DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 05:25AM
It’s time for the Farm Show to revisit the exhaust pipe dimensions for the Diesel Superstock tractors. I’m not 100% certain but I think the spoke pipe dimensions need to be updated/increased. The amount of air these guys are moving is amazing and they are trying to force that air through a long pipe with either a 90 degree bend (terrible for flow) or two 45 degree bends (a little better for flow, but still pretty bad) and also with a diameter much smaller than their combined exhaust housings.

I have no way of knowing but I think the added back pressure was a detriment many of the diesel guys that pulled this past week (it was possibly the reason that the Triple Bypass tractor didn't seem to spool up like normal, and it might be why Mike Beck's motor never sounded like it normally does). That back pressure on the exhaust side of the exhaust wheel has the potential to limit turbine shaft speed and to not let the chargers spool up like they do outdoors.

I don’t know what a new standard should be, but I don’t think the current standard is large enough for many of the setups that are currently running in the DSS class. There’s plenty of room between the smoke pipe and smoke tube on the sled so an increase in diameter wouldn’t be an issue on the sled side of things. Adding two or three inches in diameter might make a big difference from a performance standpoint. Possible allowing two bigger pipes side by side might also be a workable solution (these elite guys go straight so pipe width isn't as much of an issue).

I feel that this is something that needs to be addressed before the Superstock combo class runs again next year. Your thoughts?


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 06:06AM
Has this been a problem in the past with the DSS at Louisville or is it just an issue now because a Diesel didn't win?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 06:27AM
Quote
Grubby
Has this been a problem in the past with the DSS at Louisville or is it just an issue now because a Diesel didn't win?

Are you under the assumption that the diesel super stocks have never increased their power output since the inception of the class?


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 07:48AM
Quote
John Murray

Has this been a problem in the past with the DSS at Louisville or is it just an issue now because a Diesel didn't win?

Are you under the assumption that the diesel super stocks have never increased their power output since the inception of the class?

Pretty sure he is asking why we are just now bringing this up if it has been a problem before.
Was this a problem last year?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 08:13AM
Boxler and Raymond had an issue with the pipe size in the past. They were a different configurations and the other tractors are now catching up.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 08:27AM
It would be interesting to see what size of pipe they use when they go to the dyno. Hmm... I would think it would be tuned somewhat close.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 08:55AM
"PROBLEM" is that the smoke tube failed,watch the video, it shows collapsed smoke tub and soft appearing plastic,very easily seen
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 09:03AM
I forgot to mention that was in reference to what Jake was referring to on changing size. I would bet what was found on dyno runs is probably what came to Louisville with the tractor or tractors ( don't know how many actually dyno ) I believe Blagraves run a single exhaust pipe during the summer so it can't make as much of a difference as one would think atleast for now.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 10:06AM
The smoke tube breaking is a completely different issue, it happens and they did a great job fixing it. Hats off to the guys who busted their butts getting it replaced so quick.

As for why talk about this now... or was this a problem last year... or any other comment of the sort. I don't know if it was a problem last year. Maybe, maybe it's had an impact of performance for a year or two. THere's no real way to know with 100% certainty. Maybe it wasn't a problem this year. Maybe it won't be a problem next year. But it will be a problem. Soon or later it will be a problem. Personally I think it might be having an impact right now (that's why I brought it up now!). I don't know how much of an impact but I think it's having some impact. Should we wait until everyone chokes out and nobody makes a pass? Should we address it after all the diesel tractors can't get off the line? Should we bury our heads in the sand and pretent that these diesel guys haven't made an amazing about of progress in the past few years?

As for Blagrave's single pipe. Yes they run a single pipe in the summer, if you look at the indoor pipe they run, it actually reduces diameter approximately 2' out of the hood and then stays that smaller diameter all the way back to the sled. To repeat, their winter pipe reduces right where their summer pipe ends. That's significant. If you've ever studied or modeled fluid dynamics (yes air/exhaust gas is actually a fluid) then you'd know that there is a significant amount of restriction for elbows as well as pipe length. I think it would be interesting to put a pressure probe on their outdoor pipe as well as their indoor pipe and see what the difference was. I'm guessing it would be fairly significant.

