12:49:05pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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Grand national light supers
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NY er
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Is bowling green it for the light super for points. Looks like the old Ford could still pull it out with a little luck. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Well
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1 Extremely Insane 2 Commander 3 considered armed and dangerous |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 480 |
No BG is it for the Light Supers. Hootman fell 1 point short unfortunately. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Jason, Craig, and Chad fell only 1 Point short of a national championship. BUT they now have won a BG ring! Tomah championship! Louisville championship x2. They only missed the pull off by 3 inches and it takes a three tractor team to beat them. Atta Boy team Commander. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Ihfan
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Very happy for the Phillips family. The million dollar show from Wisconsin may be over. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Cheese with the wine
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Just for the record we r all not commander fans. Way to go red teams. Ha ha. Lol |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Sure wish the commander could have pulled it out. Still a great year. The million dollar show isn't going anywhere. They are starting to get the 4 turbo rig dialed in and it's going to be pretty tough to beat them once they do. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Everyone can talk but in the end the million dollar show still won the title of NTPA Grand National Champ. They maybe didn't win big in Tomah or win a ring in Bowling Green but they did win what matters.... the Grand National title. Maybe only by one point, but that's all it took. If my memory serves me correctly they hold the title 7 out of the last 8 years. Check out their stats still pretty impressive when their tractors are running NTPA and PPL and continue to run pretty good without the issues of other tractors running only one or the other. Phillips had one good pass in Bowling Green, hats off to him, Hootman had a few more, great job!! The million dollar show has had some struggles this year but remember they're running 3 different tractors, not just one, in two different circuits, and are coming back strong. Korth has proven he can drive the tractors and drive he does. Love or hate him give him credit for his ability in the seat. As a LSS fan I enjoy a good show and the million dollar show makes the rest step up and try to keep up. It makes the fans happy. Like red or not they put on a great show. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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tbj
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So do they have 3 card board cutouts of chizek so he can be at all the events? |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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I should hope Korth can drive by now, but I doubt he's the reason they keep winning. Pretty sure having the best alcohol engine builder on the planet and unlimited funds has more of an effect than the driver. They win just the same with chizek or blackbourn in the saddle. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Face in crowd
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I agree. Ever seen a jockey carry a racehorse across the finish line? |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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So Blackbourn only builds for Chizek? I thought there were other Blackbourn motors out there in the same class? Seems to me it's a bit like racing - equipment helps & is no doubt part of the package - but you can't put anyone in the best race car and expect to win - the driver finishes the package. There's a reason Chizek has his drivers - all 3 of them. They complete his so-called "million dollar show" |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Lewis
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I raced circle track the first time I had ever been to a track and ever seen a dirt race .I won the heat and got second in the feature the car I was driving won the track championship 5 years in a row |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Congratulations Lewis, I hear Little E is retiring this year maybe you can catch the ride? Or maybe Chizek will hire you if Korth retires. I'm sure you can sit in the seat and know exactly how to move those tractors off the line. Give ALL of these drivers a little more credit than jumping on & going. It's been seen Korth can be beat, he's human, but his ability to drive & read a track is better than most. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Lewis
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Thanks I just got lucky the car I was driving was just a couple years ahead of the rest of the pack they just hadn't cought up to it yet if I would have jumped into the 15th place car for my first ride I probably wouldn't of faired so well |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
It wasn't too large just a few short years ago til the alky guys all wanted the rule change in ppl. I don't know why they asked for the rule to state 505 for both fuels as it would have been interesting to see someone try a pro stock style motor. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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And here we go again with the alcohol/diesel debate. You guys just found 2 sanctions that run them together. Go watch them. Leave NTPA and PPL out of it. I can't understand why you would want to see it? It is a fact that they get more power out of alcohol. Deal with it already!! Trying to limit an alcohol job just so you can say a diesel beat it, makes no sense to me. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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ford fan
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if the million dollar team is so great why does it take them so many attempts to beat the little ford? it took all three tractors before they could beat him in session 1. they had three shots at it in session 3 and they went further every time but still couldnt beat the ford. sure they won the points but it takes 3 tractors to beat the blue 1. no doubt about it that ford is better than the million dollar babies. they just have deaper pockets. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Big W
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Does it really matter how they won the championship? In my book a win is a win no matter what it takes, so to say the Ford is truly better is simply false, it runs good but if it was truly better I suppose he would be the champion seems to me that's kinda how it works.... |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 09/29/2009 Posts: 154 |
I could be wrong, but I'm starting to see a Wisconsin/New York rivalry... as in most professional sports this is what keeps the FANS coming back, kinda like the Buffalo/ Toronto hockey rivalry, I know it's been said as more of a David VS Goliath and it's is mostly cause of the 3 tractor to 1 ratio, But the light super class has really gained in popularity and even more exciting to watch that ever with the addition of more competitive competition.. Wether u like red, blue, orange ,yellow or green there is a tractor for any fan to cheer for in the light super stock class. Thanks to the light super guys for putting on great shows. - Adam Adam Draudt www.MADPullingPics.com or follow us on 
or email us at:
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Driver
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Let a pro stock motor in there an see the fans go crazy,most would love it,i for one would,it would b real interesting,i bet a diesel would be right there with em,smoke against alcohol again. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
LSS has a 505 ci limit. The 600+ pro motors are too large. Even a 540 light pro motor is too large. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Driver
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I know the rules,ive been in this sport 30 plus yrs,to get the two fuels to run again against each other in light super stock" which about everyone would love" they'd just about have to be big cubes,LLSS diesels get an extra hundred cubes an makes the class very competitive,let them do it in light super an see what happen,numbers just might go up. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Jerry L.
