10:18:39am, Thursday, April 18, 2024
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Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
We live in some very, very different times now, different from even 5-10 years ago. Nationally there are some social ideas and changes that have come about that we agree or disagree with. My post is not here to draw in political talk but to perhaps make light of some opportunities.
If you follow sports at any length it's hard to miss the massive changes taking place in professional sports, particularly the NFL. With the head counts at games and tv ratings down, there's a certain amount of backlash occurring now because of what many consider unpatriotic acts by players and a general change in the quality of the competition. In short, the NFL as a whole has managed to alienate their fans in sizeable amounts-fans that are patriotic and appreciative of great competition; fans that went to football games to forget about the muckety-muck they see on tv, hear about on the radio, and are constantly bombarded by if they engage in social media at any length. While it's disheartening as a fan of sports in general to see the changes going on, I think there's opportunity in pulling and motorsports in general to engage this segment of the population into our world. They want entertainment, and the massive budget they were spending on football, from tickets to tailgating to the NFL Red Zone package is money out there for the taking for entertainment purposes. Motorsports in general has much going for it to entertain. The power, noise, sights and even scents of motorsports are an undeniable draw. Focusing directly on pulling, we'll not find a more patriotic, home-grown, and family-friendly segment in all of motorsports. Having said all that, what do we do to grab those fans, and hold them in the "off-season?" Again, there's this huge window of opportunity for motorsports to invite some new friends in and some old ones back...is NASCAR, having just shed its' favorite son Dale Jr. from competition up to the challenge and is the NHRA and drag racing which has some tremendous youth appeal at play can capitalize on this? What about pulling? I have some ideas but I'd like to hear some thoughts from others first. You tell me and I'll tell you, but my thoughts won't buy a nickel piece of bubble-gum... Thanks for reading, fire away. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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this topic has been discussed on here numerous times and most everybody says its a farmer sport or redneck sport but I have always wondered why some promoters don't try a tractor pull in a bigger city for example here in iowa we have a huge pull in rock valley that town has 4000 people Tomah has 10k bowling green has 31k I know ppl runs some pulls in some bigger cities but in my opinion try some pulls in Omaha Sioux city Minneapolis Kansas city etc etc etc expand the brand to so called city folks give them there bang for there buck and see if the sport grows just my 2 cents thanx |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
True, we've beat this horse here before; however there wasn't the opportunities available now when it was talked about before. I think there needs to be recognition that there are a ton of disenfranchised people who want to be entertained and motorsports as a whole needs to recognize and capitalize upon it. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Tommy2tone
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I've often wondered if nationalizing your most common class rules through all the state organizations would help? Here's why, I have "city" friends that do enjoy going to fairs and festivals and most common question is "what class is this and how is it different from that one"? So is it possible to have national rules for let's say entry farmstock through to prostock? If local fairs have local classes then so be it but maybe this would make more since to others not around it and maybe they would follow it more. Not to mention if tom wanted to go from Missouri and pull in ohio next weekend in the hotfarm class then he could. I also think that tractor pulling has surpassed it's limit. It's outta hand as far as cost and rules should have been capped years ago. There is no affordable "start up" class anymore and it will kill this sport eventually because there are many other affordable motorsports to be involved in. The other question is can fairs continue to afford the high price of Organizations to put on a pull? The higher priced machines cost more to have. Is this really the direction to continue to go? Where does it stop? I want nothing more than to see the sport thrive but until it's made more affordable all around, your participation rate will continue to drop. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
Thanks again to everyone who has offered insight and commentary here, and thank you Dave especially for your insight, you have certainly put the time and miles in to offer some great thoughts.
I think what's missing here is some perspective on what growth/sustainability is and how to capitalize on folks who are looking for a new way to enjoy the sport as a fan or participant. I don't have the resume some do, especially guys like Dave. I do remember the first pull I ever went in 1976 and have been locked in as a fan ever since at some level. My participation in the sport ramped up dramatically in 2003 and like many, many of you I've put some miles and hours in to support the sport. I cover everything from a farm stock unstyled G John Deere to a four-engine Mod throughout the year, and the end-game for both examples have to be clarified as very,very different. An analogy that fits the sport very well: Tractor pulling is golf. Think about that for a minute. We have a sport where at the entry level (and...for the record, "entry level" does not coincide with "skill level," you ought to see the magic I've seen worked on a tractor at 5mph to get another 15-20 feet on a pass...there's some damn good pullers running 3-4-6-8-12mph out there) is ripe with competitor numbers and low on spectator attendance. It's a participatory sport at that level for the most part like golf. I have seem some really nice crowds at antique-specific events, the top three by my head counts have been the 2017 Half Century of Progress pull, a pull in Inverness, Florida, and this year at a pull...in North Dakota...first week of March, indoors of course. Those are the exceptions to the rule. As I try to promote the sport I have these notions of "wouldn't be great to have a packed house at an antique pull?' but pragmatically the goal should be to get more people pulling at that level. The friendship and fellowship are exceptional in antique/classic/farm stock and you don't have to spend 30K to have fun, unless you want to get above 8mph competitively. I point to the Southern Nationals in Tunica, Mississippi where there's been 1300+ hooks over three days the past three years, and if everyone that was there had brought a tractor there would have been 500 tractors on site. It's a hotbed of competition but you'll hear many say that it's a social gathering where a tractor pull breaks out. The most passionate event I go to is in Sigourney, Iowa in March at their Expo Pull for the Matt Voss Memorial Class and the 5500 Classic Championship. That converted barn rocks with excitement. Building the competitor base and keeping it in antique/classic/farm stock is the greatest challenge and should be the focus rather than trying to fill stands. Top-level pulling (i.e. PPL, NTPA Outlaws): ripe with competition, good fan participation...like golf at the "top level." The spectator side of it is where the growth should be. More spectators = more eyes on sponsor signage = more dollars theoretically in the sport. What do we spend more dollars on? We gotta defeat the two-headed monster of time and labor somehow. We have a lot of good folks working in this sport, people I have worked/work with and for. None of them are sitting around twiddling their thumbs, pulling is a year-round deal if we didn't know that already. I would venture to guess no organization would turn down high-quality help to ensure marginal shows run smoother and smooth running shows run even better. Better run shows, again, = more fans. More fans bring in more dollars. Is there room for improvement on the competition side? When is there not, there wouldn't be meetings every winter and rule changes if there weren't. Many pulls are doing things right, you know the names and places like I do. It takes an army of dedicated personnel to pull those events off, and thankfully those events have promoters and promotion bodies that are actively trying to do what I am talking about, grab new and more fans. Keep on talking and reading and replying. Thanks for looking in. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I think are shows have to be better. The people we are trying to get want to see fast paced quality show that is worth there time. The die hard fans will always show up. The pulls that are doing live streaming is a good start. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
I've been thinking about this topic this past week. I'm not sure how it could be accomplished, but someone might have some new Ideas involving pulling vehicles. For example, I work on my tractor all week. Then i drive 2 hours to a pull. I hook to the sled and less than 20 seconds my adrenaline rush is over ! I load up and go home. If i'm luck I will win enough $ to make the next event. I have been addicted to pulling for close to 50 years. I have tried to quit many times only to build or buy another tractor. Ha Ha !!! Where I'm going with this, there needs to be some way to get more seat time at an event! With the engines running on KILL how could this be accomplished ? Just a thought or maybe a nightmare !!! |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave k
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Since our sport relates to country lifestyle mabe we should be putting on events with country music artists. Have it set up somehow where fans can go back and fort between venues. Just a thought. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I do agree that the product that pulling is trying to sell has to be better produced. The vehicles that are on the track are powerful, and every bit as beautiful as any other motor-sport that any organization offers, the sleds by and large are well maintained and flawless in their operation. There are are great shows like Hillsboro, Bowling Green, Gordyville and a few others. However their are way to many shows that start late and run way to long. To long between hooks, to long into the night, to long. As fans of the sport we believe that if everyone would just go to one hook they would love the sport just like we do. Wrong, take anyone to a bad run show and chances are you will never get them to another show. We tolerate a crap shows because we know that every once in a while we are going to get a a top notch state or regional show.
The show needs to be improved, write all the rules you want, make more classes, make less classes, wear funny hats and have fire works and a concert, nothing helps until the show is made better. Fast paced, action packed and family friendly. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I've been a pulling fan since 1975 and a small time puller from Northeastern Pa. for most of that time. As a fan/puller I would like to think we could draw from some other sports but it's tough to do that. I know of several attempts to have non fair professional pulls here but the crowds didn't come and money was lost. One show was the Sunday after the Bloomsburg Fair pull. A lot of top tractors showed up but again not enough fans to cover the cost. Tractor pulling has become too complicated with so many classes that look to be the same.The novice fan has no idea what's going on. I have sat in the stands trying to explain the difference but if you're not into it the info just makes them more confused. Football is football, Nascar has basically two classes and they are loosing fans to the point of removing seats. I remember as a kid that about every county around here had dirt race tracks now only a couple are left. I never went to one as I wasn't a fan. I feel tractor puling is the same. You either like pulling or you don't. We also live in an "environmental era" which has to be a watch out trying to have pulls in urban areas. Keystone seems to be successful because us pulling nuts need some winter rpms. That show can get pricey for a non-fan to just come off the street to check it out. It can also be an issue getting a seat off the street. Is it advertised in local papers vs. farm or pulling pages so everyone gets the info in advance ? I'm not saying it's impossible to draw new fans in a big way but it would take an excellent promoter with gifted advertising/promotional skills. Just my 2 cents from my area of the country. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
We have been going to the pull that the Sullivan family puts on in the spring for many years. They have changed venues several time over the years trying to better their event. One move they made was to move Into the northern Ky area in Burlington,Ky. The venue was very nice and close to a lot of population being within 30 minutes of down town Cincinnati. A few years ago they moved back towards the country because the folks close to the city just weren't that interested. They put on a great event that rivaled a Grand American or GN event in the TWD class. So I'm not sure getting close to big city is the answer,they just don't get what we do.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
We cannot fix it
It’s too late the very technology that I’m typing this on being my phone is the problem I never have let my kids have video games or phones and they love pulling but for the most part the younger generation doesn’t have any interest in any type of Motorsport the good Ol days are gone You can’t build a motor or a tractor or a truck with your phone at some point you have to get your hands dirty and most pulling fans are gear heads or farmers You’ll never bring new fans in because of all the tree hugging environmentalists Run what ya brung hope it’s enough don’t pay to get in don’t pay to enter and don’t get a pay back just hook to the sled have some fun and don’t worry if there’s a crowd to watch I’ve never looked to see how many people are in the seats going down the track it’s about a 15 second rush and the friends you make |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
The sport needs maximum eyeballs. There is some tv coverage. We need more on bigger channels. And new platforms: hulu , Netflix, etc. We need forward thinking. Too much attention on butts in seats. Not enough on eyeballs on screens. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
Thanks for all of the responses so far. I think there's some good ideas here and I want to suggest even a few more. One thing that's been a feather in the cap of pulling is the accessibility to fans. In having that relationship with people off-the-street and not necessarily off-the-farm there's opportunity to build more connections and have return customers. One idea I've had is what I call a "power hour," a coordinated warm-up session for classes before a pull. These warm-ups are already being done, but if it's announced prior to the pull and pullers warm up in a manner where fans can in a sense do a walking tour of each competitors area, it would mimic what we see in NHRA for their nitro warm-ups. Another thing, and as corny as it may sound, is that I think pullers need "walk-up" music, a song that is played every time they pull on to or off of a track...yes it borrows from other sports, baseball and wrestling come to mind but it fills space in the action and cues the fan (not necessarily the hard core guy but a newer younger fan) as to who's up.
