Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 04:54AM
Setting up a Fair valley sled box for a 3000 RPM class. What is the tolerance of over run that is allowed?
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 07:27AM
If your running 3000 rpm why do you want to run over . Isnt 3000 the max?
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 07:57AM
We compared photo-tach readings to the box. Photo was 2999 on mine, and box no load was 3055 or so. I think the box picks up the surging spikes better than the photo. Now, when hooked to the sled, and going down the track, my peak reading was only about 2900. Over is over. What happens if you just touch the chalk?? Rules are rules.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 10:37AM
It really doesn't matter what you set the allowance at just as long as you stick to it and everyone knows the parameters. If you set it at 3050 people will set their rpms to 3045 and complain because a spike got them dq'd. In the end if you set a limit and enforce it you will seldom have a complaint one about having the box. Well as referenced above you still will have a complainer but for the most part it'll clear it up Winking
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 10:38AM
my above response was in reply to "boxes suck"
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 12:37AM
You gotta download the run from the box, you can see off the graph if it was malicious. Spikes usually take place in two spots, starting line WOT pre clutch release, or at the end of the pull when the clutch is pushed in wide open throttle. People are lazy and don’t think it’s needed and just ignorantly believe the1985 LCD screen doesn’t lie, so to fix this someone needs to develop a tablet app that graphs real time and can be viewed directly from the data collector immediately post run.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 08:27AM
agree unless spikes for millli second a few seconds is to long
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 09:11AM
We run 3000 in our group. 3001 the light goes on and your pull is a dq. Works for us. Everyone is hooking to the same Fair Valley Box so it's fair for all. Spikes sometimes happen. We've been hammered by it just like most of the guys in the class as well. Best wishes and good luck and have fun this season. Even more important be safe!
rw
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 01:33PM
Gonh, Btdt, here's your thumbs up too.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 01:51AM
goes back to trick goveners and hidden stops oh the throttle. just check the chart after if there is a spike so be it ifthere is a lot of spikes in a run or seconds over at a time there is a problem. some sleds cause spikes
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 10:17AM
Spikes happen... Its a 3000rpm class your gonna dq someone for a 3005 coming off the line or spinning in? STUPID! If your worried about cheaters use a hand held at the end of every run. If that doesn't satisfy your bs then put up protest money... BTDT nit picky is not the way to make a happy class.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 12:45PM
There are such things as trick governors that when dead revved no load will be 3000 rpm, and when under load be upwards of 3500 rpm.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 01:05PM
exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!! rules are meant to be challenged and are.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 01:28PM
Trick and Plumb are exactly right. They always told me "If you throw a rock in a pen full of pigs, the one that gets hit the hardest squeals the loudest." If everyone knows the rules up front then there should be no issue regardless if its 2500 or 3000 or 5000 rpms. You guys are right on. You guys must have dealt with people like this before. Here's your thumbs up.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 01:53PM
Is there a way to trick rpm pickup to show less than what it actually is always thought some sound like more rpm than others
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 02:57PM
You can put a resistor inline between the sensor and the plug in, which will make it read less than what it actually is, which is why many groups dictate that the sensor wire must be exposed, for easy viewing, from the crankshaft sensor all the way to the plug in at the rear of the tractor.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 03:18PM
I've heard for years about this "resistor" and have called lots of shops and they all laugh and say it's a myth. So where do they come from?
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 10:08PM
The resistor is a myth and if they are running an illegal gov then protest them. Have ran in two different groups both ran boxes. Both had issues with the boxes... Common denominator? Since I was never over but had to run 150-200 rpm under because the box was so sensitive. Trust me forget the box... Got tired of the whole thing.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 01, 2019 11:44PM
So, you've never been over rpm, but you don't like the box? Too bad. Clearly it's doing the job properly then. The intent is to ensure nobody breaks the rule, and so therefore it works. As for people with the "spiking" issue, it is what it is. Most often I would say this is from launching too aggressively, and so learn to drive your tractor accordingly and this won't happen.

