LLSS National Rules November 23, 2016 03:35PM
I no theres been a lot of talk of everyone wanting some kind of uniform rules for the LLSS class and its been said some group is working on that I'm just wondering who decides Its been boring on here until the Outlaw llss subject came up why don't everyone that pulls a llss give there views on here Start with the engine rules or something
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 12:08AM
First I would like to know if PPL, or NTPA or any other national group would pick this class up and how many pulls would there be?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 02:38AM
I've heard some about this too. It's seems like it would be MUCH easier for a national organization to pick up the class if the rules were already ironed out so it's the same everywhere. I can't see this class being booked with national points type of travel schedule. The large majority of the guys who have them already have to work to support their habit and need to be able to get to work a few days a week. It seems to work a lot better as a regional thing and then travel to play with another group for the few marquee events with better purses/ nicer venues. I can see a slightly rough transition period while the new rules are implemented, but the future is so bright, I can't imagine wanting to build for any other class.

The thing I'm drawn to, that made this sport so interesting during its early years, is seeing everyone trying to do things their own way. Every brand, every fuel and every generation represented. Oliver 88's and Farmall M's running against everything that came after them. The newest AGCO, Deere,and CNH tractors defending their place as being superior to era's of the past. Big budget teams running against grassroots low-budget underdogs. Even 24.5 vs 30.5 tires being a place to question what is superior on any given night. This truly is the class where everything we've ever loved about watching hot-rodded tractors shows up and comes to light. The fun in the next SEVERAL chapters comes from, what combination will be put together next and can someone actually prove that their chosen combination is best and dominant?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 06:20AM
LLSS in on the application for NTPA for 2017. WTPA added the class in 2016.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 02:17AM
I have heard talk of this too but haven't seen anything come of it. Unfortunately it will be up to each group to attempt to get there group to change to these rules. Now with that said I like this idea. A few years ago when we added this class in Nebraska we printed rules from all over the US and Canada, we looked at them and the commonalities and differences, and voted in what we felt was right. In the end we used basically the SCWTP rules with the option (with officer approval) to use a component chassis and we went with 6500# to try and eliminate the need for a lot of custom parts and machine work. To be fair I wanted to build a component but in the end didn't want to hurt the class so I am building an AG chassis so that rule may go away.

I do like these rules and I also think they are relatively fair. It appears to me that the alky's have been pretty dominate for the last few years and recently the diesels are starting to step up there game.