As was mentioned before, Hans Boxler and John Raymond have both requested an increase of pipe diameter in the past because their setups required a high volume of air at a slightly lower pressure. That smaller pipe diameter restriction doesn't play nicely with those types of setups. I'm guessing that the small exhaust hinders most of the modern big 3-turbo setups quite a bit. I guess that proves right there that this has been an issue in the past already.

Times have changed and continue to change and the indoor pipe specs haven't keep pace with the technology in the class. Whether the two fuels run together or separate this is something that needs to be addressed either now or in the near future. My question would be why wait?


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 07:28PM
( Watchers) you are simply an Idiot. All the guy is saying
is he wants no restrictions, if the diesels are going to run with the
Alcohol tractors it needs to be fair there is no exhaust restrictions
to the alcohols and needs to be the same for the diesels. Looks
like the alcohol tractors are going to have there hands full
With the diesels this summer.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 08:58AM
I agree Massive volume of air out the stack. Assuming that there are big pumping losses with the corrigations in the tube and the bends, Maybe twice the size would be a good place to start?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 02:47PM
They had problems also just not as bad. Reason being they are probably not as large on exhaust side. It’s clear the rule needs addressed or top runners will not show up and your mix class will be a one and done.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 10:50AM
Yes with Current Turbos most are running. If they are running
  • two 5.25" exhaust wheels = an area of 173.18
  • two 5.5" exhaust would have a area of 190.066
  • two 6" exhaust would have a area of 226.194
The 7" pipe has a area of 153.938

A 8" pipe would give you a area of 201.061
A 9" pipe would give a area of 254.469

So yes a 9-10 pipe would be Nice and allow for future growth. So yes they are running with a limiter you might say. Yes this should be addressed everyone wants a mixed class but everyone complains when they try to make it Fair Play.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 11:05AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 10:59AM
I can't say for certain but I'm thinking that's why Triple Bypass would not come to life.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 12:17PM
I believe the DSS tractors had a limit imposed on pipe diameter at some point in the last 5 years at NFMS. It would seem that it is a problem, yes.

CP
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 12:57PM
I think colin will comment shortly but yes it was proved today to be a problem. We got the sled out and made a couple runs with and without the indoor pipe on. It ran the same as it did before with the outside pipes on and with just changing to the indoor pipe it would not get out of its own way the same as Friday.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 02:20PM
I do believe that they will have to learn to build there tractor to run bye an actual rule, not just what ever they want to do or results like we just heard about will happen. It looks like the other diesels did just fine.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 02:41PM
First off, I am no way complaining or whining about what happened to my tractor on Friday night. There’s high’s and low’s in tractor pulling and I can honestly say Friday night was about the lowest low I’ve ever been in my life. However, you have to pick your head up and move on and learn from the situation and try to make it a good situation.

Sunday morning I called my good buddy Kevin Campbell and asked him if we could make a couple test passes at his shop on Monday to figure out what happened to our tractor. Without hesitation he said absolutely. We started around 2 o’clock today, we unloaded the tractor, Put the smoke tube on and left everything exactly the way it was for Louisville. The tractor performed exactly as it did Friday night. For our next run the only thing we changed was removing the smoke tube and installing our 6 inch pipes we run all summer long. The tractor ran perfectly. Boost, EGT’s, Drive pressure everything was back to almost exactly how it was at Waynesburg. Now, I’m not sure how you could do a better test than that. I think we should definitely look into making some changes to the smoke tube’s on these tractors. In 1997 my father won the Thursday night session with a 5 inch smoke tube with the tractor making maybe 2200hp? Today we’re making over 5,000 hp and we’re gonna try to fit that through one 6 inch pipe? I plan on reaching out to the right people and start stating my case to potential make some changes to the smoke tube specifications.


