02:33:12pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I have been thinking about the number 1 problem in pulling. I understand that national and state/club may, and will probably have different answers. What I see as, maybe the number 1 thing is the lack of vision, the lack of national organizations willing to try something different. To start making rules that benefit the class and the sport and stop letting the few make rules for the many. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Thoughts
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Mr. Morgan
Where would you like to start with the many issues that plague the world of pulling ?? Here is my list. 1. A diluted product. Way to many classes. Way to many organizations. Way to many pulls 2. Lack of integrate from the National Organizations from policing there product and rules 3. As you said " A lack of vision and what needs to change or be changed to improve the show for the fan and looking after the puller as well 4. Money is a problem. I do not believe pullers are asking for million dollars purses. What they want is the ability to cover their costs. Not saying cover the expense of the build but to at least cover the cost for just getting to and from a pull. Take NTPA Region 2 which covers a fair amount of area, even if you win it does not cover the cost for that 1 pull. Between fuel to get there, needs for your vehicle for that pull, food etc. 5. As the old saying goes " The fox guarding the hen house " Pullers need to pull. They are to bias in there desires. 6. Trust in the organizations. The list can go on. So if someone or some organization can accomplish these things, pulling will be better. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Phil G
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In my club the president writes rules that help his class and that's the class he sells to the fair boards |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Georgee
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I have seen the same thing, self promotion,in fact I won a pull and was given 12 feet less on score card, -- so yes what, promoters tractor could win.They told me to talk to Him, being the Pull director, I did not know He owned the winning tractor till later, how do you think my protest went? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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As far as many classes: In its 50 year history NTPA has brought forward many classes Regional and National Tour. Promoters have choices, NTPA puts out a list of sanctioned events. Many times classes rise to a national level that probably should have found their level. A good national tour needs 15-18 events to provide enough opportunities to off set the cost of pulling on a touring level. So, more events more money. Promoter usually pays the purse, that's a big commitment and having the right classes for your event makes money or cuts back. Some would argue less pulls more money, but look at the events that have been around for 30 plus years. They make money or they would stand the test of time.
2- Don't know what that means. More tech officials? Theirs a cost AND its not like everyone clammers for the job. 3-The fan experience is key and the "tighten up" of pulls needs to be addressed. Again, some classes make for quicker shows. Start on time, have meaningful tribute show oepning or build the excitement of the first pull. Pull starts at 8, fire em up. Pyro and lights shows are great indoors and make a world of difference but outside its just expense. Two track events should be firing pullers down range at a good flow, take an intermission, give away some cool stuff and be ready to fire up the next pair and get the show done. 3 hours max...need more show--do like the rodeo, let arena clear and then bring on the pulling classes that are more local or regional. 4- its always about the cash. Sponsorship of each division or class would add cash. Charging promoters more, will kill the sport. Enhancing the VIP seating and increases promoter gate, but the pullers shouldn't look for that money. Pullers should help the association with sponsor leads, NAMES, phone numbers, introductions. New sponsors ANGRY FARMER should be patronized by pullers and their friends and fans. --Drop me an email with your suggestions. NASCAR would have folded without Junior Johnson and Budweiser. Travel expense is a part of the game. 5-Pullers pull, do your best, cash your check, collect your trophy and move on. Build a competition vehicle to the rule book specs....not lobby for another class. 6-NTPA staff does a great job, there are not enough of them. The association is solid and strong and provides it's membership with a place to play. Not a member, then you really have no say. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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Doc you say " not a member, then you have no say", why the hell would anyone want to join, you never one time said increase puller payback, or anything for the puller, its like in trucking -- happy driver will do a much better job than an unhappy driver--- think about it, take care of your pullers and you'll have way more participants , pulling "and the the world for that matter" would be so much better if we'd go back to the roots !!!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 06/25/2008 Posts: 66 |
Maybe he means all the internet "experts" always complaining about so much being wrong with pulling? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Some answers to questions:
?: If your a member of NTPA than you get to have input on the association, if you are not a member you don't. You would want to join NTPA because of solid and stable organization that is the leader in the sport. Additionally, if more money comes into the sport, it's past along to the puller. That's the way NTPA has always don't it. OLD TECH OFFICIAL: Pennzoil sponsorship is a good example, pulling team based, business to business tie in with O'Reilly Auto Parts and the benefits are directed at the puller. Not sure of screw up and WPI leader since program remains in place. Wrangler Jeans, great example of puller "No ones gonna tell me what to wear" mentality is what lost the sponsorship. Some pullers do a great job at advancing the sport, others not so much. NTPA reach to fairs and expo, NFMS, and additional events is a strong plus. PPL and NTPA follow two basic models, however, the results are pretty much the same: money to the competitors. Not sure why Doug Lively no longer pulls and Alliance Tire tried the sport for a number of years and as many corporations they are going a different direction. Since I know people at Alliance, it was not an NTPA or Lively fauly--they tried to increase business and established business contacts in AG, that was their mission. Business changes, R&L Carriers had a great run with NTPA, so did PABST, MONSANTO, KENDALL OIL, United States Tobacco, Chevrolet, etc. My two pennys: I don't believe that sponsors bow out for liability issues. If that was the case the sport and NASCAR would have ended years ago. At an NTPA Sanctioned indoor pull in Salisbury, MD a driveshaft hit the roof and landed in the crowd, no on injured. NTPA, K&K Insurance, SFI, have made a good protective shield for all who participate. Won't be surprised if a lawsuit DID come up from this past Louisville Indoor show. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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Doc you say thats the way NTPA has always done it an they are a strong an stable organization, yet NTPA is dieing a slow death, puller are going to PPL for a reason, if i was a puller on that level theres no question where id go, id follow along with the Boyds, Longs, Mastersons, Simons,Sheltons, Lustiks, Blackburns,Russell---- do i need to keep going on all the past ntpa diehards thats left and went to PPL ? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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My list:
- National events are too heavily centered around the midwest. The closest event to Atlanta in Knoxville, it only has 3 classes and is part of the fair. The closest dedicated event is 3.5-4 hours away. - Regional events are highly variable and therefore rarely worth attending, especially when you have to drive over 2 hours to get to one. I don't mind going to regional events if they are close, but they aren't. - Nonuniform rule set between NTPA and PPL. - Classes get spread too thin sometimes making for a short show. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Not sure what you mean by " Nonuniform rules"? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Old Tech Official
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Doc, I don't have a marketing degree nor do I own a marketing or media company like yourself.
Why would a puller give NTPA a sponsor lead? Is this because NTPA can't get or even keep a sponsor of it's own. Heck, the leader of WPI at the the time about screwed up the deal with Shell/Pennzoil. Not to mention that they did mess up the deal with Wrangler Jeans. So rather than burn a bridge with a sponsor, the puller had better keep their sponsor pretty damn close to themselves. After all the puller does a better job of promoting the sport than NTPA does. And I'm no faithful follower to PPL but at least PPL leads sponsors to their pullers. Just look at their modified class. Most of their regular pullers have series associate sponsors on them. Now those sponsors may not be very big. At least giving back. When was the last time that NTPA did that? Oh wait Doug Lively did get a small check from Alliance tires. But now both he and Alliance are out of the sport. So I guess that doesn't exactly count for 2020 does it. If being part of NTPA was such a no-brainer, Alliance would have stuck around. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/06/2016 Posts: 126 |
Would this be a good time to ask about what happened to R&L and Larry Robert with NTPA? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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JMO
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Doc makes excuses,no solutions.
NTPA been around 50+ yrs and still makes excuses why they don't pay puller what others are. Pullers are the show,not NTPA/WPI,Richwine,Randall any other blow hard clown that thinks they know everything. Line their own pockets and piss on the Pullers...........Does Toby Keith have to pay to put on a concert? Do prof athletes pay to play? Why do Pullers have to pay to pull ? Socialism? Is Bernie Sanders involved.................... |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 03/12/2019 Posts: 51 |
I think he means the rules vary by organization, i.e Super Farm Coolers, I think Pro Stock has a variance too.
Not impossible to work around, but adds a step to running where a guy wants. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2020 12:17AM by kevehr4020. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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ME
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Pullers themselves... Including ME.... Just like farmers we are our own worst enemies. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LLSS FAN
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TO ME You are 110% correct in your statement |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Often Wondered
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Often wondered what the out come would have been if Pullers would have agreed to smaller limits on Cubic Inch and Turbos ? I could never under stand why nobody wanted to decubed those Big Cubic Inch engines? I have decubed several engines in the past with great results. LOL, I must have gotten Lucky!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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TOP GUN
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bbailey, you pretty much said it all. I know watching some youtube videos of the 2020 NFMS, a lot of the time the crowd is on their phone, not watching. But this is the way it is and we need to keep this going as long as possible, pulling. Darin |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Its not too hard to figure out here, we just need to let them put a pull on without anyone there to pull. Then maybe the purse would go up!!!!!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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My 2 pennys
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Couple of things.
