Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 22, 2016 04:21PM
Last weekend at BG, in session 1 after the Open SS hook, Steve Burge made a test pass at the same sled setting and would have finished 2nd had he been competing. Blackbourn went 318, Burge went in the neighborhood of 305 to 310.

For comparison, Burge was 20 feet behind Ross and finished 3rd in the first DSS hook, and 13 feet behind Ross in the 2nd hook, taking 4th.

I believe Jake has said before that to compare apples to apples, you need to compare the top tractors in both classes.

Well, Burge was not at the very top but was near the top and compared very favorably with the GN alkies. I believe had the Triple Bypass hooked in the Open SS class, it could have won 1 or possibly both SS Open hooks last weekend.

We remember in the 1990s how the diesels just could not compete with Conner, Blackbourn, Kwiatkowski, etc. Could it be that the top diesel guys have done their homework and now can run heads up with Blackbourn, Lustik, and Galot?

Its a good topic to at least bring to the table. If the very top DSS guys can now run with the alcohol tractors, a merger would bring make 2 classes that are hurting for numbers into a "Super" super stock class. Should NTPA start a discussion about reuniting the class?

Discuss away.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2016 04:43PM by The Original Michael.
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Eureka! Perfect test case August 22, 2016 04:30PM
Next month at the Enderle, I propose running the DSS and Open SS classes together, with their own separate Enderle purse.

That would be a great test, and if by chance the alcohol tractors did dominate, it wouldn't affect the diesels as each class would be pulling for their own separate Enderle purse, iust at the same time with the same sled setting. I honestly think it would be closer than many would think.

They wouldn't have enough seats to hold all the people if they would be willing to try this experiment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2016 04:35PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Eureka! Perfect test case August 22, 2016 05:28PM
back in those days it was tractor blocks versus tractor blocks,with the cat being the only v8.sure looked like ross,l and l,bonetwister,and hunt would be competitive against lustik on some tracks,but against the 903,wouldnt stand a chance on most tracks.if the 903 woulda never been allowed you might have a good idea
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Re: Eureka! Perfect test case August 23, 2016 01:03AM
On a power track there isn't a DSS out there that will be within 30 ft of a top running Open SS....
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Re: Eureka! Perfect test case August 23, 2016 01:08AM
Are you saying Bowling Green isn't a power track? Many people would disagree.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 01:11AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Eureka! Perfect test case August 24, 2016 02:09AM
Quote
The Original Michael
Are you saying Bowling Green isn't a power track? Many people would disagree.

Some on here are saying that the BG tracks were rough this year and that the north track was not up to par.......So,are saying that a 3500 plus? horsepower DSS can run heads up with a 5000 horsepower OSS tractor? Theres only one way to find out but will the DSS tractors want to try it..
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 22, 2016 11:10PM
It's amazing to me, how bench pullers have answers to problems that don't exist. If those two classes needed combined the NTPA would have done so. Leave things alone, if you want a combination class, there are plenty of other organization's that already do that.
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 23, 2016 12:15AM
It is a fact that both NTPA heavy SS classes are down on numbers this year. PPL only has 9 unlimited supers regularly on the Champions tour so they aren't lighting the world on fire either. I'd say there's a real problem that absolutely does exist.

2 years ago John Raymond got 5th in an Open SS hook at BG, and this year Burge was 3rd and 4th in DSS yet would have been easily 2nd in the first open SS hook had he been competing. It's a topic worthy of discussion, especially with the biggest problem of low #s in both classes at most GN events.

Look at the results across the entire season and you will find single #s of entries at many events in both DSS and Open SS. Also, I've heard rumors this is the last year for the Chizek/Blackbourn Open SS tractors. Hope it isn't true, but without them it is extremely thin pickings. Something else to think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 12:17AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 23, 2016 01:15AM
So how's combining the two going to increase numbers? What you are missing is both classes sell themselves, promoters keep booking them as they are. The cost of having a top level Super keeps most away from either class. Take Chizik's and Well's money out and what do you have left in the open class. Again you want a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 23, 2016 01:21AM
Low numbers aren't a problem? Take Chizek and Wells out of the Open SS class and there would not be a class. You just made a point for a merger.

Chizek may be done with open SS if rumors are correct, though I hope they are not.

If there are 4-5 of both Open SS and Diesel SS that precommit to their classes, and by merging there would be 10 precommits, that would be great... IF the diesel guys would go along.

One other point: Blackbourn has the 903. I believe Jeff Hirt, who doesnt run NTPA, and Controlled Chaos, who hasnt been out all summer, do also. Do Lustiks still run the Cat motor? I believe the Galots are still 6 cylinder engines but if not someone please correct. My point being we're not talking about very many 903s, perhaps even fewer depending on what Chizek does.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2016 01:47AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 23, 2016 02:01AM
Anyone that wants to put forth the argument that neither the DSS or the OSS are low on numbers is kidding themselves. However there is a bigger issue here than low numbers and that's show quality. While both the DSS and the OSS have their loyal followings, the fact is that the possible winner in either class is between just a couple competitors. Combining the DSS and OSS will add excitement that the classes and the sports lacks. More interest and excitement will be generated by this merger than any other move the NTPA can make. Can you imagine the following that this class will have by this one single move.

While I understand that the one pass that Lock an Load made is not a fair test group, it does show that with weight, drawbar adjustments the two classes can run together.

Why it should happen: Low numbers in both classes is not a product that the pulling fan wants to see, no less pay for. The merger will generate excitement and renewed fan interest.

Why it won't happen; The NTPA will have one less class to offer to the promoters. The pullers themselves will resist the merger. Change comes hard.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 23, 2016 04:52AM
with proper foresight this issue woulda been handeled in 1988,and I'm in no way blaming bryan and ernie,they wanted to win....
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 24, 2016 03:52AM
I agree but I have no idea what ANY organization could have done. I remember when is was a kid in the early 90's and Bryan and Ernie's tractor was the thing to watch. Fans would drive great distance to see it run as there was never anything like it before. I know this topic has been beat to death before but I still think a USS hooked in to the track will win most times. Just my thoughts
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 24, 2016 05:02AM
There are no rules keeping diesels out of the USS class, So if the diesel tractors wanted to pull against the Alky tractors I'm sure they would. Having more events that offered a shootout type class that ran the two classes together would be great...Have a company like Hypermax for example offer bonus money to any diesel tractor that wins.
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Re: Is it time to consider merging the Heavy SS classes? August 24, 2016 06:15PM
being from northwest iowa i dont see alot of ntpa pulls but the oss class can weigh 8000 and the hdss 8200 in the ntpa is what im thinking dont hold me to that but if a merger was ever considered would that be a fair weight difference or would it have to be tweaked a little because in the ottpa in the lss class the alcohol tractors weigh less than the diesels i believe
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DSS HP vs OSS August 25, 2016 12:53AM
A lot of people state that the DSS are around 3500 hp, but I have heard Ross's new tractor actually dyno'd 4800 and they backed it down from that.

I for one think a merger would be awesome (considering the low numbers in each class), however, I agree that 2 examples wouldnt justify it or prove that the OSS didnt have a large advantage.

On a side note, can a grand national DSS run both the DSS and OSS at the same pull? I believe there has been an issue with this before, such as folks wanting to run LSS and DSS same night. Prolly wrong.
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Re: DSS HP vs OSS August 25, 2016 01:38AM
If I remember right the Smoke and Mirrors John Deere pulled in both the DSS and the OSS classes in Tomah a couple years back
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Re: DSS should merge with LSS August 25, 2016 02:15AM
the light supers shold add some weight and pull with the deisel supers and then the diesel guys could win a few.
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