Chris Vanatta
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 06:10AM
Chris, who is your class rep or spoke person for your class and phone numbers. Or have them contact me 810 392 7123 or cell 810 300 0454 regarding national rules. Thanks.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 03:25PM
Ed - you can contact me (email is one my name and phone is 712.310.4434). I was the president of our group at the time this class was added and still help out the officers some during the transition. I am still currently building mine. We have a guy (Jerry Dollen) that has one tractor built and running and he just drug another chassis home last weekend. We also have a couple that pop in once or twice a year and a few other rumored to being built.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 12:21PM
What state did the llss class start in .?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 24, 2016 01:21PM
The class started in KY by the ORVTPA at the time I pulled in the Modified stock class wich was starting to fade out and some of us started talking about making this class I Was told by the presedent if I could get enough people together to commit to the class we would start it which I did That's why I'm so into this class it was started by average people with the intent to be a affordable class for the working man the original rules were close to what we have now except for a box 3by 4 turbo which at the time most of us were running a 4Lh or a 4lhr switzer no data loggers 24.5 tires and 5700 pounds no roller cams myself with a 570 cockshutt called the ROOSTER CRUISER Mike Jackson David Chappel Steve Meredith the hildebrands and a good friend of mine that passed Kendal Harlow and Tommy Stringer were the first .When it started a 28 and 30 to 1 gears was fast now they would be good for a antique class theres a little history of the class
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 25, 2016 10:35PM
Something I think is needed to entice more diesels, i don't like the 470 rule, but it's there in most of the other clubs rules. I don't what to see a 10 to 1 akly to diesels. Diesels needs intercooler to even compete with them , which adds weight. So then there's the weight ?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 25, 2016 11:24PM
lewis , thanks for the history of the llss class here in ky .what would your engine rule be? I understand that the weight needs to be no more then 6000#. I seen where you have said that ( we have already made a mistake here in ky letting the diesels run a LOT bigger turbo ) I would like to here how you purpose giving the diesels a chance vs the alky if they can not run a bigger turbo .do you thank it should be 370 alky 370 diesel 3inch smooth bore for both ?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 26, 2016 05:09PM
Well years ago it was thought that the diesles needed a extra 100 cubic inches but since the diesel truck classes has came along its showed that somebody had never done there home work I guarantee when someone calls up shied and tells them to send one of those 15 to 18 hundred horse little 6.7 cummins people will be sick and your looking at 60 more cubic inches than the Dodge boys have the front facing map needs to be bared and put back in its place and we don't need any 41/2 inch ex a lot of people in the class don't relize the alcohol tractors are now running a little 3 inch hx60 against a 4.1 limited pro hx82 with the slots in front of the wheal not underneath it and and Tim Hammon Ford was tough for anyone to handle he won several pulls while he was running the 3 inch and Allen and phillips did to it was 3 diesles against 27 Alcohols so how could it be expected for 3 against the world to win 50% of the pulls Little Angry Hawthorns and the diesel that pull in that area proves how 410 cubes with a 3 inch can run so whats the problem they don't want the big and they have little engines Smooth bores would be easier to police but I see no problems with the map but put back were it suppose to be if not you will se the class go like this a year or two the alkys will want more to catch back up maybe we need the class to cost a lot more money to push us few little guys that's left out But I guess we can just start a new class with the tractors that get stuck in the shed the 470 370 3 inch turbo has been in place since it started until this trial deal ,I have no say just an opinion and this ones mine hopefully no hard feelings I like everyone I pull with ever win so whoopdee doo and as for Marks question I cant remember David Chapel should no he was the presedent it was around the time Tom changed from the battle of the bluegrass to the ameracan tractor pullers
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 26, 2016 10:03PM
By the way Lewis, most of Wisconsin's llss class all run 410 with intercooler with 3/4 smooth bore charger
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 02:05AM
Lewis....West Central IL and East Central Missouri had this class in 1989..Atleast thats when we started pulling with them.I thought they were the first that had these rules..Doesn't matter much but just looking at the history
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 03:46AM
Well Mark you could be right we didn't have these computers to keep up with every thing that happened back then anyway after ky showed so much interest it really took off. But we did have the 5500 super farm class that was similar except it was gas or diesel did they run alcohol and I may have done a little overstepping since your group is all diesel some of you guys may want the big turbo every class always wants to give something to try equal things up the only thing that was ever created equel was man .But has anybody ever thought of the little guy that cant afford the Columbus or Harts charger or what ever is the latest and greatest maybe they need more cubic inches or a bigger turbo if there running a box bone stock charger or not weld the map up
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 04:47AM
A 3 in and 4 out is a big enough charger for this class. Whether you run the smooth or map grooves should be talked about more. But the diesels need the intercooler at 410 to keep up with the aklys.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 10:43AM
David I agree no one hear has ever tried the 410 deal I just fired up my new engine today now ive got to start looking for some weights this dt 360 looks real small compared to the old dt361 1206 engine
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 26, 2016 12:49AM
Hey Lewis what year did the start of LLSS happen?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 10:34AM
A lot different sets of rules for the LLSS across the country.If you combine most of the cubic inches used in LLSS rules, the following set would catch almost every association.

