03:32:33pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/20/2015 Posts: 61 |
A bit of advice would be great what works out there if you are starting a local circuit which is now mainly antique we are trying to up it there is lots of interest and some have been pulling in previous circuits to establish a not crap 3000 rpm class 10000 lb what works to stay cost effective and please the fans some say 480 cube some say 505 some say keep the 8.3 out some say keep the 540 out I kind of like 505 2.75 x 3 water 10000 38 inch rubber no cuts and then run 410 cube and similar rules for tractors under 410 and run around 8000 lb any advice is welcome thanks |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 12/25/2015 Posts: 66 |
A 505 inch limit, 10,000 lb or so, with a Box charger and 20.8's makes a good class with color and easy to police. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 263 |
Box turbo, the smaller you make the turbo the cheaper it will be and the less any other rules matter. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/12/2016 Posts: 55 |
If your serious about keeping cost in check heres my 2 cents worth. We run this exact class and it is VERY popular.
Weight 12,500 however Id suggest 11-11.5 as the only tractors with problems under 12.5 are 6030's and the 619 can easily be refit into a smaller lighter JD of many series. 3000RPM and 18mph. RPM Monitored with a plug to the eliminator Speed displayed on the board. 18.0 good, 18.1 DQ Tire up to 20.8-42's, NO CUT, no alterations. Want to contain costs more limit turbo to a max of 3x3 or smaller No ice boxes or water slugged turbos but water injection is ok. ROPS or a cage, wheelie bars and good hitch such as a Haslag or other similar designed for pulling. Blankets or an SFI Flywheel. Some scoff at the speed limit idea but i will GARANTEE if you dont have one you will not be able to contain the costs. And you would be surprised how competetive and how much skill it takes to run the speed and not go over. We have this class now and it routinely has 9-11 tractors and this summer promotors bought it up, we had 24 points hooks this summer. We have cubes from 466 to 640, a 466 cube tractor won the points this season. red712 |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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curious 2
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what does it cost to build 1 of these red712? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Jake Davis
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Building a tractor to pull a mph class what a joke might as well pull in farm stock limit the air and go pulling |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/12/2016 Posts: 55 |
Assuming you do the bulk of the work yourself, obviously some things your going to buy like fuel inj system, turbo and such. You can build one that can compete from scratch for $20-25k.
red712 |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Our club runs 585 inches 3x3 turbo p pump water injection. 20.8 any cut tire. Makes for a interesting speed class. Usually 25-30 mph. Two classes 9500 and 10500 pounds. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/20/2015 Posts: 61 |
712 are there any videos out with any runs the guys that will be making the class are all coming out of farm stock and your idea may work thanks |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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WCIP puller
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In Western Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota and SW Minn there is a 3000 rpm class that runs a box 3LM 466 turbo. Most of these are 466 cube limit but 505 would not probably hurt anything. If you run that turbo, it is small enough that it would choke down the big cube tractors. Plenty of tractors in the class and usually a couple of pulls every week. Can get in for not to much money. The top runners have spent more but the guys just starting are not that far back. 20.8 non cut, no water |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/12/2016 Posts: 55 |
You tube, NEW Motorsports Hobby farm not many videos up from this year but lots from last year.
red712 |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 06/28/2016 Posts: 20 |
Box charger is the way to go to keep costs down. An S300 series charger ($800ish) is a good option. Below is what we run and some videos to give you an idea.
MMTTPA 11,000lb. Hot Stock Tractors 1. 466 cubic inch limit. Any motor over 466 cubic inches must have factory stroke and bore for that brand of tractor, up to a maximum of 585 cubic inches. 2. The tractor is limited to a single turbo charger you can run a 3LM up to the S300 2.36 inlet. The S300 is limited to a 90 housing with part #177272 or 100 housing with part #177209. Must be out of the box with no modifications. 3. Injection pump can be up to a (P7100) Pump max. 4. Max RPMS – 2950 5. Max tire size 20.8x38. 6. Water injection allowed [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Jake Davis
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South west wisconsin and pi take a look at what works for mmttpa probably way better than just a speed limit |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/12/2016 Posts: 55 |
I'll have to disagree, without a speed limit the money rockets right up unless your really tight on engine and turbo. Its much harder to drive an 18mph than a drop the throttle and roll but it costs more to go fast.