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if you must explain it its not funny |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
How do you explain Degenharts? |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Redline Fever Lite
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Or Redline Fever Lite. |
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Apples to oranges comparison
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Just wondering
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Nothing against Brian but there are about100 drivers in pulling that could drive those LSS to a championship. Mike has decided that he wants to win championships and Terry is why they win. Hootman designed,built,tunes and owns the entire operation. Not trying to take away from the Chizek great success but it would be interesting to see what Hootman would do with deeper pockets |
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Re: Apples to oranges comparison
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FACTS
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I can tell you what would happen Hootman APPLES TO Apples would smoke there Ass Theirs more respect given to the guy that does it him self than the guy who just rights a check .Chezic is like Rodney Dangerfield No Respect |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
Nebraska Bush runs both fuels together but with cast chassis as does Outlaws. 640 cu single turbo diesels against alkys at 505 |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Illini State pullers also run both fuels together. 505 cubic inch limit on BOTH fuel types. Cast chassis alcohol WEIGHS 6000lbs. Cast chassis diesel weighs 6100lbs. LLSS alcohol or diesel can weigh 6250lbs. but they still have to meet the CUBIC INCH limits. Component alcohol can weigh 5800 and component diesel can weigh 5900 but they also have to make the CUBIC inch limit. I am looking forward to this weekend at Monroe, Wi.. It should be a really good show. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Lewis
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Make the tracks short and load the wagon its 200 ft on these sleds befor your even pulling something if its a 350 ft track unhook the 4020 john from the Grinder mixer and it can crawl to 200 load em up and se how much distance is between the two make all the tracks take some power instead of this running shoot crap |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Smoke Fan
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I think you can get a 505 smoker to run with the alcohol tractors on certain power tracks. But they could never win a championship. 300+ pounds of boost 6,000+ rpms will not live long with the heavy diesel components. From what I have heard you really need to push a 505 to get it to run with the alcohol tractors. Sure you can have 5 spare motors ready to go. But a smoker will not make the entire season without a few major break downs. All it takes is one bad track to make a lot of very expensive pieces. A few major break downs and you are out of the points chase.
I don't have an answer on how to get them competitive together. With the current rules you will not ever see a smoker win a LSS championship. You can see a smoker sneak in an occasional good run. I just think the crowd would like to see smoke and alcohol compete. Sell more beer sell more tickets and move the sport forward. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 761 |
I'm not sure how to fund it, but how about a bounty on a diesel tractor winning a GN LSS class? If it could start at $500 and increase each hook it might be interesting how may would hook the class and take a shot if it became large. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Smoke Fan
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That actually could work to get more of them to pull LSS and get serious about it. Never thought of a raised purse incentive for diesels. But it would be worth a shot!!! Advertise the heck out of it announce it at the pulls so the fans root for the underdog. You may be on to something!
It still doesn't fix the fact that they will not be able to win a championship. But it could really grow the LSS class. And get some smoke back. I If you could get Jody Ross or Travis to build a 505 motor it would be nice to see what they could do! |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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It's rigged anyway. Seventh place at Tomah and 4th place points. Get rewarded for losing to guys who don't run GN. 8 hooks at 4 pulls a year is also very weak for a "championship". Pro stocks pull 3 times that much. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 12/30/2008 Posts: 275 |
You need the variety in the class. Alcohol vs diesel creates a huge crowd "rivalry" and drives some excitement. ALL the organizations need it. An alcohol tractor on a slick track will have an advantage, it can over rpm and has more drivability than the diesel. The diesel on a real good hooking track, if it has enough front end weight to control it and the sled is set for 300' tops, will give the alcohol tractor everything it can handle. [www.ulmerracing.com] |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Even in Outlaws, the tracks are not set for 300' any more though. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
sounds like we may have found someone else who is around both that would like to mix them together along with have a 300' track and is a puller themself. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 12/30/2008 Posts: 275 |
Outlaws already mix the fuels together as well as give the diesel a chance with a 640 cubic inch motor as well.
