KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 08, 2019 01:46PM
I have spent most of my summer, and life, pulling tractors. In light of what has happened recently with NTPA, safety is very important. I’m disappointed to say that the majority of pullers I pulled against couldn’t follow the rules that they voted for. Not only a safety rule, but also a rear end rule. The worst part is that no one has any regard for the rules they are breaking and REFUSED A PROTEST. I’m very disappointed in KTPA and the ethics and morals they showed they have tonight.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 08, 2019 02:29PM
After pulling in single engine modified, a member went to the registration booth and asked to protest three tractor’s rear ends in the class. They called KTPA’s president over. The member told the president he would like to protest and the president told him no. Said there were too many hooks and he didn’t feel like fooling with it that night. I then posted the above on Facebook to the page “friends who like KTPA”. The post was deleted and myself and the member trying to protest were blocked from the page. The pull was a benefit pull, which is their excuse for not allowing the protest to continue however, it was still a points pull and rules should be honored no matter what.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 02:40AM
The rear ends in question were thought to be breaking the 2WD agricultural rear end rule. No matter what was wrong with them, the president refused to allow the protest to happen.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 03:19AM
The point is the rules are rules no matter where the pull is or what it is for. The rules state that a protest can be made right ? If the president of the association doesn't allow it then he is also breaking the rules.. I have no tractor or anything in this race but I see this issue at all levels of pulling. I would continue the protest at another event and definitely have the discussion at your annual meeting.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 03:20AM
If its a points hook which Emily stated then rules need to be followed regardless if its
a benifit pull.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 03:52AM
If this was a points pull the protest no doubt should have been honored. Just because it was a benefit pull, that has no bearing on the rules. If this show had not been sanctioned and not running for points I could see this happening, but no way under these circumstances should the protest been denied. My suggestion is any time there is a benefit pull, no sanction,or no points, but under sanction rules. I realize this was for a good cause,just wasent handled properly,and at least needs an explanation to the protester.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 04:23AM
If it was a sanctioned class with points then it doesn't matter what the pull is, the protest has to be handled. It wasn't a free for all. I'm sure they crossed the scales and had their drawbar checked, but no protesting for possibly breaking another rule? This isn't good for ktpa. and blocking them from the page wasn't the correct response either.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 07:48AM
Read her posts a little more closely. She said a MEMBER wanted to file a protest. She never claimed she filed the protest.
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To Single engine puller September 09, 2019 07:52AM
Here is the procedure directly from the KTPA Rulebook. We cannot say whether the OP followed these, but I'd like you to point out where it says a puller must be KTPA member to protest.