1. Yes it's nice to have a nice payout at a pull, however there is no way to ever recover the costs associated with this sport by what we win in payouts. If that's the only reason you are pulling just to get a payout, you are gonna go broker than you already are from all the money you spent getting to the pull with your expensive ride. 2. Sponsors tend to shy away from the sport especially after being educated about the nature of the sport and how dangerous it really is. Take the driveshaft incident at Louisville this year. Thank God above no one was killed. It's not because of NTPA or any other organization why sponsors drop off, it's a liability thing. If someone gets seriously injured or even worse, killed. The Lawsuits ensuing would name any and everyone associated with the event and beyond, INCLUDING SPONSORS! That's why we all need to take every precaution at our disposal to prevent such a disastrous event from happening. 3. If pullers dont show up to pull, they won't raise the purse, they will cancel the event and or class that doesn't show. If you think they will raise the purse, you are sadly mistaken. I've seen classes and pulls done away with just because of low numbers of competitors. If you are one who is pulling for money and that's your only concern, you shouldn't be pulling to start with. It's a sport you enjoy and are Blessed to be able to participate in with family and friends. Its certainly not a profitable business or adventure. 4. I find it hard to believe that. Mark Zuckerberg is checking out this site. However if he is, we have a bigger fan base, than I ever imagined! Lol That's all I have to say. FG |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LEWIS
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You may get a little more money at a Nat event but at county fairs you can forget it thats were 80 percent of pulling is done and is only used to fill a night of a seven day scedule start staying at home and its over. |
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message boards
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Facts
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Message boards are what’s wrong with pulling. A bunch of opinionated people that don’t know that they just don’t know. |
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Re: message boards
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why are you here?
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then go away you moron nobody made you come here. if its so bad why are you reading and responding to comments here. youre obviously an opinionated person who is just to dumb to know how dumb your comments make you look. nice job. best to leave the commenting to the adults in the room. |
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Re: message boards
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Agreed
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I agree, it is truly hard to " know what they just dont know" I believe that is one of the dumbest quotes that I have ever seen! How can anyone know something that they just dont know? That's funny right there, I don't care who you are! Lol |
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Re: message boards
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Facts
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Just don’t know that they don’t know
Means everyone has an opinion. Most, judged by their opinions have no understanding of what they’re talking about. They get on these message boards full of pi$$ and vinegar but have little invested in the sport (most, not all, before anyone goes getting a chapped arse). We have photographers and social media gurus thinking they can solve the pulling worlds problems. They think they know but they don’t. They just don’t know that they don’t know. They haven’t been in the dog fight meetings where decisions were made. For instance: Doc would have you believe that WPI was set up to be the business management arm of WPI. Well that’s not the whole story. WPI was set up to bail NTPA out of debt a second time. There was one before that, that debentures were sold and the pullers saved the day. Anyways, yes WPI saved the day, but they were not designed to exist forever. There were at one time two sets of financials. NTPA and WPI. NTPA was working it’s way out of debt and was supposed to become their own entity again. Then in 2005, NTPA’s president Loy Thomas signed letters of perpetuity without the consent of the member states. It was questioned highly by the NTPA reps from Ohio, Mike Laribee and Ron Barga. It was at that point NTPA really existed in name only. It was also at that same meeting DPS informed the pullers that any decision that was considered “financial” was WPI’s decision and the NTPA board had no more say. Why do you think all these classes have been added the past 16 years? It’s a revenue maker. That’s how they make their money along with entry fees, sanctioning fees and entry fees. More classes=more revenue. The problem is more classes means less money for points per class. Some will argue that sponsorship has increased/decreased, either way the pot is getting dispersed to more making it feel like the payouts are less. Kinda like class action law suits, more hands in the pot, less the pay day is. Unless you’re involved you wouldn’t know anything I just explained. You just don’t know that you don’t know. A lot of opinions by and large are based on a lack of facts, involvement and understanding. Want to fix pulling: Get rid of the current NTPA board. Their go along to get along mentality sucks. Just because it’s been done that way for 50 years doesn’t mean it’s going to work now. You need new blood on there and if any of them were worth their salt they would step aside. Richwine, if you’ve spent any time around him “it’s just Dave’s world and he lets me walk in it”. Well it’s not Dave’s world anymore so let’s rock the pulling world. NTPA should act more as a players association. Unify the rules between NTPA, PPL and Outlaws. Make your national shoes special. Quality over quantity. The sport is diluted. Between brush pulling, mom and pop organizations, state orgs, and national orgs, a lot of places in the Midwest you can go pulling 7 days a week or go watch one. Have distinct levels, if you want your national shows special the only place you should see the big dogs is at a national show, not at your local brush, state or regional show. As a fan why am I going to go to a national show if I can go to the local show and see some of the same “National guys” Then those national shoes need to be a rock show. Pyro technics for full pulls, music, entertainment. If pulling wants to be successful look at the Professional Bull Riders and copy their playbook! Not enough room here to go into one of their shows, but they’ve taken a rural sport and turned it into a rock show! The announcers, the music, the entertainment, they do it right. Demographics are relatively the same, so the sponsors would be too. Tractor pulling is a boring show. What do I know though, it’s not like I have been involved for most of my life. Some of you though, you just don’t know that you don’t know. |
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Re: message boards
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Thanks for the great post. So many things to think about and I'm not sure if I don't agree with 90% or more of the opinion/information that you are sharing. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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What I See
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I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned yet...From what I'm seeing tractor pulling,drag racing, stock car racing, etc are all starting to suffer from a lack of fans in the stands...Places that once used to be packed have far too many empty seats..Some of the pulls that I watch on TV seem to be in front of half a crowd or much less...The younger generation is now in to social media and is not in to motorsports...The area I pull in has plenty of pullers but half the places we pull at seem to have smaller and smaller crowds every year...If it wasn't for sponsors some pulls would lose money.. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I agree with the last comment. Our fan base is getting smaller and older. Not saying that there's a few younger fans out there. Tractor pulling always brought the farm based fans , because they could relate to a tractor. Well look at the farming industry now , its getting smaller and more efficient. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LSS Fan
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I believe the main problem is that pulling simply cost too much now days. In pulling’s heyday it was pretty much tractors taken off the farm and suped up by the puller utilizing mostly his own ingenuity. Now, in a lot of the classes the engine block is the only part of a tractor left. Billet this and billet that, new turbo every year, new pump every other year, Dyno in between pulls. Pulling will never have the fan base or sponsorship to justify paying purses that can even come close to the cost the puller incurs.
With that being said, I do not believe there is a solution to this problem. It is what it is. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Joey
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Not all new fancy stuff is needed, some old school ideas have merit, old fashioned may be out of sync and style, ----however back in the day we earned the right to win and celebrate victory in a more modest venue, grass roots type still has value and purpose. Sure the computee is great, and also very bad in ways I will not mention. Progress is wonderful, but without memories of how we got here it is a lost cause. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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I dont know.
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For a lot of farms the pulling tractor is the cheapest tractor on the farm. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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billee,
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ya for sure, when pickups cost 80 - 100k, a header is more than 50k and 350k for front wheel assists, crazy and still three $ corn.The dollar is not worth much and I hear tell Fort Knox is empty. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Rules - restrictions and sacrifices need to be made to "reign" in some of the classes. It wont be long and there wont be enough "big" money teams to keep the national level going.
The "Production" factor - In order to get the attention of the younger generation, you have to put on a stage show. I watch some of the videos from across the pond and they really get into it...music, pyrotechnics, announcers to keep the crowd engaged. Open pits are also a part of that...put the kids in the seats...engage with the fans as they walk through. Being "too" busy or think that people will just be in the way are just excuses since the fans are the "customers" for the pulling business! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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billee,
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looks like young fans in Europe are just partying. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Pulling has lost its fan’s ATTENTION
Louisville is a prime example I’ve been going to pulls for 45 yrs and pulling for over 20 years and it’s amazing to set there at Louisville and no one is paying attention to the pull they are on on their phones and it’s all ages and I’m guilty myself Go back to the 90’s and watch the videos and we were all there to see it in person but the crowd was INTO it be it red or green or ford or Chevy we were all up cheering our pullers on hooping and hollering and having a good time especially when the frogs came on and it was that way year round no matter where you were Now everyone just sets there and socializes on their phones most have no idea what class is pulling So I thought about this a lot while I was there and other than the phones having the attention I believe that the pulling has become way to cookie cutter and I’m not degrading anyone because I’d love to have any vehicle that went down the track but it’s become so repetitive that only a die hard fan is paying attention There are no different vehicles anymore like years ago nor characters for drivers and I blame that on the RULES to many rules won’t allow an imagination anymore Just write the big check and go win even if it’s not fun seems like big business anymore As far as pullers interacting with fans that definitely needs help I understand that at times you are busy but when your standing around BSIng and a couple teenage boys come up and are checking out your ride acknowledge them start a conversation make a fan out of them instead of acting like your above them because that was you at one time As far as announcers go they feed off the fans and the fans feed off them so they both need to get excited Go back 25 years and it’s all good. I’m done! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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It would help if the announcers knew a little something about each tractor and driver. Would also be nice if they knew something about the track conditions and tractor pulling in general. Big events should have a man or woman on the ground giving up to date reports on the conditions and the competition.
It would also be cool if promoters would announce or show on the screen how much weight each class is pulling on the sled, then the spectators could have a better appreciation for the differences in the classes when it comes to relative pulling power. The way it is today, it’s just a black box that goes up and down. Put some facts and figures along with the competition and it would make it a whole more interesting and enjoyable. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,140 |
" looks like young fans in Europe are just partying."
Yes - that pays our bills! Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Big Party
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That hits on the #1 problem in pulling. The Spectators don't like tractor pulling. They want background entertainment for their party. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Posts: 513 |
And what is the problem necessarily with that?
