Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 03, 2016 10:06PM
360 aklys will be added to are class. 3 by 4 smooth bore charger. More rules will be up on website in a few weeks
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 01:11AM
I hope that is a misprint,360cubes,about all llss alcohols are 370 cubes,except for the international 460s.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 01:38AM
Sorry was a misprint, 370
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 01:48AM
I unofficially heard the SCW rules were adapted! If that is true? Good for Badger State.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 02:38AM
We hope it is Ed, just hope there's enough tractors in the area to support all season .
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 04:52AM
6500 heads up?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 05:33AM
The rules approved by the board is, 370 cubes , 3by 4 smooth bore, no electric enhancements, OEM conformity, 30.5 tires and 6250 # .
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 08:55AM
This is fantastic! Very happy to hear this. Thank you for sharing David.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 09:01AM
Newalcoholic are u gong to be out this year?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 09:37AM
Cummins OK to run
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 02:44PM
God willing I will be! I figure I need his help to get all my parts here on time!!!
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 09:45AM
Are 30.5 tires going to be allowed. Thanks
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 10:12AM
I thought it was a topnotch class.

What next? Alky prostocks?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 04, 2016 11:07AM
Yes-on the alky only.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 05, 2016 06:45AM
That is good to hear. Now will Eastern IA follow suit?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 05, 2016 01:15PM
Ha ha ha ha. There is no way you typed that with a straight face. Those rules will never happen there because an outsider could come in and be competitive.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 05, 2016 01:22PM
I wish they would let 360 cube twin charger into this class some how. I have seen a few post of others liking that idea to.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 05, 2016 10:17PM
Looks to me like the OEM rule has Cummins and De-cubed motors on sidelines watching.Does SWWI allow 400 series in 656 trans/rearends?If so,willBadger State?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 05, 2016 11:37PM
We had the decubing rules passed as well. So 400 series can go in 656 rear. As for Cummins , has to be approved by are board . The board wants OEM conformity
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 12:53AM
To me it would only make sense that Badger State/ PPL would adapt the new rules that the group of LLSS tractor pullers are putting together for a National set of rules. That is the purpose of a common set of rules so LLSS pullers can pull anywhere without a hassle. What I have heard they are close to finalizing. Congratulations to them for getting it done!!!That allows clubs the opportunity to gain more Pullers at events when everyone fits the same rules. So if Badger State/PPL's interest is to gain tractors and make a statement for 2017 that is my suggestion otherwise stay they way they and let the rest of the clubs grow together.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 02:23AM
Badger State rules are set in December at the banquet. So the rules that were set are what we run . So if something needs changing , will not happen until the banquet after the 2017 season.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 04:32AM
So tell me more, what leaks. You all complained we didn't have Alcohol Tractors, we added them . And now you what more ? Really
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:13AM
Alcohol is good! Gives diversity to a diesel only club. Gives the crowd a show! I liked Midwest LLSS Puller's post all LLSS having same rules so everyone can pull anywhere. More fun with numbers. My question to you Dave is Badger State in 2017 having Alcohol and Diesel all at 6250#, can run either 24.5 or 30 tires. Same rules like BOB & SCWTP, etc.. The way I read it seems like you are writing in some rules keeping some LLSS tractors out that are pulling with other clubs already. I thought you needed more tractor numbers. Clarify. Thanks
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:23AM
What is wrong with the scwtp rules? U get to run a slotted cover! Would you rather run a 3.6 charger instead? You and your posse of heavy llss need to do a lil work on your tractors and lighten them up and let the class grow because you have ruined this class for to long ! Take your antiques and go pull with the rest of the heavy tractors in Iowa
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:28AM
So what would a Cummins be able to run in?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:28AM
I think some of you need to calm down. I know in the past I have criticized BSTP myself for not allowing the alcohol tractors in. Now they have added them to the mix, and are giving them a shot. At least they are moving forward. It may not be the way some think it should be but at least they have listened and made a step in the write direction. Now yes there are national rules being formed, but they are not out yet. BSTP can always adopt these next year at there banquet if they so choose. Also how many of you guys that are complaining about it are going to go and pull with BSTP?? My guess not to many. There are a few in the state of Wisconsin that I believe will go play with them at maybe all or some of the pulls. Myself I will not as I am already committed to two Organizations. If I had more time, and more money then I defiantly would.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:43AM
The diesels weight will 6500# and aklys at 6250# all will run smooth bore 3 by 4 chargers. That's what we are trying for the 2017 season . If it dont work we will change for the betterment of the class . Second are class never had a 3.6 charger rule
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 08:26AM
We should all figure out what rules are the same and what rules are different. There's other things to worry about. Some associations allow recast heads, does everybody adapt that rule? Some places allow 360 cubes with twins, does everyone adapt that rule also? Some say no V8's others don't.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:34AM
Let me tell you something being president of a club is the most thankless job, if you want anymore insight on that my contact information is in my profile. Sometime guys you gotta live and let live and let evolution take care of itself.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:47AM
Diesel will be 6500# and aklys at 6250# all with smooth bore 3 by 4 charger. We are trying this for the 2017 season, if it dont work it will be changing. Secondly are class never had a 3.6 charger rule
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 05:53AM
Well maybe gordyville should run the diesels at 6500 with smooth bore and run the alkys at 6250 and see how fair the rules really are. to me diesels weight is to much of advantage
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 06:07AM
Question , how many plan on running Badger State? I see so many complaints how this and that's not fair. How many have tried the weight difference? Let's keep in mind that we are trying this with no difference in chargers.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 06:09AM
I really don't attack other people, but thanks anyway
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 07:30AM
To sinking ship, Missouri and Western New York have weight difference between certain engine cubes and tire size. Look at there rules
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 07:56AM
Sinking ship.....whoever you are......That was really uncalled for.