Protest Procedure
1. Protest must be submitted in writing to a tech official within 10 minutes after class being protested is over. All items to be checked must be listed separately. Once protest is made no party in protest can back out. If the protester wants to back out and not complete the protest, he still has to put out the
money for the protest. All money will go to the person being protested in this situation.
2. Protester must be in the same class as the protested. Any puller in the class may protest regardless of finish position.
3. A protest fee must accompany protest. Protester must put up cash or check. If using a check, it is to be made payable to KTPA if check is not good, legal action will be taken to collect.
4. During a protest, only the tech official, owner of vehicle or one team member may be present during protest, unless owner request help for tear down.
5. Person causing any amount of trouble during a protest will be disqualified, either party.
6. Engine protest in any class will be $1000 (unless class rules specify otherwise). This will be a complete tear down including carburetor, pulling of one head, checking bore and stroke, pulling cam shaft if needed. Tech official’s discretion on pulling of cam. If protested refused to let protest continue he/she will not be allowed to pull that vehicle for 12 months from date. Tech official will receive $100 and the person in the right will receive $900. (If you deny protest you will not pull protested vehicle with KTPA for 12 months from that date.)
7. Cubic inch check on pump is $100.00. Tech official receives $25.00 for cubic inch check (See cubic inch pump procedure.)
8. On a complete tear down or cubic inch check on pump, the tech official has the choice of which head to be pulled or cylinder to be pumped. (Formula 0.7854 x stroke x bore x bore x number of cylinders)
9. Nitrous protest charge is $150.00. This is for checking necessary places. Tech official will receive $25.00 for nitrous check.
10. Fuel protest is $300.00. Protested must tell the tech official what brand and octane the fuel is that he/she is running. Fuel will be pulled at the carburetor or dumped valve. This fee will include drawing the fuel and sending it to an outside lab. If the fuel is right the protester pays the fee, if the fuel is wrong the puller in the wrong must pay the fee to cover the cost of testing the fuel.
11. Transmission protest is $75.00. Tech official receives $25.00. Check transmission by roll out through motor or remove top.
12. A visual protest fee is $250.00 for complete
measurement. Any visual protest consists of
checking hitches, wheelbase lengths, check
carburetor, will be checked with a NO GO TOOL
(1.567 inches) (may require removal), anything
concerning weight box, or any other visual
inspection. 2 Tech officials will receive $50.00 a
person and in the right, receives $150.00.
13. If vehicle is found illegal, contestant shall lose points for the pull and will not pull for two consecutive pulls in the class the vehicle was found illegal. If the vehicle is found illegal twice for the same infraction the vehicle loses all accumulated points and the vehicle and driver/owner are ineligible for one year from date of second infraction. An individual that has two pulling vehicles registered with KTPA will be allowed to continue pulling the second vehicle only.
14. Protested is responsible for tear down of vehicle.
15. If protested refuses to let protest continue, he/she will not be allowed to pull that vehicle for 12 months from said date.
16. Sled protest – Protest fee to be $100.00 each party, person in right to receive money, less $25.00 to the tech official. Tech committee to inspect the sled for discrepancy and has final ruling.
17. Protest is not allowed for general safety violations, not explicitly covered by class rules. The tech official only enforces all safety rules on vehicles. Any safety violation noted by the tech official is put in writing and given to the secretary. The violation must be corrected before the vehicle is allowed to hook at future events.
18. Tech official, if needed, reserves the right to delay all protest decisions for three working days.
19. The tech committee has the right to make all decisions regarding these rules.
20. When a protest is in place and neither tech official is disputing the others call, then the call is final and no further action can be taken.
21. The KTPA Board cannot change or accept any class rules that were not accepted by the class during their class meeting.
22. (Tech committee consists of tech officials and Board of Directors – DUTIES AND AUTHORITY OF THE TECH COMMITTEE) any dispute, can be settled during or following an event by a discussion and vote of the members of the tech committee present at any given event. If any member of the tech committee is involved in the dispute, they will not have a vote and cannot sit in on the meeting. If the member is class spokesperson then the class alternate will be called in, if present. A majority vote of the committee will be required to enact decision. Any puller can call a meeting of the tech committee by a written request given to any member of the tech committee. Any member of the tech committee may call a meeting of the committee if they witness any infraction of the sanction body rules. The decision of the tech committee is final. All meetings of the tech committee will be closed except to members of the committee and person filing complainant.
23. Tech officials are considered part of the Board of Directors and may sit in on the meetings. All tech officials will have a vote on the Board.
24. There will be no Board meetings held at any of the competition events.
25. At the end of each season tech officials must be voted upon and approved by the board at the meeting of the board mmediately following General Meeting.



Edited 16 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2019 08:20AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: To Single engine puller September 09, 2019 10:28AM
Michael, thanks for posting those. Those to me look like pretty clear rules.
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Re: To Single engine puller September 09, 2019 11:11AM
Michael,
Upon approaching the trailer, it was inquired HOW to protest. I'd also like to point out the member wanting to protest DID pay the one time hook membership fee, as they had a tractor that pulled in the class. I'd also like to add that the member asked if you had to pay the KTPA membership for the year before protesting and Courtney Bentley, the secretary of KTPA, said you did not. I'd think if anyone was to be familiar with the rules, the secretary would be. The reason the person wanting to protest didn't pay the year KTPA membership is because there have been issues with the club in the past.
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Re: To Single engine puller September 09, 2019 01:34PM
The protestor wasn't sure of the process to protest. Immediately after the class ended (during awards) they went and asked how to do it and price, as there were once forms to fill out to submit the protest. The secretary of the club wasn't completely sure of the process so she called the president over as she got the rule book out. The president was told the protestor wanted to protest and then said "no, we aren't doing that tonight". The protestor wasn't told the price, nor given the form (which was later informed that the forms were fazed out). It was clear that even if the protest was in writing, it would not have been accepted. The protestor asked multiple times if the president was refusing the protest which the president responded "yes, I'm refusing the protest" multiple times.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 11:17AM
I would prefer to never join KTPA, especially after this incident. Personally, I have been excluded and the victim of more than one mean look from multiple members of the club. I pull at KTPA pulls because of family that lives in Kentucky. At a KTPA pull earlier this year, I sat with my tractor in the line up and watched two pullers walk down the line up telling everyone good luck while I received a mean look. If KTPA refusing a protest doesn't speak ethics about the club, I'm sure I can come up with many more examples that show their ethics, values, and morals. This has gone on long enough and refusing the protest has been the final push that has encouraged me to publicize their actions.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 01:00PM
Quote
Emily Benton
I would prefer to never join KTPA, especially after this incident.