Diesel Engine
470 - Single turbo , No Intercoolers and /or Aftercoolers
410 - Single turbo , Intercoolered and /or Aftercoolered
360 - Twin turbo , No Intercoolers and /or Aftercoolers
315 - Twin turbo , Intercoolered and /or Aftercoolered
Alcohol Engine
370 - Single turbo , No Intercoolers and /or Aftercoolers

But a 3" inch smooth bore is the real limiting factor and a great equalizer.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 10:56AM
It would probably work except for the 470 guys not enough air to let them extra cubes breath
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 27, 2016 11:42AM
Haven't they been running 470's with a 3" charger for awhile now? 3" turbo will work for 470 cubes, isn't that what Light Limited Pro Stock rules are? But that is why it is a great equalizer.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 12:41AM
Now the diesels that run intercooler is weight, your adding more due to the cooler, pumps, ice . So that add about 75-100#. So the weight needs to be around 6250 . Not 6000 if you want more diesels in the class
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 07:06AM
Well the 470 cube engines in most cases are probably 250 pounds hevier and 400 pounds more than a 6.7 cummins I just lost 300 going from a dt361 to a dt360 and that is what a lot of ih guys use to get 410 the 361 and 407 weighs a little more than the dt466 and I still carried 10 75s at 6000 and I have no alluminium parts and a 6 inch channel frame so really that radiators not going to be that much more weight and I'm sure it will be mounted in the front SS was 5500 I'm sure these old 50 year old tractors every bodys is using has lost a little weight from rust gee the 1st place bob tractor was a real d21 and the first place ktpa was a 1100 mf what are you guys starting with 4640 john dears or something if so just add a class Limited heavy super stock
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 09:54AM
See, this is why the discussions usually go south when it comes to this class and you lewis. It's clearly all about what works for you and too bad for everyone else.

The point David is making is that there are situations where the weight is very tight, and the intercooler is almost the tipping point. A 404 in a 4020 is going to be damn dicey with an intercooler unless you make every possible component out of aluminum, and shaving some cast, drill the axles, maybe narrow the axle housings......you see where this is going. It would be a lot easier to add 250 or so pounds to make it happen. I can't imagine an IH 466 in a 706 chassis is any fun to hit
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 01:36PM
Yes it would be easier to add 250 or 1000 And I'm not thinking of myself I am thinking of the class as a whole I have no problem with 6250 but you will see weight is the best equalizer but maybe I think wrong if its dog eat dog all or nothing I am I took it that the class wants to keep growing you just give the guy with the new heavy parks pullers or 2000s the extra weight and just se what happens weve already had people try give them more weight several tractors would get parked because every one cant afford them and with no numbers in the class nobody pulls and go back and look at the weight the Gettengers pulled up n atom it was a light ss ag rear if everyone just wants to add the role cage and the big hp make it 7500 lbs the 3pt hitch would be handy and there would be no work to it we could even keep the power steering ive done said to much on all the topics we cant even set the rules in ky we have a thing or two that needs changed and people would but they don't want to hurt nobodies feelings Mitchel Coomer was a good friend of mine and he said he liked me because if I had anything to say I would say it to his face ive been speaking for a lot of people that don't want to be known not just myself and a lot of people even from different areas has called and told me to hang in there keep making it high dollar and it will fade away like the rest
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:10PM
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lewis
Yes it would be easier to add 250 or 1000 And I'm not thinking of myself I am thinking of the class as a whole I have no problem with 6250 but you will see weight is the best equalizer but maybe I think wrong if its dog eat dog all or nothing I am I took it that the class wants to keep growing you just give the guy with the new heavy parks pullers or 2000s the extra weight and just se what happens weve already had people try give them more weight several tractors would get parked because every one cant afford them and with no numbers in the class nobody pulls and go back and look at the weight the Gettengers pulled up n atom it was a light ss ag rear if everyone just wants to add the role cage and the big hp make it 7500 lbs the 3pt hitch would be handy and there would be no work to it we could even keep the power steering ive done said to much on all the topics we cant even set the rules in ky we have a thing or two that needs changed and people would but they don't want to hurt nobodies feelings Mitchel Coomer was a good friend of mine and he said he liked me because if I had anything to say I would say it to his face ive been speaking for a lot of people that don't want to be known not just myself and a lot of people even from different areas has called and told me to hang in there keep making it high dollar and it will fade away like the rest

Lewis, where is the LIKE button for your post? But I will disagree that you have said too much. You have spoke the truth that many don't want to see.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:24PM
Thanks I am the self proclaimed spokes person for the under 15 dollar an hour working man that loves pulling and hopes to have rules that would compare Aples to Aples instead of dollar for dollar
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:27PM
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lewis
Thanks I am the self proclaimed spokes person for the under 15 dollar an hour working man that loves pulling and hopes to have rules that would compare Aples to Aples instead of dollar for dollar

Like Smiling
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:39PM
Lewis, in my 23 years of pulling, I have never asked for more weight. And for anyone that wants more weight in a class that they want to pull in, then they need to go to a different class.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:54PM
I am having a hard time following your post's. I know I do not read very good so could you use a period and a capital letter when you write?

