Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 02:43AM
My 10 yr old and I we were watching a bit of the Brainerd replay. He posed a question that I didn't know the definite answer to as I am just a fan and not close enough to know the inner workings of the machines enough to provide an educated answer. He doesn't take BS answers as he wants to know facts. His question is what is/are the differences between the engines used on the top fuel & funny cars compared to that of the mods ~ TWD ~ minis of pulling? My lack of specific knowledge is why I came here to ask those who do know.

He completely understands different gearing and transmissions, tire size and application, and the purpose of going fast versus pulling a weight far. However, when it comes to the engines themselves, the only thing I could immediately think of might be the blowers.

He will be reading these responses, as this is his question although I (dad) am writing, so I do ask you keep them kid friendly. Thank you everyone for your time, consideration, and feedback.

Bryce...and dad too.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 03:01AM
Nitromethane. Fuel is probably the biggest difference.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 03:15AM
Pretty much the use of nitromethane and two spark plugs per cylinder instead of one are the only big differences.


Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 03:31AM
500ci, 14-71 charger, 90/10 nitro/alcohol mix through a bunch of injectors. Clutch package is a timed assembly, locking up at different intervals based on track conditions.


Bryan Lively -

Photos
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 04:27AM
Plain and simple, The fuel. Why do I say the fuel, a single top fuel engine makes more horsepower than a 5 engine unlimited mod. Yes, approximately 14,000 hp to be exact. How do I know this, a friend of mine used to work for John Force racing.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 06:28AM
On the tv broadcasts Ihave been hearing that Top Fuel are about 11,000 hp and I believe the Boyds are over 15,000 on their mods. I'm sure that there are other 4/5 engine mods also in that neighborhood. I think I remember that on Archers hauled it said 17,000 hp.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 04:43AM
You may also want to point your son to the Top Alcohol classes. Those classes have ran screw blowers for years ( TF/FC must use roots-type. It would be scary to see a nitro car with 18-71 or screw blower). The one exception to the above is in Top Alcohol dragster, injected nitro ( w/o blower) is allowed in addition to blown alcohol. That is not a legal option in Top Alcohol Funny Car.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 22, 2019 08:18AM
I am fairly sure I’ve watched a mod in Tomah that was using nitro, made my nostrils burn and my eyes water, I’ve never had that at a pull before.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 07:06AM
Noonan and Allen Johnson have both changed the output of blown alcohol motors..also there was an early 3 charger alcohol SS that ran a 5 disc 12" crower that was manual / timer controlled to lock up at 75 feet
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 21, 2019 08:15AM
Thank you everyone for your educational and age appropriate responses, my son loved reading them. It led to another great discussion between he and I. His "best" comment was similar to that of Jake and ProStockPuller..."...so if an unlimited mod with 4 or 5 engines ran nitro-methane, would the driver still be alive when he gets to the end of the pull and spins out? Grinning

He then found a YouTube video early this morning of a top fuel drag racing team that calculated the financial input of their runs based on how much the fuel costs per gallon and how much they burn each 1000 ft, 3-second run. If I heard it correctly (it was playing the background while I was making breakfast), it was $225 per run. So he asks me to help him with some math (he did it all, I just looked over his shoulder) and he figures that a typical 12 second run of a 4-engine mod on nitro would cost approximately $3600.

Before we loaded up for school this morning he tells me "...nitro is too expensive to use in tractor pulling. And besides, I am not so sure if a driver used it once, he would be alive for a pull off or session 2...". (see comment above) As he walked out the door, I just laughed because we have had the discussions about parts breakage on pulling machines, class numbers, etc...and that was when using the proper fuel. I love his thought process.

Thank you all once again.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 21, 2019 08:40AM
Sounds like you raised a well educated kid! Glad to see his interest in pulling and glad everyone could provide him with the answers he was looking for!


Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 07:25AM
TA/D or TA/FC or even pro mods would be very similar setups. I don't think the NHRA guys would hot lap theirs' like pulling does in a pull off. Pullers may even be detuned some because of the chance of a pull off.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 07:52AM
Years ago i remember the announcers at Tomah claiming that the TWD trucks shared a rules package with Top Alcohol Funny Car. Whether that was true or not, Im not sure.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 12:10PM
Any one ever use Nitro-methane in a puller...or suspect it has been done by a competitor? It would be pretty awesome to see a 4 engine mod make a run on it. Maybe it could be a new class...lol
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 02:15PM
I'm pretty sure I've seen a pass with some nitro in it. It was an Open Super at the farm show some years ago; serious flames out the stacks and even though it didn't run clean (at all) it still made a pretty strong pass. I'm guessing they mixed a little nitro in and they just added a little too much.

If pulling allowed nitro then I'd only watch from behind bullet proof glass!


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 20, 2019 02:33PM
Quote
prostockpuller
Any one ever use Nitro-methane in a puller...or suspect it has been done by a competitor? It would be pretty awesome to see a 4 engine mod make a run on it. Maybe it could be a new class...lol

I have used nitro paraffin(VPM5) in an IH 301 with a cast head with 2 dinky turbo chargers and I beat many that had 505 cubic inch with state of the art aluminum heads and big turbos. It was and is still legal in the organization that I did that in.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 21, 2019 12:24PM
Me an everyone else would like to know what association this is !!!
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 21, 2019 02:48PM
Quote
Curious
Me an everyone else would like to know what association this is !!!

Really?
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 22, 2019 01:10AM
Yes really !!!!, don't act like im stupid, M5 is not legal to run anywhere that i know of, sure some are running it but not legally !!!
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 22, 2019 06:39AM
The outlaw organization says vp fuel only and m5 is made by vp. Also they say no nitromethane, but m5 is not nitromethane. Not sure but I would say it is legal to run there.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 22, 2019 06:51AM
Sounds like something that may not pass the smell test.......and but that I mean a sniffer at the blow by tube. It's not nitromethane, but it is a secondary fuel. This is why some orgs went with a corporate spec fuel in the first place.....to get away from the judgement calls. Just because it is a product made by vp (M5) doesn't mean it is "allowed".
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 22, 2019 05:13PM
It is legal in ISP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2019 05:15PM by Supertiquer.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 23, 2019 12:00AM
Hum, didn't know that, i guess you learn something everday, Question --- do you have to change fuel settings to run M5 ?
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 23, 2019 02:30AM
Yes, richer, can't remember the amount but it's not drastic.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 23, 2019 06:03AM
Grey area
It will be out next year.
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Re: Question - Engine Differences Between NHRA and Pulling August 23, 2019 04:59PM
I hadn't heard that yet. What ever they want to do is fine. But one thing I know about M5 is that it is not an accelerant but a "decelerant". Because of the oils in it, you get a longer burn in the cylinder. At least that is how the people from VP explained it to me. Normally at the end of a run you can tell who is running it because at the end of a run, it makes a nice BLUE light show that stays for as long as it takes you to get off the track! Smiling
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