another thought is their tracks I have seen are not as dusty nor do I remember them being torn up as badly as the tracks are here. They put lime on the tracks to hold the moisture when building the track. Watch the video's of the European pulls and see what you think, I maybe remembering it wrong. What goes on at Fuchtorf is an entire package that makes it appealing to the spectators. Right to the point of the "pullers party" the night before that they charge for and sell out for I am thinking a couple thousand people, with wine, food and song, something like Langford but more subdued, "maybe". So the spectators get to rub elbows with the spectators get to meet the pullers and they pay to camp out. Fuchtorf has a VIP platform with open bar and a high end buffet; tickets for the VIP are 125 Euro the last I knew, $144, and they sell out all 200 of them! They had 72 tractors in classes, so 130 hooks., Over 6 hours 21 per hour so a hook every 3 minutes. Looking at NYTPA Lowville there are 30 tractors, figuring less than 2 hours. So that would be approximately is a tractor every 3.6 minutes. Not one of the tractors ran in a pull off. If I was at a pull, I would like to see the competition and see the top tractors pull off in a pull off like Europe. It would be really interesting to have a pull put on in the USA with the same format and type of announcers as Europe for a couple years and see the results. |
|
Re: How to grow the sport of pulling My thoughts
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Rich. I believe we are saying the same thing. There needs to be more entertainment value for the fans. The announcing is most defiantly a huge part of the total package. We in Western NY are blessed with one of the very best announcers in Dan Mayer. No one knows more facts about the sport than Dan. However for ever Dan there's to many that announce their home town show and do not give the fans accurate or interesting information. Way to often same old show, pulling is no different than any other form of entertainment, there should always be an effort to make every show better than the year before. I know that no one puts more effort into that philosophy than the Blue Shirts at Bowling Green. Sure it's Bowling Green, however the effort should not be neglected just because it's the local state-club level show. They all have taken the fans money to provide a tractor pulling entertainment. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
What are your ideas on growing the sport?
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
What are the other members feeling on growing the sport?
I hear the statement about the 2 hours and fairs. I think if you want to grow the sport we should promote and support the stand alone pulls. Pulls at fairs where the goal is 2 hours, those pulls are basically bait to get people there to spend money on the midway. I like the following to help grow the sport: open pits access to pullers, (if anyone listens to Sirius Nascar Radio you will hear the callers continuously talk about the drivers, meeting and greeting them. The racers midway, the pits and other accesses.) stand alone pulls A active announcer a no dust track full pulls and pull offs |
|
I REPEAT, ONE SANCTIONING BODY
|
OP
|
Nuff said |
|
Op Re: I REPEAT, ONE SANCTIONING BODY
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
OP Why do you feel one sanctioning body would help? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2016 12:42PM by Policy Peddler. |
|
Re: Op Re: I REPEAT, ONE SANCTIONING BODY
|
OP
|
One series of national events. One sanctioning body to attract sponsors, all the big names in one group. You don't see any other sanctioning body in the US that says competition is good. NHRA, NASCAR, NFL, NBA, MLB, PBR, PGA ETC. one sanctioning body allows for one set of rules. Not variations on light pro, light limited pro, light limited modified pro you get the picture. Right now you have sponsorship dollars being split between 3 organizations. You have pullers being split between 3 organizations. There is no loyalty in pulling state side. Pullers go where it's convenient or they think the easiest check will come from. There are no distinct levels of pulling. State, RN, or National. Why am I going to plan a vacation around a pulling event like I would say a Daytona 500, NHRA Nationals in Indy, PBR World Finals in Vegas, The Masters in Georgia? People don't plan vacations around pulling because they can hit 1-3 county fairs at the local level and see the biggest names in the sport. Ever been to Georgetown, Ohio in October? The best of the best show up to play for brush pulling money. That's not a knock against G'Town, it's a very well run show. This idea that competing sanctioning bodies is good for the sport is crap. That business model works no where in any other "major sport" in the world. From bowling and golf to the NHRA there is one game in town. Imagine all the big name events under one sanctioning body and all national classes there. Much like NHRA. Imagine if the national guys weren't allowed to hook their local county fair and you had to travel to see them. The sport is diluted the pullers and the money are spread thin. There are no distinct separations in pulling levels. It is never going to change. It could and it should, but it won't. To many egos looking out for #1 |
|
Re: Op Re: I REPEAT, ONE SANCTIONING BODY
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
Preface my posts by a couple things, what I am saying on my posts is what I think and believe, and they are my opinion. There are other opinions, variations that are can be correct. Although my wife says there is Richards opinion and the wrong one, it has taken me a long time to get her to agree to that, or at least agree to it with me. That said OP, when I make the following statements, remember when you are looking for me, I live in Alabama!