As to Mr. Bailey's comments we can't keep looking in the rear view mirror at what the sport was, or is, we have to look forward to what it can, and will be, 5, 10, 15 years down the road. We DO need to count heads in the seats, especially on the "hot" side of things. We need butts in seats and we also need those eyes watching on tvs, phones, tablets, and laptops as was mentioned. We have ample opportunity for home-grown renewable fuel sources that would keep environmentalist mouths quiet if we could use them in the most effective manner---what other motorsport is more closely tied to its potential fuel sources? Pretty heady stuff for the status quo to see that this is not a bunch of backwards rednecks (as some might perceive but we know better) in this sport when we're proactive towards "environmental" things is it not? I know all about the good old days, I was there as a teenager and remember how accessible the sport was, even with three channels on tv and no cable tv availability. I think it's a disservice to the efforts now and to the power of social media, love it or hate it, and the crowd we have watching now. If you look at numbers generated by Beer Money and other outlets for their video postings, it's pretty incredible. Heck, I shot video in Freedom Hall in February when dirt was being moved and got over 20K views...OF DIRT MOVING. Platforms like Roku, Netflix and others haven't been fully utilized. Lucas Oil Racing TV is pretty proactive in being a source for pulling on-demand but there's room for more on the cord-cutting, anti-cable tv platforms. It only shows that the audience can be there, how do we engage it, and back to the original thought, pick up those who are looking for a new way to spend their money that they had been spending on football? We have the power, the noise, the sights and the ability to make a fan feel a run going down the track...its just a matter of filling all the holes from the moment they learn about the event until they walk to the parking area to leave... Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Lewis
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Ive been involved and around pulling all my life. Pulling is and always will be a rural area redneck as someone said motor sport that's dying along WITH the rural areas If it wasn't that its been a tradition with county fairs .They wouldn't even be having them now I was in the Army and knew lots of people that had never saw a cow or a pig much less a 4020 John and thought peanuts came from a tree and could really care less There is nothing out there to pull that crowd in and now theres not enough little farboys out there interested in it to keep things going.The local county only farm classes is what sparked a lot of our interest now theyre gone so weres the spark going to come from now ,I saw Mean Jean run a lot of times and loved it but to watch my Dad is what got me started and was why I was there to to start with not many can afford to pull so whats going to spark the next Generation if Joe Blow got shot last night I didn't no him so who cares thats the out look today |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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I’ve put some thought into this and as someone who has grown up in the sport I’m completed addicted. But at the same time I’ve never purchased a ticket for an event where our family or myself weren’t competing. I think the issue with new fans is how do you get them to relate. I love the idea of walk up music and think it should be employed in the states as it is over seas. Look at the professional wrestlers, the music sets the stage, but the thing they add is drama through a story. I think pulling needs that story line to truly grow and there needs to be some type of plot or side story that people connect with. Look at the show street outlaws and how it reinvigorated the drag racing scene. Or how fans of nascar focus on team rivalry of some of the big racing teams. I think pulling needs more of that not just a red/ green battle. People connect through a rivalry, cheer for the underdog, like to see teams battle, etc... we talked about doing something like this on a local level by splitting up our regional pullers in a class into teams of 4-5 small teams with one division like hot farm or mods. Points would be based on the sum of the team in addition to the standard individual overall points winner. It would help everyone top guys would ha e incentives to help button runners and fans get better show.
The pit parties and tailgates are great ideas too but with them come another set of headaches managing the party and keeping it safe so that party goers and the actual pullers don’t cross. No room for booze while competing. Yes the age of technology has changed thing but use it to your advantage. Appealing to the suburban middle class is how the sport grows and to do that they need a way to relate. Hp and torque are the stars but today’s generation needs immediate gratification. Without side stories and background pulling is boring. I myself have been boted and I love to pull. I even pull antique when we can squeeze it in but I’d rather watch paint dry than stare at Jd running in creeper gear all afternoon. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Joey
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maybe more media coverage with the "PROTECT THE HARVEST" type theme.All are affected by the new rules that are trying to be shoved down all of our throats and up the other end.Pet people,campers,RVers and most people are affected by some new rules and regs.NATPA was formed to unite and bring together pullers over 20 yrs ago,it did some what,with strict rules,set classes and a governing body,however all across our wonderful nation it did not happen,some Parts,Pieces and Tidbits were,are and will be used as universal,but never a wide acceptance for the full meal deal.Each area,region and or organization picks and pulls what they want from the National rules list.I have travelled to many states and clubs across the nation,not much in common for rules.I agree with Brian,many fans are fed up with NFL,money,salaries,political statements and opinions shown in the lime light are destroying loyalty.How tractor pulling can grow is a great question,some people are doing a great job,Brian L. is a good example.Beer Money Team is another,NTPA at Hutch.Mn. is a great place and venue for the fans,pit time for several hrs with in your face talks,live tuning and tire cutting,face to face with class champions and all competitors.Many of us are born and raised rural farm based pullers,our numbers have steadily declined,not sure what the answers are.Some venues are full of fans and the stands are packed,some not so much.Indiana pulls with the newly formed VTPA near Indianapolis and Louisville pulled in almost no fans in early Nov.and this venue offered some nice payouts and great numbers of entries.One big problem area is no "STOCK ' pullers any more,costs alot to build,compete,get to a pull and when you are not in it at the end,the fun is gone. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 01/20/2013 Posts: 61 |
To grow natioanally, I think you have to grow locally and build upon that. Set a good foundation if you will. For me, local pulls at fairs and festivals have a good crowd, but are getting smaller. Other pulls are a little lacking sometimes. Die hard fans will always be there. A lot of the complaints I hear from spectators is admission cost. I realize you have to gain some money there to help pay for the cost of putting the show on. I know our local fair did grandstand admission for the cost of a canned good for the food bank, the stands were packed. Our local indoor pull used to be packed inside. Then the promoter cut down on the number of hooks and raised the price to 20 bucks at the door to see 40 hooks. Most families cant afford 20 dollars a person (5 and older here,claim its because of insurance). Winds up being a 2 hour show. Some big pulls have disappeared, I agree. Like the old Indy Super Pull. Maybe exposure will help too. Have big picture goals, but start at the ground level. Thats just my thoughts. Everyone have a safe and happy new year! |
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"wonder"
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Dave Dann
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Just listened to a sermon entitled "Wonder". Very appropriate name for this thread, too. The church "wonders" how to entice people, especially the young folks to attend.
