04:26:27am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
The following is not necessarily my personal preference in a perfect world, but it is a compromise.
Richard Morgan mentioned in another thread that NTPA was considering making the full pull mark 350' because sleds are having trouble stopping unlimiteds. I believe Richard ( or Jake) mentioned the fans can't tell a difference from now back 20 years as the speed down the track is the same. For sake of argument, let's accept the premise of those statements. Over in NHRA land, for years everyone ran a quarter mile (1320 feet). The nitro cars kept getting faster, and after Scott Kalitta's fatal crash at Englishtown, the race distance for top fuel and funny car was shortened to 1000 feet. What if NTPA took inspiration from the concept, and the thought that there's "no difference for the fan" in watching unlimiteds and tried this: Just as even the casual drag race fan can understand the nitro cars run a slightly shorter distance for safety, perhaps NTPA could set a standard distance, say 330', for all classes except unlimited mods, which would run 350'. With a minimally competent announcer, the spectators could be told the unlimiteds, the flagship class of NTPA, runs a lengthier distance than other classes because they make so much power, the extra distance is needed so the sleds can stop them. That would immediately set the unlimiteds apart as the top fuel of the pulling world, and also provide a valid basis for running them 350' when other classes would run 330'. Again, imo in a perfect world everyone would run one distance just as in a perfect world, top fuel and funny car would still race a quarter mile, but this compromise would also give a firm delineation to the fans that the unlimiteds are the primo power class in all of pulling. (That said, I still believe it's time to consider innovation in sled design). Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2019 02:04AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I couldn't agree more I think it's a great idea. I think the unlimited mods running out the 350 is probably the answer if we are not going to start dialing horsepower back. I would also like a standard of 330 ft for a full pull distance, everyone that goes past 330 will be back in a pull off. This will help the drivers and crew chief set up the vehicles for a standard pulling distance. No more of this "well today" we run 310, some place else we run 350. Let's have standard have rules that we're going to enforce and no more of this well somebody want past 350 today and they're not going to reset the sled and then next week we're going to reset the sled. Let's have clear and concise rules and then enforce them no matter who the puller! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Georgee
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Good concept,-- except the length needs to be 300 - 320 ft,many tracks are too short,seats are not that far out.sleds can stop em,just keep speed down from getgo.We are heading for some big accidents and people hurt if not more controlled. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Nathan Binder
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Why don’t the sleds use larger pans increase the the square footage of the pan in contact with the track. Then they could go back to 300 feet for a full pull . Just an idea |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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kpty
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bigger pan less pounds per sq. inch,-- need more weight,answer is easy,hit harder,quiker,with pan drop,-- then the real tuners will shine,butnot many like the truth anymore,facts are facts,like them or not,like other posters say,we are waiting for a bad accident to happen.Many blocks breaking,engine out of the unit,soon someone will be hit,side shields will not contain parts,we will see a whole unit in the stands.I am not against fast,power or new hy tech,just that people get to near the track,are lost in the moment and then sh**t happens.280' is a long distane to go,the best are at 300 or so,what is wrong with that,still shows the differences.Winter and cold and ice will take over soon,then another go around. Humans are never satisfied,we had smaller SUVs and good mileage,-- but not now,bigger,engines,more weight,less mileage and large tires to show our status,at the end no one remembers much that matters,we do this for family,friends and fun,where did that priority go.Sure weinning is good,but not everything. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Here’s a little different thought. If the sleds have trouble stopping the unlimiteds. Time there pass to 300 or designated full pull mark. Fastest run past 300 wins. Solves track length problem. Would speed up the show and ad a interesting wrinkle. Just a thought. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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ktpy
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Intersting concept,makes for a driving class,maybe thinking outside the box is a new way,however it is called tractor "PULLING", not racing. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Pro Pulling
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Funny to hear everyone talking about NTPA when PPL isn’t having these issues, or are they but they suck it up and pull. We all know NTPA has a few wheels off their wagon and neglect to fix it. So just another way to run pullers off, set the track length 350 and see what it does. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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speeding
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Michael, you equate UNL to Nitro Cars.