OP you say “One sanctioning body to attract sponsors, all the big names in one group”. “You don't see any other sanctioning body in the US that says competition is good.” NHRA, NASCAR, NFL, NBA, MLB, PBR, PGA ETC. one sanctioning body allows for one set of rules.” Let me address the biggest motorsport first. Not sure where I mis-understand you, do you watch stock car racing? NASCAR is their own competition! You can watch the sprint car drivers, Bush, Earnhardt jr, and other of the big names running on Saturday in Infinity, Friday in Trucks, all with different “rules and designs”. You can watch the same sprint car drivers at local dirt tracks, again a different rule book and a different sanctioning body. Then several of them run sprint cars, both winged and un-winged, again different rule book, sponsors, different sanctioning body and promoters. Then you can go to the Chile bowl and watch Kasey Kane, and others run, different rule book, promoters, sanctioning body, and sponsors. The same drivers run one series all one year, then run a different one all the next year! You mention NHRA, are you a drag race fan? NHRA also puts on the NHRAL, Hot Rod Reunions and other regional, divisional and local events can some of the drag race aficionados tell me if the racers can race at other races or just one class? IHRA, American Drag Racing League, Super Chevy Show and others I think would be upset to know you did not mention them nor consider them! There is also the NEDRA, National Electric Drag Racing Association and other sanctioning bodies. Football, there currently is the NFL and Fall Experimental Football League. There has been the NFL Europe (that played in the USA and was part of the NFL), Stars Football League then there are several Arena Football Leagues. I do not think I need to address any of the other organizations you mention at this point, I believe you will find the same with them. I think if you talk to NTPA, and PPL they will disagree with you that there are no differences between “levels” of pulling. In addition to the pullers themselves, ask Voreis, Eder, Sullivan and others if they think there are different levels of pulling or if they are just the same as the Saturday afternoon pullers with an econo mod that go where the money is the easiest? Regarding planning vacations, the people I talk to must be of a different crowd than you know. I know people that plan on going to Bowlingreen, that is the only pull they go to, others who only go to Tomah and NFMS. How much do you think Tony Stewart use to get paid when he came and ran sprint cars with the local boys when the Sprint cup was in the area, how about when Kenny Schrader went to the local dirt tracks when he was running Winston Cup in the area? I disagree with you, almost any sport if not all have competition from other sanctioning bodies with the same sport. Do you think the individual teams would be as good as they are with out good completion? How about the individual organizations? If PPL did not want to be sure that their top mod pullers stayed with them they would have gotten all the sponsors for them that they did? So with all that, I respectfully disagree with you. |
|
song
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
This is the type of song that is played during the pulls in Europe.
