08:02:25am, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I know that the NTPA has changed leadership [not really, with board members hand picked by Dave] it's time to take a serious look at combining the DSS and the OSS. After talking with several drivers in both classes the feeling was that it would be good for their respective classes and good for the sport. Sure there are a few pullers that are anti change, however there was strong interest in at least trying to run the two fuel types together. And yes I know that the leadership of the NTPA has never like combined classes and taking a risk is not in their vocabulary. However without some changes to their approach the OSS is going to die, 6 hooks and the ban on the Cummins V8, is putting the class is on life support. I really believe that the NTPA is missing a golden opportunity to bring much needed excitement back to the Super Stock class. However I know that it's not going to happen under this leadership, having 6 tractors in a class has never been an issue for them, having 100 feet between first and fifth place has not been an issue.
So having said that I would like the see the NFMS take the lead and next year take 6 of the top OSS and 6 of the top DSS and run them together in one session and then bring back the top four from each fuel type in the Saturday night finals. I believe that the class would have great interest for the fans. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Test case (rinse and repeat)
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
I posted this last year, but Session 2 at BG has both classes scheduled. Run them together on the same track at same time, with one draw order. For purse, points, and placing, they would be treated as separate classes, but ran together with the same sled setting.
That would be a perfect test case scenario. Looking to the future beyond that, I find myself with little patience for those who say "well, you will never get two different fuel types to be equal....." That's where intelligent tweaking comes in. NHRA has several classes with different fuel types that manage to run together with intelligent tweaking. Pro mods have nitrous, turbocharged, and blown cars together. Top alcohol dragster has blown alcohol and injected nitro together. There is a combination of weight, hitch height, (or maybe if Ross and Blagrave can run heads up with GALOT, they can run as is with no tweaking). Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2019 12:43PM by The Original Michael. |
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The real question.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
After reading my original post I need to clarify a couple things, First I do not hate the NTPA, on the contrary I am a fan of them as I am a fan of all of the tractor pulling. However what I see them doing reminds me of one of my places of employment, Kodak. I worked there 30 years and watched the slow demise of a once great company. They went from 61,000 employees in Rochester NY to 1600. They sat and did nothing to stop the bleeding. The NTPA in the last 10 years has lost member state after member state, and they just sit and watch the bleeding, why? Every company, be it a camera company or a tractor pulling company needs to be proactive, needs to keep share holder happy [ pullers, promoters, sponsors and fans ] so the real question is the NTPA working hard enough to do that, or will they be another Kodak? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: The real question.
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Here are the member states that NTPA has lost since January of 1992 from that issue of The Puller. Canada Great Lakes Tractor Pullers Assn. Quebec Tractor Pullers Assn. United States Florida Tractor Pullers Assn. Illinois Tractor Pullers Assn. (I am an active member) Iowa Tractor Pullers Assn. Kansas Tractor Pullers Assn. Kentucky State Tractor Pullers Assn. Heart of Maryland Tractor Pullers Assn. Tractor Pullers of Missouri. Nebraska Tractor Pullers Assn. New Hampshire Tractor Pullers Assn. New York Tractor Pullers Assn. Pennsylvania Tractor Pullers Assn. Tennessee/Alabama Tractor Pullers Assn. Texas tractor Pullers Assn. Vermont Tractor Pullers Assn. Old Dominion Tractor Pullers Assn.(Virginia) if NTPA would have listened to MANY of us state pullers on rules and things getting out of hand, we may never have left. |
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Re: The real question.
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Posts: 1,159 |
They also just lost Mid South Pullers Association Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: The real question.
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Didn't a lot of the defections have to do with the roll cage mandate (which now most every organization requires) ? Basically before my time with NTPA, so I don't know. JW |
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Re: The real question.
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Jim, I believe that's true in part. It really wasn't the cage itself, but the way it was handled. To my knowledge back then, none of the member states or their members had a say in it. In my opinion, it was probably the icing on the cake. Though anyone that put it on that year, really didn't have a problem with it once they got in the seat. The other thing was dues. They kept going up and number of pulls kept going down. There's a lot more to the story both on NTPA's side and the former member states side, but that's what I remember right now. |
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Re: The real question.
