02:56:43am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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thoughts for louisville future
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LP540
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I've been around and participated in pulling all my life and been going to Louisville for 15 or so plus years and when I think of pulling as far as tractor's go I think pro stock and super stock diesel where it all began probably my two favorite classes. There is no shortage of pro stock tractors around the country but unfortunately diesel super stocks are disappearing fast year by year, you have your 10 or so grand national tractors and couple handfuls or so of state tractors around that the horse power on is significantly different which is perfectly fine but my opinion or point is take a show like Louisville they should run a one and done heat with no finals like the limited pro's and light pro's do and let the light super stock tractors have a couple heats of tractors with a Saturday night final. I realize in doing that you would have to do a little manipulating around with the rest of the sessions or schedule but there are many more good running light weight supers across the country than heavy diesel supers and they put a on a great show so it only seems right and that hurts for me to say because diesel supers are my favorite class but it is what it is. This is just my opinion again I guess maybe more people can add their thoughts on this subject too |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Same here
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Thought the same thing here. Add the Open Super Stock class to it. Down too you can barely get enough for one class, half break and you end up with 6 going to finals. Just hook them one time and put in two classes of LSS and bring them to finals. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I think two sessions of LSS at Louisville are long overdue. Pullers in the class need to apply in record numbers and show them that guys would support the class under the right conditions. Infact, if I were in the class I'd probably state on my application that I'd be interested in coming if there were two classes and a finals, otherwise I wouldn't be interested until they made those changes. Take the top three (not four) from both sessions and it would be a great show.
As for the Diesel Supers and Open Supers... maybe they could just invite the top six of each and run them back to back in the same session. (My preference would be to combine the classes into one Heavy Super class but that's my perfect world scenario.) Again, take the top three from each (shrunken) class to the finals. As a side note... all the multi-session classes should only have the top three to the finals. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Here's the problem with LSS, THERE IS NO WAY THEY WOULD FILL TWO CLASSES! There would only be around 12 quality tractors and another 6-8 poor running tractors. there prelim nights would not be a good show. The finals would be fantastic (as it currently is on sat. afternoon for them).
LSS are my favorite class at the farm show and I really hope proposed plan of 2 prelim. and a finals is a reality someday. But they definitely should not move to that until they would get enough applicants to fill both prelims and have at least 18 of those being quality tractors. You must remember it has only been the recent couple years that we have had a mostly really good class of tractors. I can come up with a good list of 2 classes of LSS that would be awesome at the farmshow right now, but you must remember 1/3 of them choose not to apply. So we must wait for more quality tractors to apply or be built. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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plum krazy
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Dmax47- why do you think you have the mighty pen,mind or plan----everyone has an answer,but no solution.Take a heavy unit in the winter,travel,pay - pay -- PAY to attend and pay some more to play and enertain you??????????? |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Chip42
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Think you misunderstood what he was saying...Doesn't sound like he is blaming people for not applying. Just stating that some tractors choose not to apply... |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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I disagree with that Jake. Why should these guys have to beg the committee to let them pull more? Why would they all apply knowing that only 12 get in to begin with? Maybe Louisville should pay a little more since they advertise 75,000 fans paying around $35 a ticket. That's $2,600,000 and the payout is only $200,000? It doesn't cost 2 million dollars to put on a tractor pull. Louisville is everything that is wrong with the sport. Big money pulls where the actual entertainment gets pennies on the dollar and the promoters fill their pockets. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
They do not "have to beg the committee to let them pull more". They should ALL apply to let the committee know that they will support the event IF the event supports them. A part of that is the event paying them like a premier class (as I've already mentioned multiple times). The committee also needs some sort of assurance that the pullers in the class will support the event IF the event makes the changes. Otherwise there's no incentive for the event to change everything. The last thing the committee wants is to offer two sessions of LSS and then have trouble filling both sessions with tractors. They aren't going to make that change and then make themselves look like fools until they have some basic assurances (like enough applications).