I am glad I am a member of a club that is participating in developing the national rules. From what our representative from our club tells us, things are going well with the rules.

Just so you know, over the last two years Deutzilla has participated in LLSS pulls in Ohio, Canada, Mich and Wis. My team looks forward to the new national rules


John Voelpel
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 09:43AM
What organization will be going with the national rules when they get proposed .I think it a good thing but theres going to be things in there that different areas is not going to like so what then at least Badger state has made the attempt
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 10:30AM
Since we're a state member with PPL. What happens if they like what they see and adopt there own rules? Where will the National Rules stand?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 12:25PM
That's the whole idea of getting these rules put together ppl ntpa or none of the other national organizations are stuck in one place they go every were so if theryre smart which they are theyre not going to go with Badger State rules or KTPA if they have the odd ball set of rules in other words would you take the 6000 alcohol 6500 diesel if every one else across the country pulls 6200
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 01:53PM
Owning tractors of both fuels , I am happy the powers to be at BSTP have passed this vote , and its really not that hard to figure out ,,, Sinking Ship ,, do you have a real name ? atleast david puts his real name down ,,, and if any of this thread twists up ypur panties ??? John R. Anderson 608 558 5590 ok back 2 it ,,, the BSTP tractors alredy run smooth bore at 6500,,, that's fine and equal to 6250 with a slot ,,, its just like a 250 # handy capp for running a slotted cover or vice versa ,, all I kno is team angry will be paying 2 BSTP memberships in march
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 02:15PM
Alkys don't get a slotted. Both are smooth covers...
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 03:41PM
no @#$%&
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 03:44PM
once again a no name keeborder ,,, don't fuckin worry bout me I kno the rules and just fuckin said I agree
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 03:57PM
2 fuckin things that piss me off our people that don't kno @#$%& about a subject and fuckin people that cant do simple math ,,,,, alkys r always smooth or should b ,,,, BOB, KTPA, SCWTP< alkys smooth, but 4 any diesel 2 compete at a said weight a slot is @#$%& near nesesarry. not a fuckin 3.6 just s simple slot levels the playing field ,,,, simple .... but if tractors r to heavy or said pullers do not have a slotted cover then 250 #s is a equalizer ,,, is that, that fuckin hard 2 understand ?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 04:09PM
its a lot like the amazing miss conception that a 30.5 tire is so fuckin scarey ,,, they r a weight choice , and generally cheaper than the all mighty 24.5 pulle, if your fuckin finial ratio matches your width and tread depth either will work ,,, or maybe all fuckin classes should b like super farm , BSTP 466 class and nascar , were every thing is fuckin identical and money wins ,,,, Damm pullers r dumb most of the time
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 11:12PM
I'm pretty sure the diesel rules are the same as they have been for 25 years. The new alcohol rules are 6250 370 smooth 3x4 24.5s or 30.5s. Before you bitch about the rules again there are plenty of places to pull if your not completely happy.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 10:24PM
National Rules are fine. But don't expect clubs to change there rules just because there's work for them
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 10:44PM
Is Badger State adding the 470 cube diesel to their 410 intercooled class? Anyone can run 24's or 30's correct?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 06, 2016 11:26PM
No on the 470 cubes. As for the tires, we would like if everyone run 24.5s , but are letting the aklys run 30.5 because of the weight difference
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 10:15AM
Just thinking, did you guys forget that your in a SUPER STOCK class not antique or hot farm ?? Safety is always #1 so I see the point in Cobb jobs -not wanted- But if it's done properly and passes tech the only problem is the cry baby that don't like competition .