Once again. I am not bellyaching because our tractor WAS affected by the smoke tube. This all part of the journey off being better today than you we’re yesterday. My father and I love the the chase of always making our program better and this is just part of of that process


I would also like to congratulate John Strickland, Brent Payne and the whole GALOT team on a awesome weekend. I can’t wait to run with you guys this summer.


Also I would like to tip my cap to Mike Whitt and the Kentucky State Fairboard for running another flawless show.


- Colin Ross



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 02:42PM by TripleBypass.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 07:01PM
Thanks for the info on what was wrong with your tractor, but you are correct it is a part of learning. We all learned that when you go play in someone else’s sand box we play bye there rules or stay home. Instead of calling and complaining to nfms about why your tractor would not run why don’t you change your tractor to work with the smoke tube rule that is already in place. Maybe do like other diesels do before going to an indoor hook, dyno your motor with exhaust hook directly to your turbos. There are 2 common types of exhaust hook ups for dynos. You can have a big exhaust fan above sucking out or pipes connecting directly to your turbos. I guess you need to change your dynoing technique before your next indoor hook. And you must dyno or you would have no idea that you are at 5000hp. It’s very irritating to even mention or cry about why your tractor did not run. How many superfarms have been to nfms over the years and had to change there setups to no coolers to be able perform at a amazing event like that. I have never heard one of them get on a public forum and say they are contacting the board because there tractor didn’t perform like it did all summer with the intercooler on. These are pullers that were invited there or won there pionts in there regions and had to change there set ups to pull there. It May be to the point for all diesel supers that they need two setups A outdoor setup and A indoor set up.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 07:30PM
Watchers you are an idiot. I’d say you need to stick what you know
( nothing ).
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 11:59PM
By reading Colin's post it sure sounds like hes concerned about the progression of the sport.theres also no sense in denying the engine to perform at a lower torque per rpm,that's just not gonna happen.what do you suggest the diesels do to reduce the exhaust restriction and stay within the pipe size rule ??
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 11:43PM
Great answer Colin. We know how strong the Triple Bypass tractor is and we know the Ross team has extreme dedication to getting better. They will be tough to run against at any time. Looking forward to running against them! Our Galot Motorsports team cannot get better without being challenged. The classes on both nights were as tough of competition as it gets. What all the people watching have to understand is this... if all 12 tractors have the exact same 5000 to 5500 horsepower you still need to make good runs.

There is more to our sport than just horsepower. Durability, sharp tires, good balance, driving, etc... all play just as much into a teams successes. The Blagrave team is also very, very strong. Lock n Load, Rooster, Hunt, and Beck also are more than capable of winning (We do watch the diesel class because we enjoy itWinking. Both nights we felt it was anyone's game to win. We needed to make the best run possible to win. Not spend more money, not make more power. Our Galot Motorsports team knows our equipment well. As for those of you that think alcohol is easier to run, well, you better think again. It still takes hours of work each night.

The alcohol/diesel rivalry does not have the same internal negativity (in my opinion) as it did back in the 90's. I was there, but couldn't even reach the peddles! We honestly had a great time before the pull catching up with the other side. Hopefully they felt the same way. Both fuels have some really good teams and we enjoy pulling with all of them.

For the future, lets have some good, open-minded, and educated discussions about this. And please do not assume to know it all. Ask any one of us on both sides a realistic question and I guarantee you will get an honest answer. But put your "real name" with the question.

Everyone is invited to Galot Motorsports Park on May 29th and 30th to see how it works outside. NO INDOOR PIPE REQUIRED!!! No Bull, just good pulling. Please come and support both fuels efforts into Making Super Stock Pulling Great Again!