What do you think needs changing in your club?

Could you please tell us how you would set up a national level rules as it pertains to engine size and turbo/ s?VG
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 03:24PM
Sorry I cant even follow myself, ive been out of school to long
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 02:59PM
Big money will ruin this class too. Be careful what you wish for. I agree with Lewis . 6250 is a good compromise on weight and also believe 3x4 charger is big enough and with the slots where they belong no other bs. Slots. Most turbos come with slots so should be allowed. We ran these rules at Langford this year and had a real good class with several of these proposed rules type tractors in the pull off that day so it works. If you choose to run the bigger diesel motor and gain weight that is a choice why should they get a bigger charger too ? Have seen dyno sheets of a 466 with 3x3 making well over 1000hp and have heard of 466 3x4 making 1350 so what's the problem with the 3x4. Would venture a guess that most in the LLSS class fall between 1000-1500 hp. With the majority falling in the middle somewhere. Do believe it is ok for clubs to vary a little for the sake of there own situations but for the National class we need to be the same for all those events. Just an opinion by a fellow puller.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 04:15PM
This is really amusing but I still think that wt has to be the ultimate equalizer, my own posterior could use more wt but if my antique can get in the 3500 then my llss should have no problem getting in the 6000.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 28, 2016 09:59PM
I realize that the weight is an issue. But will you be able to find light ag tires in five years or will they not be available any more. But for national rules, everyone that has rules all rules need to be looked at . And not everyone will like them.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 03:20AM
Lewis, you are a good spokesman for the class, maybe not the best at spelling or punctuation, but I'm not the grammar police.
As for the LLSS class, I would not have an issue with 5800-6250, but 6250 is not something I would prefer.
Now as far as the diesel and alcohol saga, numbers don’t lie, 28% of the B.O.B. point tractors are diesel (that’s if Smokin Farmall is a diesel), and they won 61% of the pulls.
I would say that B.O.B. or any other organization should look at this and make a turbo adjustment.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 03:39AM
Good to see discussion about this. It would be nice to see some uniformity in the class across the country so that anyone could pull anywhere they wished in the country where the class is offered. I think the class is best at 6000 and should be 6250 max. Keep it up guys, Lewis I can read you just fine, keep on offering comments. It is my favorite regional class with a bunch of good pullers in it.


Bryan Lively -

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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 10:57AM
Thanks ive been pulling for 30 years wich is not that long but its not hard to see the direction the class is taking ive built 3 tractors from scratch for this class with nothing but a grinder .welder,torches and a band saw making the weight should be no problem for anybody to make for any brand out there at 6000 and yes if you choose to go with a 1175 case istead of a 730 you could have trouble and if your a big 350 or 400 pound man don't hold that against us for wanting it to be 6000 its not your tractors fault . And as far as the tires nobody,said it was agg tires only or at least yet and as of now all these old combines with the 30.5 tires are starting to get old enough to start making it to the salvage yard pluss we can worrie about that in 5 years when theyre gone if that happens Bsides that if we don't get this 3.6 or 4,1 turbo problem fixed we have here in KY you guys will get to buy a lot of these 6000 pound alcohoul tractors that's already built in a year or two the this catch back up with that game don't work 3x4 is big enough and if a map is used put it back were they go a good orik vacuum cleaner has big fins In behind the little hole you plug your hose into for a reason and it sucks in one side and blows it out the other
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 09:07AM
I know this ship sailed long ago, but I've wondered for a few years now why it wasn't limited to 18.4 tire. Much more likely to find a set for a couple hundred bucks before sharpening, light weight steel rims are easier to make, gets rid of weight in the right spot, makes a enclosed hauler a bit easier to deal with, and (for now) the "high performance" tire advantage is not a issue.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 09:39AM
24.5 tires were put in to make them look like pulling tractors.