But I really like the listed limits above from MMPTA red712 Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2016 06:26AM by red712. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I have been involved in local pulling since 1976. We tried to organize a circuit years ago in Northeastern Pa. and Southern NY. but it never got off the ground.I fully understand what you are trying to do. Are you really trying to be cost effective and what does that mean to you. Once you go over 466 cubes to include 504 and 540 tractors you have lost the cost effective part. Now you have those who want to win boring, stroking, reworking heads running expensive pumps and turbos etc. to keep up and beat the 540 tractors. You end up with guys running a 600 cube Riverside(high $)engines and claiming to be at 466 or what ever your limit is. The other issue is turbo size. Many farm stock classes say 3" max. I get a real kick out of that. What farm tractor came with a 3" charger ? We ran a 4320 for years with stock turbo which is just under 2". Injection pumps that look stock is another joke. You can't tell a 800 cc pump from a 300cc pump without tearing it apart. You have to have rules that you can up hold or you will be out of control real fast. With that said most pulls are on the out of control side with no way to enforce the rules. Once you start enforcing them all heck breaks loose. Been there done that. Enforce them from day one and have all those who are involved on the same page or you are done. We stepped out of pulling the last few years just see where things are headed in our area. Good luck ! |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Red, I have to disagree with that, with their rule of a box s300, they really limit the cost. With this small turbo, there is only so much you can do as far as the engine goes and any of the further improvements are just wasted money. The s300 will only clean up so much fuel therefore limiting the amount of fuel that will make the tractor run at peak hp. A lot of the top tractors in this class run a 466, p pump, and a s300 with their choice of cam and head work if they prefer. Especially with water injection allowed, they are making a good safe class that the tractors will last a long time and limiting the cost. With this small turbo, Ive seen many of this set up on the dyno and the highest Ive seen is about 750hp give or take 50 hp. Just my view. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
This is a great set of rules!!!! Especially #1 rule for allowing other bigger cube engines in like Case, MF, MM, and the 531. Will give a lot of variety. Weight could be lowered to 9500 and 10,500 |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Boring pulling
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Roll cages, tube frames, and cut tires to pull mph limits. Super cool. Speed limits are the most boring thing to watch or pull in. Big money wins nine times out of ten. The tenth is either blind luck or the big money puller sped. You can try and convince yourselves that's not the case but look at nearly every speed limited points race across the country, the power is at the top. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
Good videos! |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
One thing I havent seen mentioned is a protest rule. We have a $500 protest rule and that includes a tear down. I have seen some other associations list different fees for different protests.
Say $500 for a visual inspection. $1000 for a total engine tear down. This will at least let people in the class know they can be checked at any time or can check other tractors at any time. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
Yea but then you have to have s tech committee and they must actually check stuff rather than just posting rules on a website and going by the honor system. As far as turbo rules a box s300 may be a better option than the old 3lm, 2.6x2.8 s300's can be bought out of box for $600-800. Racehorses, how many Jd big block tractors are running the 531 ci engines against 466's? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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You should all just pull one red tractor because however you want to turn the rules they will be geared for red |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 263 |
You john dear guys are such cry baby's lol Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2016 12:55PM by Dairy blend. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Not trying to be a @#$%& starter and not a johndeere cry baby lol what about your 531 case and Massey tractors ? Why cut the cubes and weight to acomodate small block of all colors just saying . I have done some research myself and in the south they have two hot farm classes Basically heavy big cube and lighter small cube We have same problem in hot antique with 560s and Oliver's verses molines and cases it's always friction too run them together and I don't begrudge any one from there choice of color Just seems like two classes would be pleasant for all and more rules the more expensive |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 263 |
I'm just stirring the pot! I'm all for color and I have no issue with cubic inch, just keep the turbo small in the cubic inch won't matter. You want to have a cheap class, limit the air and not much else will matter |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Good point
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Exactly right. A lot of clubs make the mistake of going to big with the charger in what's supposed to be the starter class. Not saying it has be the old 3lm, but the bigger the inlet gets the more cubes start to become important. |
