02:59:00pm, Thursday, April 25, 2024
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Time to take the NASCAR fans
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LSS Fan
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How can tractor pulling pick up all of these former NASCAR fans? Now is the time since they just keep digging their own grave by pandering to the minority that isn’t their fan base. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
If you are talking about the “former NASCAR fans” that are racists and are outraged by the banning of the Confederate flag, I think we are fine with who we have as fans |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Yeah, the Confederate flag is a funny thing; in my opinion NASCAR banning it is dumb, but some Americans use of it is even dumber. I understand that people want to be "Rebels" but ultimately the flag stands for a group of people that didn't want to be Americans anymore. The confederate flag is one of the most anti-American symbols in the history of our nation. Actually it's probably the most Anti-American symbol. That doesn't seem like something to be proud of too me. If someone wants to be a rebel or proud of their southern heritage that's fine but maybe they should find a less Anti-American symbol. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Its a kool flag and stands for a lot and may fly again someday Your post is the most stupidest thing ever heard of it wasnt anti Ameriican iT is part of being an American .What is stupid is taking down all these statues down like Robert E LEE and others scrap em all including MATIN LUTHER KINGS THAT RASCIST IF YOU CANT SRAP HIS ALONG WITH OTHERS ALSO IF YOU CANT SPEEK ENGLISH GET OUT. THIS IS AMERICA aLL LIVES MATTER NEVER HEARD SO MUCH BS Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2020 08:04AM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
It was the flag of a break away nation that chose to make it legal to buy and sell other human beings. They could break up family and trade humans as if they were cattle ONLY because of the color of their skin. If you don't find that repugnant then there is something wrong with your value system. It's not a kool (cool) flag. It's only the flag of white people, the American flag is the flag for ALL people. Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2020 12:01AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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LSS Fan
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Well in all fairness, the north owned slaves as well. All of this went on under the American flag we see today (with a few more stars). Time to do away with it as well? Just curious where you draw the line. Sure is gonna be expensive to take down the Washington monument, you know if we are going after anything and everything that had to do with slavery. Be a lot of African flags I would guess need to quit flying as well
There are a lot of problems in the black communities but I would say the confederate flag at Talladega or the statues at the courthouse are not the cause. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
All northern stated abolished slavery by 1805. The confederate flag was the flag of the break away states that wanted slave (humans) ownership. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2020 12:12AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Well in my opinion these people should be scrubbing the lincoln memorial with toothbrushes...just sayin |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
A lot of things that go on in yankeetown seem dumb to us too. Far more moving south than north. LOL |
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Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Just my thoughts and 2 cents.
Could tractor pulling gain fans that have left Nascar? Probably but tractor pulling is not what I call a mainstream sport. There are no big time sponsors and if there are, I don't see them using pulling in any advertisements (i.e.-Budweiser used to have cardboard cutouts of Dale Earnhardt long before Bud was Dale Jr.'s sponsor-they were with HMS). You don't see pulling on ESPN or Fox Sports. MavTV and RFDtv, yes but not a lot of people subscribe to those channels. And, the manufacturers (Ford, GM, CaseIH (Case New Holland Global), Deere, etc.) want nothing to do with pulling.....It comes back to the age old question-how do we get pulling into (or back into) the mainstream? The stars and bars: To me, it represents a dark time in American history, regardless of what side you were pulling for. In MY opinion, if you want to put the confederate flag on your truck, car, tractor, or hang one outside your house, thats your right. And I will defend your right. But, people seem to forget, Nascar tracks are not public property. Therefore, you must follow the property owners rules while there. Its no different then the mandatory mask rules-in public, there is not much anyone can say if you decide not to wear one. Walk into a grocery store (again, private business) and yes, they can mandate you wear one. Most people don't have a problem with the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" rules. And, since I'm talking about people saying "its their right", where are the protests over having to wear a seatbelt in your own car? (That is sarcasm...or is it?). |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Not sure what I did but my post should have been at the bottom of the page.....whoops |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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The south can never "rise again" because it never rose in the first place. The north won . It was also 160 years ago. Probably time to get over it and move on as a nation. |
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Way down yonder in Dixie.