Brent Payne
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 17, 2020 11:55PM
It's an easy fix,...just run 3LM's on top and a TO4 on the bottom,....Russel won the Farm Show in 93' with that setupGrinning
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 01:21AM
Simple solution....make the alky's run with a smoke tube as well.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 01:55AM
That's been debated for ages but the majority still feel it's too big of a risk to run the alcohols hooked to the tube for fear of their being an explosion if it doesn't get the exhaust out good. No one is willing to even try because if it does happen you risk potential major damage to the smoke machine and who knows what else. But also I wonder since the alcohols don't run near as much boost as the diesels if it would even matter. They're not trying to move as much air as them so the smoke pipe wouldn't have as much of an effect.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:01AM
Didn't think about that...thanks. What if they ran an equivalent smoke tube and did not run the exhaust into the smoke machine?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2020 02:05AM by RManess.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:11AM
AND THE PROBLEM WITH A BIGGER SMOKE TUBE ON THE TRACTOR ---- ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:38AM
Quote
?????????
AND THE PROBLEM WITH A BIGGER SMOKE TUBE ON THE TRACTOR ---- ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
I was just offering a solution that met the NFMS rules (same smoke tube for all classes) and put both Alky / Diesels equal. I'm just a fan that enjoyed the combined class last weekend and would like to see it next year.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:20AM
Quote
gmshiperformance@gmail.com
Great answer Colin. We know how strong the Triple Bypass tractor is and we know the Ross team has extreme dedication to getting better. They will be tough to run against at any time. Looking forward to running against them! Our Galot Motorsports team cannot get better without being challenged. The classes on both nights were as tough of competition as it gets. What all the people watching have to understand is this... if all 12 tractors have the exact same 5000 to 5500 horsepower you still need to make good runs.

There is more to our sport than just horsepower. Durability, sharp tires, good balance, driving, etc... all play just as much into a teams successes. The Blagrave team is also very, very strong. Lock n Load, Rooster, Hunt, and Beck also are more than capable of winning (We do watch the diesel class because we enjoy itWinking. Both nights we felt it was anyone's game to win. We needed to make the best run possible to win. Not spend more money, not make more power. Our Galot Motorsports team knows our equipment well. As for those of you that think alcohol is easier to run, well, you better think again. It still takes hours of work each night.

The alcohol/diesel rivalry does not have the same internal negativity (in my opinion) as it did back in the 90's. I was there, but couldn't even reach the peddles! We honestly had a great time before the pull catching up with the other side. Hopefully they felt the same way. Both fuels have some really good teams and we enjoy pulling with all of them.

For the future, lets have some good, open-minded, and educated discussions about this. And please do not assume to know it all. Ask any one of us on both sides a realistic question and I guarantee you will get an honest answer. But put your "real name" with the question.

Everyone is invited to Galot Motorsports Park on May 29th and 30th to see how it works outside. NO INDOOR PIPE REQUIRED!!! No Bull, just good pulling. Please come and support both fuels efforts into Making Super Stock Pulling Great Again!

Brent Payne

Man I hope I read that wrong.
Colin Ross absolutely dominated 2019 NTPA GN.
Is he really that much better driver than Kent?
Are you willing to give up 1500 HP and show Kent how its done?
If all 12 tractors had the same HP there would be no conversation,its the extra 1500 HP and the cost involved to get there that is in question.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:54AM
HP Counts....read this again...he did not say that HP does not matter, he said there is a lot more variables than just horse power.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 03:51AM
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Dana Strickland
HP Counts....read this again...he did not say that HP does not matter, he said there is a lot more variables than just horse power.

And I said give up 1500 HP and show us.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 04:30AM
Quote
HP Counts

HP Counts....read this again...he did not say that HP does not matter, he said there is a lot more variables than just horse power.

And I said give up 1500 HP and show us.

You're Bernie voter aren't ya?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 04:59AM
Good grief.... can't please everyone I guess. But I can post my real name...

Brent Payne
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 06:00AM
Quote
gmshiperformance@gmail.com
Good grief.... can't please everyone I guess. But I can post my real name...

Brent Payne

Like I said, I hope I misunderstood.
It looked to me like you called out every top diesel and said its not about HP its your driving and setup that's the problem.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 06:07AM
You are dead set on making it something that it's not. I realize that you have an agenda but don't try and mischaracterize the post that don't work for you.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 09:22AM
I asked the why not question before, no one answered, no viable reason I suspect.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 10:12AM
Quote
HP Counts

Good grief.... can't please everyone I guess. But I can post my real name...