Nitro Cars got a shorter distance. Yet you want UNL to have a longer distance. You are thinking in opposite directions. UNL do not need longer distances which equate to a faster speed. Speed has consequences and can kill. Remember, tractor pulling is about pulling a load and not a speed race which the sport has become. So if the other classes standard full pull length is 330, make UNL at the original proven 300. Lets see all that power pull instead of racing. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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My Opinion
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Who wants to see a UNL Mod pull on a 300 ft long track.....I know that I and many others sure dont...A winning distance of about 320-330 ft is about right...We had 300 ft long tracks 50 years ago when 500 horsepower was really something.....Last night at Wheatland,MO only one Mod tractor went past 300 ft and lots around me weren't happy.. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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JaKe806
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Well heck, how about an 1/8 mile oval then?! |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Yep, there were 300' tracks 50 years ago. And they worked perfectly fine for 45 of them. This is what happens when you fix what isn't broke |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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456789
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right on Grubby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
Hmmmm, sentence number seven.....lets examine the part of that sentence that says. " .........tractor pulling is about pulling a load........ ", ya, it "should " be, but it ain't, not any more, (and probably never will be), and shortening the distance changes nothing. The "object" of our "modern" sport of "pulling", especially with a weight transfer sled, (if pulling is what you want to call it these days), is to get as much "speed", (there's that word speed), and momentum built up "before" you actually get hit with any kind of "load". If speed and momentum are the objective early in the run, how can it be anything "but" a race. Watch a dead weight pull, where they only pull the sled a short distance of maybe 3' to 20', (yes, I think their boring to watch), depending on the clubs rules,........."but", those little tractors competing in dead weight pulls, are truly pulling their ass's off for all the power they've got, because their pulling an extremely heavy load from the get go. On the other hand, pros, supers, unl's aren't pulling squat for the power they have. Don't get me wrong, I like the pro, super and super farm stuff too, but only to a point anymore (i'm not a mini, unl. mod. or truck pulling guy), In my opinion, (and I guess that's just all it is), the "objective" in today's type of pulling, has ruined the sport for me and apparently a lot of folks, because the stands aren't filling up as they used to. At a lot of pulls , you can dam near count the fans in the stands as the camera follows the tractor down the track, when you watch a video of an NTPA pull and that's sad. Maybe the "objective" in pulling needs to change and how pulling is done . Maybe we need to start out with a heavy fixed load on the sled which "may" keep the speed down through out the duration of the run, then again, maybe I'm just full of crap too, But it would bring the sport more back to the point where we are truly "pulling " again and not just getting up speed and momentum under a "light" load and just "racing" it down the track as far as you can. I'm not saying speed shouldn't play a part in it, (I think , to some point, speed is part of the draw to the sport), but not as big a part as it has become Like I said, maybe I'm just full of crap for saying what I just did, and for thinking "way" to far out of the box. Or maybe the sport of pulling has went way to far down the wrong road to the point of no return. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Is the day of the pull off gone? The second or third pass to take the win seems to be something that many competitors don't want.
It appears that fans like to see that "monster" distance run and they respond just like a pull off run. It seems more often that not coming back for that second lap is going the way of the past. The sport of pulling has changed drastically in the past number of years, speed, more horsepower have increased. The infields of most fairgrounds have NOT becoming bigger. So that 350 mark becomes the new 300/full pull mark. No distance measure past 350, competitors just make the pull off. Measuring up to 350 only. Red flag for runs over 350, they make the pull off. Get out your CURRENT NTPA Rule book and look at the pull off rules, you may be surprised. Sleds set for the bulk of the class to be over 300 feet and the top runners near 330. Super Nationals could be floating finish past 350, no pull offs. Enderle this past weekend had some monster runs and NO returns for pull off. Crowd loved the COMPETITION and the big run. Joe Eder's pass was massive and so was the crowd reaction. I AM NOT IN FAVOR of making 350 the pull off mark other than at tracks that have a MORE than adequate shutdown areas. NTPA SUPER NATIONALS 350, all others 330. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I actually just got a couple of videos from a gentleman today of my passes at some Northeast Ohio pulls. At these events I went past the 350' full pull mark going quite fast. The crowd seem to love it even though I was driving one of those cookie cutter twin Hemi tractors that was pulling a sled what some people seem to think is a very light weight sled. Even though I had to wait quite some time while they loaded the sled with lots of 2000 lb blocks of lead! Seemed like fun on my part and the fans part but then I could be wrong!
S'no Farmer |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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....pulling a sled what some people seem to think is a very light weight sled.