Doing some research before responding to this thread, are some following statistics: The U.S. FARM POPULATION is the lowest since 1820 when Farm Population comprised 72% of the total U.S. workforce. 1850 = 64% of total workforce 1900 = 38% " " " . Average farm size = 147 acres. 1920 = 30.2% of the U.S. Total Population of 105.7 million. (Official Census started this year) "From 1981 through 1987, the farm population has lost an average of 2.5 percent annually. In the previous decade, the annual decline averaged 2.9 percent." (NY Times) The 'go-go' years in the '70's & '80's in farm size combined with the overproduction and especially the super high interest rates from basically '79 through '84 certainly had a devastating effect upon U.S. and even world food production with the result of many people and especially the young folks exiting the farm for better opportunity usually found in the city. 1986 = 2.2% of US Total Population 1987 = 2.0% " " " " and there were 109 males per 100 females living on farms, compared with just 93 males per 100 females in the nonfarm population. 2008 = less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. 2012 = 3.2 million farmers, ranchers and other agricultural managers and an estimated 757,900 agricultural workers were legally employed in the US. 2016 with an estimated population of 322,762,018 according to an end-of-year estimate from the U.S. Census Bureau, meaning that we added more than 2.4 million people to the population over the course of the year. Just go stand at O'Hare Airport, in "Arrivals" and watch all the people coming through those doors and makes me "wonder" how many of them are here now permanently. This census, which is published every five years, shows that during the last 30 years, the average age of U.S. farmers has grown by nearly eight years, from 50.5 years to 58.3 years. So with all those stats, it makes me "wonder" if all of us in agriculture will see our avid sport of tractor and truck pulling survive. I was born, raised, educated and spent my whole long work career in agriculture. Growing up with tractors and trucks was just second nature. And have been since. I was involved with tractor pulling well over a decade before NTPA first sanctioned FWD truck pulling in '76. I have seen a lot of changes over my decades in agriculture (just like my granddad and dad) and tractor/truck pulling. The cost factor in both ag and pulling anymore are just simply astronomical and I see no end to it. Increased costs of anything today in business / society is the norm. It makes me "wonder" how us (soon) future retirees how we will survive, if not loaded with a (corporate) pension behind us. I think that certainly is the case with many in the workforce and especially those of us that have a long career being an agricutural employee. So back to the topic at hand that my friend Bryan Lively started. How do we attract more people to become, hopefully, an avid pulling fan. Do I have the real answer? Perhaps not. Do I offer a perspective? Yes. I already stated pulling at any level and especially at any of the national level sanctioning body event circuits are very costly, not only to promote but also to build, maintain and compete with a pulling vehicle. It makes me "wonder" how those longtime, pulling fan beloved classes will survive financially. And coupled with that "wonder" concern is likely an environmentalist backlash against the diesel smoker classes someday. If EPA comes after the pulling sport, that will definitely change the appearance of future tractor and truck pulling. That may be what it takes to finally get the sanctioning bodies to finally endorse computer controlled engine fuel injection. At Armada, MI the past two seasons, I watch the Farm Stock class. An obvious pair of stock JD 7810 and 7920 are so quiet on the track you literally don't even hear them and yet no smoke and yet place very, very well against the juiced up smoking older mechanical injection tractors including a very juiced up 6030 (which may have gotten beat by the 7810/7920 - I honestly don't remember - 2016. "cpr" may be able look the results). I am not necessarily keen on Farm Stock pulling but was intrigued by this. I do not mind Michigan Tractor Pullers 8 mph Farm Stock class. Thumb TPA has a 10 mph Farm Stock Plus class. At Armada, those same tractors do not have to abide by a speed limit and I really enjoy the three classes those Muscle Tractors perform in. Those drivers like it, too. But I understand why a certain speed limit is employed, too. IPL (Indiana Pulling League) debuted a 10 mph Farm Stock class in 2017. I saw its inaugural debut and was rather impressed. Definitely see how it can grow. My point of this paragraph is I truly believe it is classes like this that are relatively affordable for a puller. Likely this is a big area of a continuing pulling growth factor. But like I have been promoting for the past couple/three years, we need standardized national rules in these classes that are plentiful in so many various local brush pulling sanctioning bodies around the nation. Certainly will help the pullers and especially those willing travel outside their local area, promoters and the pulling event insurers. Glad to see the LLSS with a standardized set of rules, although many clubs still are not adopting them for various and understandable reasons. Appears like Hot Farm is attempting to become a national standarized set of rules now with NTPA becoming involved. I see lots of future potential with showcasing those two classes, too. And I believe all those classes mentioned above are a great combination for many thriving local sanctioning bodies. And I believe that will also help to attract more pulling fans as there will be more tractors and the local people will hopefully desire to go watch their relative or friend or neighbor. And usually, they bring more people to socialize with them, too. Now that is growing the pulling sport. We are seeing that with the diesel pickup classes. And that is where we see the young generation interest showing up. And that I believe is what we in the pulling sport promotion business need to be catering further, too, if we truly desire to put more people in the grandstand. I know they also love their means of telecommucation of which I certainly am not any where up to speed with. That, I will you leave to you soles that know all about it of how to really reach this young generation to attract them to pulling. Kudos to NTPA endorsing more of these classes. I was super pleased how the new PSD4x4-3.0 Turbo class was in their 2017 debut year. I even suggested it as a class some promoters are wanting to replace. A poster, "Joey" last night mentioned VTPA. Not knowing what it is, I googled it and soon found out it is Vintage TPA, headed by Tom McConnell. Searching its website, its pulling basis look to me like NATPA. Lots of weight classes separated by 250 or 500 pounds, at 3.5 mph and literally duplicated with 15.5" and 16.9" tires. Does not turn my crank! And from what Joey said, that was the case. But I attended a NATPA pull in 2016, because it was in conjunction with an NTPA pull. I had been wanting to see a NATPA out of curiosity anyways. So, it worked out well enough for my objective. Bryan was there, too. Very interesting to see what those pullers have done with those tractors. They are not afraid to spend the money, either. Speed limit is what holds back the engine potential that exists. But am I going to frequent that type of pull. Nope. And that was the case in the spectator crowd, too. So obviously, that is not how we are going to grow the sport of pulliing. Certainly not the young generation. After all, we have to count on somebody to fill the grandstand and help the promoter pay the ultimate expenses. Sponsorship is not paying all of them. Definitely, help, but the sponsors also want spectaors in the seats and hopefully coming in the near future to their business, too. And us oldtimers are not going to continue to be around forever. Us pulling diehards will keep trying until death doth us part. Personally, I hope that is many, many years away yet. I look forward to seeing how the pulling sport will change. Hmmm, "wonder" what that will look like in a decade? A few years ago when Warren Powers, the promoter of Twin Creek Motorsports near Inwood, Ontario, a once very thriving tractor/truck pulling attraction for pullers and spectators aike, was here at our home, I asked him what caused the demise of that once famed and revered clay power track event. His answer was simple. Demographics changed. Many of us baby boomers did not have the opportunity to farm, even though we grew up on one. Tractors and trucks and the smell of the freshly turned earth and harvesting the resulting crops were still in our blood. Having a means to return to our roots, was important. Pulling helped provide that avenue of continuing contact and relating. But our kids are now 2nd generation away from the farm and do not relate to the farm the same way. With their interests elsewhere, they went their route to find what is enjoyable to them. And their kids are even futher removed from the farm attraction. And yet they are the ones interested in all his modern day social technololgy and diesel pickups and are the ones in this thread we are attempting to entice to our beloved pulling sport. Meanwhile, I will keep bringing you more classic photos to my website, coupled with "Legends" stories (you're likely going to like the unique story currently in the works), pulling event coverage and current puller features. I have always overall enjoyed my pulling promotion role in doing such. Someone needs to help preserve NTPA pulling history. Trust you enjoy it all, too. "Wonder" how many of you read all the way through this? |
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Re: "wonder"
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Registered: 06/03/2008 Posts: 44 |
Dave, I think that you hit the nail on the head with your summarization of Warren Powers answer. The sport of tractor pulling that means so much to me is completely lost to my son (since he is yet another generation removed from the farm). And the cost to build and campaign a tractor is more than I could ever expect for him to bear on his own. I agree whole heartedly that there is much greater "young person" interest in the diesel 4x4 truck classes. I also believe that the future long term success of tractor pulling has to be tied to the success of truck pulling. Young spectators "late teens thru late 20's" are not afraid to spend the money or drive an hour+ to go to an event with friends if they can expect to have a "fun time".
We live in a society that thrive on "excessive stimulation" and anything less than that can be considered "boring" by some. Look at the news stations that have 1 or 2 crawls at the the top and/or bottom of the screen, at the same time that a news person is reporting on a completely different story. Charlie Brown cartoons that we enjoyed as kids have been replaced by cartoon characters that look and move just like a real human beings. Paying spectators (young and old) want and expect to be entertained from the moment that they walk thru the gates of a premium event. A 15 second hook followed by 3 or 4 minutes of "non-entertainment" will not build the fan base that we are looking to find...When you go to a concert, music can be heard from the parking lot, an hour or more before opening act steps on stage. The excitement is already building, even before you get to the gate...When you go to a Nascar event (and pay $100+ per ticket), everybody looks forward to visiting the rows of souvenir trailers and then even more people pay another huge price just to be able to walk thru the pits. Spectators will pay the price, if there is some fun and excitement to be had. Well run truck and tractor pull events can offer the same opportunity for excitement, but it takes planning and man power to make it all happen. Television coverage is great idea, but the only way that will happen (without paying the station to telecast the event) is to have exciting events that people will want to watch. I don't mean to sound like I have all the answers, but I know what I enjoy watching. Take some of the European pulling videos for example. For the most part, they are at a completely different level than the majority of our state events. If the tractors aren't pulling on the track, there are 3 other things going on (either music, or driver interviews or tee shirt tosses) or something else to fill the gap until the next tractor is ready to roar. This is a hugely important topic, and I know that I don't have all the answers, but I do know that to be successful, we need to aim our entertainment toward the younger generation and their spectator dollars. "Make it fun" and they will come. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2017 11:19AM by Wayne S.. |
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Re: "wonder"
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I also would like to believe that tractor pulling should be on all the major networks and an Olympic Sport, however the truth is the sport does not show well on TV. While I am glad to see it on the channels that have chosen to show it ( with the organizations actually paying them to run it) the truth is the sport should concentrate on keeping the fans that it now has. Every year the number of fans are decreasing, the number of events is shrinking and the clubs are not smart enough to STOP fighting over rules that only benefit them. The self centered me me me approach to writing rules is killing the sport. Here in NY they can't even decide if they can run the alcohol SS with the diesel SS. Never mind what the promoter and the fan wants to see, no it's all about me and whats good for me. Until pulling and pullers start looking at the big picture and realize they are in the entertainment business that offers many choices other than pulling then the sport will not grow and will in fact die. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: "wonder"
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Lewis
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Some local farm classes needs to be brought back into the picture At one time it put lots of local spectators in the seats.And I'm not talking about the larger events I'm talking about the root of pulling which is county fairs without county fairs there would be NO pulling .I am a nobody but I will Guarantee theres at least 50 people at my county fair that only come to se me and could care less if Chesik was coming with his three tractors but love it after they get there and se them ,To grow anything you start at the bottom and go up not the opposite |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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The one thing Nascar has on most every other form of entertainment is TV coverage.I find it hard to believe that the ratings are good enough for practice and qualifying and pre race to warrant coverage..They basically have three different divisions that don't compete against each other and their rule book is thick |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
I wonder if someone like Lucas could get slots the week after NASCAR and nfl end, same time, same channels. Try to catch their audiences. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2017 07:35AM by bp4455. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Builder
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There won't be big followers or excess growth until there is a standard set of rules. Outlaw has had growth with their box chargers but their LLP class doesn't make any sense. No need for a 466 motor to be on 24" tires. That class looks just like the superfarms just smaller motor. How do fans understand that. We need coast to coast uniform rules. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
Builder you make a good point. I have jokingly remarked before that if your class name has the word "farm" in it you should be on no bigger than a 20.8 tire,but is there some truth in that from a marketing standpoint? Right now if we put a pro stock, 4.1, 466 Limited Pro, Light Pro, and a Super Farm side by side by side, would the casual fan be able to tell the difference, appearance-wise?
Just as classes can differentiated in drag racing largely by speed and vehicle appearance, why not differentiate the classes by the distance they can go? If a fan sees a Super Farm go 320 and a Super Stock go 315 to win, their question is going to be "if the Super Stock is so much more powerful then why did the Super Farm go five foot farther?" Yes, I know....sled settings and track conditions can be explained for those situations. For the newbie fan explaining the nuance could shut them off...they are there for the action, as they should be and not a lesson on grousers and pan trip position. They want to see the loudest, most powerful machines go the farthest down the track, and shouldn't we as seasoned fans expect that as well? None of this is a knock at anyone in the game, I sure don't want it read as such, but some legitimate thoughts are being exercised and raised. It's still cold, it's a balmy three degrees here in Central Kentucky and I don't plan on being far from the stove and the computer until I leave for Gordyville Wednesday. Keep it coming! Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Builder
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I think a lot of it in the small motor classes is the drivers are afraid of power. They like to brag about hp #'s but dont know how to utilize it. Out in Ohio they run much bigger motor combos and are still on 18.4 rubber and weigh much less. It makes much more of a driver's class out of it instead of who can make the most power. Someone with 100hp or more less would still have a decient chance at winning.Small motor plus big tire equals a winner who can make the most power.Pretty soon they will want 30.5 on the superfarms. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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I think one of the biggest problems for the sport as a whole...RULES. Everyone wants there own rules and nobody wants to work together. The sport will self implode without the help of there being no spectators.