It give pullers a spot to go, payouts can go up with full stands, promoters are making money. People goto Bowling Green just for the party in the campground and never leave.. People goto Talledega just for the party and could care less about NASCAR. But those people pay the promoters bills, and the pull gets to go on for another year. Not to mention, I haven't met very many pullers who don't like having a good time.. --- 
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Not narrowed minded
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Those are good points and examples. But why would anyone try to duplicate or replicate that? People can be so short sighted! It amazes me how pullers will do everything they can to gain an advantage or edge to rise to the top of competition but when comes to attendance and fans - same ole’ same ole’. Who cares what many fans are doing? Whether they’re watching your tractor or truck go down the track or not......the point is they are there!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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I wanna see more than half the class actually go do the track. I love pulling, but when half the stufff is a dud, I just don’t wanna spend the time and money anymore. Regional to me is better |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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As a fan from the early 80’s here is my wish list (and I believe pulling is in a death spiral)
Faster pulls. So much down time If you have multiple tracks, figure out how not to block my view with track prep tractors.. pointless if you can’t see the full attempt Have more than half the competitors go do the track Set rules so that the competitors go down the track Unlimited used to be fun.....no longer fun. Just Modified pulling in a different clas DSS no longer fun to much breakage Make it less bs time, and more pulling Tomah, BG used to be fun, now just a let down because we have to be on kill always Just my two cents |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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I don’t under stand what last two posts are saying:
“I wanna see more than have the class actually go do the track” “Have more than half the competitors go do the track” What does that mean, when, where, and why are pullers not getting to pull? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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You get it Mark, you just wanna be an dink.....half the competitors are duds... and you are why I am done spending money on the crap that is nipa |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Mark so you understand.....pullers have spent untold thousands to build a machine....it don’t go down the track.....I ain’t spending money to watch it......it is crap, |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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My Opinion
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Where are all of these pullers at that dont go down the track?At the pulls I go to 95% go down the track and make a good pull..I was around back in the late 1960's and in to the 1970's when lots of pullers were blowing turbos and twisting off pump shafts on the Roosa-masters....Most of the alky guys were fighting their pullers trying to make them run right..Since pulling first started theres always been breakage and pullers that dont get down the track...It takes awhile to get a new puller dialed in...As far as I'm concerned they make it down the track better today than they did 40-50 years ago..The sleds are sure far more reliable today than they were 40-50 years ago.. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?the
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Registered: 03/17/2017 Posts: 139 |
One thing that is going on is the parts cost is out of this world so not everyone that wants to pull can afford it most have $60000 to $20000 they can afford which is why the local "small guys" can play most can't afford to buy 4 $8000+ turbos plus another $100000+ for the engine and all other accessories to run with the "big boys" to run super stock or at least $80000 ×4 per engine to run modifieds not to mention the other $60000+ to $100000+ for the rest of the machine. plus whatever it costs to transport them across the country. All that said I still love the sport at whatever level. As said in previous post pullers are our own worst enemies. Because we can't resist the temptation " I need more power" |
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(long) My issue with what NTPA has become
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
i grew up in Indiana as an NTPA fan. As a boy, I couldn't wait to get to the Indiana State Fair every summer, and loved the Indy Super Pull in winter. As I got a little older and the '80s came around, even with TNT, USHRA, and other groups becoming more popular, I always looked to NTPA as the leaders. As many have said, something is not right in the organization.
This isn't intended to rag on any specific class, but to illustrate a point someone made earlier in this thread, one problem with lack of leadership in NTPA imo is how they have cheapened their brand. Now, I'm normally one who rolls my eyes when someone says << INSERT CLASS HERE >> shouldn't be a GN class. In fact, I believe Light Pros have earned GN status even though NTPA won't exercise foresight and sanction it as a GN class. That said, NTPA was founded on Super Stocks and Modifieds. No matter which other classes or variants they add, the core (or essence if you will) are Super Stock and Modified tractors. ALL other divisions, including trucks, were added later. I live in Indiana, right in the heart of Region 2. If I owned a Super Stock tractor in Indiana, and didn't want to run the GN circuit, what are my choices as a prospective NTPA member? R2 - 4 HSS hooks. 1 LSS hook HSTPA- 2 HSS hooks (both @ Connersville where 2 of the very few HSS in the state live) 1 LSS hook (Lynn, IN, same as the RN hook.) Why would I want to pay dues to get a maximum of 6 hooks (if one followed both HSTPA and R2 HSS), or only 1 LSS hook in the entire region? What other tractor options are on the HSTPA schedule as of today (keep in mind a lot of these are co-sanctioned with Wolverine Pullers and are in Michigan, or are R2 hooks in Ohio)? LLSS 4 PS 2 Lt PS 11 Lim PS 5 SF 4 HF 7 My bread and butter, top of the line tractor classes have 2 and 1 hooks respectively, and the 6 other divisions range from 2 to 11 hooks. Even with a new class such as LLSS, 4 hooks would not make me want to sign right up. Regionally, while Light Pros have to split into two territories within the division due to so many hooks, the SS have basically nothing. When I said "cheapened their brand" above, I meant that these other divisions are taking away from those classes that made the organization grow to it's heights in the 70s and early 80s. I can see a place at the table for all these in a State-level organization, but imo the states have strayed from their top classes. This is not just an NTPA thing.... across the state line, ITPA has less than a handful of heavy SS hooks and I believe did away with multi-engine mods. However, if you want to see an antique, or half a dozen variations of Pro Farm, they can hook you up. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation- as hooks dwindle, the # of true super stocks dwindles. There may be guys who would like to buy/build one, but what's the point? And this is where I have a beef with lack of leadership, vision, or whatever you want to call it. I realize NTPA is not the only game in town as promoters have the ability to switch sanctioning bodies, but (to me) going back years now, someone in a leadership position in NTPA or WPI should have recognized the situation, been proactive, and worked their tails off to save the SS and Mod classes at the state and regional levels. (Yes, Todd. I know R2 has plenty of mod hooks. State/RN mods are basically dead everywhere else in NTPA). I realize when push comes to shove, a promoter cannot be forced to book a class they don't want, but it also seems like with organizational leadership and direction, the SS class in R2 could have been made a priority with booking. I've suggested this before, but it's also possible to institute a cap for a class; when met, other classes need booked before any more hooks will be sanctioned (meaning, let's say Light Pros get 20 hooks for the region. Once that many get booked, then no more until SS, Lim Pro, PS get more bookings, etc). Where are the next generation of GN SS and Mod pullers going to come from if they are not cultivated, especially in the Region 2 heart of NTPA (side note to NTPA/WPI- Yes, we know your home is Columbus, OH, but your GN schedule is too Ohio-centric. Do you see the potential problems for your GN circiut SS classes 5-10 years down the road when you have so many events in Ohio, but in the same R2 region, SS tractors are becoming extinct? Does that seem like solid "vision" to you?) 5-10 years down the road??? The Open SS class is sitting on the operating table with the cardiac surgery team right now. You mean you couldn't work with GN promoters to book the class more than once? (Read prior threads on this forum for suggestions on things you could have or possibly still can do this year). I could go into other topics like rule making process, sponsors, purse structure etc., but I urge the current leadership to take a long, hard look at what you want the organization to be. What should the NTPA be? If that means bringing in fresh blood, go for it. It's not easy for Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, World of Outlaws, etc. to adapt their product to the times. Some of those groups are struggling a lot. There are cultural and demographic issues facing all motorsports. We all get that. However, even with those challenges, it seems like NTPA should be more than what it has become. NTPA still does a fantastic job adapting safety rules to meet challenges (see responses to Shelton mini explosion or Long modified driveline), but I with they would show that same level of leadership/vision in other aspects of pulling beyond safety. Rant over. Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2020 10:25PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: (long) My issue with what NTPA has become
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
being a 50 yr fan,its as simple as this Michael,in the 70s and 80s there was at one time ,if I remember right,(look in a early 80s puller in the back) 39 member state associations.now theres like 6-8 small groups,right theres the downfall |
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Re: (long) My issue with what NTPA has become
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Mr. Promoter Sir;
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Sir:
You just gave a prime example of why the sanctioning body needs to be in control of the product from start to finish. 1. When it comes down to it there are very few promoters. Yes, there are people that put up money to have a pull but do very little to promote the pull or provide a venue that meets what is required of the sanctioning body. Meaning proper scale area, pad for draw bar checks, and a number of times not enough equipment to provide the show you think you are getting. Making the show to slow and poor for the fan. 2. Just as Michael pointed out, to many of one class is not good. Why Mr. Promoter should any class have 25 to 35 hooks in a season? Because the same problem you addressed in your statement will bring low numbers to the classes. |
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Re: (long) My issue with what NTPA has become
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G705
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All of the issues brought up in this topic are 100% valid, but the answer to this question is much more basic.
