Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 08:47AM
The first night of the Open SS class was just OK but that Saturday finals was maybe one of the worst classes I've seen in years. They need to move the LSS class to take the place of the Open SS. And they don't need 12 PS in the Saturday night finals.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 12:44PM
Either move light supers in there place or get more heavy supers to come to make it a bigger and hopefully better class than the 9 that were there. Why only 9 this year anyways. I know plenty of them out there that weren't there. Did they not apply or just not like pulling in Louisville anymore? But if anything I don't 12 pros are enough lol. I could watch 50 of them and not get tired of them
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 01:07PM
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Where the other heavy supers???
get more heavy supers to come to make it a bigger and hopefully better class than the 9 that were there. Why only 9 this year anyways. I know plenty of them out there that weren't there. Did they not apply or just not like pulling in Louisville anymore?
the thurs night class was aweful. having more of them wouldnt have made iit better it would just be five or six more also rans. we dont need more class fillers. all the top tractors were in the finals and it still SUCKED. Five of the strongest tractors in the world were there and it was just plain crap!!! since the 903 cummins its become the worst hooded mod class around!!!
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 01:21PM
Can't say I disagree with you on that statement about it becoming a bad class but used to be one of my favorites and guess I still wish or have hope for them. Just thought maybe if say hirts hulls or cash in trash tractors were there may have been more competition and maybe more of a better showing for them
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 01:25PM
Desperado is usually there every year and I seen he was missing from the show this year
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 20, 2017 01:34PM
hirts just catch fire or break. the other two are just class fillers now days. none of those b level tractor would have helped.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 21, 2017 01:59PM
Open SS wasn't great, but diesel SS is just as boring, same tractors over & over. It is time to re-combine the classes, as both are dull and limping along. Wouldn't have been interesting to watch Ross vs Chizek tractors? Use weight to bring them closer if need be, but it's time to figure out a way to run them together again.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 21, 2017 02:42PM
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Punisher...
Open SS wasn't great, but diesel SS is just as boring, same tractors over & over. It is time to re-combine the classes, as both are dull and limping along. Wouldn't have been interesting to watch Ross vs Chizek tractors? Use weight to bring them closer if need be, but it's time to figure out a way to run them together again.

I wasn't there, but your post is a good one. "time to figure out a way to run them together again." I have said that same thing for years in regards to state organizations.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 04:23AM
Or do away with the Open SS completely. Combine the LSS and DSS. Alcohol at 6200 - 6500 lbs and Diesel at 7000lbs. And have 2 or 3 sessions of them.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 05:05AM
I really like that idea, but I would rather see a DSS PS combo. Pull the PS at 9000 lbs, the class should never have been a 10000 pound class.it's boring that heavy. Leave the LSS alone. And the open SS are not going anywhere,to mu$h money in that class. Now if a couple of those guys would build a a LSS besides Chisel then maybe.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 01:10AM
Wasn't the old ATPA LSS rules 505 CI on Alcohol and Unlimited CI on Diesel, Allowed overhead cam, and some kind of weight difference between them? That seemed to work out pretty good. The diesel and alcohol mixed it up nice back then. Maybe rules like that and have the Super Stock class (combine OSS, DSS, and LSS). Open rules cost money to compete, and kills a class.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 06:11AM
Maybe its time to bring back the RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG class, for all the liberal minded,everyone gets a trophy generation ,Place a spending cap on the owners,Take from the more successful and give to the less fortunate to try and even the field, Remember this NFMS and BG are the 2 most successful pulls in our country,both with 50 years, They must be doing something right. Yes there is always room for improvement but don't re invent either pull. There are more than enough other pulls one can attend to see other classes not offered at these venues.I have always said, if I can attend only 2 pulls a year ,it would be .,BG and NFMS Simply the best !!!
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 06:44AM
On a post last fall Doug Roberts said Outlaws was the first to separate the diesel and alcohol Super Stocks twenty years ago. He went on to say that now niether class has enough competitors and if they do not put some limits on the diesel supers to keep them on the track, they might as well put them back together in same class to have enough numbers. Niether class at Louisville or all summer had good numbers. He might be right!
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 01:00PM
You get past all the rules banning certain tractors or builders every once in a while he says something right
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 01:25PM
Run what you brung and hope you brung enough! !! That what makes super stock pulling great!!!! Make the weight 20 inch draw bar and no bitching! Make super stock pulling great again!
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 22, 2017 01:47PM
I play the lottery twice a week for a chance to be able to buy a Brent Long Machine Unlimited Super Stock. I use to go with the Marino's " Show Me Showdown " the pullers in that class are awesome pullers and great friends. I do agree with the post above. Bring what you got and hope you have enough!
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Run what ya brung; sport/class killer February 23, 2017 07:50AM
Run what ya brung, and hope ya brung enough may be one of the worst idea's in the sport today. The truth is the classes that have large cubic, high HP rules are not growing and in fact the numbers over the years is showing a steady decline. For every 680 PS being built there are 30 Lt PS/Lm PS being built, for every 650 alcohol SS being built 10 LSS are being built. Not that there isn't a place for these tractors, rather the rules in these and a couple other classes are becoming class killers. Nothing will kill a class and the sport as fast as having rules that only a handful [5] of people can afford to run in. Already the separation in the 650 alcohol SS class is starting to become unhealthy for the class. And one of the truths that everyone wants to ignore is that there just isn't enough numbers in certain classes to support 2 major pulling organizations.
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Re: Run what ya brung; sport/class killer February 23, 2017 12:53PM
Amen do the run what u brung in 3 years with 3 tractors left it would be over .just put some turbo and cube limits on the class and se it grow the sled man can make the class look just as good
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Re: Run what ya brung; sport/class killer February 23, 2017 01:19PM
Why is it Doug Roberts was the only one to see this coming with rules! You see where Outlaws has come to from nothing and owns the Midwest!
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Re: Run what ya brung; sport/class killer February 23, 2017 02:21PM
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Dick Morgan
The truth is the classes that have large cubic, high HP rules are not growing and in fact the numbers over the years is showing a steady decline.