Some of the largest classes now seem to be Limited ones that have true regulation. On the national level, start putting some limits on the classes to truly regulate them. Even at that level you need to level the playing the field or the field will dry up. On the state level, get real with the classes. If you have a class or several that have 2-5 regular pullers, drop it. Stop trying to drag them along just to satisfy certain members, if they truly enjoy the sport they need to adapt to another class. Are there too many organizations, maybe. Although, most guys cant afford the time to drive 5 hours or more every week to compete. As with any event, if its taking excessive time between every hook you're not going to hold the crowd or get them to come back. Just shooting off the hip with some thoughts........... |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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cpr
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I had 3 ideas about this, but I can talk marginally faster than I can chicken pick.
Sidetracked Podcast |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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I don't think pulling will ever be a mainstream sport like Nascar and surely no where near the NFL in terms of popularity. Every kid in America plays football or baseball. Every person in America drives a car and can relate to Nascar in that way. Pretty limited number of people that actually drive a tractor. It is apparent that the younger crowd seems to like the trucks more than the tractors. I think that the sport needs to prioritize the truck and modified classes for television purposes. If you can get the next generation of pulling fans to understand the different diesel truck classes, then it will be easier for them to figure out all the different tractor classes. The modifieds are pretty much self explanatory and should be one of the easiest classes for a new fan to understand. Plus they add the "wow" factor. Until pulling can get some serious sponsorship money, it will stay the way it is. I'd be willing to bet that Budweiser spent a heck of a lot more on Dale Jr's car than they do on Tomah. I also agree with some people on here that there need to be uniform rules throughout the sanctions. Lastly, I also have to question why everyone thinks pulling needs to "grow" more and how big they expect it to get? 10 years ago winter pulls were unheard of, and now they are all over the place. Ten years ago no one knew about the Hillsboro pull and now it has 4 shows. I live in Sauk City Wi. I tried counting all the pulls within 50 miles of my house and stopped counting at 40. That's an awful lot of tractor pulling in a pretty small area. I'm curious to see how the Lucas pull at Michigan International Speedway goes this year. That could be a good barometer for how far pulling can grow since the place holds over 70.000 fans and is by far the biggest venue in the pulling world. A big turnout at a place like that could open some eyes as far as sponsorship goes. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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super freak
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you have to get the young interested and to help do that you have to let the parents bring in a small cooler with beer in it like nascar and have a few cops walking around so there parents will bring them to the show and not be aggravated when 90 outside |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Not likely to happen. Many fairs are 4H venues. No alcohol and never will be. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Not sure how a small cooler of beer will help to grow the sport. And not really sure about the cops walking around, just saying. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave Dann
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$20 for a good national pull is cheap entertainment. What else can a person do to be entertained that cheaply for the same time period?
If a person cannot have fun without an alcohic beverage, then they do not know how to have or enjoy fun. Indoor pulls have been around literally since the inception of NTPA founding. They are not the only ones since the early '70's hosting and promoting a pull. Certainly have been pulling during winter in big name stadiums in past - Silverdome, Astrodome, etc. TNT was very involved in that in a lot of big cities from Thanksgiving to end of March in '80's & '90's. What happened? Not exactly certain, but likely changing demographics, once again, which certainly has a big time effect on sponsorships and promoters finances, all vastly affecting the promoter's bottom line. cpr's podcast talked about current day sponsorship. How many of them are actively in their own internal promotion actually advertising and thus promoting pulling. Very few. That in itself is a problem of trying to attract new attendees. Is the sponsor ashamed of the sport who they invested in? Certainly, they are not receiving the best bang for their invested $$. My local O'Reilly Auto Store counter people do not know about tractor pulling or that their corporation brand name is a NTPA sponsor. And yet we live in a moderate sized city in the heart of the eastern corn belt where there is lots of pulling in a 3 hour radius, including a NTPA Region pull in our local city. Music - Basically I'm with "cpr" about not having music. Okay, I can see having some to fill some holes here and there. But please do not make it blairing. Then the question of what type of music will satisfy the masses. Please do not have music associated with rivalling pullers to add to the excitement of who is the best and who is going to beat who. Pullers are generally friendly and helpful to one another, during and after the competition. Why should it be portrayed the opposite? I have been to a couple pulls with music. Too much interference with announcer and overall proceedings of a pull, especially if a double track. A really good announcer will keep the crowd filled with good and proper information. And if a spectator wants to be visiting with someone, having (loud) music totally interferes. Overall, there already is enough noise at a pull. Dick, your STOP fighting over the rules is spot on. That situation in NY is almost half a century old. When will they understand and get it? It sure doesn't help put people in the stands. Bryan, I do not agree with differentiating lesser horsepower class with lesser distance. Do that to a SF and they will be uncontrollable. They already normally carry a high front end quite a distance off the line. Shorter track distance usually equates to a wild ride that can quickly be out of control. That is a (major) safety issue. Saw one event this past summer where they tightened up sled in too many classes. Not good results. Including vehicle carnage that should have never occurred normally. Still believe we have not really figured out yet how to get more people in the paying seats. Maybe we need to do like what Twin Creek did. Harry the clown antics - clowning around with whomever, having fun with the kids and handing out Jolly Ranchers, pulling a mini car (like a Cooper) painted in clown colors pulling sled with the car wheels abuzzing to a full pull with the announcer providing his own antics of why is that piece of junk on the track and he's only gonna hurt himself, etc. And then if Ezel the chicken man was there with his crates of live chickens in the back of his rusty '68 Chevy pickup, who flew out as Ezel proved that his smokey oil burning 454 can also make a full pull. Combine Harry & Ezel together at a pull and that was quite the entertainment. Maybe it is stuff like this we need to be creative with to help attract and keep bringing back avid pulling fans. Minimizing track maintenance time, while still doing it properly, has a big effect on overall time of a pull. And likewise with getting a puller from staging to the sled. It is always interesting to check the time data associated with every photo to see how long it is between hooks. And also to see when the crowd starts thinning out. It can vary some from event to event. With a common starting time of 7:00 PM, usually crowd starts thinning at 930. 1000 to 1100 is a big migration regardless of what is left to pull. Spectators still hanging in there watching at 1200 midnight are very scarce. Why pay full admission price if a potential spectator knows that he/she will likely not get to see the whole pull or certainly a very favorite class if it likely will be staged very late. That certainly does not put people in the seats either now or desiring to come in the future. Officials deliberately slowing down the pace of the pull, I believe, is counter productive. It is easy for us to figure out how to retain or increase the number of pullers. Can't say the same about increasing the number of paying spectators. But I keep going back to the fact we are ag based and a very tiny % of the total population and will continue to become smaller. Thus, how can we really expand our marketplace? Keep thinking. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I have been told when making comments on rules on the this site. To come out off the Stone age. This is the same, we can go backwards. Technology is and should be are focus. Everybody has a iPhone, iPad computer an TV's. We need to get parts of video on pop ups, commercials for are events . Right now Badger State is working on an app for line up , pull distance and results of classes . |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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I am approaching the big 4-0 and have been a tractor pulling fan nearly all of my life. When I was in elementary school right up through middle school, my parents used to bring me to watch the TNT pulls in Syracuse at the state fair. Those were the days. Seeing the likes of the Banter Bros., Bruce Hutcherson, Danny Dean, Coleman Wheatley, Tim Engler, and so on. Not only do I remember the tractors and trucks, I remember the haulers for those tractors and trucks too. For whatever reason there was, tractor pulls at the state fair stopped. And my interest died off for awhile too.
After college I started to get back into pulling again and going to all the local pulls. It was nice to see Smokin Joe still around and watch Boxler's at every pull I attended. And then I got a chance to go to Louisville. That was an awesome experience but soured me in a way too. I am a Deere fan but all of the pro stock tractors in Louisville were the same tractor with different paint schemes. It's nice to see tractors of a different color in a class, but, for years the pro stocks were dominated by green. Even as a Deere fan, I want to see some different color paint. There are just way too many classes and way too many different organizations to even pay attention to who's who and what's where. NTPA has different rules from PPL from Outlaws. The closest national pull to me is in Hamburg but they schedule over top of Bowling Green and Pike. If I am paying for my family to go to the pull, I want to see the best of the best. It sucks when you go to a pull and realize that your favorite puller or someone you would like to see isn't there pulling. I understand about breakage and the money it costs to pull these days, but, I don't want to go for 6 tractors to pull in Unlimited Supers only to find out that the rest are pulling someplace else. I think that competition in pulling is really taking away from the sport. With way too many organizations, it is the fans that miss out or keep us away from the track. In the days of old in Syracuse, there was constant action on 2 tracks and they had monster trucks performing in the middle of classes. Your favorite tractor would pull in 2 or 3 different classes (talking about super stocks), so you would get to see them plenty of times in a 3 or 4 hour session. It used to be that all fans knew the full pull mark was 300 feet. Now we have floating full pull marks, split pots, and we only get to see who we came to see maybe once in a 4 hour session. There aren't any pulloffs and guys are content with splitting the pot to save their tractor or truck until the next pull. I understand the money and travel it takes to building/maintaining a puller, but, don't you think that us the fans deserve the best show? There are so many awesome tractors and trucks out now, but, I want to see them go head to head, despite what organization they might belong to. Bowling Green is on my bucket list but besides there, where else can you see a mix of PPL/NTPA/Outlaw tractors going head to head? Less competing national organizations and less classes. It is nice to see diversity, but, I would like to see it done naturally and not putting any color sheet metal on any brand tractor. Sorry for the random thoughts. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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TV Show
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Bazinga touched on Street Outlaws a little bit. Personally I watch tractor/truck pulling on TV wherever I can find it, MAV, RFD, etc. whether it be PPL or NATPA, being a puller myself, it of course interests me. However.... Do I watch NHRA drag racing when I see it on, no... However I have been DVR'ing Street Outlaws for a number of years. So when reading this post, I took a step back and thought why I like it, there are some drag strips a few hours away from me, but I have little interest in going. Is it the drama the show provides (in my case), no, that part annoys me with the somewhat staged "issues" that come up. I think I associate with it more because these guys are not top level (myself I pull at a state level), so when they talk about over powering the track or hooking up to it, etc, etc or guys have engine problems and they are dinking around with Reapers push rods to hurry up and make a pass, I associate with that and understand their struggles. I find more excitement in other parts of the show then I suppose the regular viewer does, I am peering at the TV following whomevers boroscope around the screen when he is checking a cylinder for a hole, while I am texting on my phone while some hot heads yell at each other about jumping the light or something.