Brent Payne

Like I said, I hope I misunderstood.
It looked to me like you called out every top diesel and said its not about HP its your driving and setup that's the problem.

Hope no more, you for sure misunderstood a pretty clear statement. Many times people read what they want it to say not what it actually says. This appears to be the case here.
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Wow February 18, 2020 06:43AM
It's laughable how out of context peoples comments can be taken on here. If I read this correctly, Brent (and Jordan,Misty, and Dana for that matter) have been saying all along that they will run with the diesels and have acknowledged many times that the diesels can and have in fact beat them on occasion. Seems to me like they welcome the challenge and are by no means saying it's a given that the alky's have any kind advantage in this class. In fact they are promoting the class to run more and see how it goes if for nothing else the sake of the class. Colin's post above clearly shows that the smoke tube makes a difference and he would like to PROGRESS the sport and rules to make the class more even and put on an even better show for the fans during INDOOR shows. I for one hope they change it and change it yesterday so we will be ready to see these guys go at it again next year at NFMS. Smoke tube technology (yes that means design, material, and size) needs to be updated like the tractors in the class have. Didn't see anywhere in his Colin's post where he said he wasn't gonna hook with the alky's anymore if no changes were made. He simply wants to be able to run his best setup against EVERYONE IN THE CLASS. I'm sure they would love to beat any tractor in the class, not just an alky.A comment above mentioned detuning his tractor to run at NFMS...I have no words for that...absolutley ridiculous. If you take this mixed class to the outdoors and let em go head to head and hash it out there will be diesels win one weekend and alky's the next. Anyone that thinks they "know" otherwise has never been in a competitive super stock class with both fuels running. Brent's comments about setup are spot on. It's an any given weekend class. And this has been proven in the big super class when Ross's took the win in Waynesburg. And for anyone that says maintenance this and that about the diesels vs the alky's....everyone knows that the diesels are not easy to keep going through a season. I'm a diesel guy and know that first hand. But I highly doubt that any of the alky's just change spark plugs and refuel and then head to the lawn chair with a cold drink. These are full on race tractors that need maintenance just like any diesel. All of the alky guys know the insides of their motors just as well as the diesel guys and probably see them just as much. Every team has the ability to push the motors as hard as they want. I say this very cautiously, but money almost doesn't matter because if a guy has a tractor in this class he has already spent more than 90% of the pullers in the world....diesel or alky. But that puller has made the choice to continue in the class so the money is what it is. Do I think there needs to be more DSS and USS tractors with lower costs to build...Absolutley. But that's another discussion. The show this weekend was as good as it could be for the first go around. Stan was on a hell of a pass and the what if's are what they are. I commend him for rehooking. Diesels really can not take that kind of heat. Was awesome to see the Blagraves step up and take another shot at it. But every single competitor that hooked to the sled in this class should be commended. The fuel rivalry adds a huge shot in the arm to the super stock class and I for one cannot wait until we get to see them go at it again.

Now bring on the haters!!!!
Paul Romack
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Re: Wow February 18, 2020 10:59AM
If yall remember, Travis Schlabach had same problem just a year or 2 ago. I believe that the same thing happened to him on his bone twister tractor as happen to the Ross team. Must be something to it.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 06:40AM
Colin,

Thanks for sharing the info about your testing. I’m not too surprised, it was odd to see your tractor not spool up like it normally does. I know the smoke pipe change has been asked for in the past and denied, but I’m hoping they finally update the spec to met the current technology in the class. Thanks again for sharing your findings with everyone.

For those who think this only affected the Triple Bypass tractor, so they should just change their turbo setup for the NFMS… I’m fairly certain that the current smoke pipe rules had a negative impact on every single diesel tractor in that class. Those five other tractor are running at that same elite level and they move way more air than the current smoke pipe can handle. Yes, they made passes, but was it their “A” game or was it a restricted “B” game? I’m guessing that if you dynoed every one of those tractors with and without the pipe it had some sort of detrimental impact. I think everyone wants to see all these guys run their “A” game.