You don't have to get into the weeds to figure it out. In pulling, there are 3 groups of people for the most part that are involved: the promoters/associations, the pullers, the fans. The problem with pulling is that what is best for one group is not necessarily the best for the other two and vice versa. Think about pulls and the situations that arise at them, I mean really think about it. I'll give you an example: Let's say a class is almost complete at a pull. Pick a class, any class I don't care. Let's say the class is moving along well, I mean the track crew is doing a fantastic job, there's little down time between hooks, the tractors are putting on an excellent show, the announcers are on point, the crowd is good and into it, and you get to the last puller or two and they are in the points hunt. When one of those guys pulls, The sled has a malfunction or it is determined there was an issue with the sled in the middle of the class or there was a tractor that was allowed to pull illegally or something, my point is something that by all accounts should cause the class to be started over. Well, to be fair to the points chase, you should start the class over. IF you start class over, some of the drivers will be happy, some won't because they don't want to put 2 runs on their tractor and their tractor obviously won't run as well hot in many situations which is perfectly understandable. Plus, the fans are going to get cranky and lose interest REAL fast because the "show" has just turned south, which is going to make the promoter grumpy becuase you need/want all the fans you can get. Die hard tractor pulling fans will understand the situation but 80% of the fans there are casual and won't come back and don't care about points standings. So in this case, you were fair to some of the pullers, and the fans and promoter got short end of the stick. Who's right and who's wrong?? The trick to do this right is to figure out how to balance what is best for all 3 groups.....which isn't easy. Or determine which group is most important and focus on them. FYI I do pull with ITPA, I'm not a keyboard puller. |
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Numbers
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Promoters
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Do people think that NTPA chooses the classes at an event? The answer is no. The promoter does. The guy writing the check does. The reason some of these “top dog “ classes have lost hooks is due to the number of vehicles that show up. Why would a promoter keep writing checks to have 4 or 5 “top dog” tractors show up? So what happens? Next year the promoter writing the check drops “top dog” class and goes with “smaller dog” class and gets 15 tractors. Guess what ? The promoter writing the check is happy, the fans are happy and the “smaller dog” class getting to hook there again next year. Everyone needs to take care of the promoter. Without the guy writing the check for the show, we don’t have a show to go to. |
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NTPA needs to control their product
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Facts
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The promoters should have some choice but not the final say. WPI acts more as a pimp than someone controlling their product. It’s the law of supply and demand. If something is in that high of demand, and I’ll use the light pros, you want them price goes up. Once they are booked 20 times for a season that’s it. Preference given to promoters with longest contracts. There are some venues that shouldn’t have a pull, their facilities just aren’t conducive to having an event. It’s the old quality vs quantity debate. If you lose a few pulls so be it. The ones you do have will be better quality as far as puller participation goes. NTPA needs to be the players association to WPI. The pullers still have the power but they need to coalesce. At the end of the day the promoter and the organization need the puller to put on the show more than the puller needs them. It costs me zero dollars to sit at home. The current NTPA board would never for lack of a better term unionize. Just because you sit on a county Fairboard and want a pull doesn’t mean you should get one. A lot of county fairs would like to have Kenny Chesney, but he knows his value and you’re gonna have to travel to see him. Same with the PBR, yeah you can see bull riding at your local county fair, but if you want to see JB Mauney or Jess Lockwood you’re gonna have to travel. As entertainment we have been undervalued. Pullers are treated more like lot lizards than something of value. As long as pullers continue to allow the devaluation happen, nothing changes. The whole point is devaluation of the product because every fair wants a sanctioned pull and the belief that quantity is more important than quality. Maybe as a new promoter you can only select from certain classes and not the whole line up. Prove you know how to facilitate a pull and know how to treat your entertainment. I guarantee you if you look at the contract for a big act it comes with large demands. I spent a day with Cox concessions at the Ohio State Fair as kid, sorting M&Ms for Guns and Roses because they only wanted red ones. Big acts have demands like that. While pullers wouldn’t make demands like that, why not have a hospitality tent. He just worked half a day, went home, loaded up and drove 3 hours to put on a show for you. Is a cold drink and something to eat being unreasonable? Talk to pullers who go to pulls that have hospitality, how you as a promoter treat us can help determine whether or not it’s worth my effort to come back next year. You treat the pullers right, word spreads and the quality of your show as far as number of competitors will improve. Stop treating us as second rate citizens at your fairs. Some of you will say that’s not us so don’t get all butt hurt if it’s not you. Product control, quality vs quantity, puller devaluation. Better control of your product might also lead to more sponsors. If I’m the marketing coordinator for Mossy Oak and the old one named Dustin grew up in Zanesville Ohio and loved pulling, am I going attach to the PBR or a haphazardly run show at a county fair? CONTROL THE PRODUCT! |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
You have quite the opinion. Do you have a name ? |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
Dick, I agree with you, some but also disagree. That pay is great, but this type pull pops up say 4 a year, at this time promoters can not afford that price and neither can organizations, so pullers start going more with money, in which I do not blame them, but it hurts organizations, and that hurts the sport. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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plum krazy
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Does the SUPER BOWL hurt the NFL ??? |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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Makes sense
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Isnt that kinda like asking if BG or Chapel Hill hurts the NTPA? |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
If NTPA and PPL did a joint Championship at end of season then that would be great for pulling and would be Super Bowl of pulling, if both organizations had same class structure and took top 10 from both and then you would really know who was the best Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: NTPA needs to control their product
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Registered: 04/06/2016 Posts: 126 |
The Brown County Ohio fair is known as the Brown Co Grand National has in the past had several of both organizations arrive and put on a great show at $10 to get in the gate. There is a lot of testing also. If I remember correctly it also pays better than a state hook to win. |
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Re: Numbers
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Duke Kaboom
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I think the number one problem is the product. Who wants to watch scraper tractors and rollers work a track all night? I know my kids and a lot of others don't. Now if you have double track action with minimal time between hooks you have something. You have a 3-3 1/2 hour time span with kids. That is why Monster Jam is so popular. Their shows are right around 2 hours long and non stop action.
Look at the NHRA model, they have perfected their program with very little down time for oil downs, wrecks, etc. Back years ago an NHRA event took all day. They (NHRA) realized if they were going to be competitive in the TV market, they needed to change and they did. As someone mentioned above with the rodeos, make a pull an "event". Just my 2 cents. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
I have been reading the posts on “What is wrong with Pulling” and that has changed into what can we do to help.
5 years ago when I started in the Media for the pulling world, most everyone was let’s make the pullers the Rock Stars, and everyone in media done a really great job at that, and I still think that will help, but not all that needs to be done. I feel that we need to keep incorporating that along with start a promoter spotlight, regardless of what everyone thinks the promoter is the backbone of our sport along with the puller, it goes both ways, without the promoter pullers have nowhere to pull and without pullers you would not need any part of it. Ok, start with my knowledge, been around and in pulling all my life. Been a puller, promoter, organization leader and now crew member and in media. I have talked to a lot of people in the pulling world. And here comes the rest of my opinion on what could be done to help the sport, and things that might hurt it in my opinion. First off, I feel that the State level of pulling should be resurrected, PPL, NTPA, and Outlaws, need state level organizations under them, to help sustain growth up the ranks. All rules should align- period/ only way it will all grow. Second, something needs to change in pay, using pictures, the Mission Impossible Tractor was one of the best in its day, and cost was approximately $125,000-$150,000 motors around $14,000 each, then you have more recently built engines close to $40,000 each and I am guessing here around $350,000 total. And with that, prize money has stayed really similar. Now with that we all know that if prize money goes up it is paid by the promoter. So, media, organization, and pullers should help promote events so promoters can gain more sponsorship to help pay more prize money, not increase ticket price. Cost of everything as a whole is what is causing a slow death, and it is a whole not just a few classes. So please, everybody work together to change the slow trend. And just my 2 cents, I love the idea of the shootout style pulls are a big plus, but will not help the sport as a whole, you throw out a bunch of money for an event, that your normal promoter can’t afford, you are not helping the sport. To make the sport better you have to start at bottom and work your way up. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
Eric, I agree wholeheartedly about your comment about the non sanctioned shoot out events. They are not the answer to pulling's future. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I don't agree at all. First it puts money in the pullers pockets. Second it is adding an element of interest that the sport is dearly lacking and third, and most important the national organizations have had years of opportunity to do something exciting and interesting and they have failed miserably. The national organizations do not or will not do anything that out of the " business as usual" approach. I believe that everyone will admit that the NFMS Super Stock combo class was one of the most anticipated class in a long time. We talk about making the sport more exciting and interesting and then when someone steps up and does it we complain. Well you can't have it both ways, either it's try something new or stay stagnant. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2020 01:19PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 08/26/2019 Posts: 26 |
It's got to be a fan experience. If we need more money in pulling you got to get more people to attend pulls. Pulls are not a money making proposition for majority of them. Allot of them wouldn't even exist if they didnt have local sponsorship or donations. You start with offering a better show that is fast moving that would be the place to start. Then atmosphere and just not during the pull. Has to be a carnival feel with vendors possibly music or other things to see and do. Sponsor vip area. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Right on
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I agree with this point wholeheartedly! This needs to be about getting people to the track. If you get the attendance numbers up, the dollars will follow - across the board for everyone involved. Sponsors aren't going to spend $$$ on events that have low turnouts. Be honest, fans don't REALLY know how much each puller is taking home with a class win that night...…….and they don't care either. Most fans do not care which circuit is pulling either....NTPA GN or RN, PPL Champions Tour , Outlaws,.... whatever. To many, its a TRUCK AND TRACTOR PULL. Only the die hard fans know the difference. And I believe, that is why many sanctioned pulls are losing events just because fairs are going to lower level pulls or brush pulls. A pull, is a pull, is a pull. It's not about the pullers or the equipment at the show......ITS THE SHOW!! Take NFMS this year. T-shirt cannons, light show (before the first hook and after a FP), multiple announcers with different styles, and a relatively short show with a mixture of classes. Can this be done at other events? Probably not to that extent because this all takes money. But, to make money - you have to spend money, right? Cheap and easy fixes? - Announcers - Only need two. One with technical knowledge of the sport and the pullers. And the other a funny/entertainer type that mixes with the crowd and does an occasional driver/crew interview. - Local talent - Have a local puller class or two after the national/state level pull. There are fans who just don't like the bigger classes of pulling or maybe just friends and neighbors will come out to support, whatever. - Giveaways - These can come from any level of sponsor, fair boards, wherever. If your entertainer announcer was going through the crowd (as they did at NFMS with the dvds), and ask trivia type questions either about pulling or whatever and had giveaway prizes. Or tossing out of the koozies like the Cenpeco crews do every year at BG. Basically, it's not always about what's on the track. It's about GETTING THEM TO THE TRACK! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Fan 2
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Having taken MANY first timers to pulls in the past 25 years I can tell you if you don't think it matters what is on the track, you have no clue! Try explaining the difference between light pro, limited light pro, sf etc to an inner city kid that's never even seen a riding lawn mower! You can do all the tricks shooting shirts in the seats all night, but if they are bored with the show they aren't coming back!
