The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 08:04AM
The one topic that I heard over and over at the NFMS from pullers in a variety of classes was “ we can not keep spending money like we have been” . It didn’t matter if it was a 1500 HP class or a 10,000 HP class, the story was the same.

I believe that if you looked at the HP of a PS in 1990 it would have been in the 1500 range and I’m sure that if you told the owner of that PS that in 2018 you would be way on the plus side of 3500 HP he would have laughed in your face, no way he would tell you, impossible. Well we are there, with no end in sight. And the same could be said for all most any class in pulling. I know the current chatter is component Lt. PS and even the 4.1s. Maybe it’s time to put a limit on the Lt. PS and 4.1 class now before we get to the big dollar, high maintenance vehicle that will surely drive cost up and numbers down.

It’s time for the leadership of pulling to stop asking the pullers what they want and write rules that will keep the sport healthy. I have the feeling that in public must pullers will tell you don’t want their class backed down at all, however in private they are just waiting for some common sense rules that help them to be able to afford to compete in the class and sport that they love.

I realize that there are teams that money is not an issue and R&D and bigger and better is how they operate. Unforntally pulling should not be a bank account sport. I know that pulling is expensive but with sensible rules the sport can be as exciting and maybe numbers will grow.

Now before I get the argument that rules just drive cost up and not down I would challenge you to prove to me that it’s as cheap to run a PS than a SF, as cheap to run a 650 Open SS than a LSS. And I will also challenge you to prove to me that more HP translates into a better show. Is the Open SS more exciting than the LSS, is the PS more exciting than the 4.1 or Lt. PS. Are the NTPA 5 engine Unlimited Mods better than the PPL 4 engine Mods. And are either of them more exciting than the NTPA 2 engine Lt Un. Mods? Every class has rules, pulling does not have a class that is not restricted. As said before the comments that I heard over and over was the cost is killing the sport. However I fully realize that nothing is going to change in the PS, DSS, Open SS or any of the Mod classes, but it’s not too late to save the 4.1 and Lt. PS classes.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 09:49AM
I run a LLSS. This was to be a cheap class to get into. And technology has increased the cost, because if you don't spend or update your behind by ten feet. Granted with the limits and rules in place. If you spend wisely you still can keep up with good driving and good maintenance on your tractor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2018 09:54AM by David Runkle(earls dream).
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 09:57AM
Does a tone know what the biggest charger anyone in Light Pro is running now?
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 02:33PM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
I run a LLSS. This was to be a cheap class to get into. And technology has increased the cost, because if you don't spend or update your behind by ten feet. Granted with the limits and rules in place. If you spend wisely you still can keep up with good driving and good maintenance on your tractor

Dave, you said a MOUTHFULL there! Why is it so hard for some to figure that out? Excellent post!
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 10:32PM
A little different twist about the money spent on high dollar horsepower.
If you spent five times the original cost for a fuel pump for your $ 250,000.00 farm tractor wouldn't you expect it to last more than one season...or maybe not lock up before you got it in the field.
If you spent $ 5,000 for a part on your $45,000 farm tractor wouldn't you expect it to carry a one season warranty...or at least some warranty, (I know, not a chance.)
My point being...... we spend thousands on so called high performance parts. A lot of which are simply tweeked test models or untested new versions of something, with us paying through the nose for them . Not singling any one supplier out, but they are all making more money off the game than the pullers. Perhaps they should pony up some sponsorship money for these organizations to get some returns to the pullers.
As far as pulling getting more expensive......really ...what isn't. Bought a new combine lately?
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 10:01AM
I am currently running in the limited pro class and would tell you I would rather have some limits on it to keep the hp down and the tractor together. wouldn't say that in front of the guys im running with tho.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 10:34AM
I agree, 15 some odd years ago I got into pulling. Ran a 600 ci super farm with a gt42 turbo. It was fun, affordable. Fast forward I can no longer play in that field. Bigger pumps, higher dollar turbo, all added up. Didn't help the class any.
A ps today wouldn't make 3500 if it didn't use billet pump, billet head, etc.
It's happening to all classes the high dollar recast or billet pumps and heads now blocks.
I can understand them parts in an unlimited class, that's why it's unlimited why keep changing rules to build more hp in the others?
Granted technology has played a role in all classes but Let's face it the farm economy is not the greatest in years and ppl just don't have the extra money to play.
As hp and technology has increased over the years shouldn't rules be more tight, smaller turbo, restricted pump size to keep a class more in check....
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 12:00PM
I think Cope is running a 5 inch turbo. Not really sure what the other big turbos are running.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 12:15PM
All the above is what i preach to the pullers in the LLSS class like Dave said people forgets why all of these knock off classes gets started Actually none of these classes are new they are just classes thats been started over
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 12:23PM
Outlaw 4.1s have it right, 13mm p pump limit and box charger.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 03:34PM
16mm pump
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 12:25PM
Its way too far gone now. Billet blocks should have never been introduced. In the light class along a $1500 waste gate set at 80Lbs would have kept the cost down and saved everyone a pile of money. Pulling is no longer anyone can go have fun in its all about how much they can spend
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 02:39PM
Quote
smuggler
Pulling is no longer anyone can go have fun in its all about how much they can spend