From a fans point of view I want to see these guys run on their normal setups against each other in Louisville. I don’t want them to down size or have some specific Louisville turbos setup that forces them to run a different gear, different fuel setup, etc… and spend more money for just one event. It’s extremely simple to make a change to the smoke pipe spec for just these six tractors rather than have these six tractors dyno and change their setups just for Louisville. It’s just a pipe and there’s plenty of room to fit a larger pipe in the smoke tube. For those pushing back against this… why? Why not just let them have a bigger pipe?

Here’s an updated list of pipe cross-sectional areas (the numbers in the other post were mistakenly calculated with diameter not radius):


Red is the current pipe spec. Many (most) guys run two 6” pipes in the summer so that should be the minimum area to design a new standard for. I’d future proof it to build in a margin of error. Personally I’d like them to allow two 7” pipes side-by-side or a single 9-10” pipe. Why side-by-side? These guys are the best of the best and they drive straight 99% of the time. A wider pipe shouldn’t be a problem for the smoke tube and it still allows plenty of flexibility for the pipe to go up and down as the front of the tractor lifts. If they stick with a single pipe spec it would probably need to be at least 9” or better yet, 10” to make sure it will not need to be changed for quite a while. For those wondering, the pipe actually needs to be bigger than what these guys run in the summer because of friction losses as the smoke goes through bends and extra lengths of tubing. We need to minimize back pressure on the turbochargers.

The pull committee has been making some excellent decisions lately and I’m sure they will take a serious look at this and make the appropriate changes (hopefully before next year). Mike Whitt, Gayle Mefford, and Dan Cristiani have done a tremendous job fleshing the show up and adding some real fan interest. I agree with Brent Payne, it was anyone's class to win. The combo class this year was the most exciting things to happen in either of these two classes in a very long time. When the lead traded back and forth between alcohol, then diesel, then back to alcohol on Friday night it was just awesome. Our little media area down near the trackside was on the edges of our seats with no idea who was going to move the leaders cone next. It was just a great show! I'm pretty certain the committee will do their absolute best to make sure that the guys in this class can run on as level a playing field as possible.

Again, for those pushing back against this… why? Why not just let them have a bigger pipe?


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.



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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 12:11PM
Quote
Jake Morgan
Colin,

Thanks for sharing the info about your testing. I’m not too surprised, it was odd to see your tractor not spool up like it normally does. I know the smoke pipe change has been asked for in the past and denied, but I’m hoping they finally update the spec to met the current technology in the class. Thanks again for sharing your findings with everyone.

For those who think this only affected the Triple Bypass tractor, so they should just change their turbo setup for the NFMS… I’m fairly certain that the current smoke pipe rules had a negative impact on every single diesel tractor in that class. Those five other tractor are running at that same elite level and they move way more air than the current smoke pipe can handle. Yes, they made passes, but was it their “A” game or was it a restricted “B” game? I’m guessing that if you dynoed every one of those tractors with and without the pipe it had some sort of detrimental impact. I think everyone wants to see all these guys run their “A” game.

From a fans point of view I want to see these guys run on their normal setups against each other in Louisville. I don’t want them to down size or have some specific Louisville turbos setup that forces them to run a different gear, different fuel setup, etc… and spend more money for just one event. It’s extremely simple to make a change to the smoke pipe spec for just these six tractors rather than have these six tractors dyno and change their setups just for Louisville. It’s just a pipe and there’s plenty of room to fit a larger pipe in the smoke tube. For those pushing back against this… why? Why not just let them have a bigger pipe?