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3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
I attached our rules we run and it is cost effective and fun. we can also get sold into bigger shows bc we don't have to listen to that damn horn.. I just cant see spending any big amount of money to have to pull a speed limit class.. smoke and speed limits don't sell tickets. We are also on you ube and facebook look up (Tri State Limited Hot Farm) |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Anonymous User
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What kinda power tristate guys maken ? |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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3lm numbers
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Don't know that org but seen enough 3LM/466/3000 RPM tractors to know. With the right cam/piston setup and water, 530-540 horse. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Anonymous User
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Brings up the Rotary vs a pump vs p pump questions
I would think a 480 cubic inches,3lm and 3000rpm would be almost perfect. Would a p pump be to much fuel?! |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 06/28/2016 Posts: 20 |
The 13mm rotaries will keep us just fine with a P3000 or P7100 with that setup. Works either way. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Justin S
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Question for JLR how much $ is the turbo? |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 01/12/2016 Posts: 55 |
Just a question........JLR
Does your organization actually tech and check for cubes prior to the season and or when a new tractor comes to the group or club? Or is it only if someone protests and has to put up money for a tech inspection? red712 |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
We are a fairly green group so far and we all have helped each other build so far and know whats in them right now but we have been open to let guys run if its midway thru and not prove cubes but they are always open to be protested and they will be required to prove cubes that winter or before the next season starts. We try to be fair but gotta be strict to try to build the class.. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Price
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I assume you mean a 3LM-466. Here you go. [www.scheiddiesel.com] |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
That's a 2.3x2.5 correct? A 2.55x2.75 can be done for maybe 800 bucks but you can buy an out of the box s300 2.6x2.8 for 600-800. For about the same money you r getting a better turbo with the s300. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 03/05/2010 Posts: 28 |
That is a very good point as far as chargers go. But we feel this limit can maintain for a very close class. We have heard from different people that a S300 charger is not much more. I don't think $300 is a lot for the charger but how much do you have to spend on the driveline to make it durable? That is why we went will the 3lm. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Why not just run speed limit? |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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me
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What are the dimensions of the 3lm 466 turbo ? |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 06/28/2016 Posts: 20 |
Never measured the exhaust side, but intake side is 2.33". |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 01/20/2015 Posts: 61 |
When running the 2.33 what is the variance of the cubes pulling in the class and how are they finishing I'm wondering if the 2.33 keeps the class close |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
with the 2.33 your right it keeps horse power close. turns the game into tractor setup and tires and driver. these tractors seem to react well to being ran as hard as the rules allow meening if ur allowed 3250 you better leave the whole at 3240 bc its hard to maintain rpm with the little charger and big gear.. its interesting choosing weights some day because u need enough front weight to get out of the whole but also need it to carry on the big end.. its fun and best of all no horn in your ear.. we run between 18mph and 22 depending on track and transfer setting. very economical class.we also are looking into adding the s360 like the MMTTPA rules are with the hope to help the smaller cube guys and also give a little choice.. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
2.33 x2.75 out is the charger we run it is part #193876 |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
We run 2.33 x2.75 out is the charger we run it is part #193876.. these run between 450$ and 550$ depending on where u buy them |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
honestly ys a p-3000 is almost too big im backed clear down and have never cleared up much im kicking around changing to a rotary.. also playing with some injector this winter if I get time to dyno. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
I would guess with the air to ice cooler we are 550 ish |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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New to 3k
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Are there any 3000 rpm pulls near central to eastern Ohio? May some local fair or. Brush pulls. Can't afford to run any sanctioned clubs.