Our group had the same discussion concerning what is the "allowance".......the members of the class nearly unanimously said "zero". The limit is the limit. Yes, we most certainly have had over rpm competitors. In fact I think pretty much every one has done it (some multiple times), but this usually serves as warning that you are set too close, or you need to adjust your driving style. I think it is a great tool for keeping the class super competitive.

If you want no hard cap limit....run an open rpm class. That's what they are there for!
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 12:16AM
.. we check the graph of the run to see whether it was a spike or "intentional"...
Actually, our tech guy is sitting next to the starting line with the live signal from the box on his tablet, drawing a line.

The trouble with the boxes only showing "peak":
When you measure with only 1 signal per rev, these spikes are often - let's say "anticipation".
We had guys with like 5 signals per rev on their data logger and they could prove our old measuring equipment measured wrong. Then got the data logging guys to build a us a better system.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 02:11AM
What you are saying in regards to signal(s) per rev makes perfect sense Sascha!

So if that's the case, it makes me wonder why we don't have the availability for a "good" system here. Does anyone know who makes (or will make) a system that logs more signals per rev? Graphing this type of system (in real time) would certainly tell the complete story, and would also create total transparency in regards to results and disputes.

I would openly welcome such a system. In fact I might even be interested in buying such a system for myself and allow our club to use it so we could put everyone's mind at ease.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 03, 2019 06:51AM
you cant control asoft spot or the hitch unloading say whenthe front end comes up
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 01:27AM
I agree that over the limit is over the limit but to many variables with a sensitive box that would show a different rpm on the same untouched tractor one run from another. They are not accurate or reliable. First organization did what sascha stated only after the class was over. That worked but takes a big commitment by a tech guy.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 02, 2019 08:02AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Fair Valley box can recall and or replay each run in the class. Ask Dennis to be sure.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 03, 2019 05:32AM
3000 is 3000, 3001 is over otherwise why have a rule
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 03, 2019 09:09AM
we would all be pretty mad if the cpos did't give five - seven over mph before a ticket,rule is for longer than a spike for fairness,not three to four seconds 500 over is too long,but give em a break,intention of rule is to keep fair,not DQ everyone for a few rpms.However the box doesn't know ,I hooked and unhooked at a National event,no one knew,looked or seemed to care about the box and it's readings after each pull.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 03, 2019 02:54PM
You are exactly right. The only thing the box does is help enforce a rule. If you allow a cushion on one rule why not a cushion on all the rules? Let just say if you are running an 6500 lb class it's ok if you weight 6900? Rules are rules.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 04, 2019 01:29AM
It's simple really, apply some common sense to it, and look at the graph as to where the "spike" happened. Keeps happening, competitor simply needs to lower his hi idle rpm setting.
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 04, 2019 01:34AM
Choose 1 tractor randomly every week check rpm with photo tach (use the same one every time) and the box. If photo says 3000 and box reads 3200 then 3200 is your limit on the box. If you go over 3200 on the box DQ
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 04, 2019 02:45AM
I pull a lot,only one out of twenty or so places have no allowance on weight,some one%,many 100# to 200 over,makes no differance,-- just enforce rules same for eveytone
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Re: Class rule 3000 RPM Class sled box tolerance over? May 05, 2019 08:41AM
We run a 3000rpm limit class and its simple, over is over and a DQ.

The tractor is plugged into the sled and each run is recorded in the box and downloaded and checked after each class run if complete. If your found over, even a "spike" your Dq'd.. If the officials are feeling generous or its early season the class might get a "Warning" telling all that tractors are being found spiking over. After the warning you can plan if there's a spike over you get DQd. And yes anyone in class can protest at anytime to see the readings as they are also loaded on laptop and kept.

So its simple, make sure your set up keeps you under or your throttle hand is such you don't inadvertently spike yourself up against the governor and cause an OVER.

Red712
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