Here’s an updated list of pipe cross-sectional areas (the numbers in the other post were mistakenly calculated with diameter not radius):


Red is the current pipe spec. Many (most) guys run two 6” pipes in the summer so that should be the minimum area to design a new standard for. I’d future proof it to build in a margin of error. Personally I’d like them to allow two 7” pipes side-by-side or a single 9-10” pipe. Why side-by-side? These guys are the best of the best and they drive straight 99% of the time. A wider pipe shouldn’t be a problem for the smoke tube and it still allows plenty of flexibility for the pipe to go up and down as the front of the tractor lifts. If they stick with a single pipe spec it would probably need to be at least 9” or better yet, 10” to make sure it will not need to be changed for quite a while. For those wondering, the pipe actually needs to be bigger than what these guys run in the summer because of friction losses as the smoke goes through bends and extra lengths of tubing. We need to minimize back pressure on the turbochargers.

The pull committee has been making some excellent decisions lately and I’m sure they will take a serious look at this and make the appropriate changes (hopefully before next year). Mike Whitt, Gayle Mefford, and Dan Cristiani have done a tremendous job fleshing the show up and adding some real fan interest. I agree with Brent Payne, it was anyone's class to win. The combo class this year was the most exciting things to happen in either of these two classes in a very long time. When the lead traded back and forth between alcohol, then diesel, then back to alcohol on Friday night it was just awesome. Our little media area down near the trackside was on the edges of our seats with no idea who was going to move the leaders cone next. It was just a great show! I'm pretty certain the committee will do their absolute best to make sure that the guys in this class can run on as level a playing field as possible.

Again, for those pushing back against this… why? Why not just let them have a bigger pipe?

I don't think anybody is pushing back against it.
I brought it up here on this forum that the smoke tube was a problem for the diesels that the Akys didnt have to deal with and got shot down for even mentioning it.
Why is it a problem now?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 12:30PM
Maybe if you'd used your real name you'd have had some credibility.

........ya that's right. I didn't use mine here either.

see how that works?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 12:54PM
Quote
here's your sign
Maybe if you'd used your real name you'd have had some credibility.

........ya that's right. I didn't use mine here either.

see how that works?

You are right I am stupid,I will let it go.
My name would definitely not give me any more credibility.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 01:13PM
Quote
HP Counts

Maybe if you'd used your real name you'd have had some credibility.

........ya that's right. I didn't use mine here either.

see how that works?

You are right I am stupid,I will let it go.
My name would definitely not give me any more credibility.
We accept your decision to let it go. Especially since your name must not have any credibility associated with it according to your own words. Sounds like a certain news channel to me?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 02:51PM
Just a thought wouldn’t a bigger pipe for the tractors help the smoke machine an the hose Would it slow the air down to make it easier on the smoke machine?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 18, 2020 12:54PM
I don't remember the post. When did you post it and under what name? As for why it's an issue now... well we have actual confirmation that the smoke pipe was a problem. Confirmation from a puller in the class. This is the first time I know of where anyone actually confirmed that suspicion.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 19, 2020 02:11AM
If side to side is an issue, stack them with a miter cut back into the smoke machine...

More than one way to do this.

CP
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 20, 2020 12:32AM
CPR, I'm confused? How does stacking 2 round pipes take up any less space than placing them side by side going into the same round smoke tube?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 20, 2020 04:30AM
He is referring to the drivers visibility two pipes stacked inline is no more in the way than a single pipe.
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 20, 2020 06:42AM
anyone know why a rules committee would be against a larger pipe? One large is better that two smaller?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 01:29AM
That and what I gather is SXS is a concern if the tractor gets out of shape to the side, they can contact the tube. Stacked keeps them more on center and away from the sides of the hose should the tractor swing off to one side.

CP
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 01:47AM
all of them raise up, so hitting bottom of tube will surely happen, not all move sideways, - a 9 or ten inch would solve both types of movement problems, stays in the middle more, why will no one answer why the rules committee is against bigger pipe?
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 03:01AM
Just put a bigger intake on the hose maybe funnel shaped problem solved
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 05:25AM
Your a genius gump bbailey! Lol
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 05:59AM
Yes sir!
Got me a Snapper pulling tractor too!
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Re: DSS exhaust pipe size at the NFMS February 21, 2020 06:28AM
Right on!!
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