Thanks |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
Americanfarmpullers.com and there is also Glenford lions club tractor pulls |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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JLR, where are you guys out of? We run almost the exact same rules with the Nebraska Bush Pullers. 3200rpm stock 3LM turbo p-pumps just no intercoolers or water at this time. Big reason I'm asking is Clint Tucker is having a superfield class in Gordyville,IL in January and would like to see more hooks in the class. Billie Ruwe |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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Posts: 25 |
Mmpullr,
We are planning on having a few of our guys out there to pull with you guys. I have been in contact with Mr. Tucker and we are the reason for the exempted rules for intercooler tractors but have to run 8400 lbs. Appriciate the heads up though. This is a fun class for the money hope to see it grow everywhere. Feel free to message me I will give you my number on there so you can just call me. |
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Re: 3lm open speed is the way to go
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And with p-pump on 466 with stock 3LM no water injection or intercooler 600+ hp is obtainable on the Dyno. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Mmttpa rules look great but limit to 505 and the turbo has to be bought from the club and sealed if seal is broken DQ. Everyone should be within 10 feet of each other |
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American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Seen em pull
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Ive seen both American farm pullers and Glenford group run. You better bring your A game, these guys are for real! Very good running 3k tractors! They got It going on! |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Forever Green
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Not sure what organization was pulling at Muskingum county fair in Zanesville ohio in August. We were in visiting family and took in that pull in central ohio this year. There was a 6030 I think that was pulling in the farm stock class that ran really well. Not sure what weight or rules were, however it looked like a good mix of farm tractors in central ohio area. |
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Muskingum county fair and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Muskingum county pull was put on by Muskingum county fair board and produced by The Glenford Lions Club. Most of the Glenford group typically runs 3000 rpms, checked while pull is being made via an rpm sensor on tractor thats plugged into a monitor box on the sled, 12,500 lb. and 14,500 lbs. 20.8 tires, 20 inch drawbar, ROPS, scatter blankets. GlenfordPulls.com has rules posted. We have a variety of tractors from Case, Massey, Deere, IH. Ford, that have pulled at the Muskingum pull. We have 3 pulls a year at Glenford, 1 at Muskingum, 1 at Perry county fair, 1 Morgan county fair, We also attend 2 hooks at Fairfield county fairgrounds, their county fair, and Mt. Pleasant Shootout by the Fairfield Young Farmers. We also attend other pulls when possible around central Ohio area. We welcome anyone who wants to attend and or compete. Hope to see yall there next year. Wishing yall a Blessed Thanksgiving. rw |
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Glenfordpull.com
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Correction from my earlier post. The website is glenfordpull.com , not genfordpulls.com
Thanks rw |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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SuperD
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The Mt. Pleasant Shoot out and the Fair pull are NOT 3,000 rpm classes. They never have been. |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Super D, you are correct with regards to the Mt. Pleasant Shootout and fair pull not being checked rpm. However most of the Glenford guys and others from around the area and neighboring counties usually show up to pull. The Shootout is one of the best payout pulls around usually purse is North of $10,000.00 dollars and the Fairfield county fair is the last county fair in Ohio. So both pulls usually have a good attendance. rw Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2018 10:47AM by RW IH 1568. |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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SuperD
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The money had gotten a lot better at the shoot out and at the fair pulls. Some of the reason the shoot out got better was they seen what Outvillewas paying. A few years ago I won the shoot out, the check for 1st place was $150. Then I won at the fair, got a nice trophy and check for 1st was $125. But hey it’s 10 minutes from the house, I won’t pass it up. |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Super D . What happened to the Outville pulls. We were planning to go one year, and that year was the year they stopped having it. So we never got to pull there. We heard it was a nice pull though.
