08:01:20pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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Pulling needs this class
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I believe that this class would have great fan appeal. Pulling needs something that the younger generation can relate to.
click here Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 12:47AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Hubba Bubba
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I agree, those things are wicked !!!! We need them here in the states. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LAF
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Do you know what the rules are , or where to get? I have always liked as well, and would have interest in building if brought to the states. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Posts: 1,159 |
Kevin Moore is trying to get this class going. He is out of Illinois and runs with the Tri County Pullers out of Wisconsin. He has done exhibition passes as places such as Henry, IL and Ellsworth, WI for their PPL pulls, as well as Gordyville this year, to try and get more people interested. I think it'd be a neat class to have at the state level. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
If I'm figuring it right, that's about 1300 lbs? Seems like going heavier would make them easier to handle. Que Blah Blah blah driver skill, everyone likes to see tractors actually make a decent pass. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
I think it would be good class but needs to be heavier and affordable
If we make the rules to keep it a $10k tractor it would take off but if you let it go wide open it will be like everything other class only a few will do it It would be a good class to introduce into antique pulling to speed things up and that would probably be the better type of sled Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 02:36AM by bbailey. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Dave Dann
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1) Oh, no, another square box IH Hood class ! Can tractor pullers not become more creative and with the rather more current tractor hood styles?
2) On the plus side: A) Could tell both times that the great looking Ford 9600 came off the line, it was destined for a great hook, especially in the first round.  Glad to see him win. And look at the simplicity and portability of a stage, that incorporates important sponsors, to recognize the top 3 placers. Something that is usually lacking here in the States.
3) About 20 years ago, NTPA brought into their sanctioning, the NGTPA that featured this type of pulling tractor. Paul Weidinger from Ohio put a lot of effort into trying to make this a successful state and national venture, but unfortunately it really never grasped ahold. 4) Mr. Jo, It was great to see under the hood of these little smoke belching behemoths and to listen to them on the track - just like the big SSD!! 5) Very enticing to see this class become a true reality here on this side of the pond. Thanks Dick for bringing it to our attention. Well, I got to go get some apple trees pruned for this day. Have a good day everyone! |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Those dang Fords. Lol. Thanks for the video. It would be neat to see what setups they run. There was Deere running in open garden tractor pulling here in northern Pa. a few years ago. He ran too good for them I guess. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Lawn and garden
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Starting a class with a thirty thousand dollar shied diesel will never get off the ground besides it needs to be heavy enough for the larger sleds |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I was pulling at Mt.Upton NY a long time ago and some gas mini tractors where running too. I asked about the cost to build one and a driver told me his motor was around $20,000 and that was a gaser. Hard to believe. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
I agree with the sled comment. Hiring another sled for one class at many pulls isn't going to work out well.
Considering that most big sleds can work with a 3500lb antique, I'd think one of these compacts at 2500-3000 and a bigger tire would probably work out on a big sled. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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southpull
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A 3500 lb antique is a whole different ballgame because they're easing out of the hole and trying to do 4 or so mph. Those mini trucks they run in KY and other areas are 4000 or more pounds with a 26 or 27" drawbar and if the track isn't good they struggle bad. I don't think there's any way you get those working on a big sled without increasing their scale size a good bit.
I saw a video of a similar one making a pass at Gordyville on the mini sled and it looked like it did fairly good but could tell it was a load for it. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Kevin C
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Dave - I took this pic at Tomah in 2001, are these the NGTPA diesels you are talking about? I thought they looked like a lot of fun, don't remember them hooking to a sled at that event. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 05:34AM by mh49. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
My younger generation fan reference was not just about being the driver of one of these mini diesels, but rather the fan in the stands watching the class. And I think a father son build would be great fun. Also I believe that there are a number of sleds in the country that where build for the modified mini class that would work well. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
That tractor was built and owned by John Donnersbach and the one in the background was built by Tim Dilgard both of North Central Ohio. I am not sure about Tomah but I know both of them pulled the mini class at Bowling Green around that time. If I remember right, the Deere had a 4 cylinder Ford Diesel and the Cub had an IH 4 cylinder Diesel from a backhoe. |
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Re: NGTPA Pro Stock Diesel Tractors
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Kevin C. & mh49 are fairley close. The John Deere tractor was built and owned by John Donnersbach and the Cub Cadet in the background was built and owned by Tim Dilgard both of North Central Ohio. We both made exihibition passes @ Tomah after the mini class in 2001, Trying to promote the new class Dale Quammie and others were trying to get started. Later that summer Tim & I had them on display at Bowling Green Championship Pulls. The John Deere had 4300 compact sheet metal & a 3 cylinder 3600 Ford tractor Diesel engine, TRB gearbox, 2 disk 11" crower clutch and 18.4x16.1 Mini tires. The Cub had an IH 3 cylinder industrial Diesel engine, SCS gearbox 2 disk crower clutch. tube chassis built by Tim Dilgard and 18.4x16.1 Mini tires. We had to run around 2100# because the engines were fairly heavy. They both had Bosch "A" pumps off a small 3 cylinder Duetz engine. We used Dodge Cummins Holset turbo from CDS. They both were sold to pullers in Pennsylvania and are still being pulled with the big tired Mini's. We use tractor engines because we felt they were way more durable. |