I can tell you EVERY kid I took when asked in the car on the was home what their favorite class was answered the Unlimited class! Also the kids loved the names on some of the tractor's and would remember them for years. "Green Ganster" was one they really liked. One little girl liked " Holy Cow" cause of the theme. She's now in college to be a vet, and last time I spoke to her she asked how "Holy Cow" was doing? She was disappointed to hear he was no longer pulling. The pullers are also always friendly and take time for the kids, that goes a long way in them wanting to come back! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
Dick, I respect your opinion and your forum but... |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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safety first
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Homey, you really believe that your suggested "street diesel truck class" is 'puller entry level into the pulling sport' affordable?
I totally disagree. When I see a so called Street Stock or Workstock 4x4D blowing a horrendous column of smoke, it very obviously does not fit the name term of the class !! And unfortunately, too many do not have the appropriate safety equipment. The worst accident to seriously injure a spectator I have seen in more than a 50 year pulling career, just happened to be last summer in one of your suggested street truck classes. Big column of smoke in this particular truck, like most everyone in the class of sixteen. 80% way down track, a huge snap noise. Just 30' away from me, a young mom instantly was screaming, with blood gushing from her head. An ambulance trip to the hospital ensued. I have the photos of the stock cast driveline yoke that ambushed her. Obviously, the truck did not employ appropriate driveline safety shielding. And therein is the problem with today's so-called 'pulling entry level classes'. Pullers spending money on performance but not (enough) on safety of their vehicle. Accidents like this, let alone it was a 'brush' pull, give the pulling sport a bad public relations image. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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300' Puller
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Keep it Simple. Come up with a universal vision followed by a universal mission that everyone can get on board to help promote and sell to all the people that don't know what pulling is or why they should be watching it. I would like to see all three major pulling organizations just once have a meeting together in one room at the end of the year and see where things go. There is a ton of experience in each of these organizations. One might be surprised what a simple meeting might do for this sport. If we can define what this sport stands for today, it will help define what direction we need to go. Keep it simple and and only answer a few simple open ended questions that are organization specific. A simple set of questions to start with are below:
1. Why does each organization exist? 2. Where would we like to go? (Statewide, regionally, nationally) 3. What does this sport stand for? 4. How can we work together to help accomplish 1,2 and 3? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Let's not forget the canfield fair is only a county fair,that's from thier website,tho it's the 3rd largest county fair in the usa,it took a county fair to have the big 1 day purse...lol |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Found this quote in a forum that sums it all up ! "That's what's killing pulling, the cost vs. return because they refuse to write decent rules. A $40K+ truck running for $300 is really out there." That quote was made 5 years ago. when the purses go up so does price of pulling! The better the payout, the more willing pullers are to Break parts to win! There's a reason you don't see many local pullers pull at Champions tour (PPL) or Grand National (Ntpa) its not that they don't have the quality equipment, there just not willing to try to break it to compete! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
I've been shouting for years that the #1 problem in pulling is a two-headed monster: time and labor.
-Time, in and of itself, has multiple ways to be managed better. A couple examples: *Time at the track: the time it takes from the first hook to the last hook, how time is used between hooks...there are some that disagree with me but if you start pulling at 6-7pm with 5 classes you ought to be able to wrap things up before midnight, 10:30ish is perfect; the fans are happy, the pullers are happy and the vendors are happy. There's a faction of y'all out there that think it's a night wasted if you're not pulling until 2am...not this fat boy, no way, no how! But that don't mean I don't love y'all, seriously... *Time away from the track: This is focused right at the pullers and appreciating their time spent on the road, in the shop, and maybe, just maybe, working and earning a living in the midst of a season too. My observations are that national level pulling schedules are getting continually better to make travel days more efficient across the spectrum of organizations. The state level stuff is a real mixed bag. For example, I did some spit-ball figurin' and if, mind you, if, a LLSS team in KY got all worked up and wanted to hit every possible pull they could, they could easily travel 5000 miles in 2020 to pull...that's 5 days of simply riding in a hauler over the course of a summer, running a state circuit...that class is spread thin, in my opinion, among others, but that's another problem for another day. -Labor issues are centered around events, be it getting someone to hook and unhook sleds as part of the promoter's crew to having enough sanctioning body crew to get the job done without everyone running ragged. That doesn't even account for having personnel that's competent at particular jobs (track maintenance for example). It is amazing how having the right people in the right jobs doing their jobs the best they can, can make or break the speed and efficiency of a show. The old adage of "Good - Cheap - Fast: pick which 2 you want because you can't have all 3" rings true here too. Fixing labor issues at events goes a loooooonnnnnggg way in improving fan experience, and it's a battle that's fought at every level of pulling. Start fixing those two things then we'll go a long way towards fixing many other "problems" we face. If we're honest and passionate about the sport for the overall good of sport and not for self-serving mandates, that will go a long way to fix any problem faced. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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No one seems to have mentioned variety. I have been a fan for 50 years and my number one issue is the lack of variety in each class.
In modified and unlimited, its pretty boring to watch the same setups on every tractor. There use to be a lot of ingenuity in these classes with Turbines, aircraft engines, automotive engines, and industrial engines. When the rules were changed to favor the automotive engines, this variety was lost and in my opinion, the variety was the most exciting aspect of the classes. Rules need to be changed to allow all types to run together and be competitive. Other tractor classes have them same issue, who wants to watch a class of 20 Deeres and 1 or two others in pro stock. In Super it was an all IHC show. Adjust rules to allow all brands to be competitive and variety will come back. Light super has good rules and there is a lot of variety in the class. It just needs a way for the diesels to run with the alcohol and be competitive. Trucks are also lacking variety but improving. Who wants to watch 20 t buckets. Again, we need a way to allow a variety of power plants instead of the all hemi show. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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moose
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we also need more pulling events in certain areas, so that:
1. some of the most dedicated fans to the sport of truck and tractor pulling, don't have to travel so far, and 2. hit some more events down south and out west, so that the sport of truck and tractor pulling can spread, be heard, and grow. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Homey
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There is not enough emphasis on classes that are affordable . It’s all about the unlimited or pro stocks . A guy that wants to start can’t afford to build one of these or even a super farm is out of control!! They will however start at the bottom and go up. Most spectators don’t know what a 466 or a 505 hot farm with a box turbo class is . Take a look street diesel truck class . |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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safety first
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This posted above, I not know why. It should be here under "Homey" listing.
Homey, you really believe that your suggested "street diesel truck class" is 'puller entry level into the pulling sport' affordable? I totally disagree. When I see a so called Street Stock or Workstock 4x4D blowing a horrendous column of smoke, it very obviously does not fit the name term of the class !! And unfortunately, too many do not have the appropriate safety equipment. The worst accident to seriously injure a spectator I have seen in more than a 50 year pulling career, just happened to be last summer in one of your suggested street truck classes. Big column of smoke in this particular truck, like most everyone in the class of sixteen. 80% way down track, a huge snap noise. Just 30' away from me, a young mom instantly was screaming, with blood gushing from her head. An ambulance trip to the hospital ensued. I have the photos of the stock cast driveline yoke that ambushed her. Obviously, the truck did not employ appropriate driveline safety shielding. And therein is the problem with today's so-called 'pulling entry level classes'. Pullers spending money on performance but not (enough) on safety of their vehicle. Accidents like this, let alone it was a 'brush' pull, give the pulling sport a bad public relations image. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Homey
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Safety first, that’s the job of the sanctioning bodies tech inspectors to check that kind of stuff. I agree safety first!!! But you have to have affordable classes for new comers! That’s where the sport got started , farmers unhooked the @#$%& spreader turned the pump up and pulled and were hooked! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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safety first
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Homey, I agree with your reply. However, did you notice in my last sentence a key description - 'brush' pull.
When I inquired with a key figure in sponsoring this 'brush' pull, (who just happens to pull one of these trucks) about if the trucks were tech inspected, he did his best to hedge the question but thought they were not inspected. Homey, can you see that is a much too common problem in your starter street stock truck class? More stunts like this around the country will have a devastating effect upon the whole pulling sport. I have stated a few times previously on this chatboard that the 'brush' organizations / promoter(s) need to get their safety inspection act employed and effective. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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If safety was a priority, you wouldn't have drive shafts flying through the air and rear tires rolling down the track. Pulling is largely reactive instead of proactive in terms of safety |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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c'mon
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You are an idiot if you think this is the only sport that has "reacted" to a situation and subsequently implemented a rule for it.
You could open the rule book of any motor sport and put peoples names and occurrences to most rules. Pulling is no different. It is virtually impossible to sit down and map out all potential failures ahead of time. Sure you can capture a good many, but as more power is found through the years there will always be something that fails as a subsequent action. Believing otherwise is foolish. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I can't answer the question for NTPA or any national organization. I have no idea where an NTPA event is held any where near me in Northeastern Pa.. I know locally there have been several attempts to have a stand alone pull without the support of a fair. All have failed. These events had East Coast, NYTPA, Empire State and Interstate tractors and trucks. Very low fan attendance provided less than break even money. In my part of the country the number one problem is Fan base. If you don't have a strong fan base you can't support the sport leave alone grow it. I wish I could say how to fix that but I can't. I've been a fan and a brush puller since 1976 and would love to see the sport be strong as it was back when I started. I guess we can all help by attending as many pulls as we can as pullers and fans. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Jdpuller19
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My first thought is the expenses of having a pulling vehicle has out grown what can be charged for fan admission. The fans are what keep all of us on the track and that is rarely mentioned. Admission prices keep going up and that makes it harder for fans to pay for their whole family to get into a pull. Just my opinion. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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moose
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I agree with you, because in the summer of 2019, at the opening pull for ppl at fort recovery, camille shelton was hurt from her clutch exploding, but she had all the right safety equipment. So grubby, even though a rear wheel can come off, does that mean that they have the non proper safety equipment? accidents happen! its life! if the sport of truck and tractor pulling gets too safe, then where is the thrill and the risk of doing something you love? john force has certainly proven it too us. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Yeah, safety first. Minirods start running new powertrains and nobody bothers to ask if maybe we should look at safety until Camille Shelton had her incident. A semi can eject the entire motor onto the track, but that was probably just a fluke too right? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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whatever
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Yup......those incidents sure did happen. And I bet you would absolutely have been smart enough to foresee both incidents long before they happened and would have known precisely how to mitigate them.