rw |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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SuperD
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Several things. A certain person, not Joe with Central Ohio double booked the class the same night as Troy. We weren’t going to be double booked cause it would have been more trouble than it was worth. Hook at Troy, drive a hard 2 hours to get to Outville. It would have hurt both shows an we weren’t taking the chance. So that is why a light pro / limited pro / super farm class was booked, $2,000 purse for the class. We had a great show. Then we had some changes with people and people had different paths they wanted to explore. So they don’t have the pulls like they use too, took a lot of time and money to do. |
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Re: Glenfordpull.com
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
I see, it would be nice to see them pull again, even if it's only a brush pull like Glenford. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Pull fan
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I was at that pull too. Yes there was some running tractors . I remember There was a black tractor that put the sled into a mud hole at the end of track. Very exciting pull . |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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El Deero
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This isn’t 1985 anymore, ditch the 3lm idea. If you’re wanting open speed, a rule set like mid mo’s works great. If it’s gonna be a speed limit class then open up the rules to any pump, any charger much like ECI’s 2hot class or mo states hot stock class and set your speed limit in that 12-16mph range. Decreasing the rules allows more competitors but there needs to be either a limit on air or on speed because it can get out of hand quickly if not. Pump rules on the other hand border on full potato.... |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Their whole idea is affordable. 3lm is extremely cheap for what power is capable from them. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest every year. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Hunter
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^^^^^^^ dude you really need to price a s300 series turbo only a couple hundred more but will gain you 100 to 150 hp over a 3lm |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 01/23/2011 Posts: 241 |
The line has to be drawn somewhere, why not at the 3LM466 turbo? Is it not durable or dependable?
Rich |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Boring pulling
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They are just as dependable as the classes that run them are boring. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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El deero
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The last box s300 I bought (part #177272) was only like $625 with the exhaust housing. $100 more than a 3lm-466 and 10 times the charger.... once again, this ain’t 1985.... |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
There was more tractors and bigger crouds in 1985 wheres it went and why in 2018 |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 07/22/2014 Posts: 197 |
If you’re asking where did all the people go, I’ll give you an example. Where I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s there were close to 30 farms within a 2 mile radius of our farm. With approximately 125 people living on them. Today at least 10 of those farms are gone completely. And the remaining ones only have about 30 people. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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wow
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the year 1985. Come on, stop with the ignorance. You literally just answered your own question, the 3lm is a good way to limit the air. Yes, an s300 is a better turbo, but there has to be a limit somewhere. I know the 466 stock appearing pump and 3lm turbo class around here has tractors in it that consistently spin out in road gear if the track and sled allow it. If they were running s300 turbos I can promise you they would be going faster than road gear and burning it in all the time. That is with stock appearing pumps even. The 3lm is a good charger for an entry level farm stock/ hot farm type class. I know of several 3lm tractors that would be happy to show a middle of the pack s300 tractor what's up. On a side note, I have found that the majority of people who complain about 3lm turbos have tractors with these magical s300 turbos that still run like crap. Nobody is saying an s300 is not a great charger, but the point is that for any level of pulling in a class with rules there has to be a limit somewhere. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
There are many different sized s300's, either make rules on a stock size s300 or have to buy a box charger through your organization. Not all 3lm turbos are the same size either. Stock is 2.3x2.7, you can get them 2.7x3 or 3x3. Sounds like you may need a tech committee in your area. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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wow
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There is only one size out of the box 3lm-466, Borg Warner part number 193876. The organizations I am talking about have them disassembled, inspected, and sealed. The engines are even cubic inch checked. I know you can get bigger 3lm turbos, but they are all custom built. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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El deero
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Entry level and 3lm don’t go in the same sentence Mr. Wow. To get this road gear performance out of a 3lm-466 you’re looking at extensive engine work, cam, head, top of the line pump and injectors, probably a stroked crank, and the list goes on. To get what, 550hp? Lets use a 1466 for this example since that seems to be your basic farm stock starting point across the country. Slap a 13mm hi lift, good injectors and lines on that binder with a s300 and you’re already in that 550-600 pony range with a stock cam and head. You’re literally spending double, if not more, to get a 3lm to run with even a basic s300 setup. That’s not cheaper by any stretch.