Don't do that. Join and show them what you are made of. I feel like you did the right thing by standing up. Ignore the mean looks.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 09, 2019 07:11AM
The pullers donating the money back says nothing about the club. It speaks volumes about the pullers but has nothing to do with how the club handled the situation. The president immediately said no.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 02:43AM
As I said before, I pull with them because I have family in the area they pull. Years ago we used to pull with them regularly. Since then, the club has changed and continued to go down hill. I wanted to spread awareness to what happened so others don't have to go through the same thing. It's no fun to pull against others who are breaking the rules but can't be protested. It's completely unfair and the president seemed to be protecting them. Seems to me that if they want the club to continue and be successful, they have to abide by the rules they write. They clearly didn't and didn't even show interest in following the rules.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 03:56AM
Do you really think that a charity pull has difference rules and if the club had have followed there own rules the protest would have been done where almost no one would have known about it. But not by following there own rules they made mess
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 03:41AM
You say you didn’t know the protest procedures, but they are listed in the rules you posted above. Seems to me they are pretty clear. You also say that the action of the pullers donating their money back to the benefit doesn’t speak for the club. I disagree! The members are what makes the club. KTPA is member owned and they have the best members! Also, seems to me you’re playing the pity game because you have been excluded from “good lucks”. Maybe your attitude, personality and sportsmanship has something to do with that......just something to think about. You also want to degrade the ethics of KTPA. Have you looked at your actions? Ethically speaking, no human person would ask for a protest at a pull to benefit childhood cancer.....points or no points pull. Lastly, if you feel the need to protest, please do so at Carlisle on Saturday!!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 04:36AM
Ethically speaking, everyone would follow the rules like I do. And ethically speaking people wouldn’t be blatantly rude to an 18 year old girl trying to join the sport. And as far as I’m concerned the presidents actions do not agree with everyone in the club, as many people have been shocked and disappointed in the refusal of the protest. We did know the rules about protesting but wanted to be 100% sure we were following the correct procedure. I see nothing wrong with double checking. I’m not playing any pity cards. I’m telling the truth about the actions I’ve seen at events, charity pulls or not.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 05:15AM
Maybe some people should take their own advice in this post. Nobody got all up in a hizzy until someone wanted to use “facts”. But the fact of the matter is the protest was refused at the presidents own call. Secondly a tractor pull is a tractor pull no matter how you look at it. If there are rules in place they need to be followed. It was a sanctioned event in witch all rules need to be followed. Any other organization in the country would have followed the rules regardless of what or why the pull was for. Weather it be a brush pull of a grand national Ntpa hook. And finally I’m sure if she wanted to run KTPA she would have no problem doing so. Since in 2016 the tractor she drives had a points title that was a walk in the park to win. It’s a shame that some people have to cheat in order to do better. That’s why there is protest procedures that were trying to be followed. But then we’re shot down. Good luck Emily and I’m sure if you went to Carlisle you and your dad could do something to put big distances on the rest of the pack like I have watched him do so before.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 05:45AM
Read rule 1, 2, 3, above. Pretty simple to write a protest and hand a check with it. No one said that happened. If not, there was no protest. Verbal "I want to protest" is not a protest. Follow the rule instead of all the talk.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 06:10AM
As I said before, there was no written protest because it was believed there was a form that had to be filled, which was inquired about. The check was there and it was stated money wasn’t the issue. “I want to protest” was said for that reason.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 01:03AM
The reason why we can’t protest at KTPA is because a few of the KTPA Single Engine Modified pullers have changed the protest money to $1,000 so that nobody can protest them because we know for sure that are obviously cheating. These specific pullers have cheating for many years (which i was told by numerous people). I agreed with Emily Benton 100%, even if it’s a benefit pull... the president shouldn’t decline the protest because he doesn’t want to deal with it. The President is also breaking the rules that are stated in the KTPA rule book.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 01:29AM
Where did you see the $1000.00 protest fee? I thought what I had read it was $250.00. Either way the money was never a issue. Please clarify the rule.
Thank you, Robbie Benton. HAYMAKER
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 05:52AM
For those that think she's in the wrong I bet if she showed up with 24.5 tires on and tried to pull none of you all would have liked that if you were pulling against her. If it looked like she had way too many weights on the tractor or had a drawbar too high I'd say you all would have been telling the president to make her cross the scales and get checked. You probably would have even said something along the lines of "just because it's a benefit pull doesn't mean you get to break the rules." But they think some of the competitors have illegal rear ends and the club won't let that be checked? You don't get to pick and choose. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 08:30AM
For sure,- many things in life are not "FAIR'. PERIOD.NEVER HAS BEEN,-- NEVER WILL BE,WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND WE ALL LOOK THE OTHER WAY, When someone tries to make a correction,this happens,why we as a country have a huge problem,not much pride,self esteem or integrity left.Look around and see how many issues are handled this same way.Ethics and morality need to be important in a civil society,-- I see less and less every day.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 12:08PM
I was at the pull in question and also pull in this class,not pulling that night,as far as i know the tractors in question have been running the same rear ends all year and I know the winning tractor is running a agricultural rear end,maybe not same as others but still a ag rear. No one likes to get beat they way the winning tractor won by, maybe he has found something to change to improve performance, something we all are in search of. The winner is a seasoned veteran of this class and is competent enough to not have to cheat!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 12:26PM
KTPA also offers a one time hook for the amount of $60. You will not receive any points, or have voting rights for doing a one time hook. The one time hook fee does not count toward a membership. Did you pay this or the full membership fee? This is copied from KTPA rules
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 12:44PM
It dont matter if its a one time hook or a life long member the same right to a protest is still there dont matter if the protester is right or wrong a benifit pull if its a scheduled event is know different than any other and all of these events are just another local show Go girl for at least trying to do something everyone else wants to do but just does the behind the back talking about not saying you would have won or lost the protest
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 01:25PM
Quote
Lewis Conner
It dont matter if its a one time hook or a life long member the same right to a protest is still there dont matter if the protester is right or wrong a benifit pull if its a scheduled event is know different than any other and all of these events are just another local show Go girl for at least trying to do something everyone else wants to do but just does the behind the back talking about not saying you would have won or lost the protest