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 01:14AM
David any more clarification on this "The board wants OEM conformity" were does that leave the Cummins powered tractors?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 01:22AM
If you want a Cummins. You will have to get board approval. Cummins may fit everything, but is not factory replacement for some brands of tractors. I think white is the only one
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 01:44AM
I would think It's legal for a Case, That's what the 5.9 was made for.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 10:48AM
The first tractor to have a 5.9 was a 100 white now just about all of the major brands are using a cummins engine you will se some new JDs at the farm show this year cummins powered Papa John remind me at Murfreesboro to give you some of my medication Anger management classes was a waste of time for me to
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 11:19AM
Case 1896-2096 predate the White 100 by two years according to Tractordata.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 11:27AM
The 5.9 Cummins was designed for the 18-2096 tractors. Then used in White and Dodge.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 01:59PM
You no I never thought of that one during that time I worked at a IH dealership Case had the David Browns for there under 100 horse line and then when they conbined with IH they crossed every thing up so much I just thought it was a David Brown which most of the browns had perkins engines
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 02:59PM
there u go trying to think ur way thru shoot its a lot more fun to shoot in the dark and see what was hit the next morning
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 09:53PM
If Cummins was use only in them tractors, then why is everyone wanting to use them in tractors them don't belong in ?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 10:35PM
Currently there are White, Oliver , Moline, Massey Ferguson , Cockshutt , Case and IH tractors that are running Cummins 5.9 in the LLSS class due to the merging of companies and the retailing of Cummins of their engines to so many manufacturers. If you're club is up to speed with the rest of the LLSS clubs and are truly sincere of getting tractor numbers up and adding alcohol that is what you'll be having.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 07, 2016 10:43PM
OK , So then the component question? If OEM conformity is broken, does the IH tractors running Cummins become a component tractors because they never fit in 300 and 400 series rear ends
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 01:50AM
First, I think it's great Badger State is doing this, I think it's great for the class nationally and I hope this really works out for their club. I don't expect national LLSS rules overnight but I'm glad to see LLSS pullers gradually working towards that goal, it will make your vehicles more valuable and it will give everyone in the class more places to hook.

The 5.9 is a tricky situation because it comes in so many different makes and models. I think it should be legal but I don't want to see it completely take over the class. Personally, I'd like to see clubs have stricter rules regarding sheetmetal and engine combinations where the 5.9 is concerned. By that I mean that if someone decides to run a 5.9 then I think they should have to run a hood from a make and model that actually came from the factory with a 5.9. A 5.9 in a IH 656 or AC 190 (just two examples) just doesn't sit well with me since those models have plenty of other hood/engine combos that are more true to their heritage.

As for rearends, if it's got a tractor housing then it's not a component tractor, it needs a true aftermarket housing like a fabricated housing or a truck housing to be a component tractor. In non-component classes I don't really care what rearend is in front of an engine as long as it's a tractor rearend and that it's from the same make/heritage line as the hood. That's my $.02


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 01:51AM
LOL!!

Well boys, looks like the horse is out of the barn now..........see what happens when you are selective and start to allow this or that for certain manufacturers.......water gets real muddy!

If it was built with a cummins, run the cummins. If it wasn't, you can't have it. Real easy.