Sleds should have a digital display showing how much weight is in the box, or a load cell between the tractor and the sled displaying the same. Then, the crowd could have some appreciation for how much tractors are pulling in relation to the different classes. Mike |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 12/30/2008 Posts: 275 |
426 foot, listen to the crowd video: [youtu.be] [www.ulmerracing.com] |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Fan
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Enderle is a "pulloff". Only 5 in the show to start with. However, a regular GN show is different. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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My Opinion
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Doc,you summed it up nicely.....We went just about all floating finish in my area over 20 years ago and the fans love the high speed pulls that mostly go past 300 ft on a 330-350 ft long track..I've yet to see the fans boo a high speed run of 335 ft to win a pull....In 2018 Brice Terry made a 421 ft pass on Hy-Strung at the MO State Fair and the crowd went absolutely wild....In my area it got to where none of the pullers even wanted a pull off...They would all say that their engines were broke or too hot for another run so they would just split first place money.....These days most fans want a pull to be over in 4 hours..Many years ago at a huge pull I made a pull off run at 2 AM..About all that was left there was the competitors in my class.....Mod tractors making 10,000 to 12,000 horsepower with tremendous wheel speed need a 350 ft long track....As much as some seem to want it to,pulling is not going back to where it was 30-40 years ago..I miss those days but they are gone forever.. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
and with that we all just keep letting it happen, my only concern where do we as organizations stop, if 400 is so great why not 450 or 600 that would be a monster run. I personally love a pulloff and will continue to be glad when it happens. I understand why some competitors want this but it doesn't make it any more palatable for me. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Haulin Oats
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I bet Bowling Green will still have pulloffs. They know what the fans want |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Exactly! Now that they've started messing with the original 300', it's never going to stop. They'll be pushing fir 400' within 5 years. And that line about not being able to stop them at 300' is a load of crap. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Grubby,
Sure they can stop them but the show would be horribly slow and boring. I watch old video of the Mods on dusty slow runs and I can't believe I liked them as much as I did. I like them much better the way they run them now. But that's just me I guess, everyone has their own opinion...that is mine! S'no Farmer |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
Maybe take a vote from licensed pullers from NTPA/PPL/Outlaws I like the fast runs and stop at 310-350 feet (one run and done) - too much breakage on the 2nd run. [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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My Opinion
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Some of you need to quit living in the past.....Lots of us dont want to see them stopped at 300 ft and I go back over 50 years to the days of walk on sleds.....Going back to 300 ft tracks and having pull offs isn't going to fill the stands like some on here seem to think will happen....As far as I'm concerned a 350 ft track is plenty long enough...50 years ago some of the old M&W tracks were prepped out to 500 ft or more and there were no pull offs....The Allison Team MM pulled 442 ft one year to win the 15,000 Open class..I was there and the crowd loved it.. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Georgee
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NOTEVERYTHINGNEWISBETTER. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 02/01/2010 Posts: 10 |
Yea I was pretty disappointed the last time I went to Bowling Green. They basically did away with pull offs. That was my favorite part of watching the pro stocks. The track usally gets a lot better going from day to night with 40 hooks or more. I think its more fair for the top tractors to pull in a pull off with the same track conditions. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
most all the grandstand seating was laid out in the 300 ft track era,personally I think since 350 is the new way the starting line should be moved back instead of adding onto the finish line.this wouldn't shorten the runoff area,and it wouldn't change the spectators view of the pull.lets face it,doesnt everyone want to watch the tractor,instead of the rear of the sled ?,most all fans gather at the finish end of the bleachers, |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Joke show
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Its STUPID to even descus this, yes tractors have more power, but it's still a tractor pull 300 ft track just like a quarter mile is a quarter mile . That's part of the sport you only get 300 feet. Let's start looking at the sleds - they are getting paid for their service - not to charge the rules of the sport . As far as a pull off every puller knows before they build or buy that that could happen- if you don't want to come back that's ok to but you should be happy with that spot because it was your choice. Don't take away from the sport |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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DESCUS
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They had to change the 1/4 mile because it wasn't working for the high power cars. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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like to know
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Does this mean we dont have to watch the mods at the Farm Show now because its a 240 track at best? |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Anonymous User
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Look at the whole picture, farm show great pull and the sled can stop them without the need of a longer track, it's the sled operator's job ( to get it set right) and he gets paid for it. - same pullers complain about hot engine's want longer tracks ?? - pull off's are still the most exciting part of the pull . |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Pullers of the highest level of pulling that cant run a 300 ft track beg for the opportunity to hit these short indoor tracks during the winter.OOPS just thought of something those are the same sleds used indoors as out and has no problem stopping any of them at 240 wat up wid dat |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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Registered: 12/19/2010 Posts: 163 |
Lewis, 1st time you have made a great statement. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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xxx
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"NOW THAT 'S FUNNY RIGHT THERE,-- DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE" !!!!!!! |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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chuck knapp
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I like the idea. |
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Re: NTPA full pull distance: A modest proposal
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If you look from the promoters view you can get a few more spectators in 350' bleachers than 300'. |
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Jimmy has a good ideal / This helps with social distancing
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
longer track floating finish longer bleachers more space for fans to spread out and not have to sit on top of each other it's a win / win for everybody or pay the puller for pull off money if you insist on having a pull off and pay the sled operator more for their extra runs |
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Re: Jimmy has a good ideal / This helps with social distancing
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My Opinion
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I agree...I was thinking of posting the very same thing and just never got around to doing it.. |
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Re: Jimmy has a good ideal / This helps with social distancing
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I'm not sure if promoters have the time and money to start expanding their tracks. Great ideas just not sure every track has that ability. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Jimmy has a good ideal / This helps with social distancing
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
I agree with you on that DM, many probably don't have the extra room or money. It was just a thought while I was daydreaming since we have no pulls to go to. 
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Re: Jimmy has a good ideal / This helps with social distancing
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My Opinion
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Most tracks in my area have been 325-350 ft long for years because floating finish has been around for a long time...My town preps the track to 400 ft and has lots left.I'm sure that some areas of the country dont have the room that we do. |
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