I agree with you Lewis. This is a matter of principle here.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 12:48PM
The secretary told us that you don’t have to pay the full membership fee. We did have a tractor that ran in the class, just like the rules call for.
I’m not sure why everyone wants to pick at the validity of us making the protest. We were able to protest, according to the rule book. The problem is that KTPA denied us opportunity to protest other tractors. That is what I am trying to publicize.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 12:43PM
If you know so much about the winning tractor, what kind of rear end is it? I know people are running skidder rear ends in single engine classes and that is against KTPA rules, as skidders are 4WD. Regardless, if you are confident enough that no one is cheating why be worried about being protested if you know you’ll pass? I heard from a former member of KTPA that the class spokesperson raised protest charges. Why do that if you’re confident you would pass the protest? Just doesn’t seem to add up to me. I have no problem with a good tractor winning a class by 20+ feet as my tractor has done that before. The problem is breaking the rules and refusing a protest so cheaters don’t get caught. And running something illegal for years doesn’t mean it’s no longer against the rules. It just means someone has gotten away with it for years
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 02:23PM
It shouldn't matter if every tractor in the class was legal and followed every rule to the letter. If a puller wanted to go up to another's tractor, measure the hitch height themselves, find it to be the legal height, and then file a protest--it doesn't matter. A puller has the right to protest another as long as they have the cash on hand. It doesn't matter the reasoning or whether or not those being protested are legal. Do you all throw this much of a fit when you have to cross the scales at a pull? ("But I weigh 6,000 pounds, believe me!")

If everything is on the up-and-up, let the competitor being protested take home the money and call it a day. Checks and balances aren't a bad thing, I promise.


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 03:08PM
I remember back in the day when we were pulling with KTPA a fellow puller got protested on C.I. and he was thrilled because he knew he was going home with the protest money as well as first place money...he wasn't worried he was happy!