.......otherwise, let's all just go buy a cummins and call it the cummins class. It'll be just like 4wd diesel trucks.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 09:41AM
Well I had a 5.9 cummins in a 1800 oliver rear end with a cockshutt hood on it is that a good example ive just read about what makes a true component ,What makes the tractor the rear end or the hood you put on it I believe I'm a Inavator not a spelling b winner
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 10:26AM
Badger State has a llss running oliver 1850 with a Perkins. I call that innovation . Putting a Cummins in i call easy.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 11:41AM
So are you saying everybody who ever used a 5.9 in the LLSS is not a innovativer? And/Or someone who took the "easy" way. I sure hope not
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 12:01PM
Which perkins engine. Because the 354 ci perkins is rather similar to a 5.9 cummins. The cheapest way to rebuild that perkins is to use cummins rebuild parts.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 12:46PM
Now who really thinks we can ever get our rules together or even close I new years ago we should have stuck with the old NTPA rule that the crankshaft has to swing in the block. I tried Dave but its all past us now
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 02:10PM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
Badger State has a llss running oliver 1850 with a Perkins. I call that innovation . Putting a Cummins in i call easy.

Dave, I've tried to keep up with all the posts on this topic. All I can say to you is hang in there buddy. My opinion is that Badger State did the right thing here by allowing alcohol fuel in the llss class. Just don't let it get out of hand. And that comes from someone that has an alcohol motor with an aluminum head.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 01:39PM
Eye Rolling yeah because Perkins parts are one the shelf waiting for a phone call to be taken off. Ever seen an injection pump mounted vertically?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 10:48AM
1990's it's now 2017 season ?
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 12:00PM
actually the "ih" motor could be run in an agco if you are so inclined
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 02:16PM
I run a cummins 5.9l in a ford tractor. There are several New Holland tractor models that ran Cummins engines.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 03:14PM
Case ih Maxxum all had cummins orange agcos had cummins too. So thinking forward we went with heritage line as the rule with a max of an 1" adapter plate. Why use cummins because of parts availability. Also the theory of engine matching reared in tractor pulling went out the window 30 yrs ago when 686 showed upnwith 436s in them in the lss class . Not picking on any specific color either . The bigger pt here is every color tractor in this llss class has engine options to be very competitive with one another no matter what the brand, with the rules most of the clubs are running this is a competitive fun class to be in and on any given night any color can win . I run an allis with a cummins alky in it ,why; it was more affordable to build, better parts availability, and for those of you who don't know have you ever seen an allis 301 head ??? Lol. By the way I ran twins on my 301 for years as a diesel too ,until I started splitting blocks, and junking heads every other yr. Also truck motors have been a part of pulling for yrs and yrs not something new .
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 08, 2016 09:56PM
Not saying that Cummins is bad. Just saying our OEM rules sometimes will not allow that application with out board approval first. And don't see that rule going away.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 09:47AM
In ppl lss most run Ih motor that not OEM for Ford or agco or John Deere
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 10:19AM
That's PPL LSS rules. He is talking BSTP LLSS rules. This is the rule BSTP adopted in there meeting. Its funny how many people are still complaining about this, and I am willing to bet don't even pull LLSS in Wisconsin. I commend BSTP for looking ahead and changing their rules to let alcohol in. They can always adjust their rules down the road at next years meeting.
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 10:29AM
Go to the PPL rule book , our class rules start on page 63. The OEM rule has been there since the class started in the late 90's
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 12:00PM
Whats OEM a 400 series engine in a 656 or 300 series in a 560 or six cylinder ford engine in a 4cyl 4 or 5000rear. Do you have to run the sheetmetal the engine came out in or what
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 12:19PM
Look up 8210 Ford
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 09, 2016 01:29PM
I have knew about 8210s ever since they wear made I don't have to look it up how many years and models did Ford go through befor they got to the 8210 the 5000 started in 1965 8210s started in 1982 that wasn't the question and I no the excuse and why people do it. Is it oem because its a ford in a ford or what. Several companies outsourced there engines are they not oem there was no 5000 fords built with six cylinders and 8210 sheet metal just the same as there was no 656 tractors built with dt360s or the 400 series engines with 686 sheet metal does whats good for goose good for the ganderl aply hear or not theres no way a 401 could have been a replacement for a 256
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 10, 2016 12:34AM
oh come now lewis you should kno that 90 percent of the keyboarders on here don't care about facts or knowledge ,,,,,,,,,,,,, its America B.S. is king and people thrive on it ,,,,, heck I might hurry and get a sex change and be the first cheese headed tranny 2 win the LLSS class in gordy !!!!!!!
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Re: Badger State LLSS adding Alcohol Tractors December 10, 2016 12:42PM
That would give drink a half a case and take one for the team a new meaning
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