The 300' track makes no difference to me honestly. I've won at 294' distance and my uncle's diesel tractor has won at 350' as well. The diesel has a better shot at winning on a shorter track, as a heavier sled slows the alcohol's ability to over power the sled and "sling shot" the sled as I'll call it. On my 290' run and my 367' run last Saturday both runs lasted approximately 14 seconds. I believe the faster speed makes it more of a driver effort to control the tractor as your feet traveled per second is much quicker and requires your driving to be better, but in the end the sled is set the same for all the vehicles in the class. If someone has a million dollars burning a hole in their pocket, give me a call, we'll build a grand national caliper light super diesel. It'll take over half of it to build the chassis & enough spare motors so you can run a whole season. [www.ulmerracing.com] |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 01/27/2010 Posts: 101 |
It doesn't happen a lot but friday afternoon in Wisner it did, here are the results. Light Super Stock 1 Mark Ulmer Menno SD The Weapon Case IH 7130 291.28 2 Allen Ulmer Menno SD Midnight Mistress Case IH MX 170 290.8 |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 12/30/2008 Posts: 275 |
Also, in that session there was a diesel at 283' and another alcohol at 281'. So 1st to 4th were 10 feet apart with two diesels (1st & 3rd) and two alcohols (2nd & 4th). [www.ulmerracing.com] |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Everyone on here knows that outlaws combine the two. Half the posts on here this spring were about pullers bitching about how unfair it is. You guys have to change your rules on a yearly basis to try and keep everyone happy. It makes about as much sense as putting twd and fwd together. Did anyone from outlaws stop and think that this might be contributing to the lower numbers??? Smokers can't compete with alcohol. Period. All your little scenarios about how on a good day at a certain type of track are all lies. There isn't a smoker around that would touch blackbourn on any track with any sled. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Technically that hasn't been done yet. However 2016 Bowling Green, Steve Burge ran a test pass that would have beaten everyone except Blackbourn, including the 2016 Grand National Champion tractor that beat Blackbourn multiple times. So in a roundabout way, even Blackbourn can be beaten by a top running DSS. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Registered: 03/01/2009 Posts: 132 |
I believe if you take the weight away from the aklys and bring them back down under 6000 lbs and have the diesels at 6300 lbs then they will have a fighting chance. But nobody wants to give up the weight because it makes them harder to drive.... |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Roberts rules
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Roberts was the only one that knew what needed to be done in that class. He wanted to take 100 lbs. away from the Alcohol tractors and have them weigh 6000 to even up the field some. Even though he was building one himself, he put the class before his own tractor. Most can't do that and it will be interesting to see how things go at Outlaws with him out of the picture. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Mixed class
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I was at the LSS meeting Doug had at Arlington and he wanted the best Alky tractors at 6000 which was mainly the IH tractors and then add weight for the other brands like AC and JD to make it fair. The IH boys raised cane about that and finally it was left the same base weight of 6100 for Alky and 6400 for diesel and then added weight for different brands. A lot of other associations has it at 6000 on Alky and 5800 on component Alky to even up the class with diesels. When Roberts gets his new tractor out they may have wished they had made it 6000. Like the above post Roberts does what is best for the class even though he building tractor for this class. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Ha
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I guess you forgot the deal last winter! The deal where he gave a John Deere 300 lbs more than a ih! John Deere alky weighs 6400 and a ih weighs 6100! Sounds fair to me and now he has started on his John Deere for next year! |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Pullinfan4255
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And I'll be damned if he isn't claiming that at 6200 pounds he will have 3400lbs on the front....That was physically impossible before this meeting was over and yet now is possible. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Can't read
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Read all the papers Doug posted on here and he wanted Alcohol 6000 and John Deere's 6200 and that would be what most weigh around the country. The 200 lbs was less than what IH gains on engine location. The IH guys didn't want to give up that 100 lbs. so everything went up a 100 lbs. Now you will get to deal with the Barnyard Beast at 6300 lbs. It's not going to be easy pickin's for the red guys next year. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Another LSS puller
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I'm SOOOOOOO glad someone else has seen the light on the "Doug Roberts John Deere rule". He had a shed plus of stuff to sell!!! And building his own for that class knowing full well what he wanted was a stacked deck in his favor!! Rule made all his stuff worth maybe more money OR just got some guys wanting to build so he capitalizes there AND gives himself on a new tractor all the advantages he needs to say he is the king hahahahahahaha |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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That's right
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The pullers voted this in for 3 years and Doug presented all the cast components and weights along with figures to back it up. Posted it here on this thread and no one questioned his diagrams, math and figures. He is a man that thinks outside of the box and can't wait to see his new tractor no matter what he gets to weigh. He will probably make front weight better than other John Deere's but still might not be as much the better IH tractors. Outlaws has lost all the good running John Deere light supers the last few years because they couldn't make weight. (Wiens, Whitworth, Bojoboi) Cory Schlueter could do nothing with 3 turbos and went back to one with same tractor and has had more success, not a top runner but better than last year. The JD tractors running in Outlaws this year do not run good enough to need more front end weight and are way behind. With the new rule getting some good running JD tractors back in the class and should make a better class for the fans. |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Ummmm
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The John Deere guys couldn't win because they refused to update their equipment!!!! Now that they have more weight they get worse fuel mileage on the way to the pulls and when the tractors they tried to get rid of show up they are still 123 !!! |
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Re: Grand national light supers
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Curious
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Does anyone know the ETPC's light super stock rules? |
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