Same with superfarm.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 10:57AM
Might as well required polished aluminum rims and fancy paint jobs if we're making rules that essentially cost money to look good.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 11:18AM
sfd 823 when this class dies and we start it over again with a new name that should be looked at real hard let the big boys blow the tires off and a little have the horse tractor come in and smoke em if the class is kept light I have won the SS class on junk tracks with a modified stock tractor with 18,4s But that was back in the days were 4010 johns were running the 5500 ss
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 11:34AM
No way 18.4's would handle this class
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 11:53AM
alcohols supers have 30's with 4 times the power. I would bet 18.4's would make them easier to drive.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 11:55AM
All they would do is spin
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 12:18PM
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AAR
All they would do is spin

Based on my own personal experience and that of some of my customers driving 1000-1300 hp at 6500, no.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 12:25PM
These comments are the reasons there will be hard to get national rules. My dog is bigger than you dog
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 12:50PM
lewis.I know there was a class meeting in shelbyville what 3 or 4 weeks ago ? and the turbo rule was the main reason for the meeting ? if so was it voted on ? you seem to know all about the turbo thats being run on these diesels but if there was a meeting why wasn't it voted on ?and if it was are they in or out ?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 02:26PM
Okay I will answer your question there was a meeting and it wasn't voted on because the rules of KTPA say you have to make 60 percent of the pulls to have voting rights well there were only 5 and only two showed up which they could have done whatever they wanted because it was official but didn't it was discussed NOW theve been made out to be the bad guy for speaking out for the best interest of the class and not self they could have voted it but what would that look like the 1st and 2nd place points champions voteing the turbo out they had done took a lot of crap over the tubs in the olivers .You no the little tub issue was a bigger deal than the 200 more horses the turbo makes well they put the tub back in. And by the way this is a heavy 1800 oliver with a heavy destroked 478 Hercules pulling 6000 and then took the junk 354 perkins with the sorriest head ever put on a engine and put it in in a big heavy 1100 mf and won 1st and second so now they don't no what to do so really this needs to go in front of the ktpa board of directors and decided nobody in the class wants to hurt anybodys feelings Mitchell Coomer didn't matter nobody had bonded with him he came strait out of the box winning every pull then we took his double decker head plates and had to clarify more rules because he was great to find the grey areas gray areas like this front facing map or the 41/2 inch ex or making a 4.1 into a 3 inch--it was put in place for trial and it has really proved it point this year now lets give the alkys a 3,4 to catch back up the 27 cant keep up with 3-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: LLSS National Rules December 01, 2016 01:58PM
lewis if you thank them diesels are running a 4.1 then you get you one and make it a 3 inch .
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 12:36PM
I think the tire size is a safety issue
If they run 18.4s, half the tractors or more would most likely be on they're side
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 12:49PM
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1
I think the tire size is a safety issue
If they run 18.4s, half the tractors or more would most likely be on they're side

I don't honestly think that would be a issue. I think they would be easier to control and go straighter with the smaller tire.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 01:02PM
Really the 18.4s don't work its done been tried and no they wont be on there side they just wont go any were just dig a ditch on a six hundred horse tractor at 6000 they would be fine but not a 1000 to 14000 horse tractor the 6 hundred woul smoke them every time that's why the light weight has been stressed so much .
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 01:15PM
Right on Lewis
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 01:58PM
Sounds like you guys pull on tracks that can't support HP. Pull on some real clay and you'll find an 18.4 or 20.8 is lots of tire. Lewis being the ultimate hater of puller tires, I would think you'd be all over that.

There are tractor classes in some northern states that run a 466 at somewhere around 8-9000 pounds and run on max 20.8 tire........and they are in the same HP bracket, possibly more.