I would think that if no one was worried the protest would have been carried out, but then I don't know the details of why it didn't happen.

S'no Farmer
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 10, 2019 03:28PM
Well said John. From the sounds of it the protest should have been carried out and the President seems to be in the wrong. This isn't about winning the protest or whether it was a charity pull, or whether it's a good rule, heck, it's not even about knowing the exact protest procedure perfectly. If ANYONE wants to protest they should grab their rulebook and ask the secretary/president/ranking official/etc... what the next step is and the club should be a helpful and unbiased middleman in the process. That's their responsibility as an organization. They are a governing body and they should.. govern! The club shouldn't be looking for I's that aren't dotted and T's that aren't crossed, they should be assisting the process to make sure the competition is fair regardless of the outcome of the protest.

With something like a rear-end protest it's not even time sensitive. They could have informed the puller of the protest and then dealt with the details AFTER the event was over. It's not like it was for fuel or water and he's not going to change the rear-end in the pits. If the puller being protested was legal he'd surely stick around for the extra cash and to win the protest to clear his name. If he loaded up and left it would be an admission of guilt. It's simple and straight forward and the clubs job is just to be an unbiased governing body and it appears they failed in their primary duty.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 13, 2019 02:13PM
You have obviously been running against this tractor for at least the past couple of years,in Ohio , which it pulls there more than several times a year with your own organization, and in Kentucky.... Why protest now ?... you have had plenty of opportunity in the past. Nothing has changed on it....
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 13, 2019 03:18PM
Quote
Kytrainer
You have obviously been running against this tractor for at least the past couple of years,in Ohio , which it pulls there more than several times a year with your own organization, and in Kentucky.... Why protest now ?... you have had plenty of opportunity in the past. Nothing has changed on it....


Again, I don't believe that's the point of what Emily has posted.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 03:46AM
Everybody see the point of this thread? Now, do you all see it flying over the heads of a few individuals posting in it?


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 12:42PM
Yeah John, but what rear-end where they running? How long have they been running it? What gear ratio does it have? Who made the axles? Are they KTPA members? Have they paid their membership fees? How much is a membership? Can I become a member? Were they still wearing firesuits when they protested? What color shoes were they wearing when they protested? Was is a charity pull? What charity was it? How much money was raised for charity? How warm was it that day? What was the wind direction? Did they shower in the morning before the protest? Did they floss and brush their teeth? Did they picket before the protest? Why didn't they protest them somewhere else? Why protest them now? Why didn't they protest them last year? Why didn't they protest them in some other state? Why didn't they protest them in some other organization? Are they cat people or dog people? What is their political affiliation? Do they have any food allergies? Why don't they just use one of their coaches challenges? Are they out of timeouts? Why don't they build a Mod from a Delorean and get it up to 88 mph and protest them in the past? If they do build a Mod from a Delorean and protest them in the past do they have to do it at the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance? Can you put a KTPA legal rear-end in a Delorean? Is there an app for protesting?

John you're missing the point, we need to know ALL these important facts?

Wait... what? None of those things are relevant to the discussion? My bad.

KTPA looks bad on this. They could have easily come on here and stated their side of the story. Either that or they could have come on here and simply said that they made a mistake and handled the situation and the procedure poorly and that they were taking measures to simplify and streamline the protest process to ensure that mixups like this wouldn't happen in the future. Problem solved.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 01:00PM
jeez jake that would be toooooooooooooooooooooo simple and surely above any of the people who should be in the know purview as Bob Mueller stated.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 01:15PM
Quote
Jake Morgan
Yeah John, but what rear-end where they running? How long have they been running it? What gear ratio does it have? Who made the axles? Are they KTPA members? Have they paid their membership fees? How much is a membership? Can I become a member? Were they still wearing firesuits when they protested? What color shoes were they wearing when they protested? Was is a charity pull? What charity was it? How much money was raised for charity? How warm was it that day? What was the wind direction? Did they shower in the morning before the protest? Did they floss and brush their teeth? Did they picket before the protest? Why didn't they protest them somewhere else? Why protest them now? Why didn't they protest them last year? Why didn't they protest them in some other state? Why didn't they protest them in some other organization? Are they cat people or dog people? What is their political affiliation? Do they have any food allergies? Why don't they just use one of their coaches challenges? Are they out of timeouts? Why don't they build a Mod from a Delorean and get it up to 88 mph and protest them in the past? If they do build a Mod from a Delorean and protest them in the past do they have to do it at the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance? Can you put a KTPA legal rear-end in a Delorean? Is there an app for protesting?