Song |
|
Re: song
|
They play more American songs @ EuroCup pulls than anything. Everyone should go attend a pull over there atleast once, then when you come back here, it will be boring as heck. We have a DJ do our local pull & it works great. But its hard to get anything new & different beat into most of these pull promoters over here. |
|
Re: song
|
fan of smoke
|
I don't think making pulls longer for entertainment will work at the local fair level. The fairs barely want tractor pulls as it is. Some have time limitations. This is a hurry up and get it done world we live in here in the US. Some areas are worse than others. Start the pull on time, have a good announcer and move things along. If the sled breaks or there is downtime then fill in with some type of entertainment. Again a good announcer can do that with no problem. |
|
Re: song
|
Lewis
|
Cody Ive pulled several times in Tenn and plan on doing a lot more this year the crouds seem to get into pulling more there than they do here in Ky. Here if you don't blow up catch on fire or flip it you never hear a clap in the 80s it was nothing to se the croud all stand as the tractors hit the full pull mark.But its probably because starting thsi weekend there will be 2 or 3 pulls a week for the rest of the summer |
|
Re: song
|
jonnie late to thread topic
|
Dick Morgan concluded his 2nd op-ed with "Trying to put a band-aid on a small show only make it a small show poorly run." I totally agree. Spectators see a slow, which is usually poorly operated, pull and they will soon leave. Usually after the first class if not even dwindling out during that first class. Actually, more spectators should be arriving then, not exiting. If they are exiting, that means a serious problem exists to attract them, let alone their friend(s) for next year. That means the pull is financially self destructing. That is not helping the cause of promoting the sport of pulling. Doesn't matter if its a major sanctioning body, a local grass roots pull or something in between.
I have read all the posts to this topic. Many valid points and views. An open level headed forum of such is needed to address the problem. Totally agree with Dick that the fan, be it dedicated or very occasional, needs to have input into what attracts them to a pull in order to help grow the pulling sport. And that opinion needs to be respected. That is something too many pullers participating in these chatboards have a problem with as their 'mighty ego' shows. They think that since they pull, they are the only ones that should have any say. Well, excuse me. Yes, I have been around this sport a long time and have seen a lot of things. And will again this year. "OP", go find your dad's NTPA rulebook from the mid 80's and then tell us how many states were a member of NTPA. That worked out real well, didn't it?!!! Carl Downs, I really enjoyed your input. Very valid points. Trust I will see you next month. |
|
Jonnie come lately
|
OP
|
Actually I would say it worked quite well. Wrangler then Copenhagen. Many would call the 80's the golden age of pulling. If you follow the NHRA model one body big national events it could work extremely well. I don't care who the sanctioning body is, I personally believe the sport would be better served with 1. The examples given above of NHRA this and that it's still NHRA, the NFL is still the NFL. As far as guys competing in different NASCAR events, Dale Jr. Does not take the 88 and run it in the truck class. He runs the rules for the trucks and it's still a NASCAR product. The chili bowl is not Sunday racers in a cup car, it's guys in a winged sprint. Point being there are distinct levels. In pulling for example you can see Petro's run at the local county fair, so why pay the big bucks to go to BG or Tomah when I can go 10 min from the house? (They are a great team, just using a premier team as an example). One sanctioning body with all the national events under one banner. Wheatland, Tomah, Hamburg etc. The fans in Outlaw country don't see Esdon or Lustik so on and so forth. |
|
Re: Jonnie come lately
|
Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Back in the 80's there definitely was not separation of the classes between national events and state events. I've been saying for over 10 years that for the premier clases to be anticipated and special they need to be national event only. As you said, I can go to my local dragstrip and see drag racing, but not a class of Nitro fueled cars; to see them I have to pay the big bucks for a Natinal event. Ironically when you hear many on here pine for the good old days it's the exact opposite that they want. They remember their local heroes clallenging the big dogs at a local national event. Back then there were no more pullers chasing national points than there are now, but the clases at national events were huge due to the locals jumping in. The sport has evolved so much since then that it's not practical anymore because just like the nitro drag classes it's to expensive for more than a relatively small number of people to afford a vehicle in the elite classes. TWD and Mod 4x4 are probably the exceptions and not coincidentally about the only classes that still see big numbers at national events because locals mix it up with the national pullers.
Riddle me this, why did NTPA lose those big sponsors mentioned? That happened before the states started dropping NTPA affiliation and the creation of ATPA and Outlaws, so I would argue they were a result, not a cause. NHRA has IHRA and NASCAR has ARCA and while neither of the competitors is as big as the leader, they keep the leaders aggressive and on their toes. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the NTPA became complacent because they had no competition and that is why they lost major sponsors and member states. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,576, Posts: 229,605, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,058, Posts: 225,857.
Global: Topics: 38,576, Posts: 229,605, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,058, Posts: 225,857.
Our newest member BadHabit2