EXACTLY! And that's why NUMBERS have gone down in CLASSES so new classes have been made to save money when in fact those new classes will spend just as much and then those numbers will go down also.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 12:50PM
It is a sad truth, but a very exact point. I know with 3 kids I can't play anymore. I think it is to far gone and it is already over. You limit who can play so much by the Wallet soon there will be nobody left to play the game. All I see on here is bashing and this at was one time a great tool to pullers. To be honest I gave up on it all, including this site simply because the crap. Thank you so much for saying what we all have been saying for years and I hope now they listen. Sure it's a pride thing or a ego thing but it doesn't have to be all about the money. This needs to reversed or the will be no future. How is a young person going to start pulling at that level.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 01:21PM
AMEN !!!!! Best subject talked about in a long time
This applies to brush pulling also
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 01:50PM
like him or not but doug Roberts saw this coming a few years back and started the process of having limits and scaling everybody back in a few classes I DO NOT PULL but if somebody researches this page enough you will find the threads about this topic I do not know exactly what classes or limits were effected but doug did start this a few years back with the outlaws and p.s. to AV am I correct on this thanx
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 03:40PM
I agree with a lot of this.

I like the rules Outlaws have.

But if the rules don't have a good balance with other clubs/regions, when money is tight like with 3 dollar corn, your pool of pullers can can get a little tight. Especially when asking them to run 20 plus times for points.

We are always having this conversation as the pulling landscape changes. Doug started a lot of good ideas.

Ultimately we want good competition and good numbers for the promoters.

2500 hp or 2000 hp the sled stops the winner at 320.


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2018 03:42PM by AV.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 11:32PM
Well said. Speaking as a fan, DSS is my favorite class. I think if you had a class made up of the 12 lowest horse power DSS in the country but it was competitive with nice looking equipment and big smoke, that class would be the most popular class in just about any local organization. Everything is relative. If cost saving measures are taken in any class, it will still be a heck of a show from the fans' perspective.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 21, 2018 02:49PM
First off I will challenge PS to SF. HP to dollars spent there right on up there. The end result is PS spent more tho right. Well if the same guys dropped down to SF. The money would get spent just for less Hp. Then the people that run SF because of budget are left behind. Not everybody can afford GN PS. I'm glad for that. I wouldn't want to compete against that money at local level SF. Far as light pro a good G trim will run. Or go bigger just as cheap. A lot of older PS turbos cut down will run great. But soon as you limit that the price tag will go sky high. Same on air side how many special air wheels got made for that. At one time I bet that was 50% of Harts business. Why to get 20 HP more than next guy. I will also challenge rules are cheaper. First off SF smooth bore to slot will account for at least two or three turbos each. Then where turbo measurement taken. That's another. No after cooler to after cooler two or three of them cause they get better. Let's not forget letting P8600 in. I really think ought to leave things alone up or down. A good example is the Mac Daddy Team. They run SF for years. When they started kicking the local guys around hard. They moved on and moved on they did. Or maybe sometimes swallow some pride and drop class. But why should I sale or change my ride cause someone else can't afford. It's not always money to get up front unless you want to pay someone else do your work for you. Just remember we choose to do this. Plenty of other thing to do.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 01:25AM
I can honestly say I do not like doug Roberts and I sure didn't like they way he approached things when he was running outlaws. I do not say that just to bash him but more of a set up to what I am about to say. It took me a couple years to realize he had it right when he put the limits on some of these classes. break downs are going to happen and that is part of pulling, but it seems like their machines have fewer break downs than what some of the major Pros, limited Pros etc. just last year how many 4.1's split their block? I didn't see that on any of the outlaw 4.1s. i also realize that there is always going to be someone that out spends the rest of the crowd, but atleast maybe there is a great equalizer that could help out somewhere. the class that i think really brings this subject to light would be the diesel supers. it used to be one of the best classes/ most favorite for fans. now there are only a handful left in the country and they are all red for the most part. coming from a red guy, that gets boring as he&&. maybe we need to all take a step back and look at the whole picture before we spend our selves out of a sport..
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS March 06, 2018 02:31PM
I agree with Midmo as some pullers and groups didn't like Doug and some of that was because with his leadership Outlaws just took over pulling out here. Old TPM and NTPA plus MSTPA and other groups in other states were the big dogs and no one had heard of Outlaws. They just lost competitors to Outlaws because he knew what he was doing. Better purses, the best events, better rules to keep these vehicles on the track. He started with nothing and made Outlaws into what it is today. I think you already are seeing Outlaws slipping since he left in losing pullers and events. They are now changing rules where pullers are going to have to spend a lot more money and going to have more breakage. It used to be when times got tuff Outlaws really did good but now they are in the money race on rules and are going to lose more pullers than they will ever gain with the changes they are making. I know they were down almost 40 pullers last year and I think that will be even more this year. Just my .02 cents worth and never been a big Doug Roberts fan and will admit some of that was jealousy as our association couldn't keep up with Outlaws. He did raise the bar and one thing for sure the higher Outlaw purses he set and sold to promoters led to everyone get better purses in other associations out here.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS March 09, 2018 08:47AM
No doubt Outlaws has seen there hey days in pulling. They lost one of the best minds in pulling when Doug left and the new guy hasn't got a clue. I think pretty soon it's going to PPL and NTPA. I look for the Western Series to take over the Midwest like Doug did years ago.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 10:53AM
Maybe lower hitches would make it less of a power game. I propose 16 instead of 20. Yeah i know some lss don't run full 20.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 11:02AM
Yes,-- that my friends is a very cheap tuning tool most never use,think about or utilize. Lower hitch will make more (seems like ) hp and costs nothing. We need more drivers classes,not more speed,pressure and torque,how many blocks broke last yr,with "REGULAR FUEL" ????????? Axles and housings are breaking,wheels coming off,too much boost,if we don't regulate ourselves,the insurance sure as he** will.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 10:58AM
There is no doubt cost Is killing pulling. The resistance to slow down, even one gear, is truly insane! Luckily we pull with a local organization that has diversified their rules and has adopted many cost saving option.