You're a wise man sir Grubby. I sure hope you can become the safety director of the major pulling orgs so we will never have another failure.......ever! The world will be a better place for sure. 
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Well
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Biggest problem is there isn't that big of fan base like nascar or other motorsports, whether that's because of lack of marketing or not its the biggest problem. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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My Opinion
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Both Nascar and NHRA Drag Racing are having attendance problems too..Lots of empty seats at the NHRA finals at Pomona last Fall..Lots of the younger generation isn't interested in motorsports of any kind... |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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moose
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I might be a young kid, but i've been around pulling since i was in my mother's womb, and I've got a few things to say:
1. NTPA is a great organization, but what they need to do is get a bigger payout to the pullers. 2. When going to Tomah, I like the idea of having limited pros and light pros in there, but keep all the classes in a nice order, and since it is a SUPER NATIONAL, keep ALL the gn classes there, even though the amount of pullers from past years don't come. 3. it's just sad how NTPA is losing pulls to other organizations because of lack of intelligence. get more pulls to the regional levels, such as six and five. 4. If chapel hill is a super national, then why is there only two sessions, five classes, the same classes for both days. in my opinion, rockwell, ia should be a super national rather than chapel hill. 5. If nobody has noticed yet, the amount of fans at tomah has decreased very badly. 6. if the NTPA is going to have it's own tv show, why is it on RFD-TV? PPL puts their's on NBC, and I can bet u that the ratings are a lot higher. They need to get to a different station, and using higher definition cameras. Overall, if the NTPA doesn't change their ways, then they won't exist in the next 50 years. Tractor pulling is not about the pull, but about the PULLER! The NTPA needs to make it suit everybody! P.S. they need more turbo, hitch height, and fuel checks at more pulls, otherwise everybody will keep cheating and just keep getting away with it, and that is not fair to the other pullers. It makes the organization look bad, and it makes other pullers not want to come. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 03/28/2008 Posts: 296 |
I'm just a young guy but back when the old timers pulled they always said the introduction of the turbo is what screwed pulling up. Once that came out everyone wanted bigger cubes and it made to cost go nuts. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Vote Trump
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All us pullers and fans of Motorsports in general need to pay close attention to what’s happening with our country. IF someone like Bernie Sanders wins the election we all will have much bigger fish to fry than worry about what’s wrong with pulling!!! Trump 2020!!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Joey
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that is exactly correct, same with Warren, ---------where does the free stuff come from with socialistic or communistic type government, from the rich, when all the working class is used up, we are already the minority in percent of people,middle class pays the most and many have jumped ship and jointed the elected official type take more than you give, many percent of able bodied folks getting disabrainiety comp payments weekly and other kinds of welfare checks and I won't mention the other types leaching off the working class.My Father would roll over in His grave if He knew that socialist were running for pres.. and being popular,WWII was fought against this type. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Puller too
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I think there are many big problems in pulling. As for the number one problem in my opinion is most likely the costs associated with it as well as other motorsports or any recreational hobbies as far as that goes! People may not believe that, but as costs rise, people drop out she to lack of funds to compete, that then causes non filled classes, which relates to the downward spiral we are in, as classes decrease, people dont have the desire to pay for admission to watch because they feel they aren't getting their money worth. By the way I agree with VoteTrump. Its only a matter of time before the epa try's to come down on our sport. This is another topic for another day. Go President Trump! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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JMO
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There are several discussions on Midnight Mistress/Fonda Board.
2 topics; 1;More money to Pullers.Everything has went up in cost,except pay back to the show.....the Pullers putting it. 2. L.R. From NTPA Got so heated 'Fonda' posted in and threatened to expose posters posting their opinions. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LEWIS
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This is a hobby theres never going to be money made in this sport .Fairs only use pulls as a one night filler as soon as someone comes up with some kind of cell phone WARS competion its over |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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NTPA Championship pulling enters its 15 year of production of TV programming on RFD TV. This association is a great fit for NTPA pulling and will continue to be in the future. We have a great relationship with Rural Media and there are more opportunities than with many networks.
PPL DOESNT put its programming on NBC or CBS Sports Networks or MAV TV. Lucas Oil Productions DOES. It's not a far comparison to contrast PPL's TV package and NTPA's due to the fact that LOS has many types of motorsports and that allows Lucas Oil branded sanctioning to share their great TV package. The variety of content and the "buying power of Lucas Oil productions" is great for the overall promotion of pulling. NTPA has 26 weeks of NEW CONTENT programming a year. NTPA pulling is featured EVERY WEEK. 156 programs a year, 52 weeks-3 airings per week. Rural America's favorite motorsport is on Rural America's most important network. I started my TV career with NTPA on ESPN, back when that was the only sports channel. Pulling also appeared on The NASHVILLE NETWORK (TNN) and those few pulls were ratings gold for the network. When TNN would schedule Trucks and Tractor Power BEFORE it's NASCAR or NHRA coverage, the viewership was always larger. There has been some conversation regarding NTPA moving to a "bigger" or "better" network. RFD TV's numbers have grown in Total Households over the past several years. NTPA would not be able to move to "sports" networks due to cost and that leads to less programming during the year. Pulling's base is in rural America and don't think its gonna be moving into the Atlanta area any time soon. The midwest has fairgrounds and the bulk of the spectator base. Hard to find large fairgrounds in the South and West. On behalf of PPL and NTPA "THANKS FOR WATCHING" |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
Doc, are you still working with NTPA ? |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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I announce several National events and Host the RFD TV weekly TV. I would very much like to work for NTPA on a full time basis. My years of expertise in a number of different motorsports, marketing, event management and television would be a real benefit to NTPA. Due to the current "situation" with pulling's executive board I'm limited to my involvement with NTPA. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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My defense of NTPA is that it's the longest serving sanctioning body in pullling. It's been the rules making authority over the years and it opened the doors to the automotive industry for many in pulling.
The idea that NTPA is gouging the puller or keeping all the money is simply not true. It's the same crap I heard back when "DPS has quarter million dollars in his desk" and everyone makes way too much money working at NTPA. The first year of the PPL I was the producer of TV for ESPN and the Outdoor Channel. Going into that first year, I knew it would be for one year only. MAV TV, Lucas Oil Productions were in the planning stages. I enjoyed working with PPL and the people at Lucas Oil. Our TV productions won National Awards. I was at the first drivers meeting when Forrest Lucas explained PPL and ATPA. RFD TV has over 50 plus million households and NTPA provides new content for 26 weeks. Pulling fans seem to like the presentation on RFD TV as we hear more trucks/tractors going down the track. NTPA pulling airing on a weekly basis, EVERY WEEK, is a big plus. I can't watch it on my local cable system, however, they are other ways to view RFD TV programming. JMO: MAV TV, CBS Sports, etc. are not available on every cable system either. Many say NTPA is going down hill because a handful of pullers have signed up with PPL. This happens every year. However, national events will have pullers from many different sanctioning or associations. Last year NTPA signed Hagerstown, Virginia Motorsports Park and a handful of other events. Rainouts hurt those events and they probably wont ever come back. NTPA events that have been around for years seem to have very large crowds. At look at those National multi day events shows a strong brand and sells many tickets to loyal NTPA fans. I've asked the question many times and never get a good answer: WHAT are the PPL's largest events by spectator numbers and puller numbers? I don't mean that in a negative way because the Lucas Oil model is based largely on TV Production to carry sponsorship values. It's a system that works very well. You don't need huge venues, record puller numbers or a large spectator base. NTPA is a membership association that has it's main focus on the puller. Promoters have to carry the load for marketing and ticket sales. However, NTPA has made great strides in the last few years working closer with the promoter. Also have never understood the pullers treated poorly,"blatant disrespect" by the NTPA. Would like examples? Most of the time it's a rule situation that doesn't go a pullers way or a sponsorship that has run it's course. Would like to know what horrible things NTPA has done? |
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Variety Show
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
I agree with many things that Doc has brought up in this post. To the people that are bashing the NTPA, just go pull somewhere else if NTPA doesn't appeal to your program. As he said, NTPA has always been there with safety in mind every year and improving each year as the horsepower gets higher. As a puller, it's probably not good to just have one organization to pull with; there's plenty of room for NTPA, PPL, Outlaws, etc. I've been to many pulls over the years, probably more TNT/USHRA/PPL than NTPA and both have great pulls in my opinion and have dedicated people that love the sport working for both of them. The big difference is that one is mostly member ran by voting members and the other one has/had an owner or group of owners that says here's what will work best for my promotion/sanctioning company. If you are looking for bigger crowds at the events to have more money to pay the pullers, you might want to re-visit the show format put on by TNT and USHRA back in the late 70s 80s 90s 2 or 3 pulling classes and some monster truck racing mixed into the show. I went to many of those events at the big arenas and stadiums and the big crowd was into the show due to the variety. I grew up around pulling and love pulling. Even at those pulls, there were a few pullers there that complained about the monster trucks being there. I'm pretty sure the crowd was larger because both pulling and monster trucks were at the same show. The mixture of the attractions is what draws a big crowd. I do recognize that the internet and access to all of the motorsports instantly on your phone or computer has made a difference as well. We went to Kingsport TN one time at a dirt track oval speedway and they ran 2wd trucks, 4x4 trucks, triple engine modified tractors, and Bigfoot Fastrax and a few other monster trucks and the stands were packed and the crowd loved it. Some other similar events ran 2 or 4 wd trucks, smoker tractors, and monster trucks. Same kind of shows at the Astrodome, Hoosierdome, Georgiadome, and the Silverdome (big crowds and lotsa variety and a 3 hour show). Sometimes you got to change things up; but it's up to the promoter to do this, not NTPA or PPL (unless you are at Lucas Oil Speedway). They just provide the sanctioning body. Some of those packed shows years ago had: monster trucks, mud racing, then sand racing because the mud was too messy to clean up in an arena, Dynamite Lady, Country music performers, atv racing, snowmobile racing on dirt, even some big time wrasslin at intermission at one pull, and the list goes on. Just some random ideals. On a more serious note, let's get behind our President and do everything that we can do to get this Corona Virus under control so we can get back to smelling diesel fumes and methanol. |