That being said, if pulling had a show like that, would it bring fans over from other motorsports (televised or not) like circle track, demo, figure 8, nascar and drag racing? I think it would, because it will get the exposure out to more motor heads like ourselves. However, like I said I have little interest in seeing the real thing, which does not help fill seats. So have we shot ourselves in the foot by posting pulls, hooks, events all over YouTube for free? Why go see it when I can just watch it on my pc or phone? I don't think so, because if we didn't then there would be no exposure at all (media/social media wise) and I do believe the exposure helps. Now if the Oklahoma Street Outlaw guys came to my/your area to have some grudge race in whatever area code, would I/you go see it if I/you knew about it? Of course, because you associate with that particular group of people and their cars/trucks. I have friends that race circle track, I go to watch them. If they aren't racing, do I go because I enjoy the sport that much, no... On the most recent episode of Street Outlaws they have a big money race at Bristol. They pack the stands there, however as they work through the bracket and some cars need a cool down time of 45 mins, next clip of actual racing you see the stands really thin out. Same with pulling, you can't have that kind of down time. Now I don't know what actually happens in between that, all I see is what most other viewers see is the edited TV version, maybe they had some filler races (I would sure hope so), you can't expect people to sit for 45 mins doing nothing. Looking back at that shows infancy, in the early seasons they were just a group of guys finding some street to race on and trying to avoid the cops. Now they have what looks to be a private street/strip to race on and if the camera veers off sometimes there are 100's of people around. So I think a TV show like that would help pulling if they took some state level group in say MO or something and followed it. Then maybe the MO guys go a little trip to pull in NE/IA/KS/IL/wherever some weekend. Then it will draw other pullers to that MO area because, "Hey, we may make it on the TV show if we go hook there this weekend." Then that said tractor/truck makes the TV show and gets seen by however many 100,000's or people or more, that truck then returns to it's home state to pull it's area and of course that creates some buzz and "state pride" if you will and begins to draw fans and this whole circle kinda repeats itself with other tractors and trucks and the sport should get a boost slowly but surely. I had mentioned before I have little interest in going to drag races, however if a racer would pop up from my home state on a Street Outlaws show, it would then interest me to attend one and actually watch this guy race other guys around here, maybe there are racers kicking his butt every weekend, I would be "intrigued" to go see... My 2 cents... |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Builder
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I would vote to say street outlaws is a terrible show. It is way over staged. It is almost as bad as that diesel brothers show. At least nhra racing it real stuff and you don't have to listed to all the bs. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Street Outlaws should be laughing all the way to the bank.They do have some fast neat cars but the language and drama are little too much .TV coverage really helps NASCAR and NHRA and Monster Jam and the drivers are well known and they know how to interview.Sheer power is unmatched in drag racing I help with a couple pulls and the semis ,pickup,and local class seem to have most fan appeal..Any down time loses fans and the more per class the better.The cost versus payout will always be an issue with competitors. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Very Funny Thread
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I find this thread really very funny!!!!!!!!!! There is more television coverage of tractor pulling than has ever been in its history. There are more fans to tractor pulling than has ever been in its history. There are more Facebook, websites, podcasts and etc. than has ever been in the history of pulling. There are more pulling organizations than ever before, be it state, national, local and etc. There are more pullers than ever before, just look at Bowling Green. When you get 60 to 75 pullers in a class it is kinda of crazy.
So lets define the issues, that way you can work to fix. 1. To many classes and to many variations of classes 2. To many organizations, which spreads out the fan base, the pullers and the dollars. 3. NTPA/WPI who did not protect the product when it was the Big Cheese and let every Tom, Dick and Harry piggy back off of their work and still do. They did not work to keep the organization a true national organization. How many NHRA's, Nascar's, NFL's, NHL's and the list goes on and on are there? Well GUESS WHAT there is only 1 of each. Unify the sport once again, limit the classes, return to what worked doing the so called hey day and pulling will be successful again. Will this happen? No because pullers are to stubborn to let it happen, organizations are to stubborn to make it work and who gets the short end of the deal? Pullers who want more dollars, promotors who want better classes and fans who want to see good pulling at a fast pace. Why would a major sponsor want to be part of this patch work called pulling? |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
You're very right and very wrong. No doubt with social media we've got a tremendous audience, way bigger than the "good old days" that I love too but honestly there's a bunch more eyes on the product now than there's ever been....now, that being said... How you're wrong: My query was about getting those disenfranchised football fans into the fold. We will never get them all, heck if we got 5% it would be a HUGE jump in viewership in the stands....Pulling is a family-friendly product, with a patriotic fan base...face it, the only way someone's taking a knee at a pull is if they lose their footing during the anthem. The reason why there's so many national organizations the original organization had something missing in it that spurred the interest in creating new ones. That's not a knock at the NTPA it's an observation, an opinion. There was room to change and grow and thats why we have the big three we do now. Are they all perfect associations? Of course not, nothing is. However they're a far better alternative than we see now with our #1 sport, the NFL that has gone from filling stadiums three years ago to pick-and-choose your seats at many events now....there's a good reason why Vince McMahan pulled 100 million of his own money from the WWE to form a new entity to bring the XFL back....he smells blood in the water and sees the opportunity to get those disenfranchised fans too. Yes we have more eyes on the sport than ever before...but why not welcome more into the fold? Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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"More patriotic" fan base? Just because it is entirely white? Maybe you could grow pulling if you tried to get more color in the stands instead of just on the track? |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
I think there's room to grow for a more diverse fan base and it's already happening at the Southern Invitational in Murfreesboro. After some lagging attendance due to weather and other events on top of the pull (titans in the nfl playoffs) Some good weather drew in a HUGE crowd for the great show that it is a few years back and it was as diverse a crowd as I've ever seen at a pull, and they're still coming. Having to stay at my booth I am apt to do a bit of crowd watching. I observed Asian-Americans, African-Americans, and other ethnic groups there....largely because Murfreesboro is home to a diverse group of people as college town and home to some great business and industry.....so....to draw "color" to a show, it must first be there, to an extent....and the show in Murfreesboro proved that as they advertise their event well locally to expand their customer base in size and diversity. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave Dann
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"Bazinga", I have only once, when in my early 20's, did I and a girlfriend ever attend a circle track car race. Neither of us could relate. How do you keep track of who is in what position out there in that mayhem of dirt, rising dust combined with an oily smoke and the noise? So what you describe, I still do not relate to.
"Very funny thread" - Your point #3. Do you realize that in just fifteen short years after its founding, NTPA was financially belly up? If it wasn't for Mr. Schreier offering a plan, combined with financial support along with lots of other puller investors, NTPA would not have even survived. And they had plenty of challenges during the next five years to try to keep everything together. And the sport changed immensely then, too. That is when many others saw an opportunity to start a new organization. Yes, they utilized NTPA rules as the basis. In actuality, that was a good thing because it continued to help to basically unify the sport to allow pullers to go pull elsewhere, regardless of sanctioning body. And yes, those organizations provided entertainment, brought in sponsorships and put people in the paying spectator seats. Most have disappeared into oblivion. "Stormy" - Have you ever suggested such to Don Slama? But then a promoter needs to be willing to attend, listen and learn. I know of some that likely never would, regardless of who is hosting it. Some promoters will not even go a neighboring very successful pull to learn from what they are doing. But Bryan's whole point here is: With all the disenfranchisement in the world of spectator sports, how do we in the pulling community draw in more spectators? "jdespguy" - Thanks for your 'fan' perspective. There was no need to apologize. We need to hear from more 'fans'. And the ones we really need to hear from are the Millenials. Thought I better 'google' to see if I had the proper term and age group. Learned there is also Generation X, Y and Z. Trying to figure it all out made my head spin. At any rate, pulling needs to attract the late teens to mid 40's to become, shall I say, avid and permanent pulling spectator fans. So, Bryan and Dick, here's your Gordyville homework, as if you don't have enough already. What percent of the pullers do you estimate to fall into that age group? How about in the spectator group? Now go forth and talk with many of them and ask what it takes to attract them to a pull? And what it will take to keep them coming back: this year and in future years? And anyone reading this, can offer your perspective and answer(s), too. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Still A Funny Thread!!!
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Mr. Dann
Will not disagree pullers and others saved NTPA, but by not protecting all the work that was done before NTPA went belly up and what has come after, it allowed for the void to be filled by others. Which makes for way to many organizations. I'am not saying any organization is bad. What I'am saying is, less is more. When pulls from organizations are stacked on top of each other date wise, it spreads the product thin and the fan in the stand does not get to see the best. Do we not wish to present the best product possible ? Most seem to think 3 organizations are great I'am not of that thought. If pulling desires to grow and add more fans then the 3 organizations need to work together and crown 1 true champion in the classes. Then you can build on name recogination of pullers,build rivalries, provide a united front to sponsors and truly make pulling a weekend event for a family to attend. Then the promoter has to do there job and provide needed entertainment. What did you see in the late 70's and 80's with NTPA? The best the country had to offer. I will agree with Mr. Barbee also. If you really just go to a pull to watch it is truly boring. It needs to be face paced, it needs have a better entertainment value and promoters need to work on that. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I couldn't agree more with stormy. Don runs a great show, just as BG does, and why because they care about the fans experience, they both know that the pullers will show up, however how to increase your fan base year after year. It's called consistent improvement
Make every year better than the last. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Bryan,
Good topic and an important one, been Pulling, involved in associations and GN Pulling all over the country for last 15 years, its not the rules or the classes, or the location (for the most part) , it falls back on the Promoters of the events! If Don Slama ran a National Pull Promoter School things would improve by 50% in 2 years alone. Then teach the promoters to offer other interesting things at the event, drawings like 50/50 or a giveaway etc. You need to have family friendly activites on site ie, lots of food vendors, crafts vendors, manufacturers Midway, and yes a huge area for sponsors to display and even vend their products, the promoter needs to get the community involved around the event, so everyone is coming together to do something great for that community! Just look at Tampico Indiana Pull, they don't even charge a gate fee, but half the community is there working to put on a whale of a event in a community that is basically a wide spot in the road. Promotion, bringing the community around the event, tying in the whole family with activities going on besides the pull, and back to my buddy Don Slama, if you run your event even half as organized and fast paced and equipment stocked and people carrying out their role on Q as they do in Hillsboro, the stands will need to be enlarged in a short number of years! Look at Chapel Hill Tennessee, Freeport Illinois, Henry Illinois, Tomah, none of these are near very large Towns, and Henry is a wide spot in the road, off the beaten path, a good hour from any real Metropolitan City! Pulling is mega interesting to everyone, even a CPA wonders how 4 Hemis can run together, and even a Housewife Loves to see a 50ft tall column of smoke blowing and wheels turning, but sitting on uncomfortable bleachers watching track maintenance for 5 minutes between runs, folks no longer have patience for, even me! Two tracks and a great track crew will turn your show into a huge success! Right here in Springfield Tn Pop approx. 18,000, we have a standing room only crowd every year, we have installed a new Grand Stand on one side, and plans to do the other side soon as possible. People I don't even know all year long stop me in the community just to make sure we are having that Big Tractor Pull again this year, and how they can't wait for it! BB |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave Dann
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"...funny thread", your quote is "What did you see in the late 70's and 80's with NTPA? The best the country had to offer." I completely agree.