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Re: NGTPA Pro Stock Diesel Tractors Picture
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Here is the picture from BG 2001 & a picture of the John Deere 4300 now owned by Fred Herzog Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 11:12AM by PULLMX. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Discrimination
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Not Fat Man Friendly! Make Pulling Fat Man Friendly Again! |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
As Dick said it would be good for a younger generation so that means it has to be kept reasonable
Every class doesn’t have to start as a big hot class let it evolve so that some of us can afford to do it and let it grow in stages My boys would be all over this but I’m afraid to try and do it because 6 months later it’ll be talked about as some grand national class and then it’ll never happen If you want young people then you have to use some common sense |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Wheeler
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I don't think i would consider this class something that the younger generation can relate to. Even though these things look cute and small I'm sure the price of building one isnt too far off of building a hot farm or a pro street diesel truck if not more. Plus I'm not sure I'd put my 12 year old son it to see him smoke a concrete barrier or flip it over. Dont get me wrong this is a very neat class and I would also like to see this class form in the U.S but if you're looking for a class for the younger generation to relate to try looking at class thats more practical for a young adults budget and driving skill. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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This would be great. I have one and run in the small block class in Ohio. We weigh 1850 lbs on 34 inch tires. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Ok I’ll rephrase this
I’m not talking about building something similar to what’s in the video,that would be fun but I wouldn’t put my boys on that right now either For one that blows the budget so that’s why we start out with the minimum Put an rpm limit on it and maybe a turbo size 4 cylinder 250 cubic inch any sheet metal all safety gear maybe 3500# so that they are drivable You could haul them easily behind a 1/2 ton truck or a few on a gooseneck |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Wheeler
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I like the sound of that! |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LEWIS
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I believe a hot utility class would be a fun class 28 0r 30 inch rubber and a couple hundred horses under the hood of a 2000 ford or a 1010 jd |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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newhollandpuller
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There's a pretty affordable garden tractor diesel class option already out there. You could build one for under $10K easily if you can do some work yourself.
[www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LEWIS
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Bryan recently i started a post asking about utility clases that didnt go any were.The reason for asking theres been a few here in ky interested in starting a class just like you mentioned with about a 250 cube limit and a 4500 pound weight with a 28 or 30 inch tire limit .these would work with any sleds |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LEWIS
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I put my last post in the wrong place but to i agree in europe they are running light weight volkswagon engines and such not the 4bt cummins thats trying to get started here |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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I Agree
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Dick,I agree with you...I'd want the class to be just the way they run them in Europe..The bigger and heavier you make them, the more they would cost..There are several sleds in my area that would work well with these light weight smokers...They hook every thing from stock garden tractors to 350 Chevy powered mini-rods.. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
This is a really cool looking class in the video but it would work best on a local/state level.
For something on a little bigger scale, in many ways, this would work: Lewis is right, I think. A class with roots in utility tractors would be interesting at 5000# 3 or 4 cylinder only, 275ci limit, put them on anything up to a 18.4. A class like that would have enough snot to pull a big sled and could be pulled around in a enclosed trailer that a modern half-ton pickup could move around. The reality is that this will be another "budget" class that will be "affordable" for a couple years then someone will break the bank on one, when that person should be in LLSS... Bryan Lively - 
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Dave Dann
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Bryan, once in the early part of each of the past 2 years (think I have that correct), we have tried to drum up interest in this kind of class. Did not seem to be much. But, let's keep promoting the formation of such.
Nearpass' mid size sled would easily handle this class. It might even handle the Mini Diesel class Dick showed us. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,140 |
You are aware, most of the tractors in the video use 1.9l VWs ?
They could actually make more power, but it's so difficult to get to the ground ... The guys I share my workshop with have one of these and got 3rd in the points in exactly that series shown in the video. It's got a 4 cyl A pump with 85mm, turbo off an 250 hp New Holland tractor and a hmd Intercooler. Rods are "china" and pistons are stock. Cam was changed a little. Rearend is Suzuki with MF 35 (aftermarket repair kit) planetaries. So it's not terribly expensive to build one - but it takes some knowledge (and front end weight). Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 12:27AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LSS Puller
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See, what Sascha said makes it sound like a great class. More ingenuity and less check book (like it used to be).