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Ohio
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You forgot OSTPA. Which was about a third of the total hooks at that time for NTPA. |
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Re: Test case (rinse and repeat)
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 24 |
All it takes is a DSS puller to jump into the OSS class but nobody has. |
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Re: Test case (rinse and repeat)
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
if oss cant support itself its time has run out,ntpa did it to themselves.ntpa couldn't even hold onto the state it resides in,ohio. |
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Re: Test case (rinse and repeat)
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In the know
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What pullers did you speak to about combining the class Dick? There is only one guy that wanted to combine the classes and that's because he killed his own class. From my understanding all of the diesel guys said no, absolutely not... |
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Re: Test case (rinse and repeat)
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No. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Why not do something to make it affordable to build a dss or oss like only two turbos which trickles down to a less expensive build or are you afraid it won't light and fall on it nose,might not need a 10-15 thousand dollar rearend etc,etc,etc |
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DSS is just as broken as OSS!
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
In my opinion a two turbo limit would just make the classes have very, very, very exotic turbo chargers. A tractor like Triple Bypass would just take off the top two chargers and replace them with one big monster custom Wimer turbocharger that had the same flow characteristics as the top two it replaced. I honestly don't believe HP would change at all, it would probably just drive up the price even more and create a bigger separation between the top tier and the rest of the class.
If the DSS guys think their class is doing well then they are sadly mistaken. The DSS class is hurting just as much as the Alcohol class, and maybe more. The NTPA has a captive audience with the DSS so the numbers on the Grand National Circuit look better on the Diesel side but not much better. The Alcohol guys have two options and the class is split between PPL and NTPA so of course the Alcohol numbers look worse in the NTPA. Aside from just raw number there's the problem of disparity between the top tier, the second tier, and the rest of the DSS class. A guy like Kent Payne has really stepped up his program and made the leap to the top tier, but there aren't may Kent Payne's waiting in the wings. It's a high maintenance class with a heavy schedule and parts are getting more and more exotic every year and the boost levels continue to increase. It's not a game that many have the aptitude or money to play. The tiers are just as prevalent on the Alcohol side of the fence. Guys like Chizek and Well's are playing at a different level. They can afford to have GMS and Blackbourn Racing doing vast amount of R&D and the budget for those two teams alone probably exceeds the rest of the class combined. I'm not blaming them, it's great that they have invested so much time and money, and it's their right to do it, but it just a fact of the class. Guys like Lustik and Hirt are pushing the class as well but I'd guess there not willing to win at all costs. Will the PPL Alcohol guys enjoy hooking against Terry and Josh all summer for the next few years? The truth is there are probably more Alcohol tractors playing at the top tier than DSS tractors at the top tier (which shows how much the DSS class is really hurting). The truth is both classes are essentially on life support, and they've been sick for a very, very long time. They can choose to watch each other die separately or they can find a solution that can save them both. Some Alcohol guys are willing to try to find a solution and I did talk with some DSS guys in Louisville who are opposed to the idea (no, I won't divulge their names because I spoke in confidence with some of them and I won't violate that trust) I'd love to see a place like Louisville combine the classes next Winter. Take the top six (seven... or eight at most) from each fuel type and run them together in one session (intermingled... not all one fuel then all of the other). It's no secret that they've had trouble filling either class the past few years and it would be a solution that works for everyone. Take the top three from each fuel and send them to the finals. Nobody can sandbag because it's two separate classes within a class and you still have to have be the top dog for your fuel to make the Saturday night show. Talk with Vaughn Bauer and see what he thinks and give a slight weight break if it will even out the show... if Vaughn thinks it's OK then run them heads up. An added benefit of a combo class at Louisville would be that it would also free up a session so the Light Super, Light Pro, or Limited Pros could have another session. Maybe they could even add a new class like the Light Limited Supers! (I'm always a fan of more variety) Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: DSS is just as broken as OSS!