John you're missing the point, we need to know ALL these important facts?

Wait... what? None of those things are relevant to the discussion? My bad.

KTPA looks bad on this. They could have easily come on here and stated their side of the story. Either that or they could have come on here and simply said that they made a mistake and handled the situation and the procedure poorly and that they were taking measures to simplify and streamline the protest process to ensure that mixups like this wouldn't happen in the future. Problem solved.
Jake, that's pretty good. lol Smiling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2019 01:20PM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 01:42PM
I’m not sure why it’s relevant that we decided to protest. The fact of the matter is the protest was asked for and it was denied. I’ve also heard that KTPA has allowed its pullers to pull drunk and protests have been denied before.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 14, 2019 03:08PM
Quote
Emily Benton
I’m not sure why it’s relevant that we decided to protest. The fact of the matter is the protest was asked for and it was denied. I’ve also heard that KTPA has allowed its pullers to pull drunk and protests have been denied before.

The protest should never have been denied!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 12:33AM
In the past when I travelled and pulled at new venues,was handed rules when I registered to pull,later when I made an inqury about others untits that did not meet the obvious rules set forth,-- I WAS TOLD I WAS A TROUBLE MAKER. And nothing was done.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 01:51AM
Well thinking out loud,It means why wait so long to make a protest? Everyone has been pulling against this tractor for a long time, why now make a issue? Because he put 7 feet on the 2nd place tractor , is this the first time something like this has happened? And as others have stated, it can’t be verbal, must be in writing. Nobody in ktpa in Kentucky says anything about the Ohio pullers coming to Kentucky to pull with over 600 ci inches engines, which is illegal In ktpa,...But that is ok... right?.... To be honest, this thread should never have been posted....A bunch of cry babies
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 02:36AM
Before you would make the statement about all the Ohio tractors who go down there to run are over 600 cubic inches you may want to make sure you know that for a fact before hand. Because the tractors in Kentucky are over 600 cubic inches. Nobody is crying just trying to put a cheater in their place. But with KTPA being a free for all they might as well not even have any rules at all. Same thing went for last year in their blown 4wd class where they wouldn’t stand behind their blower overdrive rule. KTPA is loosing pullers and pulls due to the way they run things. It’s all about the head guys in the club. They went from having the strongest group of 2wd trucks down there to only having like 5 pulls for them. The fact of the matter is KTPA denied it when they tried. Nobody was crying. Just calling people out. And if they are legal they shouldn’t have a problem with it.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 02:50AM
Why do you wake up and eat cereal for breakfast? What about eggs? Why do you decide if you should put on black socks or white socks that morning? I'm not sure why your convinced that someone's thought process is relevant. We finally got tired of seeing the rules broken. And as I said earlier, I have no problem with a good tractor putting a big distance on the class. Need I remind you my tractor once pulled 450 feet? And if you're insinuating that my tractor has a big motor on it, I BEG you to protest it. I would love to walk away with the extra cash. And for those concerned about the written part of the protest, KTPA should have forms made to do that. But since they are too unprofessional to do that, I spent the 10 minutes it took to create one so any puller who wishes to protest is welcome to have a copy. If you don't like OMTPA tractors pulling against you with their big engines, protest them. If it's abasing the rules and you don't like it, PROTEST THEM. That is what the protest process is for. As stated above multiple times, the protest procedure is checks and balances. I'd also like to add that it was requested to protest THREE tractors. No one was singled out. It seems to me that you are admitting guilt by assuming the winning tractor needed to be protested. No names were said, but everyone is assuming it was the winning tractor. Pretty much confirms that the winning tractor is illegal, since everyone seems to know so much about it.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 05:35AM
Your protest should have been allowed -- period !!!!! -- KTPA president should address this !!!!! Period !!! This is not the publicity that KTPA needs --- i was not there therefore id didn't see any of this, however i have seen things in the past that weren't right !!!!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 15, 2019 08:24AM
The post had every right to be posted. Apparently the president and leaders have no b---s or they would come on here and give their perspective or are you one Kytrainer ? Cry babies absolutely not. If you can't or don't want to enforce the rules don't have any period. This goes for any organization there is. Just have every single class be an open class. Hey maybe that's what pulling needs. It sure would be interesting.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 16, 2019 12:27AM
Kytrainer: I believe you're going off topic. Just to refresh everyone's memory. The topic is; Did KTPA handle their protest process properly?