That statement is sooooooooooo true! SOOOOOOOOOOOO true!!!! I said that very same thing 20 years ago and I was told by one of those high hp competitors that "when you build something, it doesn't cost anymore to build big than to build small". I said the "hell it doesn't, bigger turbos, bigger pumps, bigger cubes all mean more machine work."

When I said that, no one wanted to hear it. Now look at the classes. But what would I know, I'm just a supertiquer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2017 02:34PM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 23, 2017 01:19PM
Put some weight in the sled and make it 300.00 ft again not 350.00 ft how about that.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 23, 2017 01:29PM
Doug doesn't have the Unlimited Super Stock Class . He doesn't like the overhead camshaft. Which means less moving parts so less parts he can sell
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 23, 2017 03:07PM
Well, you're wrong on so many points;
- They did load the wagon in Louisville and they can't run to 350', 300', 275', or even 250'.
- Sled settings were great and the Unlimited Supers still sucked.
- They had the best of the best in the finals and it wasn't a good show.
- There are only two owners [Chizek, Wells] that can afford to push their tractors that hard.
- Doug had overhead cam motors in his own tractors and loved them.
- The Outlaw Unlimited Light Super class voted on their own rules [rules are the same as PPL and NTPA LSS which is great].
- Doug would try to sell snow to an Eskimo so he'd sell them overhead cam motors if they all wanted them.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 02:30AM
Personally, I don't think the LSS needs to be combined with anything, they have enough numbers and they're a great standalone class, there's no need to make any changes. There were some really great LSS tractors that didn't get an invite to Louisville this year which means the class is plenty healthy. The same goes for combining anything with the Pro Stock class, there's just no need.

It's the two heavy Super Stock classes that are struggling. Infact they've both always struggled since the split. The fuel rivalry was one of the most compelling reason to watch the Super Stock class in the early 1990's. The mixed fuels were part of the Super Stock class since the very beginning of the sport and it should still be that way.
I'd love to see what combining the Diesel SS and the Open SS would look like. If the Diesel SS tractors weighted 8500 lbs. and the Alcohol tractors weighed 8000 lbs. would they be able to compete with each other?

This past summer we got a glimpse: Lock and Load make an exhibition pass in Bowling Green immediately after the Open Super Class. The sled setting was not changed, and the hook would have put Lock and Load in second place for the class. What would Triple Bypass look like against the Galot tractors and the Armed and Dangerous team? Would 500lbs. be enough? Too much? I'd love to see.


Jake Morgan
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Independent Pulling News


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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 03:46AM
I would like to see them give the diesels a weight difference in the LSS. I would like to see some competitive diesels back in this class too.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 04:31AM
Jake, you really said it! I was at BG and saw that pass as well. With how far the DSS class has come, let's see them run with the Open Supers and see where things shake down. I bet there would be some surprises! I would love to see it.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 06:04AM
Any sled guys out there know what the difference in the sled setting is between the DSS and OSS? Figure a sled man could tell you exactly how far apart the diesels and alkies are.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 09:54AM
It takes more weight to stop the open supers than it does the RN mods. Watched it happen.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 06:05AM
Keep beating that drum. The spilt is not the reason for the decline in numbers. In the 2000s both classes had many competitors at all events. Cost is the reason for declining numbers. Combining won't change that fact.