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
Incase ya’ll haven’t heard, we are having. HUGE Truck & Tractor Pull down here in backwards ass Dixie this weekend!. So if you’re looking to escape the overreach of the yankeetown government... Eagleville,TN is the place!
Hope to see ya’ll, you guys, youins, fellers, hands.....however you say it, there. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2020 09:04AM by Cody. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Thank God drag racing will be starting soon. Done with NASCAR |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
This is a topic that upsets me, for multiple reasons. There are a lot of emotional (not logical) responses that come with this topic, and there are also some well established falsehoods involved. All of this causes me concern for the future of our country.
Let's begin with the flag. The flag in question is not, and was never the flag of the confederate states. It was the battle flag of the army of northern Tennessee. Next, let's address the Civil War itself. While slavery was an issue, it was a minor one, and was not the reason the southern state seceded (or attempted to) from the Union. The Civil War was (get this one folks) all about big cities (and big industry) versus rural America (and farmers). At that time, the northern states were more densely populated (though not so much as today) and had more industry, while the southern states were more rural, and had an agriculture based economy. The northern states (and their representatives) used their larger population clout to enact tariffs on finished goods coming from England, specifically textiles. England responded by placing tariffs on raw materials coming from the United States. Now, the original tariff helped the northern industry, but the retaliation hurt the southern cotton farms. Over time, the southern states came to believe that the only way for them to survive would be to separate themselves from the northern states. Thus secession happened (the southern states attempted to remove themselves from the Union) and the war started. Slavery was used as a political tool as the war progressed. Next, let's speak on slavery. It is wrong, period, end of story. It was abolished more than a generation ago. It is time that we leave it in the past. Now, I do not mean that we should forget about it, far from it. It should be taught in schools, and used as an example of what not to do. What happened to George Floyd was wrong. That does not make Mr. Floyd a hero, or someone special, either. The men who were involved in his death should be held accountable for their actions. However, just as this country has been reminded (correctly) for many years that we cannot judge all muslims for the actions of a few on 9/11, or judge all blacks for the actions of a few, or all hispanics, etc we cannot judge all members of law enforcement, or all white people based on the actions of a few. Just as wrong as what happened to Mr Floyd, are the riots that a few (and I stress this again) bad actors incited to take advantage of the protests. Peaceful protest has been a tenet of this nation since it's founding. Peaceful protest should not include graffiti, vandalism, looting, or violence. Last, but not least, is my view of the unrest in our country. We as a whole have gotten away from what this country is about, what it was founded on, and what made it the superpower that it is. We have become a divided nation (some of that I believe due to the influence of people who stand to gain from weakening the country). We (every citizen of this country) needs to get past the "us versus them" mentality that we currently have. We need to work together. We need to end prejudice based on ethnic differences (and these go both ways). No, I won't say "racism". There is only the Human Race, and we are all members. We have different ethnic histories, different skin tones, but we are all humans, and need to start acting like it. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Well said! Thank you! |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
ABOBB, you just posted the most well thought, articulate, intelligent and pretty accurate post that I have seen on ALL social media in like forever. As Ebert and the other guy would say, "Two thumbs up!". JW |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Very well said, I would add that there were many none black slaves in this country back in those days, we never hear about that because they moved on. To blame slavery for your modern day situation seems counterproductive and immature. To me there needs to be a focus on family and getting Men back into the household. This again is across the board regardless of ethnicity. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Doc Riley
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Dear Confederate flag lovers...