However, it would never stay that way very long over here. As said above, someone would have a $40k Scheid motor it in within 2 years haha |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Wheeler
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Box charger, rpm limit, and practical cubic inch limit are all things that would keep the cost down. Without these this will be another high budget class |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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James
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^^^^ please tell me where a box charger works I know it doesn't in my "southwest" part of the state I live in. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
They will work if everyone use what they are given. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2020 01:55AM by PULLMX. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Exactly
That’s what I want to do It will probably take a group of guys in a generally close proximity to build similar tractors to get it going but it’ll be like llss every state will have different rules and I’ll have another one setting in the corner of the barn all dressed up and nowhere to go |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Fitz
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Does anyone know how much HP those Europe tractors are making |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Wheeler
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Why wouldn't a box charger work James? For a class like this if everyone ran a S300 or S200 that is sealed from the turbo dealer so then no one can alter their turbos. And a S300 or S200 are both affordable and efficient and would work real well on a small cube 3 or 4 cylinder engine. Doing this will limit hp and would keep pullers from buying big money turbos, that means it would make this class affordable and practical. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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400hp ish
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They are round about the 400hp mark, but as Sascha said they could make more but it's hard to get the power to the track. Some turn up to 10000rpm, over that and they struggle to keep them together.
The lightweight is what keeps the class exciting. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Allot of cool ideas on here but wanted to remind everyone Tri county mini rods from wi already has rules for a similar class. It's a really cool class. Cudos to Kevin Moore and all of the work he has done to promote and evolve the class. Cudos to Jon Strandlie and the Thompson's for all the research and getting the rules together. My understanding is the engine changes compared to our European friends who gave us the idea was the Volkswagen motors and performance parts are not as available here as the Cummins bt stuff is. I apologize I can't go to in depth in the rules as I am a alky guy but I attached them below. From what I have seen I doubt they or a compact version would fare well on a big sled. This class struggles pulling our sled with our open class. This year we have decided to separate the 2 tractors we have and run them at there own sled setting so we put on a better show. As for budget friendly, is anything we do budget friendly? I cringe when I think about what I have invested in my small block econo mini rod. If you have any questions let me know and I'll gladly find out. We currently have 2 in our club with 2 more in the works I believe.
Tricountpullersinc.com Pro Stock Compact Diesel Tractor Division All Tri-County Pullers general rules and safety rules for the Open Division apply except as noted below. Maximum weight 2300 lbs. Single engine with a maximum of 250 cubic inches This class is for stock appearing tractors with full hood, grill and side panels. Must be recognizable as an actual modern production compact tractor or small farm tractor. Hood and grill can be from a different make than engine/frame/rear end. Engine must be compression ignition and use #2 Diesel Fuel* only. No spark plugs or alcohol as a fuel. Hitch height up to 15 inches allowed Engine must be commercially produced with at least 1000 units built. Engine block must have factory casting model and serial numbers visible. O.E.M. block cannot be altered in any way externally except for normal repair or for mounting fuel injection pumps. Maximum of 4 cylinders May be liquid or air cooled. No belt driven cooling fans. Electric fans only. O.E.M. head for that make/model engine only. No billet or aftermarket heads. No overhead cams. Maximum of 2 valves per cylinder. Injectors must remain in stock location. No billet injector pumps. No electronic or common rail injection systems. Tractors are allowed a single (1) turbo charger with any manifold modifications necessary to mount the turbocharger. Manifold pressure must be a single stage only. Turbocharger must be single shaft fixed vane type. No variable vane turbochargers allowed. No inlet or outlet size restrictions. Turbo must be fitted with a shutdown guillotine on the compressor inlet side of the turbo. Turbochargers not under the hood will be completely shrouded with steel .060” or thicker, except for inlet and exhaust pipes. Turbochargers under fiberglass hoods must be shrouded, except for the inlet and outlet pipes, with .060” steel or thicker under the area of the fiberglass. No wastegates or pressure reliefs of any kind permitted. All compressed air is to enter the intake manifold. All turbocharged engines are required to have one cable that must surround the engine block and head. This cable shall be located between the first and second cylinder through the exhaust manifold port area. The cable will be a minimum of 5/16” thick with two (2) clamps at the splice. The cable should allow for approximately 4” of slack. Water injection will be allowed. Must be plain water or water with water soluble lube only. Combustible agents (alcohol, oxygenators, etc.) are NOT allowed in water injection. No intercoolers or after coolers No propane, nitrous injection or any type of secondary fuel system of any kind will be permitted. Any stock appearing frame rail or tube frame is permitted. Tube frame must be covered with sheet metal. Full metal side panels to cover engine area. Minimum .060” steel or aluminum All inline engines are required to have an additional inner side shield consisting of .125” (1/8”) thick steel or titanium OR .250” (1/4”) aluminum inside of the current .060” steel or aluminum side panels with a minimum of .500” (1/2”) air gap. This shield is to be independent of the side panels and must be solidly attached at the top and bottom (4 point total minimum) with a minimum of 5/16” fasteners. This shield must extend from the bottom of the head to the centerline of the crankshaft and extend the full length of the block on each side of the engine. All tractors must have a fuel shut-off AND an air shut off mounted in the drivers’ compartment and within reach of the driver. Fuel shut off must return fuel to tank or loop back to pump. Kill switch device mounted on rear of tractor must disconnect power to the electric fuel pump along with activating turbocharger guillotine. Clutch and bell housing rules to be the same as the EconoMod division Automatic transmission shielded with 3/16” steel or 6 belt blanket from end of block to tail shaft. All other block adapters shielded by 3/16” steel the width of the adapter. *Diesel only with a dielectric value of no greater than 4.9 or less than 2.2 The dielectric meter shall use Cyclohexane to establish zero reference point in determining all diesel fuel dielectric constant values. The use of additives containing oxygen, such as nitro methane, propylene oxide, dioaxane, MTBE, alcohol (methanol, ethanol etc.) or nitrous oxide is prohibited. |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LEWIS
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Not ment as a smart remark or nothing but that class with those rules will go nowhere not many will spend 30 thousand for something that has to pull with lawn mowers in most states that extra sled is not an option and wont be happening .Also theres lots of the vw diesels across the country along with mitsibushi kobota yanmar and lots of otheres put that 4bt in something around 4500 pound and cut the expense of that custom Shied built 900 horse engine it may go somewhere. And considering lots of utilities had spark plugs whats the deal |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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I'm from northwestern Wi. We have a diesel class 1800-1900 pds 26 inch tires 4 cylinder there's only 2 of us right now I run a cummins 4bt the other one runs a Isuzu 2.2 that turns 6500rpm. Are ground speed 25-30mph depending on the track. I do run with 2 other clubs in the area I run expadition and I put 31s on I have hooked to a ntpa mini rod sled and did just fine.the biggest problem the class has is expense that's why we have a tire limit to try and control the cost to build one turn key will cost around 15 thousand plus . I have driven my brothers 4.1 limited pro and my mini version is not far off from the rush you get with a whole lot less in expense. My 10 yr old son drove it this past season and won the points in the 1800 and 1900 pd class. The main club we run with has 13 events during the summer the only changes I would possibly change would up the weight class to 1950 to 2000 and run 31 |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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LEWIS
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you have a sharp tractor I talked to you in Bowling green ky in areas that has the many rod classes it could make a go of it i would say the pluss on the end of that 15 was a huge one But i feel your engine in a 4500 pound tractor would be a susses every where 250 cube diesel 4cyl only and you could add in a 200 cube 3cyl alcohol just my opinion |
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Re: Pulling needs this class
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,140 |
I thought you had plenty of TDIs on surplus at the moment? 
It's correct these tractors cannot pull a "mini rod" sled. And they don't have to. They are considered garden tractors here and are in the same "show" and on the same sled as the 1100 lbs stock tractors. I think if we had to do the rules over, we'd lower the hitch on them some, so they keep the nose down and have even less weight transfer. Anyhow: The other classes in that series: 500 kg (1100 lbs) stock: [youtu.be] 500 kg ( 1100 lbs) mod: [youtu.be] 600 kg ( 1320 lbs ) mod: [youtu.be] Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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My Thoughts
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Been pulling for 50 years. I've pulled many different size and classes of tractors. Unfortunatally there isn't any cheap classes in tractor pulling. Over my life time of pulling every class I pulled in started out on a budget, but always turned into expensive. This is due to a persons desire to win and modern technology. My best advice to someone wanting to tractor pull is build what you can afford. Then keep inproving as you can afford it, and by all means enjoy what you are doing. Hopefully you will meet great people and become friends ! Enjoy the Sport of Pulling! |
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Re: My Thoughts
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 243 |
Here's an idea along the lines of this one. Support Garden Tractor Pulling! You can build a competitive tractor for less than you could build one of these diesel tractors, and get the same or similar adrenaline rush. There's nothing like screaming a Pro-V Twin to 12,000 RPMs and then taking off down the track at 17-18mph a foot off the ground |
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