If you wanna talk even closer to entry level let’s use the local 8500lb repower class (basically 4010/4020 with combine engines). Tractor A. is a 4010 with a 6466t engine from a 7720. Setup is a 10mm A pump in that 350-370cc range and 4-18 nozzles with a 3lm, 6th gear is about all that tractor wants, 7th is a push. Tractor B. is a 4000 deere (same rear as a 4010) with a 6466t out of an 8820 (factory P3000). Setup is stock pump maxed at 275-280cc, stock lines and injectors, and a s257sxe, 6th gear is fairly easy for this tractor and can hack 7th as well. $4000 in add ons vs just a $900 turbo to get the same or better results. So what did we just prove? There’s far better (and cost effective) options for an entry level class than a 3lm in any realm, also while I’m here, stock appearing pumps are another expensive barrier to entry for these lower level classes. But hey, I hate 3lms just because right? |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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good point
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Extremely well said El deero.........there is a lot of factual, common sense info contained in your comparisons there.
I have no dog in this fight, but I can speak to the 3LM466 vs S300 chargers. I helped out with a basically bone stock IH1066. Stock head, cam,and is still a true 414 engine. Pump is a maxed stock unit (not even an 11mm let alone 13 or 15) at less than 3000 rpm max. I think the injectors are from a 41/4366....not sure. It had a 3LM466 on it for years....ran pretty good. Swapped an S300 onto it for a trial and wow.....not even same tractor! Best $600 ever spent hands down. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
No one debates that a 300 will make better power. The entire purpose of their class is a starter class. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Say they ran 300s now, then everyone on here would be bitching about why not just run a 400. They are cheap and make better power! 3lm is where this group of guys collectively drew their line. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from bashing their rules. If you and 6 other guys showed up to one of their meetings and committed to running with them, but with a 300 I am sure that they would find a way to accommodate you. You guys don’t though, you all are just trying to give these guys a hard time for no apparent good reason that I can see. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Numbers
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How many tractors in American Farm pullers and Glenford classes? |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Farm pullers 3000 class has roughly 5-10 depending on the night. Glenford I’m not sure. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Attendance numbers
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Glenford group about the same. 5 to 10 depending on the pull and location. Zanesville seems to have a better draw. |
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Re: American farm pullers and Glenford lions club
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Zanesville also runs the light pro class and draws in good numbers with it as well. We normally go there and pull. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 09/24/2008 Posts: 176 |
We run a class similar to this in western New York , wnypfp its 466, stock 3lm , any pump 3000 rpm , 20.8 no cut of any kind , class is a true beginners class 10 tractors first year 14 the next and more coming . 10,000 lbs is easily the best weight ours guys require stock frames also wheelie bars , tie bars , kill switches , fuel dumps , blankets or steel shields over the flywheel. They made the rules with a little input from the board it it just works , competitive fun class for them ! Set rules for 3 yrs minimum so gives them time to build , drive them , learn them as pullers and to grow as a class , if they choose to move forward on power ie the s300 after a few yrs then they can do so as a well oiled group . Remember more power comes with consequences ie broken internal parts cost money too . Just my 2cents from a puller who’s seen a lot and pulling has a way of repeating itself ! So good luck and go for it ! |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Curious
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Why do some 3000 rpm tractors pull in 7th or even road gear and fry the tires off, and other pulls I've been to just barely seem to be able to run 6th gear? It appears to me not all 3000 rpm tractors are not on the same plane. Some seem to really scream while others seem to struggle? Just curious why such a big variance? I always thought if everyone was kept below 3000, that would keep it all close. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 437 |
Cubic inch and turbo size still makes a big difference |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Banker
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And the checkbook size determines those things...…………... |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 12/03/2013 Posts: 74 |
You are right. Limit classes are no different than open classes. They are "Cubic Dollar" classes! Money buys the best parts, machine shops, knowledge, mechanics, dynometer tunes all within "the limits" and that most often builds the winning tractors. Tractor pulling 101. Small percentage of tractor pullers out there that do all there own work on there own tractors. A lot of pocket pullers that sign the checks. I see this in all levels of motor sports and unfortunately not much can be done to beat the cubic dollar. WTW |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
At 3000 rpm I was running a 16.8 gear so it all depends on motor and money spent. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Curious
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How does the 16.8 gear compare to road gear? Thanks |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
Road gear with “fast” ring and pinion is 21:1. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Curious
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Wow! Then Zach is pulling nearly 5 gears over road gear!! What kind of cubes does it take to pull a gear like that? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
540 and a 3x3. But takes a ton of supporting parts to get there. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 270 |
Road gear with fast ring and pinion is around 17 to 1. Direct with 1566 r&p. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Great class and club but you need to police your rules . I’ve been to a lot of your pulls (spectator) and something is definitely up when there are 2 guys consistently putting 10 to 15 feet on the rest of the class (mainly RPM and turbo) !!! |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Confused
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Which club and where are you referring to? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Maybe
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RDH, Don't know where or what club you are speaking about? But maybe the 2 guys doing all the winning have done there homework, or maybe they are just better drivers? Who knows? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Maybe
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Also how do they check for rpm and turbos? Just wondering? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Rdh I have been one of those two top tractors and I can guarantee I am legal to the rules. Troy K has also been one of the guys at the top and I know he’s legal. Rpm is checked during every pass and anything over 3100 is out. I for one spent a lot of time money and research to achieve those results.