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 17, 2019 02:35PM
To quote my father in a previous post "I believe you're going off topic. Just to refresh everyone's memory. The topic is; Did KTPA handle their protest process properly?"


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 17, 2019 03:14PM
Quote
Jake Morgan
To quote my father in a previous post "I believe you're going off topic. Just to refresh everyone's memory. The topic is; Did KTPA handle their protest process properly?"


From what I read here, no KTPA did not. Now that's just my opinion and I am not saying that anyone should agree with it.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 18, 2019 05:31AM
From my experience there is always three sides to everything but from what I have read, NO KTPA did not handle things per their rule book.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 18, 2019 11:51PM
Honestly, I find it humorous you would expect me, or even anyone else, would WANT to pull with KTPA after what they did. The situation was completely handled incorrectly. I would not want to ever again pull with KTPA after they showed they have no ethics or morals by denying the protest. I firmly believe that any other club would have honored the protest and I will stick with pulling with a club that wants to play by the rules.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 19, 2019 03:39AM
Does KTPA have a side to this story or are they just saying nothing because they know they wroi. Kinda odd that this post has been up so long and they haven't said anything
Make them look lost or they know they screwed up and just waiting for it to go away
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 19, 2019 11:52AM
You should change your rules to only members can protest then.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 19, 2019 01:33PM
Quote
mgdoug3
You should change your rules to only members can protest then.

Should only pullers who pay the full membership be allowed to use KTPA's insurance? Seems to me like they'll need it after I heard they were letting pullers go down the track drunk. You can't apply one thing to one time hook members and not all.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 19, 2019 02:21PM
Emily might be little, I’ll give you that.. but she has more brains then half the jello heads that pull in the class. They paid a one time hook fee as a “team” Bc it takes a few hands to get a tractor down a track, correct ? So I’m pretty sure you answer to the team but that’s just my opinion. Either way I’m sure if you had a daughter who pulled you’d never want her to fall to someone’s rudeness but here were are ... what a great pulling family ktpa is. God bless
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 16, 2019 12:56AM
That wasn’t very nice plum crazy, people all have different views on this. By the way, what were you doing down there listening to what I had to say anyway?
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 10:46AM
I deleted several posts that did not add any value to the topic.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 12:14PM
Sometimes ya gotta do, what ya gotta do.

I help moderate a couple gun forums with a few other people and my decisions aren't always liked, but that's just how it is.

I'd of locked this discussion down already.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 01:47PM
The bottom line is the protest should have been carried out somebody should have been put to shame win or loose.It looks bad on the tech man if the tractor was not legal to let it go this long.But its also possible someone dont know what a ford rear end looks like and the tractor in question is legal KTPA nor the puller in question has came on here and defended nothing come on guys get on here and get some action going
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 02:49PM
Quote
Lewis Conner
The bottom line is the protest should have been carried out

Amen!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 23, 2019 02:10PM
Rear ends in question do not have outboards planeteries they inboard same as fords and also except a lot of 3010 John Deere tractor parts axles housings axles ring and pinion
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 20, 2019 04:21PM
Quote
Pulling 101
Pull off - no wonder many say this site went corrupt, if a puller makes a real comment it gets erased- why even have a discussion if it's one sided "JOKE PAGE" would fit