Sounds to me like tire size would be the true equalizer in this class, not weight.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 02:58PM
I never said I hated puller tires I have a set I love them and wish everbody could have them I just no how much the extra weight helps them so you can keep the front end down an keep control and I no a lot of us are a couple 100 horse less than the top dogs so WHO BENNIFITS FROM THE EXTRA WEIGHT and DU didn't you just say same hp and 8 or 9 thousand pounds big diference I will pull my llss against either one of chezecs super stocks rules are 5500 18.4 tires no detuning go or blow anytime any place and bet you one of those big cube antique molines can beat us bothe and probably a big cube M FARMAL
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 29, 2016 09:29PM
Really Lewis, you would beat Chizec's tractors?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:05AM
On 18.4 x 38 tires and 5500 lbs, maybe.... I would pay to see it for sure. Cool
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:07AM
Lol David he said if you put him and chizek on 18.4's an antique would probably beat them both Winking
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:31AM
Ok Lewis, here you go your old tractor with 18.4's on it.
What a good look, this sure will get the fans in the stands excited.
#no18.4onllss


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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:50AM
Well guys, your in luck for those of you who follow South Central LLSS rules it states 18.4x38 minimum tire size. The BOB rules states no minimum tire size. So for those on here with tractors who want to show us go for it.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 01:05AM
Not taking anything away, why did ky diesels need a 4.1 charger and Bob at 3.6 . If most of us 410 intercooler can complete with SCWTP 360 aklys with a 3 by 4 . Why more charger . I know its the weight issue , its the equalizer
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 05:32AM
David - Did you just say most of the 410 BSTP tractors can complete with the SCWTP 360 alky tractors? I didn't think we would ever hear or see you speak those words. I guess I don't see the harm then in you guys letting alkys pull with you at 6500lbs. Just had to put that out there.
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 06:49AM
There is always talk about making are class better. So are meeting and banquet is this weekend. I am sure it will be discussed. No guarantees
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 01:09AM
.


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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 01:57AM
Yeah but wouldnt Chisek just put a 10:1 or some crazy fast gear in it and still beat the crap out of you?
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 02:09AM
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LSS Puller
Yeah but wouldnt Chisek just put a 10:1 or some crazy fast gear in it and still beat the crap out of you?

Congrats you are the winner of completely missing the point
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 02:23AM
What is the point
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 03:54AM
Set it up for for the farm show theres still plenty of time to draw a croud whatever tractor is the hottest 5500 antique brig them that tractor will be your winner I will be second any one that lets off the throttle is measured at that distance that the equalizer rules
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 11:38AM
4.1 i keep hearing 4.1 who is running a 4.1 charger ? somebody has done blown this way out of proportion !!!!!
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:13PM
You pull in the class you no alkys have a 3 inch limit what does that leave go to bob 6000 llss rules read them. It will tell you who gets a 3 and who gets a 3.6 and who can take a 4.1 and make it into a 3,6 I'm getting a headache
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 12:55PM
lewis . take a deep breath you are getting all worked up again ! I looked at the rules i didnt see any thing about a 4.1 all it said was 3.6 smooth bore or 3inch maf enhancement .
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 02:09PM
Well now did it say you couldn't take a 4,1 and make it into a 3.6 or even move the map in front of the compressor wheal and place it in a up and down position and make it a 3 inch by placing a 300 thousand ring in front of the wheal a 1/8 inch is 120 thousands 4 inches is 1044 take away that 300 thousands whats left does the rules say alcohols can run the 3inch with the map or the 3.6 smooth bore no its 3 inch smooth bore only so are you still with me if so let me go futher .OKAY alcohols cant run them smokers can and theres not many so can you take it from here .I'm glad my name is really not Lewis I should have called myself the Joker
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 02:33PM
You lost me lewis with all them precision measurements Im sorry i brought it up shu wee!!
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 02:22PM
Will someone please make it stop!!
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 01:57PM
Maybe someone should try dual 13.6 tires
That would still be under the 30.5 limit
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Re: LLSS National Rules November 30, 2016 04:22AM
Quote
ed shoobridge
Well guys, your in luck for those of you who follow South Central LLSS rules it states 18.4x38 minimum tire size. The BOB rules states no minimum tire size. So for those on here with tractors who want to show us go for it.