"Why would they all apply knowing that only 12 get in to begin with". Well, if only 16 guys apply then they'll never get another session or a finals. If 40 guys apply things are much, much, much more likely to change. If they let the committee know what's actually keeping them from applying then they are more likely to get things changed. As for the promoter of the Farm Show pull... that's the state of Kentucky. The state is not committed to truck and tractor pulling like many other promoters. The state is only committed to making a profit. Specifically the biggest profit they can with whatever show can make the most profit. That's the cornerstone of capitalism. They have a product and people buy it. When the profit starts to dip then they will just change the product and have a Country act come in a put on a concert. Once the pull disappears it will NEVER return. Should they pay competitors more? In my opinion... Sure. Sure they should. From a promoters standpoint... nah. As fans we're lucky to even have this event to go to. As a sport, this event gives us a tremendous amount of exposure in a major market and it makes it seem like a legitimate motorsport for a week every Winter. It's the largest and most prestigious indoor event for a reason. You say "Louisville is everything that is wrong with the sport. Big money pulls where the actual entertainment gets pennies on the dollar and the promoters fill their pockets". I'd say that there are only one or two events where the "promotors fill their pockets". That's an anomaly. Louisville makes money, I don't fault them for that and as a fan I hope it continues to make money for quite a few more years, or else it will be gone. What I think is wrong with the sport is Big money pullers spending millions of dollars to win hundreds. Some competitor have sent a clear message to promoters that they'll spend and spend and spend to win peanuts. Where's the incentive to pay the pullers more money? It's not the promoters fault... it's the fault of the "spend at all costs" pullers. They're the ones ruining it for the little guys. Right now there is absolutely zero incentive for organizations or promoters to do an overall purse increase. Pullers keep showing up year after year. It truly stinks for the smaller teams. It's hurting the sport on all levels. Its their right, and their money to spend as they wish, but it does hurt smaller teams that can't spend at that level. If the LSS guys speak up and communicate to the committee then things are much more likely to change. If neither the committee or the competitors offer an olive branch then the number of applications will continue to decrease and the show will suffer. It's up to the competitors to give the committee an easy decision, and it's up to the committee to make the changes to improve the show, but they need to work together. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
They had 12 excellent tractors this year. Any one of them could have won. If they had two session and a finals you can guarantee that more guys would apply. I've talked with a number of guys in the class and they have said exactly that. I've had tons of different conversations with LSS pullers and the guys that don't apply anymore are tired of getting treated like a second tier class (especially since they carried the show the past few years (although not as much this year). Missing this year were (in no specific order):
Karlens Bohaboj Filiatreau Hootman Wettleson Chizek Chizek Lynn Pichler Nelson Whitworth Whitworth Hoffman Weins Storjohann Wipf Guza Hull Witt Clark Haug Haug Esteb Maedge Northcutt Essary Haney Haney Weaver Weaver Most of these tractor would put on a great show and a vast majority of them are capable of winning the whole thing. There are also a handful on new LSS coming out this year. Some of which will probably be top runners with guys like Spiegelberg having a second and Kavan is rumors to be jumping into the class with Josh and Terry building him one. I'm sure there are more, this is just my top of the head list. Yes, they don't all apply... but how many more would if they had two session? I agree though, they NEED to apply. They need to make it an easy decision for the committee. If they don't apply then they need to let the committee know why. They also deserve to make the same money as the other top classes. The LSS class is a premier class and it's about time they got treated like one. However, if guys don't apply then nothing will change. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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LP540
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Ya I disagree with dmax47 I can think of a ton of good running light super stocks as Jake pointed out too, granted they do have to apply but they may do that if they had more sessions to pull in and on like a Thursday or Friday night not a Saturday noon run one and done deal, my point is make a list of good running diesel supers then make a list of good running light supers and compare them, the list would be much much longer for light supers hence my feel for another session with a Saturday night finals at Louisville and a run one and done for diesel supers like Friday night no need for a finals class on Saturday night, I guess we will see what shakes out in coming years |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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LP540, im not sure what you disagree with me about? I Did not say there weren't enough LSS out there, i could have came up with a big list the same as jake as well. I simply meant I would absolutey love to see two sessions and a finals, but i don't think it would produce a quality show because I believe they would struggle to fill the final few spots and of those that applied there would be a few less than deserving that would make it in because of the lack of applicants.
If you believe at least 24 would apply and that would include mostly top quality tractors would apply, I really hope your right!! Im just not that optimistic, basing my thoughts on history of LSS at the farm show. last 2-3 years is the first time they haven't had to accept a horrible tractor or 2 because of lack of applicants. my fear is if they expand right now yes they probably will pick up a couple more good tractors and also have to accept back a couple of less than desirable tractors and then likely still have a couple spots to fill. If LSS continues to grow. I do believe the move to two sessions and a finals would be a success in about 2-3 years. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
It wasn't because of lack of applicants... it was simply because they choose those tractors. There were good (top tier or near top tier) tractors turned away and rejected in those years (I asked some teams if they applied and they did and got rejected). I've heard that the applications for the class are decreasing even though the class is growing... the pullers aren't happy with the pay (for some guys it's not about the money, but the fact that the lower purse shows that the Farm Show still thinks of them as a lesser class), and with only getting a single Saturday afternoon session. I think it's especially frustrating for the LSS pullers when the Open Supers and Diesel Supers have struggled to even fill the class and yet they both get weeknight sessions and a bigger purse. That doesn't sit well with many of the LSS guys. I think the right first step would be to give the LSS a weeknight and a spot in the finals. Then reevaluate in a year or two and if the applications are pouring in or if the committee feel like too many top tractors are being left home then add another weeknight session. It's also time to dial the Pro Stock class back to 3 sessions. You can hook once or twice (or never at all) in the summer and still get invited. There are probably more than enough Light Pros to have two sessions in place of one of the Pro Stock sessions. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Key man
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The Diesel SS can't even get 8 that can go past 180 feet. That is a class that needs to move to one hook Sat afternoon. And this year's Alcohol SS was not much better. Either run them together or both on Sat afternoon. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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I would just love to know who actually applies for all the classes! It sure would be interesting, but man would it ever open a can of worms and create so much whining and crying and all kinds of drama on here lol.