But as with any business that hits a financial crack which allows other competitors to be born and / or gain a much better market base, how does the original business with all its challenges to survive, even think about bringing the now other organizations into its fold. We are fortunate that NTPA managed to survive and to continue its leadership in rules that apply to literally every pulling sanctioning body. Certainly has helped to keep everyone relatively safe. Your quote "I will agree with Mr. Barbee also. If you really just go to a pull to watch it is truly boring. It needs to be face paced, it needs have a better entertainment value and promoters need to work on that." AND Dick's quote " however how to increase your fan base year after year. It's called consistent improvement Make every year better than the last." I totally agree. Have any of you actually read all the way through any of my posts in this thread? That is what I have been saying. Have even offered suggestions to that objective. Actually have been for several years when these kinds of topics arise. Well, back to writing the Legends story at hand. And prepping for the next current puller story. Stay warm! |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Funny Still Yet
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Mr. Dann
The excuse of financial difficulty of NTPA is getting old. They have had time to recover and to work to the improvement of the sport. The old saying, " It takes money to make money ", I believe applies here. Not being privy to actual numbers of the 3 organizations and from what you here all have some issues at times, maybe PPL less so than the other 2 as it is backed by a title sponsor, which is a corporation in Lucas Oil. So with that said and as I said earlier "less is more:" There needs to be a untited front so as to make for a true national points race. With all 3 organizations working to gain sponsorship dollars it makes the dollars fewer for each 1 of them. Meaning they each have less money to work with. Taking a few steps back is not a bad thing, so as to improve the product for the fan who needs to be in the seats and to gain more fans. If you take the model NTPA had, that really worked very well and was successful. Then so called BIG 3 need to come together determine what they feel whould make for classes on a national level, agree to rules across the board on them. If they could do that, then select venues from each of the organizations they feel would be best suited to provide the fan with the best pulling experinece and set a national points race. Spread the dates out so a puller can have the time to be able keep his or her equipment in top condition for these pulls. Generally speaking and my thought would be 10 pulls across the Big 3, with the last pull being somewhat of a Super Bowl to crown the points champs and a major all out sponsor, media etc. event, which could get major national attention. Same as the other major motorsports not every puller has the funds or the money to do this. Thus the BIG 3 have as they do now, regional pulling for puller and fan alike who do not have time or the money to attend large events or for a puller who does not have time or dollars to pull national. This is somewhat how NTPA was and it proved out to be successful, just nobody was wathcing the hen house so as to keep it afloat. To Mr. Lively concern of attracting more fans from other sports that have some what abandoned their fan base, it is prettty simple to me. Do not be political in the sport you desire to improve by providing the fan the best possible experinece they can have for a reasonable dollar. Sports for lack of a better term is to be a get away for all the crap that is going on in the world, our country and day to day living. Let the fan dream of being a puller, let the Dad's bring they son's and enjoy a weekend, let family come and enjoy a day of getting away from all that goes on. I believe actions speak louder than word and you provide a solid day of entertainment and all who are apart of that entertainment welcome and encourage the fan to be there, it will be a great experience and more will come. We have let kids, parents and kids or who ever get in the seat of our tractor, take a picture and make a memory. They are dreaming and we are privileged to be able to have a pulling vehicle although not as successful as we would like to be. I hope that somebody or some organzation takes the bull by the horns and make things happen and all who are apart of pulling are willing to give up something to gain something bigger, because that is what it will takes. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
Mr Funny, I like your ideas. But why hide behind a fake name? First who is gonna step up ? The big 3 all have a lot pride in there product and my experience as a puller there are many that don't like change or are to stubborn to do so. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Funny
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Mr. Runkle
You are exactly correct PRIDE and stubborness is the problem. Why 3 organizations?, because of the vaccum NTPA left who had the right thing going. So now the BIG 3 need to swallow their pride, meaning organiztions and pullers alike and make it better, for ALL. Fan, Puller and promotor alike. To your answer of hiding behind a fake name and it may not be a good answer, but is my answer. Generally speaking if you have not made a name in pulling nobody listens to you or your thought, your are treated as nobody, just someone spouting off. Either because you do not pull enough, have not been around enough etc. Which is very narrow minded on those that have a voice and can make change. Vast numbers of nobodies have been great coaches, car owners and alike. May have not been the best players, drivers or whatever but changed their sport for the better. To the question of who should step up. I know who I would like to see step up and that would be NTPA/WPI. Why? because they have the history. All the others are here because NTPA was here first and the pullers of NTPA until the last say 15 years or so, did it threw trial & error, inovation and working to make it safe for puller and the fan. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave Dann
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Mr. "...Funny..." - I do not have any qualms over what you are saying. It is very well thought out and written. Thank you! It is a possible solution to the objective of this thread, 'how do you put more people in the pulling spectator seats'. I "wonder" if you happen to be Mr. Yantes?
Last night, while visiting with a friend, who likes attending tractor pulling, I asked him what needs to happen to get more pulling and avid spectators. He quickly replied, 'An announcer that knows his pulling stuff - rules, pullers & their current stats (wins, championships, points standings, family, profession, etc) - and can relate it to the crowd while properly pronunciating the name. Plus having a sound system that can be heard by all the spectators.' He said about half of the numerous pulls he attended last year were lacking in both of these departments. That does not appeal to the crowd at hand or entice their desire to attend another event. |
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You all are missing one important thing
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JSY45013
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First and foremost pulling only needs ONE national sanctioning body. There is only one NHRA, NASCAR, NFL, NBA, MLS, MLB, PBR etc. Dave Schreier May have kept things “stable” but he has failed miserably at growing the sport or maintaining control of his product. The whole reason NTPA came into existence was for uniformity and now everyone is bitc^ing that there is no uniformity. NO SH:T SHERLOCK! Egos need to be put aside for the future of the sport, much like they did in 68-69. Second, the most important I believe is the future generation. When I was a kid you could go to your local toy store and buy toys and go play Pulling at home. Monster trucks, who used to be a freak sideshow at pulling events got it right. You can go to any “box” store and buy monster trucks. Pulling toys should be right beside them. One step further than that though we need to digitize our sport for the digital world. An NTPA app with live event feed (free, paid for by advertising if you have a marketing strategy). Monster Jam is going to be at Raymond James stadium, pulling used to be in those venues. The app could also include track side and pit interviews as well as fan interviews. The Puller used to have a kids corner, kids would draw pics of their favorite pullers. GET THE FUTURE GENERATION INVOLVED!!! Give them something to feel a part of. WPI needs to send out cease and desist letters to anyone advertising “NTPA RULES”. Pretty sure the rule book is copyrighted and a membership fee is paid to SFI. Stop letting every Tom, Dick, and Harry piggyback off your legacy and hard work. PRN, Beer Money, i will give you an A for effort, but outside of our close knit society do you have numbers on new fans? Guys, we are all crying out for the same thing, but until we all agree to place our egos and pride to the side and come together for what appears to be the common goal; we will continue to kick this dead horse, bury it, exhume it and then kick it some more. FOR FU{KS SAKE I NEED DUCT TAPE, Going to wrap my head so it doesn’t explode. Come together or quit bit(hing and accept it for what it is and what it won’t be, due to a lack of vision by sanctioning bodies and Puller egos. Ask any of the organizations what their 5 year business plan and marketing strategies are. I GURANTEE they don’t have one other than, hope we get more events. FU{K. RANT OVER, I need a cold beverage now. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
The prime opportunity in the short-term is the winter pulls. they could call it something like the " winter Showdown". top three in points each division in each organization come together at designated winter pulls and a winter Champion for each division could be crowned. Start with pretty uniform classes like trucks and Pro Stock. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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300' Puller
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The Growth of the sport needs to look in other places then we are currently looking at?