We attach a data logger to the tractor from the sled and monitor the rpm the entire pass. The turbo is slugged at the beginning of each season and randomly throughout the year. Cubic inch is currently on the honor system or was when I switched clubs. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Maybe
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Zach, why did you switch clubs? What are you pulling now? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Switched to central Ohio for a light pro stock class. Many reasons but we had planned to make the switch in 17 but stayed with farm pullers. We have a blast where we are now and just wanted to step up a class. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Ohio Moonshiner
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The Central Ohio Light Pro is going to have some new tractors this year. I heard there is 2 red ones (caseIH and IH) and Ford for this year. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
I know of one Ih. Hadn’t heard about the other two but that’s great. Great group to spend the summers with. Also enjoy having lots of tractors in a class. Make it a lot more fun. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Maybe
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Where do Central Ohio have their pulls? What are the turbo and cubic inch rules? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
All over central western and southern Ohio. Just a little of everywhere honestly. 540 cubes and 3.2x3.7 turbo. Ohiopull.com |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Thinking about it
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I thought about buying or building a tractor similar to what you described, But I was thinking about one with a 466 in it so I could maybe pull with other groups, Kentucy has several 466 classes and some classes have a 510 limit. But a 466 probably wouldn't compete very well against the bigger cube 540s? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Depends on how it’s built. RW can give some pointers as his runs very well! We have all sorts in the class. 466 to 540 and everywhere in between. Have a friend building a 466 now for the class and he also plans on going to Kentucky a few times. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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SuperD
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Actually you would be surprised how well the 510 would do against the 540’s at least in the Central Ohio class. There was one IH in the class running 510, he might still be 510. That tractor has had many wins under his belt. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Results?
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Just wondering how the 466s did against the bigger cube engines in Gordyville? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Wondering too
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I was wondering too, how the small cube tractors did in the mixed classes at Gordyville!
Seems like it would have been a pretty unfair advantage on a short track? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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This is all very interesting! I have a 1066 with 466 cube. I plan on running a 3000 rpm class. I have a 3" turbo with the tight housing.. I have a salenbien 3000 cam in it. I have a 525cc stock appearing pump with.093 lines. Where I plan on running they are now going to let p pumps run. I was worried that I won't have enough pump. By reading some of these posts it sounds like my pump and lines will still be competitive. Am I right to assume that!? Also where do I buy the rpm 3000 setup to plug into the sled? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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dj
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Have gone to watch these classes ? If not you better. An A- pump alone can put out 1200cc and a P-pump as much and more depending what you want to spend. I know that 600cc A will not compete with an 800cc pump with a 3" charger providing all else is the same. These 3000 rpm classes get as out of control as the rest. real quick. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Thanks Zach, I appreciate that. Always a pleasure to compete and visit with you at the pulls. It is a tall order to compete against the larger cube engines with a smaller cube engine, however you can certainly make a good showing provided you have all your ducks in a row and have plenty of luck on your side. There are some VERY GOOD running tractors in the Central Ohio Group, like Zach said, anything from smaller cube engines up to 540s and anywhere in between.As far as the 3000 rpm question from a couple posts up, depending on the competition in your area, you may or may not be able to hang with your competitors. I know in our area, you will be way behind with your current setup. Also just because you have a "P Pump", does not mean that you will be in the game either. Not all P pumps are created equal. Also, when it comes to the 3000 game, cubic inches play a big factor in the equation as well. There are many factors involved when putting together a combination that will work on any given setup or being able to compete against any given group or organization. Only you know what you are up against, I wish you well and hope you come up with the right combination to be successful in your quest to win against the guys you are pulling with. As for the rpm sensor, talk to Dennis at Fair Valley Performance. They stock these sensor kits.