I'd be up for that, except our rules state 23.1X34 minimum.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! November 30, 2016 05:04PM
It appears like there is just a handful of the same people talking about the LLSS. There is a lot of pullers in this class and many of which are not speaking up. So I thought it might be interesting to take a few of the most discussed topics and put it to a vote. I have created a survey for people to take and we can review the results to see what the majority actually thinks. Here is a link to the Survey
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! November 30, 2016 10:48PM
When Badger State first adopted the llss rules , engine , clutch and rear all had to match. So an ih 686 with a 312 couldn't put a 460 or 560 rear end to save weight. So this is partly why the weight is 6500 . So to all that think 6000 is easy to get to , it's not. And with are tracks some nights biting hard i like the extra . If 6000 works for ky and others great , it might not for others. And allowing aklys in , there is always discussion. And is there tractors in Wisconsin that would support badger state for the season?
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 12:53AM
So riddle me this, how is it guys can get a 560 with a 414 down to 6000kbs or a d21, 4010 JD but since you guys had to run matching engine/rear combos it couldn't be done? It really comes down to one thing and that's if you want to get your tractor lite enough for a lite class. Some do some don't. But this pissing match on here is getting ridiculous. I'd suggest anyone building a new light limited to build it light enough to get into a 6000 pound class and then you can run wherever you want .
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 01:02AM
Which rules are you building for? If I took the intercooler off an put 30.5s on and run a dry block i could easily make 6000 . So what charger you going to give me at 410 to keep up
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 02:05AM
To the original question about National Rules. There are so many different state rules for this LLSS class, Western New York, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, Indiana and Kentucky. Most have the same engine rules, but all run different weights. So why is 6000 a choice weight ? only mostly in Kentucky. A lot of the others are 6400 and few 6500 , a 6700 . We need a common weight in a National Class, because a lot of tractors that are build for there state rules might not make weight for a National Rule.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 03:51AM
David, based on recent conversations with the following organizations the following are changing to or are already are at 6250#s: Western NY, Ohio, SCwisc, East side of Mich, and W Mich considering. When I do the travel series for the last 2 years, promotors ask how to get tractors in this class?. My suggestion is 6250 based on Gordyvilles sucess with the class. The boys from Ky will put 250#s on their tractors but NOT 500's and I have had a number of Ky pullers that have attended NY, Mich and Canada as well as Wisc. Just my thoughts and experience.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 05:51AM
Ed, I am not asking it to be 6500 for a National rule. 6250 is good , because if take a go to some of these pull that you promote, I want to know what were pulling at. If state club wants a different weight ,so be it . I want all the LLSS pullers to be able to pull on a National Circuit
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 02:12AM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
When Badger State first adopted the llss rules , engine , clutch and rear all had to match. So an ih 686 with a 312 couldn't put a 460 or 560 rear end to save weight. So this is partly why the weight is 6500 . So to all that think 6000 is easy to get to , it's not. And with are tracks some nights biting hard i like the extra . If 6000 works for ky and others great , it might not for others. And allowing aklys in , there is always discussion. And is there tractors in Wisconsin that would support badger state for the season?

How did Jim Eckenrod and Kenny Sanders ever make the 5500 Super Stock class?
Greg
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 02:22AM
What year? did they have roll cages ? If I remember as a kid a lot pulled at that weight, then safety equipment was implement .
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 04:17AM
I pulled against Jim several times in 1997. While neither Jim nor Kenny had roll cages, the class was still 5500 until the accident at Tomah. If you ad 250# for a cage, you can still add 250# on the nose.

In my opinion, the weight issue has become more of an issue of "my current tractor". I have pulled against or have seen several tractors that pulled lighter than I thought possible. Dennis Johnson had an AC D21 on alcohol at 5500#, Bill Williams John Deere 4010 at 5200#, and currently Ulmer's 7140 at 6200# are a few that come to mind.