Pulling Needs a different approach. I personally can't get into tractor pulling on TV and I have been around this sport for a long time. I have had many people over that don't follow to the sport to watch tractor pulling on MAVTV, Youtube, taped events and they all end up getting board and wandering off to something else. The entertainment value just isn't there on the tube that is. Most can't argue that. Tractor pulling "LIVE" has way more to offer then tape-delay. Phones, I-pads, and tablets are where the value is in video today. We need to shorten our videos at the pulls and add documentary and music to them along with more background on the drivers, their lives and struggles with the sport. Help people get more connected to the sport. Now I am going to jump off the deep end on this from here on out. So stop reading at any time, if you can't handle it. Mountain Biking is exploding across the world because many reasons not associated with the sport. This sport is revitalizing towns and communities all over the U.S. Lots and lots of articles about the explosion of this sport and the economic impact it is having all over. I go to events and can't figure out how they can draw as many people to a race as they do. It's a non-motorized event that for the majority of the race you can't see at all, everyone gets one run down the mountain (similar to pulling 1 run at each event) and pretty much all everyone sees is the finish. Fastest time wins the event!. Now, having said that what I have learned is Mountain Biking is doing some interesting things that we could easily incorporate at the events. They have down hill races all over the world. They have several organizations that sanction the various races. However, they have only about 12 major races that occur worldwide each year. These are events sponsored by ONE sanctioning body, same sets of rules all across the board. At those events, they are EVENTS. It's not just Mountain Bike Racing, It's a party, it's a reunion, it's a family gathering, Vendors of all types are lined up, bounce houses for the kids and family to enjoy, food vendors galore, All types of small stages for bands and other entertainment throughout the weekend. It's amazing to see the turn outs they are getting at all these races and events. If you google the sport there are countless stories from small towns all over the U.S. that are being revitalized because of Mountain Biking or are seeing such a increase in traffic that they are allocating tons of money to expand the sport in their towns. Bentonville, AR isn't just the home of Wal-Mart. It's also one of the fastest growing single track towns in the country. People aren't just going there for WAL-MART anymore. Tractor Pulling for many towns has done this to some degree, but only for one weekend out of the year. For some towns they have hit their high point with the sport and sadly some have come and gone. The sport needs to expand, the individual events need to expand and professionalize themselves, and finally our marketing has to get more geared at attracting new growth from the city farmers vs the country farmer. We are losing farm land at alarming rates. However, there are still farmers out there, just on a much smaller scale. EVENTS: Professionalize the event, add bounce houses, and other attractions. get local community involved. Parade through town, bands, other events tied into that event that weekend. Turn it into more of an entire community event. Certainly every community has something that all parties could benefit from. Create more of a festival atmosphere. Face of Pulling: Who is our face of pulling? Golf= Tiger Woods, NASCAR = Dale Jr, NHRA = FORCE Fill in the blank? Who is our face in this sport _____________? Television: Think short videos that document the sport more than playing delayed replays of tractor pulls. We can do a lot more with this. Weekly videos from events or interviews. [www.youtube.com] (Just one example). [www.youtube.com] (another example. check out www.pinkbike.com for more examples. Events: Get with all three organizations and take 4 of the top pulls from each event and run the same top rated classes that are going to help grow the sport at each of those events. Get someone to sponsor all this that relates to a different demographic of population. RED BULL ENERGY DRINKS, 12 event shootout of 2019. NTPA, OTTPA and PPL. Name the 12 events. Nationwide Pulling! 2019 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10 11. 12. My Classes that will help accomplish this growth are: Yours might be different. 1. Unlimited Mods, 2. Unlimited Alcohol tractors 3. Diesel Trucks 4. Pro Stock Tractors 5. Mini-Rods. Those would be the five classes that I would gamble on for the next five years to sell to the rest of the non-pulling world, Not saying that others can't contribute regionally, but these are going to our best shot nationally. We don't need to have events in large towns, we just need to make them more of an EVENT! Create things for non-pullers to do that will help bring more families to the event that weekend. Bounce houses, vendor displays, maybe get with the community and develop more of a community event that the whole town can benefit from. Have a band downtown with the state's best BBQ's having a smoke off that weekend at the event. I see to often to many events not getting their communities involved. Not expanding the event to include more events that will help draw new people to the event. Fairs are dying because they aren't keeping up with what the latest draw is. The action at the events needs to get better. Tractor pulls take too long and we don't highlight our drivers throughout the weeks leading up to the events. We need to focus more on the puller and their life. WE need that face of Pulling. People need to know what it takes to do this sport week in and week out. I have researched lots and lots of ideas over the past year. Yes it all has cost and Yes, it's all different then what we call pulling today. But, in order to grow into new living rooms across the country, new things have to take place. Now, I know Mountain Biking may totally seem like its a stretch or out in left field, but really isn't tractor pulling kind of out there as well? Both sports are played on the dirt, both don't market well to common television markets, both have events that are hosted in small towns worldwide. What I see as being the biggest difference is in the approach with regards to marketing. I think we can take little things from other dirt sports and incorporate them into our sport with success. We are not NASCAR, NFL, or NHRA. WE have to quite trying to be. Lets focus on the small things that will produce big results for the sport and not just individual events for classes. Agree or disagree, I am sure. It's just my idea. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,140 |
You got some good points there.
Some really raised my eyebrows, because from the European point of view it was like: "What you don't have that?" One major point stuck out. We had something happening to our national (German) Association lately, that boosted the attendance dramatically. Our three major events more or less collapsed under the big crowds.. out of paking lots, out of drinks, out of restrooms, out of food, ... Discovery Channel followed several teams over 2 years in the workshops. Actual runs shown per episode were maybe 7 to 10, but you got all the drama behind the scenes. All of a sudden we had "city folks" running us over, going after autographs, buying merchandising, cheering for their "TV Hero". This became pretty visible as Discovery had choosen for some teams that were not really that popular before and all of a sudden had a significant fan following. http://www.dmax.de/programme/full-pull/ They've stopped the program after two years as they couldn't get any sponsors for the show, despite it having the highest viewing numbers on that channel. This wasn't that bad for us, as we could pretty much cash in on the paying spectators and they keep playing the show. Another thing I figured yesterday, watching that Gordyville Live stream: There were endless minutes of nothing going on and the announcers not saying anything. Jason Schultz actually did a good job, when he was around, joking around with the spectators, interviewing drivers, etc. To give you a little idea how our announcers work here: Here's a little video of a really little brush pull in my neighborhood. Start it at 3:36 min. They deal with your normal crowd and then build up the tension. video: [youtu.be] then go to the second part: [youtu.be] Talking about of having a crowd all fired up with a low budget rpm limited 2.6" inlet hot farm class of 22 tractors... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2018 05:01AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
A real good announcer is a huge asset to a pull. I haven't gone to Bowling Green since the 90's but it was a good time. Good announcers and lots of action. I think a two track pull solves a lot of issues. There is less down time and a mix of vehicles with more constant action. Our local fair pull hasn't had a good announcer for a while and it really grinds me when they can't even give results. Keystone has good knowledgeable announcers with a sound system that could use a lot of improvement. They also do a good job of filling in dead time with shooting the tee-shirts into the crowd. An above poster claims a color war isn't important. Really ! Isn't that what started tractor pulling ? I'm a green fan but also a puller fan. That is always fun too. Having a fun pull to watch which involves the crowd means success.
Sascha I see you have a New England Patriot fan over there. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
Maybe every tractor pull should have a free Pedal Pull for the kids , (that could pull in a lot of families), and put it on the big screen in between hooks. It'd be fun if there was an announcer hyping up the kids " just like the grown-ups". Make the kids want to come back and the parents will come back too. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2018 07:30AM by bp4455. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,140 |
you've gotta keep the kids and wifes entertained. Be it with free rides, pedal pulls, ... you name it.
If dad can't watch the tractor pull "in peace", you're having a problem. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2018 11:54AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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I've spent the last few days reading and re-reading these posts. I've been thinking about this for several years myself. A little back ground on me so you know where I am coming from. I have been watching and attending NTPA and local pulls since the early 80's and started competing myself in 2010 (when I finally had enough money to build a reasonable puller). My second year of pulling I competed at Tomah and the Scheid Diesel Extravaganza along with a handful of other national level pulls. I've now done so multiple times as well as several local pulls and have won regional points championships. So, I'm by no means an expert but I have some experience. I'm in my early 40's and work in a very non traditional pulling industry (Non-farming, non-mechanical, non-industrial...etc). I have the pleasure of having a woman in her early 30's in my life along with her brothers and sisters who are all in their early to late 20's. Although, they support me for what I do and are in awe of the work, determination, cost and time it takes to pull they also never miss an opportunity to give me a hard time about all the faults in the sport. So with that lens and focusing only on the national level of NTPA and PPL here are my suggestions:
1. Make a concentrated effort to focus on social media. If you didn't know it already it's thought that Facebook is really for older people now, and YouTube is for the pre-teens mostly. Snapchat and Instagram are the place where key demographics for advertisers spend the majority of their phone time. 2. It was mentioned already but come up with a "reality" show that focuses on a few teams or the points race for some of the top or up and coming classes. 3. Limit the number of competitors in the national, GN and SGN or Champions series pulls. Watching 40+ SF, TWDs....etc. gets boring for even the non-casual fan. Even Scheid has qualifying for the limited pro diesel trucks so there aren't 40+ trucks going down the track during the show. Keep the show interesting for live fans and fans on TV. I'm pretty sure Hillsboro limited TWD to pre-commits only as well. Any more than 15-20 vehicles in a class is tough to watch. 3. Rules-already mentioned and most of the national classes have similar rules between the different major organizations but not similar enough. 4. Differentiate and limit the classes-Diesel truck pulling is going through this now and it's a bit painful but in the end will make it better for every one. I can't count the number of true tractor classes (not minis or unlimited Mods...etc) at the national level and can barely see the difference between a SF, Limited pro, Pro, unlimited from the outside. Whats hot farm versus a SF versus a PF? Why is there a need to have a heavy and light class? Consider 3-4 classes max. 5. TV interviews-There are a lot of very smart pullers out there and guys/girls that probably know more about physics, thermodynamics, and fluid dynamics that most people but when they are interviewed on TV or radio or you tube they look like Ricky Bobby. Spend some time setting up the interview, prepare some questions and prepare some answers. The big organizations should employ PR folks that help craft messages and language that gets the point across that you are trying to make. When I watch NTPA on TV the commentary during the pull is relatively well put together but when they go track side for interviews or in the pits its a very different perception. 6. May not be logistically feasible but try three wide tracks or have a minimum of two tracks going. This really helps move the show along for everybody. Most national events do a nice job of this already. A few minutes in between pulls is not bad but 5-7+ minutes is a killer. Replays on the big board also help to pass the time. 7. For tractors it would be nice to see something other than red and green. I think you can still stay true to your brand but mix it up a little on the sheet metal. think NASCAR or FWD or TWD....etc. Brad Moss does a nice job. Everybody knows its a JD but it's not just JD green. For Diesel FWD trucks everybody knows which dodge is Van Hasley's or Shane Kellogs or Brad Deeters from 320' away but they still know they are all Dodges. 8. It was mentioned before but try a big venue in association with another large event such as drag racing. I sometimes equate truck and tractor pulling to College Wrestling. Fairly niche and hard to explain to the novice but it can be successful when paired with the right advertising and association. I can think of a couple examples. Typical college wrestling crowds are 5,000-10,000 at most for a dual meet. The Minnesota-Iowa match a decade or so ago broke the NCAA record by having the dual at Target center and promoting it. It had about 14,000 people, it was a decade later before it was broken when Penn State and Pitt did it before a football game and brought in 16,000. Two year after that 42,000! showed up for Iowa-OSU before the football game. Monster trucks have around 1500 hp, most SF are close to that and most other trucks and tractors make double that. Have the event in a major sports venue and advertise that fact. I bet you would have fans coming just to see 3000hp go down the track. 9. Do more to display advanced stats on replay boards and prior to each pull. Wheel speed, engine RPMs, Sled resistance, G forces, engine temps....etc. 10. Maybe the most radical change of all....Consider heads up pulling side by side and do it elimination style...... Yeah tracks are different and sleds are different but drag racing seems to have no issue doing it....... |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
In my own mind I roll out onto the track to the sound of the beginning of Ted Nugent " Strangle hold" LOL |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 02/09/2010 Posts: 237 |
I see several people saying to get pulling in a bigger city type of venue. A couple years ago there was a high level pull held in Sturgis during the Motorcycle rally. How did that do? With a half million gearheads and rednecks in the area, I would think if that didn't work, no city crowd is gonna have a chance! |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Here some hints on what u need...I've only been watching and been involved in pulling since bout 1980 and I was born in 76...what the 1st thing u see or hear in a baseball or wrestlin/monster trucks??..a theme song...hence rocky song 4 rocky when she rolls out on the track...throw ur pimp lights on like the big rigs do and then let er rip tater chip when the flag is thrown. ..why do u think cletus McFarland is such a hit |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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safety
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We sure do not need more noise at an already noisy pulling event. Its also a safety aspect. The driver needs to hear its engine and be important for the track officials, too. And my hearing isn't what it used to be due to much too noise from many various venues in life.