Not possible to combine.

1 don't add weight to the slower tractors.
2 500 isn't enough difference
3 too much difference alkys will stop coming
4 too little diesels aren't going to show
5 dss had 13 at nfms. And plenty good tractors at home.
6 the LSS have the same numbers issues compared to past
7 20 different tractor classes at less cost is another reason for decline.

Pulling against 504 alkies at 7000 and 6500 is an interesting idea but the 650 cubes and v8s are long gone for a good combined show.

Thinking one pass by lock nt load changes that is forgetting your sample size is too small. A good power track that diesels can go right out of the hole is a must with this idea. How many times does that happen during the summer?

Ntpa has to turn down dss hooks right now as the diesel guys have wanted to limit hooks. To me there is only a problem when ntpa can't get a promoter to want the class. Not even close to that. This class is being asked for plenty. Just added 2 hooks in Iowa for 2017.

It's still a draw to the fans to see these guys run. And if you have another diesel class along with them at the hooks, the fans get to see plenty of diesel.

I can't speak for uss as I haven't had that discussion with promoters regarding them.


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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 06:29AM by AV.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 11:13AM
Everyone who keeps saying they need to combine the classes should just look at the LLSS class. Half the posts on this forum are about guys who can't agree on anything in that class and that is exactly what you will have if you combine the heavies. It will turn into a yearly joke about what new rules we need to implement so that everyone is happy. I feel that they should be left alone. They both have steady followings and fan bases. Do we really need another class with 40 tractors in it? I'm sorry, but boring to me is watching 30 Super farms all going the same distance. In regards to the Louisville pull: The main reason they don't get numbers in some classes is because it is in the middle of February. Do you really expect these guys to plan their entire off season around one pull? What's really in it for the pullers besides prestige? It's a lot of time and money to go and run for no points.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 01:08PM
Don't worry both class will fix there self by being replaced
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 01:32PM
Do you really think that by bringing in 6 tier 2, 20 feet behind the pace would have helped that show. Dream on
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 02:30PM
Where are Robert's 3 tractors?? Do they run at all anymore or did they sell them?
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 01:44PM
At this point, I have to agree for the heavy Ally guys combining the DSS just wouldn't be appealing for anyone thinking about building for the class. With that said I am waiting for the day when pulling realizes that quality over quantity will always put on a better show, in my opinion. I would rather watch 10-15 of the best vehicles at a national event then 50 vehicles with only that 10-15 making solid passes. If having a set number of true national pullers, will help with regions that lose pullers to the bigger events that fall the same weekend. Then at these events, Tomah, BG, Hillsboro....etc and many more, they can have a fast but more evenly paced show, and don't have to be so rushed, do a more engaging trophy presentation instead of a few minutes in between pulls and start showcasing pulled and I think it would be a better sell to TV because it could be more manageable to produce. This is Not to pick on regional or state level vehicles because pulling has to be the only motorsport that a state level vehicle could win at a national event. That statement was for pulling in general and I think the the open or unlimited supers this year will have the opportunity to make a better showing with the way the schedule falls, not sure if there was some coordination between NTPA and PPL or not, hopefully we will see more crossover at both events and that should give this class a big boost in numbers. I think if there was a time and place to combine classes, it would be at the Enderle where you could have the top Pros vs SSD or Diesel vs Alky showdown, Diesel trucks vs Gas trucks the combination is endless and would be fun way to end the year in pulling and some bragging rights as well, this not to say that the current format bad because I love the concept and is the closest to an all star weekend in pulling. Just throwing ideas out there on how what I think pulling could do to give it more parody and fan engagement. As a pulling fan my entire life these are just my observations throughout the years and don't claim this is what should or shouldn't be done. Just want to continue to see this sport grow and continue to produce a great product.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 02:15PM
Well said Ryan, couldn't agree with you more!
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 24, 2017 11:45PM
On Jason Shultz's radio show he interviewed Josh Blackbourn and Josh said they are planning on running both schedules this year.
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Re: Time to move the Open SS to Saturday afternoon February 25, 2017 06:13AM
They usually do if there isn't an NTPA hook the same weekend as a PPL hook.
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