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Re: Variety Show
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The Lucas Oil model relies on a couple of things:
several sponsors supporting several motorsports, if Lucas Oil "went away" then PPL would go away. Lucas Oil Motorsports is a unique and successful model. Several sanctioning bodies and sponsors under one group. Sponsors come and go for a number of reasons: Dixie Chopper was a great example of sponsoring Lucas Oil Series. Write a check and let Lucas Oil sanctioning bodies or promotional groups hang the banners, read the PA announcements, get scoreboard ads and logos, get editorial pieces in magazines and on line. Sponsors love it because they know their message will be carried to a great number of DIFFERENT groups. How many pullers belong to NTPA? PPL? Outlaws? Those numbers are not very big when contrasted with NHRA or circle track competitors. That is one of the biggest drawbacks that sponsors will note. The reach of pulling. Yes, NTPA DOES have more members that PPL and Outlaws combined. NTPA has bigger crowd base in attendance than PPL. How many PPL events on TV each year? Total number of attendance at PPL events? The top four biggest NTPA events? Bowling Green, Tomah, Chapel Hill, Hutch? PPL events: Goshen, Wheatland? What channels outside of AG? Lots of great discussion on this topic. My main point is that the leading pulling groups have many things in common despite their two different business models. |
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Re: Variety Show
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Doc; thanks for the information. One thing that I would like to call to your attention is that Hillsboro by most accounts is one of the, if not the premier event on the PPL schedule. Having said that I believe there are fundamental differences to the NTPA business model versus the PPL model. And please anyone with more information please don't hesitate to correct me. The NTPA model was built on membership and state organizations, while the PPL model is a marketing platform for the Lucas Oil company. I believe that if you notice the PPL sponsors are a group of companies that Lucas Oil promotes in most, if not all of their Motorsport activities. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with either approach. However when you start building your organizations on state organizations and membership numbers and state organizations and membership dwindle then it becomes a problem. However I think that there are two larger questions here; one being why do competing organization start and how do they get their pullers. The defunct ATPA and now PPL is a strong pulling organization, why? New organization don't just happen. First it takes someone with vision and courage. Then it takes pullers willing to leave their old organization and try something different. So the bottom line is why do long established pullers with strong family roots in NTPA decide to leave. I certainly can not answer why pullers make the move, however the reality is that they are. Not all stay and many will pull NTPA for awhile and then make the switch to PPL and then back again. For some it's purse money, others travel mileage, some feel that they were wronged in either place and need to move on. For some friendship, and for some it's a preconceived idea that either organization has it's favorites and the favorites always get their way. Do I think two organizations is wrong or harmful to the sport, no. In fact it may be healthy to keep both organizations "on their toes". However the main thing that they both need to do is stop writing separate rules and stop putting on conflicting shows when ever possible. With the new "norm" I truly believe that now, more than ever they both need to work together for the survival of the sport. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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Try having the same prize money that was back in the ninetys, yet everything else has went up, EXCEPT PAYBACK !!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
Not the same prize as the 1990s. Offering a variety to the fan in to try to attract the same crowd numbers in 2021 as you had in the 80s and 90s would be the goal. Goal is to add some more excitement to the show to get more fans and get more prize money for the pullers and monster truck drivers 
or just keep doing what your doing and hope more people show up 
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1980s tv commercial for pulling/monster extravaganza
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
[www.youtube.com] |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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My reply was for Docs post . |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
10-4
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1980s Astrodome Commercial
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
[www.youtube.com] |
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Silverdome Commercial
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
[www.youtube.com] |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Doc,whatever PPL is doing with Lucas Oil why can't NTPA step up and do the same?
Better pay to pullers,beter coverage on TV...RFD TV isn't on all cable or satelite carriers.I can't get it on dish. Other than pulling re runs,its the most boring tv channel. NTPA needs to step up or step aside!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Just sayin
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All I can say is if Lucas Oil walked away from PPL, then what?
Just sayin’ |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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wt?
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My whole point is...IF PPL can do it,50+ yr old NTPA needs to step up their payback program and stop gouging the pullers!! get a Lucas Oil type sponser and take care of them.Every year its a sticker shuffle on our pulling vehicles.
Todays investment pullers make to put on NTPA's show has went up,while pay has been stagnent for years |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Festus Haggin
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AMEN --- PREACH IT !!! --- but to hear Doc tell it -- nothings better than NTPA -- not !!!! If it was PPL wouldn't have the pullers it does that at one time was diehard NTPA !!! Theres a reason for the change !!! Regardless of what anyone thinks PPL has a by far better payback an quiet frankly PULLERS ARE SICK AN TIRED of the blantly disrespect that NTPA has shown them !!! Truth is Truth !!!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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JMO
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Doc stop making excuses for NTPA.
IF....PPL can do it NTPA can too,it's that simple.But they choose not to and wonder why pulls signings are down and pullers are leaving. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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stop it
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Clearly you are just an idiot who doesn't get it.
Take your ax and go grind it elsewhere.....you repeat yourself a lot and it's annoying. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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1234
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what is annoying is posts like stopit. r u the only 1 to be able 2 push their opinion on others. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Just Sayin’
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Once again, if it’s SOOOO EASY to go get a $$$$ sponsor like a Lucas Oil, by all means, enlighten us on who it is?
Fact is, they’re extremely few and far between. Motor sports as a whole are suffering because sponsorship dollars are dwindling as costs are rising. Look at NASCAR and NHRA. Many of instances, races, tracks, even the entire circuit changes their main sponsors continually. Why is that? Because those sponsors aren’t seeing the return on their investments. So where can you find one? It’s got be someone who has the ability to write a big check and is a gear head. And those are few and far between. Good luck. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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JMO
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Don't have magic ball to look into.
So answer me this 'riddle' How does PPL do it? How is it PPL is on several TV stations and NOT year old re-runs? How can PPL PAY 2-3x times more? NTPA been around Wayyyyy longer and never have,prob never will get it.Except excuses;"Whaaa PPL has this,Whaaaa PPL has that"....what a bunch of bs.Step up or let PPL Take over completely.Instead of this slow gradual death were watching. 'stop it' don't like my posts,don't look at them.Go back to polishing your matchbox car collection |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LEWIS
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Really why does any of the sponsors need to sponsor know one pays any attention to those little stickers The product which is pulling in this case needs to sell itself .Go back to those TNT adds someone posted that would have sold me on pulling at least enough to go check it out sometime look at all the free sponsor ship IH, JD and the others companys get change the Game in these any sheet metal classes our sponsorship should come from agg companys |
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USHRA commercial / Chicago
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
[www.youtube.com] |
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1984 TNT Commercial / 2wd,4wd,dragster tractors, Bigfoot
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
[www.youtube.com] |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Just sayin
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No magic eight ball needed. Click on this link: [lucasoil.com]
Lucas Oil Motorsports includes everything from drag boats, to motocross, to late model, and on and on. They’re able to market that volume and variety of motorsports to create a wider audience. Wider audience = more demand to television = more value to additional sponsors that spend higher dollars. There may be more to it than that I’m sure, but actually investigate it for 5 minutes instead of just complaining on a message board! To your point, I do agree that NTPA needs to step up their game. Reps from the organization need to be more proactive and start promoting the sport (brand) outside the normal channels - meaning, outside the ag world. Agri/farming will always be pulling’s biggest demographic BUT that group is dwindling. Need to start looking for another demographic to fill that void - THEN, maybe you’ll find $$$$ |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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--- If NTPA is that great and strong an has 50yrs or whatever, then they wouldn't have a problem finding sponsors an ALL PULLERS would be so happy they'd stay put an not go to PPL !!!! PPL is the Organization that takes care of their people, not ntpa !!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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How has NTPA chased pullers away with blatant disrespect? What examples? Every year pullers migrate between the two. But if you look at many pullers schedules, several teams switch between the two groups.
PPL has a smaller amount of pullers to "take care" of and their attendance is so much less than an NTPA event. I don't understand how many post that NTPA disrespects or treats pullers badly? Is that just based on purse money or points money? Or is it personal? If it's rules that is hard to believe because of the rules making process, modeled after NHRA. Divisional committees meet during the year, then At the Enderle weekend. Than on to the NTPA with Tech Services input before it becomes a rule. Back in the day BAD Medicine tractor was going to give us fits because it kick ass almost every hook. We were not going to outlaw it, but coming up with a "handicap" was a tough situation. Alky tractors prior to that time didn't really matter much because there were not that many running the Grand National tour. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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?