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just another fan
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The diesel class is a little shaky, but is a lot better than the alcohol class....17 GN hooks with 11 pre-committed tractors (which will actually be 12 tractors, Blagraves don't pre-commit)…..and don't forget the Shramek family, they hit a few pulls throughout the year and from my understanding they will be back full time in a year or so....that's at least 1 or 2 more tractors....and don't forget last year Esdon wasn't there after the first 3 pulls and John Raymond had his fair share of problems. If those 3 tractors would have been there the class would have maintained 12 to 13 tractors per hook....and remember the class pays down 10 spots, whether the class is neck to neck or in "tiers" and there are 13 tractors 3 guys are going home empty handed, meaning why take the chance if I don't have the edge. Plus don't forget Mike Beck, he runs well as seen in Louisville and the John Deeres from Maryland are supposedly making upgrades so I wouldn't go as far as saying "there aren't many Kent Paynes waiting in the wings" I love the diesel class and i'm biased to them, lets see how the class does this year and go from there. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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You guys talk like Blackbourns are untouchable. Galot won 2 out of the last 3 titles. And Blackbourns have shown that a 6 cylinder can win and be competitive. Didn't they run the classes back to back at BG two years ago? Distances we're close, but the sled was set different between classes. The restrictions you would need to keep the classes "even" can't keep up with the advances in power. You'd always be chasing and one side would always be disgruntled. It may work on the lower levels where guys are just happy to pull, but does a guy with a quarter million invested want to hook to a sled knowing he's already at a disadvantage because of his fuel? |
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Re: Example of bad leadership
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
While as a fan I admit to "wearing NTPA underwear," the organization's lack of leadership in several areas is frustrating. For example, I live in Indiana. There are exactly 2 HSS hooks for HSTPA, both at Connersville where C. Gettinger and Peiffers live. Expanding out, in R2 this year, there are only 2 hooks, both at the pull in Charlotte, MI. That's it.
Why would someone pay to join an organization that as of late March with the schedule 99% set for only 4 hooks (assuming a HSS guy makes both trips to Connersville and runs at Charlotte)? Meanwhile, there are Light Pro hooks galore. I like Light Pros, and think they should be a GN class. I wish NTPA (and member states) would exert a little organizational leadership with scheduling. I have an idea to help with that, but don't feel like typing it all out here. Looking at the big picture- how is the future of the SS class going to develop if there are no hooks at the state/regional level? The promoters can ask for any class the want, but NTPA doesn't have to agree with it after a class has X number of hooks. There are things NTPA leadership could do with scheduling to balance things out. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2019 03:13PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Example of bad leadership
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This is just you boys pushing your own agenda. If so many pullers want the classes combined, then why aren't they speaking up? |
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Re: agenda???
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
If by "agenda" you mean saving the SS class from itself, then I plead guilty. I don't presume to speak for Jake or Richard but they would likely have similar reasons. Otherwise, what agenda are you referring to? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2019 03:20AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Example of bad leadership
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do it
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First, it seems like I am always the only one that ever gives credit to Rick Feicht for making a combo class work, for everyone - both tractors and trucks. He sure puts lots of different types of vehicles into either a tractor or truck combined class sucessfully. Yet hardly anybody else takes that over quarter of a century proven "agenda" to heart and trys to duplicate it.