Best Regards, RW Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2018 10:38AM by RW IH 1568. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Jay
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What kind of track speeds do these 3000 farm tractors see? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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22-25 mph/3200rpm Neb Bush, Ne Nebraska, or West Central Ia rules--box 3lm charger--466 cu.in. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
Generally speaking on a good track I have seen 33 mph top speed when I ran. Sometimes on tighter sleds it was 22-24 mph. Just depended on the track and sled. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Wow
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That's Amazing, I had no idea a 3000 rpm tractor could go that fast! Where do tractors like that pull at? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Deere watcher
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The tractors at Bellville Ohio and Loudenville Street fair go pretty fast. Not sure of exact speeds. Finks 6030 and another 5020 from south of there run really well. Have to be pushing 30. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Any Fords
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Are there any Fords, AC, or other brands that can run with the Bellville or Loudenville pulls at those speeds? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
The class I came from runs around southeastern Ohio and northern West Virginia. Class has a Massey that runs pretty healthy in it. Mostly binders and a couple Deere’s in that class. One case if they come back out. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Ford fan
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There was a couple good running Ford tractors from around the Warsaw area in Central Ohio. Not sure where they went? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Ohio Moonshiner
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Miller has a sharp New Holland, from Fairfield County. He did pull with Central Ohio. I heard he has a new motor in it. Then Kemp has a sharp Ford 9000 over in New Philly area. He will be out this year. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Just wondering
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Just curious if you pull Ohiomoonshiner? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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KDillon
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Kemp is not from philly,and his was out in 2018 ran twice and broke once. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Pull fan
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Does Kemp pull the 3000 rpm hot farm? It would be nice to see a blue one run. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Blue 96
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Kemp pulls in that a pump class with Wilkins far as I know |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Blue 96
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Still have my 9000 if someone wants to buy it |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Curious
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What class was your 9000 built for? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Blue 96
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3000 rpm pro farm in me ohio 330 897 0506 |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Just a fan
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Where could I go to watch these guys pull? |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Eastern Nebraska, Western Ia, and some Outlaw events this year might as well feature the Superfield class that run 466/box 3lm{Nebraska Bush Superfield rules} |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Here are the tentative pull dates for Glenford. Hope to see you there. Best luck and wishes to all competitors.
rw |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 260 |
You will not believe the difference in the tractor going from 525 cc to say 1000 cc. With the right turbo (GT42) and the right aftermarket parts in it and everything else built to work together that setup could put you in the 900-1000 hp range. All of this given you can run water or a cooler. The 525 cc you will prolly be around 5-600 if you are lucky. Injector size plays a huge roll in this as well. If you have more questions you are welcome to give me a call. Seven 4 zero 285649five.
Robert I always enjoy talking to you guys. Can’t wait for the season to come. Well ya I can, lots of work to be done. |
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Re: 3000 rpm class advice please
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
It will be here before you know it. We got our work cut out for us in the 3000 rpm class. Don't know if we will be able to catch the Big Block Deere? That tractor is a beast! Hats off to the Clouse stable. We have several other Deeres that are stepping up and bringing it on too! We definitely have our work cut out for us. Look forward to the competition and camaraderie this coming season. Wishing All a Blessed Christmas and New Year!
rw |
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