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And you " Doc " have yet to explain why most ( if not the majority) of diehard pro stock pullers/ 4 engine mods/ and blown 2 wheel drives that used to run NTPA and left and most dont hook ntpa at all ---- APPARENTLY PPL is better !!! You can argue all you want the majority left and went where its better !!! If it wasn't PPL would of done folded up !!! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
We have run both organizations PPL was mostly with OSTPA on the state level although we have run at a few Grand American events but mosty we've never fit those rules as well. While NTPA was at both the RN and the GN. We have no issue with either organization and tend to run where the rules and classes fit our tractors the best. For several years we ran RN2 and OSTPA but any more we don't have the energy to do both but we enjoyed both equally over the years
Could the money be better sure but we all get into this sport knowing it's an expensive hobby. Could I do better money wise with PPL? That to me is a loaded question because in our case we would need to step up to 4 engines because of the blower overdrives our three on 14-71s could not compete. So having to run 4 plus having to push things really hard not sure the payoff is there in the long run. For us the same thinking goes for the Lt. Unlimited,it just can't be justified for us cost vs returns. Loved the class but the money pit just gets deeper so we make choices. My overall point is that for us it's not so much the organization or the payout but the rules that best fit our tractors. S'no Farmer |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Doc, I don't understand your comment PPL has less Pullers to take care of, and their attendance is much less. PPL has many State organizations now under their Banner and many many Pullers that don't only run the Champions Tour.
BB |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Stormy:
How many events does NTPA sanction as opposed to PPL? How many how many entries at events? Attendance? Hillsboro seems to be the BIG event for PPL. Whats the paid spectators? How many pullers entered? Goshen is an event that has a great built in crowd. Grandstands are similar to Chapel hill as far as spectator numbers. Dont know how many entries? How about Gordyville? Many say it's a great event. How many paid spectators? How many entries? If groups take the time to conduct events, more power to them. To all pullers who enter events, good luck. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Doc,
I don't have documented information on either, but I've been to most all of them. BG is the Big standout, and no offense but that's more to do with the club running it than the Organization they pick. Hillsboro crowd on Saturday night is no different than Tomahs Saturday night, Henry Illinois crowd is larger than most any one day event I know of, as well as Evansville Indiana. I think many would be surprised to really know. Not that it means a hill of beans. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Dick, #1... is Pulls and Pulling Organizations are run like a Boy scout troop. No one pushes anything, shows start late, no one has trained or put boot to butt on track crews, etc, etc, so you get a show dragging on with 5-8 minutes between runs, its agonizing and frustrating! And everyone before you go bashing, I am one of 6 guys on a board that Promotes a Pull, the PPL Southern Nationals in Springfield Tennessee. We work very hard all year raising money planning getting folks in place to handle duties. And in all that planning we make sure at 7:00pm start time something is going down the track, we run two tracks so it keeps the fans seeing something going on, we have two announcers and are toying with idea of 3. We do trackside interviews, and trackside award presentations. Guys we work our tails off, and we are/have been getting the City and County involved with it as much as possible too. At first I got the door slammed in my face most everywhere I went asking for help. But when the fans came out they came out in droves, we literally need more acreage on our grounds to grow our Event where we want to go. It took a couple years but now the community is seeing this is a great thing for our community! Pulling is not boring, but a poorly run Pull is! The ingredients are there, you gotta put the work in. The Organizations on National level have programs that are top notch, Pullers that are stars and equipment that is out of this World, but Promoters, Guys come on you gotta put the work in and try to involve your community with it. I encourage any Promoter that is struggling, call either myself, or Don Slama, we will be happy to help anyway we can. And if you call, have a pen and a notepad, and do at least as much listening as you do talking! All this same stuff will apply to any level of Pulling, but the lower levels become more difficult because many of the folks that are working at the events are more or less Volunteers, but the costs are significantly less so hiring help to work with these Guys could help, and when they see you really trying hard to put on a whale of an event, they will try harder too. just my insights. This is the problems Guys, if you are flowing over with Customers and money if flowing into promoters hands as well as Pullers, the Communities, then classes are booked, and usually they are asking ok what else you got? Guess what more money flowing to Promoters...Organizations could charge a little more, could pay the Pullers more...etc. this is the Problem pack the stands fill the coffers with cash Boom problems solved. And for you guys that always say wish it cost less, run a level that fits your budget, stop trying to adjust the Higher level to you! |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Bob: I couldn't agree with you more. Some promoters and club are still operating in the 70s with their approach to the fans. Just disk up a pasture, set up some stands and get some guy from the club to do the announcing and call it a show. Those days are gone, the motorsports fan has to many options to be taken for granted, to many sports on TV 24/7 to think just because there is a pull in town they are going to show up. NASCAR has lost touch with their fan base and their numbers are plummeting. Does pulling need to go down that dead end road also? It's pretty simple, promote the show locally, start on time, get a good knowledge family friendly announcer, move the vehicles down the track every 3 minutes or less. Give the fans a good fast paced show, give them their money's worth. And Bob is so right don't tell me it can't be done, Bowling Green, Hillsboro, Gordyville NFMS, and Southern Nationals and others know how to do it. County fairs are going to be taking a hit after the covid 19 situation. They don't need a carp show to tell them pulling is not working anymore. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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LEWIS
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As for the county fairs there needs to be some local farm classes trucks and tractors put back in the schedule 30 local farm boys can bring 300 fans on an average to an event.Now before someone gets crazy i'm talking county fairs everyone has forgotten what county fairs are about why we have them and how the got started the big crowds are gone because the locals have been cut out .This does not apply to your grand and National events |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
One other issue that can drag a show down is lack of tow tractors for any show at a level above farm tractors. Some fairs have a decent number of guys with antiques to pull the tractors off the track. However, several times I've seen someone break and the tow tractors are either pulling guys to the scales or if later in the class they may be towing someone to the pits. Something as simple as having enough tow vehicles can also help provide a good flow to the show, especially when they are backing up to a puller after their run as soon as they are done (if the vehicle can't be driven off the track). Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2020 01:48PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Number one problem with pulling???? The announcers suck. Take the time and effort to get to know the pullers and say something personal and intelligent about each one of them when they hook up. It would make a HUGE difference. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Mike P:
On behalf of "most" national event announcers, I hope we all don't suck. I agree that information regarding pullers background and their accomplishments in the sport are key bits of information to have. Not a big fan if I'm at a sanctioned event hearing about how the puller did at a non-sanctioned or competitive sanctioned event. Most promoters agree. I think that the TOWER announcer who keeps the flow going is key. Paying attention to the whole event is important. Sideline announcer can bring additional information and should be able to conduct interviews and handling winners circle.. Multi tracks sometimes cut down on time to devote to each competitor if the event is cruising along at a good clip. MIKE: what are your thoughts, positive or negative on announcer. Joke teller, screamer, etc. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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plum krazy
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Long time fan and puller, silence is golden for sure, but at many tracks and venues, usually smaller events the quality of sound system makes or breaks the show, then announcer's ability, some noise music, jokes, info, past histories all matter,we like to hear distances, class name and what the heck just happened when flames and pieces flew. Accuracy is good, but also filler is good, Two guys sparring is fun, bold not boring, loud music is good, fast beat and short ,it is entertainment not a testing session in school. |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Doc, Excuse my choice of words. That's definitely not the right one to be using. I'm sure there are some really great announcers out there and I'm also sure most of the them don't get paid a lot to do what they do. It just seems more often than not they don't have anything to say or if they do they get it wrong. I believe it's a wasted opportunity to engage and motivate the fans.
How long has the guy or lady been pulling? Why did they name their tractor such and such? How did they do last year in points? How are they doing this year in points? What's the condition of the track? What's special about this class of tractors? What makes it different from the others? How much weight is in the sled box? How did the puller do last week in such and such? The club could give the announcer a talk sheet about general things and each puller could fill one out on themselves. It wouldn't be that hard to do and would, I believe, make a Huge difference in the value of the event. Regarding jokes, yes if done in good taste, but the problem is that people have different ideas of what is in good taste and what isn't. Love the concept of a sideline announcer talking to pullers in the pits. Mike |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Posts: 1,159 |
Mike, I agree, that clubs and associations should help provide information such as last weeks results, last year and the current year points standings, driver information about vehicle, family, occupation, etc. This will help them gather more talking points as I've been to pulls were they run out of things to say. I've been putting together exactly this for the WTPA announcers this summer to make their jobs a little easier. Announcing isn't the easiest as they are usually the first person to get bashed at a pull, but we can help take some of that weight off their shoulders. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Only 2 announcers over the years have come to the pits to ask questions about us and our tractors. I won't name names but both are very informative announcers and are able to make accurate statements about the pullers. Several organizations have us fill out info sheets about us and our vehicles that are then available to the announcers, these seem to get more accurate info out to the fans during an event.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Thanks for the compliment, Todd! JW |
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Re: What is the #1 problem in pulling?
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You wish
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Doc and Greg will NEVER EVER be the late great Steve Evans or Army Armstrong no matter how hard they try ( can't even come close) 2 of the best announcers ever -- until Charles Poosh lost his announcing partner Andrew Armstead --- they were the best going, they walked the pits an met the pullers and spent time getting to no them and they put on a hell of a show, one in the booth one down on the track, they had history in their heads about each puller and would relay that to the crowd" they were awesome" they best bar none !!!! Doc you and Greg could learn from them !!! |
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