Personally, I think it is time to put Grand National SS Diesel and SS Open back together. Give a whole lot more promoter and spectator appeal, once again. Take and combine the 2 class purses into 1 big class purse to entice getting both type of fuel tractors there to compete. And pay it back far enough that hopefully everyone goes home with a check along with the winner getting a really big check (perhpas 150% more than use to in their 'single' fuel class). If I remember correctly, it was not very many years ago when Lock N Load was plaqued with numerous (major) engine issues. At BG, another new engine was debutted by trying it out first in the SSO class. It placed very well. That sure lit up this board. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
The NHRA Pro Mods and Top Alcohol dragsters would disagree. My post earlier about intelligent tweaking addresses this. There is a combination that would get things relatively even, and I'm not convinced we're not already close based on a few anecdotal runs in recent years, like Burge @ BG 2016. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2019 03:33PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
First, nobody said Blackbourn's were untouchable. Infact I mentioned GMS and Earl Well's in my other post (The Galot tractor builder and owner respectively). Brent does an awesome job with those tractors. As I said in my previous post they can compete on another level financially and they can afford to push the technology more than most of the guys in the class. They are in the top tier I wrote about. They are NTPA tractors and I'm sure the PPL guys wouldn't be too happy if they jumped over to run that circuit full time in the summer either. There's no way to know that until they hook together. Some of the dyno numbers I'm hearing sure seem like they are pretty close in power now and the diesels make way more torque. you can insert tons of other things in here... engine block choice, engine builder, driving style, ect... the list goes on and on. Somebody always has an advantage of some sort, fuel is just one more variable in a long list of variables. Sure, combo classes are more work for the organization to maintain a fair and level playing field but more work doesn't mean it's wrong, or a bad idea. Infact most of the best things in life take more work... marriage, kids, morals, etc... all take more work but are much more rewarding. The harder choice is usually the right choice. Would adjustments be needed year after year? Sure. Take the feeling and emotion out of the discussion at the end of every season and simply look at the data. massage the weight, hitch, etc... and make the data as close as can be year after year. The NTPA has a math genius on their payroll so I think he could run the numbers and figure out who has an advantage and by what margin. As The Original Michael stated a few times; NHRA makes combo classes work, pulling can too. Again, Vaughn Bauer is the guy to talk to and he'll tell you how close (or far apart) the classes are right now. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
don't the pullers speak a very loud message now ??..the diesels are more than welcome to hook in uss,diesels can also use e.f.i.only one I remember was john raimond and boxler trying to,but they used the mech injection.at bg and tomah the dss can get 4 hooks on the weekend but only choose to make 2,in the dss class.id surely think if 1 of the dss thought they had a prayer to make a winning hook in uss they would jump on the idea,but no one does.l&l at bg was a exhibition hook at the class end at not during the competition,so that hook is all speculative in the discussion..due to the different crank degrees of rotation that is needed to ignite the different fuels they will never ever be on a level playing field in the same class,ie,hitch and weight..fpp success at the combo classes is simply that theres not enough of each kind of vehicle to make a separate class,so if the pullers want to hook weekly there it is,take it or leave it |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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no
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neither john raymond or hans boxler ever used efi. and why can the diesel hook in the open class but the alcohol cant hook in the diesel class? and if there was any one in ntpa with a set would just tell the diesel pullers we are going to let in the alcohol tractors. what are the diesel guys gonna do, stay home, they got no other place to go |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
I meant to say that the only trs to hook in uss were boxler and Raymond which both used mech inj,should have been a comma in there...and diesels are allowed in uss any time they wish to try |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Isn't it what got the class split in the first place, the diesel guys started staying home.
S'no Farmer |
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i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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R2Puller
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The SS class is dying at all levels. Ntpa prides itself on letting any puller pull anywhere. That has killed SS pulling at the RN level. Guys at that level in most cases have just as much invested in their vehicle as a GN tractor. You have to change the class so that in time if guys want to build up to the GN level they can, but have a place to get their foot in the door. I would propose a 2021 build to date and this would effect all RN SS.