President SCWTP
Wade kessenich
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 12:59PM
We are regulated. If everybody quit changing them. It's no different then buying a new car or building new house or better yet your new phone tv and computer. They still do same thing but better and more expensive. I don't like paying more I really don't. But your not going to stop progress. One thing for sure the manufactures will be ready to make better pieces for any rule. The odd brush classes don't see it too bad cause no market. But you change a PS SF or LPS and you'll see the regulated part go up in price
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 01:09PM
With todays sleds a 2500 horse class could drop to 2000 and put on just as good of a show and the fans would never no the difference engines would be saved and the winner would still get the same amount of money on the first place check ,But some people just cant run apples to apples they have got to buy there way in
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 01:50PM
We've all read what you post about the 410 being able to run with them, but the two diesels that you speak of are the only two that can get close enough to get a sniff,it was said in another post " not many really cared at the horse park" but yet you kept bringing it up, YOU need to build a 410.an see if you can make it run with them,you say it can be done , SO DO IT, then sell it .
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 22, 2018 03:38PM
Quote
Dick Morgan

It’s time for the leadership of pulling to stop asking the pullers what they want and write rules that will keep the sport healthy. I have the feeling that in public must pullers will tell you don’t want their class backed down at all, however in private they are just waiting for some common sense rules that help them to be able to afford to compete in the class and sport that they love.

I don’t remember who said it, but there was a quote in Circle Track years ago that the rule makers have to protect the racers from themselves. I realized then that it applies to pullers too and that was probably over 20 years ago.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 03:22AM
Back many years ago at the local circle track they had a claim rule. For a nominal fee you could trade engines with any of the top 3 competitors. Now of course, this may not be practical with tractor pulling, but in circle track, it kept the spending in check. Perhaps a variation of that?
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 03:38AM
Lol that sounds ridiculous
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 03:52AM
There's actually a class I know does this on the turbo chargers
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 23, 2018 01:07PM
Today in the pulling world farm stock is out of control as PF, SF, SS, LL and so on number drop those guys just scale their tractors down make them meet farm stock rules and pull there these days you need to pull road gear with 600-700hp just to compete in farm stock. It does make farm class nice to watch but at same time not what it should be. My fuel guy said to me last time I picked up a pump " ten years ago I was building SS pumps this size " and I was putting I on a farm stock that's not how it should be but us as puller just keep spending to keep up with big spenders. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. In years to come when they have nobody to pull against they will open their eyes and see that that spent their competition right out of pulling. You all ready see this in local bush pulls.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 24, 2018 12:20AM
Someone said it best on here rules in other types of motorsports are to keep competitors from out spending. There will always be endless checkbooks but rules should be made with class longevity in mind not more hp numbers.
Reply Quote

Re: The overriding topic at the NFMS February 24, 2018 12:12PM
Amen 7810 short and simple
Reply Quote

Newer Topic Older Topic

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,576, Posts: 229,605, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,058, Posts: 225,857.

Our newest member BadHabit2