Register your name so everyone knows it's a true puller that comments!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 21, 2019 02:11AM
The track judge or tech decision is final - Did they put up money to protest ?
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 21, 2019 06:58AM
The 2WD ag tractor rear end rule seems simple enough. What model tractor rear do the
"protested" mods have ?
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 01:37AM
The protest we tried to carry out was a rearend violation. The rule states that only a Agriculture 2wd rear end. A John Deere Skidder is not, 1 an agricultural tractor and 2 not 2wd. I've been repairing construction equipment for over 29 years. I've never seen a 2wd skidder. Facts are facts and wrong is wrong. As a team we have not been contacted by anyone from KTPA.
Thank you for the PullOff page for allowing this discussion. Robbie Benton
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 02:50AM
Why hand out a rules list and not follow it?Kids now days behave badly because parents behave badly,the apple don't fall from the tree.Much more of a problem than just here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2019 04:40AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 12:09PM
the rear end in question should be deemed legal. yes the rules state that it has to be ag related rear and 2wd. that particular rear end is used in many different model patriot 3 wheel ag sprayers, fertilizer spreaders, and manure spreaders. all of these 3 wheel machines are rear wheel drive only and use the same rear end as the deer log skidders. so yes to be corrected, these rear ends are out of a 2wd ag related machine. anyone that has been a mechanic in the ag field knows this is a FACT and can back it up.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 12:54PM
Please delete this what a bunch of cry babies.
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 01:29PM
A corn sprayer. fertlize spreader nor a manure spreader it is agg related but not a tractor a helicopter can be agg realated with spray booms how bout that for a engine rear ends from a mack with a silage bed is agg related give us a break here
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 01:45PM
Quote
long time ag mechanic
the rear end in question should be deemed legal. yes the rules state that it has to be ag related rear and 2wd. that particular rear end is used in many different model patriot 3 wheel ag sprayers, fertilizer spreaders, and manure spreaders. all of these 3 wheel machines are rear wheel drive only and use the same rear end as the deer log skidders. so yes to be corrected, these rear ends are out of a 2wd ag related machine. anyone that has been a mechanic in the ag field knows this is a FACT and can back it up.
Again that's not the point of what and why Emily posted. The point is the protest was DENIED!
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 22, 2019 09:56PM
Jake Morgan- PullOff Page,
We were simply stating that KTPA had denied our protest. Please remove this thread. It seems now we are labeled as cry babies. We will continue to run our tractor as we always have. Since my driver is away attending The Ohio State University our schedule may be limited. Thanks again to The Morgans for providing everyone this great site. Robbie Benton, HayMaker
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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 23, 2019 01:30AM
Robbie and Emily,
I think this thread has exposed some issues with KTPA and with protests in general. I think ALL organizations should take a serious look at their protest procedure and make them as streamlined as possible. The clubs job is to make the process easy, to assist when necessary, and to be impartial. Hopefully KTPA addresses this internally and doesn't let this happen again.

Unfortunately I'd also expect KTPA to quietly and subtly change their rules to make the rear-end in question compliant without any repercussions. Hopefully I'm wrong on this and they take appropriate action or, at the very least, offer an appropriate explanation (I'm guessing their explanation will look very similar to what "long time ag mechanic" posted).

No matter what, you're not crybabies for wanting people to follow the rules. The sport is better off for everyone when the playing field is level and fair.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: KTPA REFUSES A PROTEST September 23, 2019 02:38PM
Quote
Robbie Benton
Jake Morgan- PullOff Page,
We were simply stating that KTPA had denied our protest. Please remove this thread. It seems now we are labeled as cry babies. We will continue to run our tractor as we always have. Since my driver is away attending The Ohio State University our schedule may be limited. Thanks again to The Morgans for providing everyone this great site. Robbie Benton, HayMaker

Robbie, no one in their right mind would label you as cry babies. You stood up for what was right.
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DEAR LONGTIME AG MECHANIC September 23, 2019 02:55AM
Directly from the rule book it reads : Original agricultural tractor rear ends, 2WD only. Nice try on deleting that 1 word out of the rule to make it seem as though the skidder is legal but no luck a fertilizer spreader is not a tractor. I would assume that this is the reason the protest wasn't allowed and would bet in 2020 the word tractor would be eliminated from that rule, but for 2019 the rearend must come from a 2wd tractor or it is illegal.
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Re: DEAR LONGTIME AG MECHANIC September 23, 2019 06:19AM
They call a semi a tractor - look up the word tractor, thanks Jake a great post i enjoyed reading it - hopefully others will see - everyone works hard at it or on it when it comes to pulling. Nobody likes to be singled out our not heard
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Re: DEAR LONGTIME AG MECHANIC September 23, 2019 06:27AM
Once more mr. smart guy, you have to read the ENTIRE rule not just the part you want. AGRICULTURAL TRACTOR 2WD, But even if a semi was considered a tractor due to some ignorance beyond belief, the next line also says No outboard planetaries, so good luck making that hold up.
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