I could not agree more with everyone of your points Jake. I have felt just about the same way with everything you just brought up. the only thing is, i believe a "finals" should only take place if you have at least 2 prelim sessions. Take the mods DSS and OSS for example, they already pulled against everyone in their class so why should they have to do it again??? This explains my firm belief against pull offs as well (except for in safety concerns). However i do want to see DSS mods and OSS on Saturday night! so to be clear I do not have the answer. I just wish there were enough great vehicles to allow for 2 sessions of all the classes and they conjoin for a finals Saturday but that isnt the reality unfortunately. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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4321
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For all you people asking and telling and wishing and hoping for what you want,like and figure it should be,put on a pull have sessions,finals,as many as you can muster up applicaints,do it youself,control it arrange it,plan it fund it get the best announcers,pay big money,make everyone happy,do it big mouths. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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4321,
This is a PUBLIC OPINION FORUM where the intent is to discuss pulling related items. Most of us LOVE pulling and enjoy talking about pulling which includes reflections of past pulling, current pulling and discussions of upcoming pulling. I am not sure why you are upset or offended with the content above being discussed. I do believe that everyone that has posted in this conversation and their content fits in the above criteria. (if not I'm sure, Jake, the administrator will happily explain what it is that we should be posting on here) If you believe we are blasting the farm show pull, you need to reread all the comments, everyone is simply stating their opinions on certain farm show pull topics. Now i will say I have read comments for years blasting certain people or organizations and so on that are not appropriate or just. And the farm show has certainly taken some heat over the years for different things (Some deserving and some not). But i have been wanting to for some time now write up a thank you and appreciation letter to the farm show pull committee for all the great and positive changes made to the pull in recent years. I am only stating this now to you 4321 because it seems you think I and we are bashing the pull, but actually have more praise for them then anything. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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4321
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You should reread unbiasly if possible your own posts dmaz47,seems like mostly demands of others you speak of,I see or hear no praise,just what you WANT.Hence my suggestion to put on your own show,have and do as you like and then respond to the flack you get. no one can, will or ever have pleased everyone,can't happen, I am not against any venue,persons organizations,just read words written,and I see others complaining about other complainers,so funny and hipicritacial.Accepting life and most things make them much more,positive energy is what we make it to be,winter is winter not warm spring type temps or conditions,several pulls hace suffered this yr because of rain,cold,snow,ice and this week is no different,A big national type program is great,not all like the arragements,style or whatever,but it is what it is,we can all ask for something different but many times we don't know the politics,(in everything in life,- like it or not),money issues,favors owed called in or dues to be paid type conditions that exist in all aspects of entertanment,sports,shows,travel,friendships and more.Motivation varies from one to another,prioities are the same.I have watched,help put on,promoted,participated in and shared responsiblities at many events,so am a fan,driver,builder and more,passion is not the problem,people are.Only so many classes,units and diversity can be accommodated in any venue. At a big pull in Nov,hooks were being made well after 3am,certainly not ideal,but it was what it was,could changes be made,-- sure,will they be constructive and positive,I hope so.Not many people I know like negative criticism,or bad feedback,just tell a promotor to water the track more,or sled person to change weight or use a block to back up to,or grader operator how to do the job,-- see how the reactions go. Not many like the truth,mostly about themselves.Remember when we point our fingers at someone,something,three pointing back at us. Many more snowy days to come,rain for the mid south,pulling surfaces will be high and dry come June? |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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huh?
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
In My opinion, I agree there are plenty of LSS that run hard to make a couple classes. also there are plenty of quality Limited pros and light pros to make a couple classes out of them to. Give the region and state competitors more spots to get into the farm show. |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Ou812
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I agree in the limited pros. They sure put on an excellent show and enough around to warrant having 2 sessions. Also lt pro fits the bill. Just my 2 cents worth but I’d pay to see them! |
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Re: thoughts for louisville future
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Lt pro puller
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Yes eliminate the light pros because them geniuses down here can't pick the real light pros ! |
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