1. Heads to be OEM only also including 24 valve OEM heads. (No after market re-cast heads or Hypermax heads allowed, no billet heads allowed. The part number on the head must be visible and not ground off. 2. Alcohol tractors limited to 505 CID +/- 1% 3. Diesel tractors limited to 540 CID +/- 1% 4. Diesel tractors limited to a cast P-pump (no billet p-pumps or cast sigmas allowed) 5. No aftermarket or re-cast blocks allowed, including but not limited to billet blocks or hypermax aftermarket blocks 6. 4 turbochargers with 3 pressure stages maximum allowed Light Supers 1. 6200 lbs component cast rear end tractors 6500 2. No puller 2000’s, only Firestone 151’s, 23 degree 8 ply or 10 ply, or the agriculture 23 degree 10 ply or 12 ply will be allowed. (30.5x32 tire size) 3. Alcohol tractors limited to 2 nozzles per cylinder. 4. No deck plates allowed. Heavy Super 1. 8300 lbs Component 8500 cast rear end tractors. 2. Puller 2000 or any other tire allowed (30.5x32 max) 3. Alcohol tractors allowed 3 nozzles per cylinder 4. No deck plates allowed I believe these are common sense rules that will keep breakage minimal (for tractor pulling) and allow guys to get a foot in the door and be competitive. |
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Re: i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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SSpulllee
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Seems reasonable and cost effective. Would like to hear some other thoughts. |
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Re: i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 243 |
Me, a garden tractor puller, may need to jump in this cost effective class |
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Re: i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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Deck plate
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Looking at your rules. Why no Deck plate. That’s taking a lot of colors out. For same reason only green and red in Pro Stock. Think either lower cubes or set cylinder bore center line limits for deck plate. |
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Re: i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I'm afraid the DSS classes glory days are over, yes it is/was one of my favorite classes. However there are several factors that make the growth of the class very unlikely. It's way to late in the game to start writing new rules. All the growth in the diesel classes is in the Lt PS, 4.1 and the many versions of Hot Farm. There is no farm system for DSS class.There is no new young guys jumping into the class. And once the DSS passed the 3000 HP range the local pullers could not would not hook with them and look respectable. Once the class passed 3000 HP the cost and maintenance of owning a DSS was prohibitive to the vast majority of pullers. The same can be said of the OSS also, the big cubic inch, high HP rules limited the number of people that could campaign them. It least with the DSS most could still hook at the regional/club level unlike the OSS that is limited to the national circuits.
There are just to many negative forces that are working against the OSS and DSS, the farm economy, the excessive miles to compete, the breakage and maintenance, the low payback in prize money, the lack of young pullers building for these classes, on and on. So what are the answers, in the DSS the proposal to run a restrictor plate was at least an attempt to keep cost down and level the playing field. However with the OSS I'm not sure if there is any way keep the class healthy. I think that with only 6 NTPA hooks the pullers will all gravitate to PPL, or maybe once the NTPA banned the Cummins V8 the PPL 6 cylinders will all go to the 6 NTPA events. And for these reasons I would love to see a combined DSS 650 Alcohol class. I guess when you stop and think about it, once any class starts crossing the 3000 HP line the numbers go down and the cost goes up, and the show quality suffers. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2019 07:14AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: i would like to propose some superstock rules.....thoughts
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Registered: 10/16/2017 Posts: 5 |
R2puller
While I agree with the fact that heavy super stock does need help at the regional level. I have some questions. 1. When did super stock become entry level? Unfortunately the economy affects tractor pulling immensely. Until commodity prices come back up I think we will continue to see declining numbers across the board super stock gets hit the hardest because of the high cost of ownership and maintenance. The smaller classes are also affected, however the market for buying in the cheaper price ranges of pulling vehicles is much larger. 2. If you limit a diesel super stock to these rules at a regional level what do you do when a GN competitor stays home and pulls locally. IE illness or breakage is that fair then for them to make an exhibition pass and not fully know if they have all the bugs out? 3. If you limit diesel SS to a cast p pump wouldn't you kill this class as a light pro has a single turbo but would be in the same power range and not have near the moving parts which should equate to less breakage. Just my .02 Hopefully leadership among NTPA/PPLOUTLAWS can work with the pullers to make these classes great again! |
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To answer some of your questions?
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R2 Puller
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Question 1: this is not any entry level class. To build one fresh you are still going to approach 125,000.00. Let me answer your question with a question. What is the cost of doing nothing? Most RN guys work and that is why they pull RN. R2 only has 4 hooks for heavy supers and only 2 for light supers and the second one at Lynn Indiana is being paid for by a sponsor. The numbers are terrible participation wise. You need rules that some guys will pull theirs out again and come compete more often. Guys like Larry Getz, Jamie Lindell, Scott Diuble, Steve Feldkamp all come to mind. The class needs numbers or die.