Greg
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 06:28AM
I'm sure I can make mine weigh 5000.......but it won't likely be safe. Anyone can "make it light", but compromised safety, combined with the $$ associated with aluminum custom one off parts does not make sense (may as well build component.....I know, I know....shut up).

I'll shoot for an org that is at 6250 minumum. I don't see the 250 as a deal breaker.

"Ulmer's 7140 at 6200#"............so what model is that exactly, cuz it's sure as hell not a 7140 chassis?

But as you say, nearly everyone else in the world has made a 12000 pound tractor weigh 5000, so carry on......

.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 08:29AM
I believe its a 706 rearend and a 400 series engine.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 08:31AM
It's a 06-66 chassis.

Please understand my intentions aren't to make anyone mad, I just want you guys to realize what can and will eventually be done. I have seen Ulmer's tractor make several runs, including a couple of wild rides. Even though they have taking the lightening process to the extreme, it hasn't proven itself unsafe.

Greg

[www.ulmerpulling.com]

video: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 04, 2016 03:17AM
To me the light limited should be 5500 or 5700 pounds with the diesels having 20 inches of hitch and alcohol having 19 inches. Make it a drivers class not a money class. It would be nice if the common person could go tractor pulling again. But money seems to out weigh common sense.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 04, 2016 04:07AM
Well if we all can get our engine rules the same that would be a great start we can all add or take weight off and I do agree, But to many don't at least people are trying to split the difference
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 06:55AM
I'm with greg on this.there never was a issue till the 466 series came to the lt class.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 08:23AM
I think 6250 is good weight. 6000 would be fine if scales are correct but I have see scales off as much as 500 lbs. when weight a 10,000 lbs. pro farm tractor. Just my $0.02
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 01, 2016 08:51AM
That was a nice survey 6200 or 6250 should have been on there because it sounds like that's becoming a happy medium although that's not what I would want But its got to be started somewere and it needs to satisfy the majorty not just the few including myself this will at least give new clubs to have rules to build by and they would no if they started and had something totally of the wall theyre stuck with it and no were else to go but theyre own backyard and if I were building a new tractor for the 6 ,62 or the 6500 I would go the extra mile and work to make it as light as possible but safe enough I wouldn't be afraid to startle the gear @#$%&
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 05, 2016 01:05PM
so in ky was there any rules that has been changed
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 05, 2016 01:14PM
Not yet were waiting on the National rules to come out it seems a lot is wanting to adopt the engine rules wich would be nice its easy to add or subtract a couple of weigts
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 05, 2016 10:22PM
Who is in charge of writing the National Rules?
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 06, 2016 03:26AM
Should contact Ed Shoobridge David


Eric Prewitt
The Prewitt Pulling Team
Public Relations for
The Pulling Radio Network
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 06, 2016 11:31AM
Thanks Eric. Yes there is a combined effort to standardize the rules or have a LLSS National set of rules. This effort is not all me. I was asked if I would consider to be involved. I think everybody agrees a standard set of rules is in the best interest of the class. At this time I will tell you Western NY, Ohio, Eastern Mich, Western Mich, Wisc, and Ky are involved. Others are willing to see what we come up with and they are from Ontario Canada, Tenn, Nebraska, Texas and Idaho. All involved represent this class in their area and it is understood that they are representing this class and the best interest of this class not their tractor or mine, but whats best for the class. Also consideration is given to years down the road if a national organization picks this class up what will be required? Much thought and time has been put in this so far and all involved have been a great help. Based on some of the posts above I thought it was time to let everybody know something is happening and hope to have finalized by Gordyville. A rough draft is being proof read and will be circulated to the above for approval and concurrence possibly next week. Nothing will be published until complete. Many individual phone calls and Saturday conference calls have taken place to accomplish this.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 06, 2016 01:36PM
Ed,

We had our SWOTPA rule meeting this past Sunday, and no change in our light class as yet, but an agreement was made that we are pushing towards LLSS. It can be "created" anytime we choose. It would be good to see a set of common rules and try and shoot for that.
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Re: LLSS National Rules !! SURVEY !! December 06, 2016 03:06PM
Weight and turbo seem to be two highly discussed rules. What other rules are different that need decided on?
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