Lights, let alone flashing, are not allowed, at least at NTPA, for the simple reason called safety - track officials eyes do not need to be blinded. Some have suggested, hyping one puller against another. Pulling is a family sport, where for the most part, people can learn what sportsmanship is. Becuase, other than a few isolated situations, the pullers are not only competitors on the track but more importantly, friends they respect and most will do what they can do to help one another. And the families intermingle in fun and fellowship. We do not need to turn pulling in the eyes of the viewers as a grudge match. That will most likely turn away a lot of fans. We cannot afford such. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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It's such a different world today than it was years ago. This subject reminds me of the story I heard last year of the gentleman that took his young son to a major tractor pull and after the first diesel pulled he wanted to leave because he didn't want to watch them pollute the air. I want to apologize in advance for changing the subject, but these posts have brought back a memory I can't quite complete and maybe someone can help. I've attended many pull venues over the years and can't remember which one it was, maybe Louisville I'm thinking, that used to have a clown or clown like person entertain the crowd between pulls or classes with on track antics that I found really entertaining back then, and I think I still would. Seems to me a pedal tractor and firecrackers were employed and other such antics if I remember right. Can anyone fill me in on this? Too bad we didn't have youtube back then. Would love to see old videos of this. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Kip 1456,you might be thinking of Go Go the Gorilla. I think that was TNT. He had a little three wheeler that he rode. I don't recall for sure but that is what I seem to remember.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Dave Dann
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"Kip 1456", much earlier in this thread, I talked about Henry the Clown and Ezel, the chicken man antics. Henry started at Warren Powers Twin Creek pull in Inwood, Ontario. Ezel also did his antics there, too. And they both individually and collectively did many other pulling venues, too. Probably mostly on TNT circuit.
I suggested we need to do something like that again. Then I got criitcized for 'we cannot go back in time'. My response to that is, if we cannot learn from history, then we have not learned anything. "300' puller", "sascha", "takedown 95", "michaelghenry" - Thanks for your time to really think out and share your thoughts. I may not agree with every point, but, that is what this chatboard and thread dialogue should be about - an open discussion to help improve our pulling sport. I much appreciate your contribution. And trying to promote pulling today to the everchanging demographics is what this thread is about. Particularly to the 'younger' people. Thanks for everyone's contributions. "Big Chief Massey" - Personally as a photographer and a story writer, I like that idea as most of the time I have no idea if there has been a sled change after a test hook. If they changed a weight block, that is easy enough for me to see from the opposite end of the track, but if the sled operator changed a quick sled setting, that is unkown to me, unless an announcer says so. But most of the time, I am not in a zone to (adequately) hear the announcer. Seeing in writing the sled's total weight and knowing the distance where box tops out just adds to the intrique of tractor/truck pulling. Understandably, the sled operators likely will not like this idea. |
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Re: Something to chew on in this cold weather....
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Registered: 07/22/2014 Posts: 197 |
Back in the early 80's I use to accompany a guy that ran modified 4wd pickup. Occasionally we would hit a pull that ran pickups against tractors. And they evened it out by weight. And they had it figured out quite well. Never knew what, tractor or pickup, would win or by how far. Made a very interesting class. And everyone had someone to root for. Haven't heard of or seen one like that since. The crowd loved it.
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Promoter Ideas
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Registered: 04/28/2008 Posts: 20 |
Most of my thoughts for the question of how do we attract more people to become, hopefully, an avid pulling fan reflect around the family and what a few others have mentioned.
Some thoughts if I were promoting a pull: Since liability in the pits is an issue, bring a few of the pulling vehicles to the entrance so that the fans can get pictures and the kids can get into the seats. If I were asked to do this, I would ask one of the producers of the puller cards to make some so that they could be passed out to the kids. I remember one time just a few years ago of telling the parents that their child that he could get in the driver's seat if permitted - the parents were thrilled and took pictures. Local radio station live action broadcast - our local Froggy country station has a prize wheel and the last time I saw it was at a pumpkin farm. Gave away small bottles of oil, bumper stickers, etc. Funny how many adults wanted to win a bottle of motor oil. Have the radio station ask the kids what tractor or truck they are cheering for. Potential for free promotion leading up to the event. Get the local paper at the event to take pictures - one going down the track, one of the crowd, one of an excited kid. Interview a driver and his background. This way it is not live (as some have said is an issue like TV interviews) but will still end up on the newspaper Facebook page or online edition. Our local paper used to have articles... but haven't seen that in years. Someone mentioned bounce house. Need to have a kids zone. Amazing how ten buckets from the dollar store, four boards, and 3 dollar corn can keep the kids happy. The mall has a playground for a reason as do most ball parks. Free face painting for the kids. Then the kids could get their JD green, IH red, AC orange, etc on. If there is room on the grounds a free hay ride. I know a lot of people that drive north from Pittsburgh that pay $14 in the fall for a bounce house, corncob beach, hay ride, etc. People have mentioned a t-shirt toss. Get a local sponsor, get a simple t-shirt design (don't put a year on the shirt), and have a t-shirt giveaway to all kids 6th grade and younger who attend the event. If the promoter gets a local sponsor to pay for the shirts, it could turn into free advertising and other kids asking where they got the shirt. We did this for our youth sports camp and it was amazing how the late winter session doubled in numbers because every kid wanted a shirt. Doesn't have to be t-shirts. Could be towels, drawstring bag, anything that is free...kids are happy for the evening and parents feel that they got something. Have spectators put their tickets into boxes to win prizes. Simple items such as hats keep the old man in the seat happy. Amazing how many times the old man comes home with a new hat from the feed mill, dealership, etc and thinks it is a million bucks. Have one or two pulling vehicles go to a local store, mall, Tractor Supply to promote events. Back in the day the Western PA Pullers used to have pullers on display with a kids pedal pull & advertised the upcoming season. Our Tractor Supply sits right outside of the city..having vehicles on display would bring questions and possible interest. Give away some free tickets and maybe someone that has never been to a pull will attend. Kids at the ball game run the bases. Before the vehicles start up and the event starts, let the kids get on the track and run the track (also a good way to kill 10 minutes since I have not been to a pull that started on time since...). Then parents will be taking out their cell phones and taking pictures of their kids. People have mentioned the funny skits of the past. Wisconsin has sausage races, Pittsburgh has pierogie races. Have a farm animal race between classes for 300'. The kids would get a kick out of an Archie McPhee horse head running down the track vs. a chicken, cow, etc. Fireworks? Doesn't have to be at the end, could be between classes as soon as it is dark enough. And it doesn't have to be very long...amazing what a few fireworks does for the kids. I agree with the above posts about a good announcer. Just the other day a paper came in the mail asking for background information, hobbies, etc. When we get new spectators that don't know the sport, they can still relate to the brand of their lawn mower, where a puller works or what he/she does, where they are from, etc. and a good explanation of what is going on and the objective. The promoter would have to have a person in charge of organizing these items and also not rely on track crew to do it. In the off season - promote the sport by donating shirts, tickets, photos to a farm toy show or other local event for door prizes. Get with the local tractor dealership - most have an open house in February or March - put a puller on display & most schedules are ready by this point (unfortunately most open houses on during the week and not on Saturday). I wish kids 10 and younger would get in free, but this won't happen. But in the same token I have seen parents get charged anywhere from $10-$20 for a toddler to get into a pull. I like the idea of a canned good - bring a canned good for the local charity, the kid gets in for free. Kids are fascinated with pulling vehicles, trucks and tractors. Bought our neighbor a toy tractor for his 1st birthday. He loves looking at the pulling tractor in the summer and guess what he wanted for Christmas? Tractors. He always wants to see the pulling tractor start up. People have mentioned demographics have changed. True, but have we promoted the event to those demographics? My neighbors ask a lot of questions about where the pull is and when the next local one is when the tractor is on the trailer in our housing development. |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
That’s the best idea yet |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
Great ideas flowing here. Interactive activities that engage fans more than simply being a butt in a seat are a wonderfulbmeans to keep the fans coming back. Bryan Lively -
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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Registered: 01/11/2012 Posts: 66 |
Bingo!!! One only needs to skim your post to see you hit the nail on the head. Folks can argue rules and politics all day, nothing will change.
Took my daughter to the Buck Pull Off last fall. Promised her ice cream. Guess what, NONE to be found there. How many thousand dairy farms are in Lancaster County? She was so upset we left early and drove to BK for a milkshake. A Lady and her daughter were directly in front of us at the food stand asking for same thing, think they're coming back??? KISS - keep it simple stupid. It really is the simple things. |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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Posts: 171 |
Some people were talking about how to distinguish classes. Obviously a seasoned puller or fan can tell a difference between a Pro Stock and a Super Stock Diesel but I agree that to a casual fan it is a tough call.
I was thinking about this: How about every sled have a board (electronic or like a gas station price board) that tells the total weight of the sled and at what point the box tops out. For example, it would have a sign on it for the Super Stock that says **TOTAL WEIGHT: 55,000 LBS. BOX TOPS OUT AT 230 FT** That way, the fans can see the actual weight and the different sled settings that are stopping these machines! |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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For the televised pulls, I think you need a consistent camera angle at the end of the run. It's fine to have a bunch of different camera angle's, but the final camera view should be the same for all pullers so the fan watching at home can tell how far each puller actually went compared to the other ones. This will help people understand what's going on a little more. I also think they need a "first place line" like the NFL's "first down line". It would add some excitement to each run because it would make finding the first place marker much easier for the average fan. |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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Registered: 07/22/2014 Posts: 197 |
Back in the early 80's I use to accompany a guy that ran modified 4wd pickup. Occasionally we would hit a pull that ran pickups against tractors. And they evened it out by weight. And they had it figured out quite well. Never knew what, tractor or pickup, would win or by how far. Made a very interesting class. And everyone had someone to root for. Haven't heard of or seen one like that since. The crowd loved it. |
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Re: Promoter Ideas
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LEWIS
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I remember them classes light supers trucks and v8 modifieds all in the same class and with the rules the two wheal drive trucks would give them a run for the money it was a run what you brung class |
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