Question 2: Grand National guys staying home or not making passes locally. Most if not all GN guys are going to the synonym now to dial them in. GN guys competing at the local level is what has killed the class. I will use Kent Payne as a prime example. Kent and Sandy are some of the greatest, kindest people in all of pulling. True class acts. At Wauseon last summer Kent put almost 100’ on the next diesel and 50’ on a damn good alcohol. Kent would either have to compete under RN limits or stay at home. The whole point is increasing numbers and participation and if excluding GN pullers from the RN level does that, that is the price we pay. Question 3: The cast p-pump. They are running 16mm plungers now runnning approximately 1500-1600 cc of fuel. In Europe they are running 17-18mm plungers in a p-pump. Granted it’s in a 3200 rpm class and probably running at half the pump speed, but it’s a matter of time before someone state side figures out durability for those. A p-pump will run you 10k, far from entry level but still a lot cheaper than 22k for a billet pump. Again I ask, what is the cost of doing nothing? We let the class die and continue to talk about how great this class used to be? Or we propose and enforce limits that allow a guy to come play, have fun, increase numbers and provide rules for the long term viability of the class? The conversation MUST be had or we bury our head in the sand, act like nothing is wrong and say that the way it’s always been. The way it’s always been mentality is what has killed the class. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
Id rather start by trying to combine lss and sso as they have fewer hooks combined than ssd does by itself. Have them both at 7k. Lss 20 hitch and sso@18 |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Been there and seen that !!! The LSS @ 20" hitch & 7700# and OSS @ 18" hitch & 8000#. The LSS won by 30 ft. !!!!! |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
Try 19" then. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Tape measure
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Dont most light supers ran less than 20 anyway, closer to 17? Putting lss in this thread is the wrong thing to do, theres like 30 or more good ones out there from the list one of the morgans put on here a while back. Lets keep that class healthy, and anything you do to dss or oss is a bandaid anuway |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
They wouldn't need to lower their at 7700 lbs.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
I would agree with "Tape measure" , leave the LSS alone. Actually there has been 3 or 4 new tractors built over the last few years ! Why mess up something that is showing some growth ? |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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no
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agreed the lss is going to get 4 more being almost finished now, and the diesel supers made this mess themselves so they need to fix it or get out. 1 class number keep growing andf the other keeps dieing |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 08/07/2013 Posts: 12 |
First of all I'm a big block deere guy brand loyalty is a great thing. The fact that their are practically no stock parts in any competitive prostock or ssd. I think its time to allow newer and more modern engines and set a bore spacing limit. A small block deere and a IH block are both at a big disadvantage with a smaller bore. If turbos and injection systems are equal the biggest bore will have biggest valves hence the most air flow. I don't think it should make any difference what block you run if it meets the cubic in limit. Their are a lot of newer engines, CAT Cummins and others with OHC to try and make work instead of something that's 40 or 50 years old. We have been beat up by the rule changes more than most. When our tractors were originally built they were legal everywhere now NTPA outlawed our block. New prostock rules came out of nowhere a couple years ago to outlaw OHC. It makes no sense to me that you can run a recast billet or alum block and I cant run a block that will bolt into a 1960 5010. If you want to put limits on things try Shrameks idea of putting restrictor plates on that might limit the playing field. it should make sense to let somebody who thinks for themselves to try and compete with out going broke or get thrown out if something works. CNC machines and dynos are the opioid of todays pulling, its here so we have to deal with it
Fred Hildenbrand |
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Been broken for 30 years
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Sure looks like the future is already here,light pro,lim pro ,and llss.thier growing the rest is shrinking for a few reasons..the pullers that can spend 100k plus have spoken |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Looks like LSS needs added to your list of growing classes. |
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Where are all these new Lt SS at?
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LtSSPuller
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Where are all these new Lt Supers at. Outside of Bowles and the new JD of Linville? I like the rules R2 puller proposed. The SS class is dying at all levels. Tractors trade hands now and then but very little new being built. |
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Re: Where are all these new Lt SS at?
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Looks like
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It appears their are plenty signed up to run ppl this year. |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
This problem has been going on for 30years. In the 90s here In Michigan we campaigned for a difference between grand national and st reginal super stock.the powers to be at the time said no absolutely not. A couple of forward thinking gentlemen (max Simpson and ron boldimeyer )said if you do nothing to fix this you'll be pulling bye yourselves well its here I hope everyone is happy |
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it, Well it's broke!
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
The numbers every one speeks of in these classes are pitiful considering these numbers are for the whole US |
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