The confederate flag stands for a group of people who no longer wanted to be part of America. They wanted to leave this country and start their own (for one of the worst reasons in the history of mankind). What is more un-American than saying they didn't want to be part of America? They went to war AGAINST America. All you patriots that fly that flag are flying a flag of a group that was against America. The civil war was the darkest and bloodiest period of history in our nation and you're flying the flag of those who opposed America. There is nothing more unpatriotic than that. You may not fly that flag for that reason but that is 100% what that flag stood for. It's not the flag of the US it's the flag against the US. I don't see myself as a Northerner... I see myself as an American. I see the confederate flag plenty here in NY too, generally in trailer parks. Lewis, yeah it's a cool looking flag, no argument from me on that. Yeah, it's cool to be a rebel. And yes, the civil war is part of American history, but that flag is not part of being American. By your flawed logic the American flag must be a part of being British! Since we broke away too, the American Revolution IS part of British history. Only an absolute fool would believe that. Maybe in your mind the flag of Texas is part of being a Mexican as well since large portions of Texas succeeded from Mexico and it's part of their history too. The confederate flag is a flag of secession... a flag of leaving this country. The Swastika is a cool looking symbol and it stood for alot too... it was used by Native Americans and other groups all throughout history (sometimes left-handed, sometime right-handed). I'd encourage you to get a swastika tattooed on you in a visible place and then just tell everybody it's a cool looking symbol and it stands for Native Americans and the sun. Fly your American Sun flag proud and high and pretend it won't be an issue. People can fly whatever flag they want but don't pretend that the confederate flag is patriotic when it's the exact opposite. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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LSS Fan
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I could not care less about the confederate flag. I do care about deflecting blame. The flag and statues are not the problem in black America. Instead of addressing one of the major problems, the percentage of single parent homes for example, we burn the country down because a white cop killed a black guy. Then it turns out the killing had nothing to do with race. It was a jackass cop who had a bad personal history with Floyd. No one cares about that, lets turn George Floyd into some hero, father of the year, pillar of the community, which he was not. He contributed nothing to society, yet we are parading him around in a golden casket.
Its all a joke, and NASCAR taking part in the charade is why they are a joke. If America keeps heading down the path the socialist and liberals are taking us, and history repeats itself, I guess we will find out again who all is, as you said, "Un-American." |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
Jake, this is exactly what I mean about emotional reactions, and false narratives that are accepted as truth. The southern states DID NOT start the civil war. The southern states chose to secede (remove themselves) from the union for reasons that they felt were to their own benefit, much the same as the colonies decided to remove themselves from the British Empire years prior. Slavery was not primary among those reasons. Protection of their rural, agricultural way of life, and the value of their products was. As was their desire to have fair and equal representation in national government compared to the more densely and highly populated north. The union (northern states) started the military campaign in an effort (successful) to force the southern states to remain in the union. The military conflict did not have to happen. The northern states could have calmly accepted the southern decision, and went on about their lives. Maybe the two entities would have reconnected later, or we could be two separate countries. The federal government (and with it the northern states) chose to not allow the union to be divided, and went to war to accomplish that goal. I'll say it again, slavery is and was a horrible thing. I am entirely pleased that it no longer exists in the form that it did in the southern states. However, slavery does still exist in other parts of the world, and even in this country, although in smaller, more hidden ways. It is no longer sanctioned by our government, and is aggressively tracked by law enforcement with the goal of eradication. That does not mean we should forget about it. We should always remember, and use it a an example of what not to do. That also, does not mean we should still be paying for the mistakes of people who are long dead. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Educate yourself
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Causes Of The Civil War
The Events That Caused The American Civil War Causes Of The Civil War Summary States’ Rights The Missouri Compromise The Dred Scott Decision The Abolitionist Movement Abolitionist John Brown John Brown’s Raid On Harpers Ferry Slavery In America Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad Harriet Beecher Stowe Uncle Tom’s Cabin Secessionism Abraham Lincoln’s Election Civil War Causes Articles Explore articles from the History Net archives about Civil War Causes » See all Civil War Causes Articles The Northern and Southern sections of the United States developed along different lines. The South remained a predominantly agrarian economy while the North became more and more industrialized. Different social cultures and political beliefs developed. All of this led to disagreements on issues such as taxes, tariffs and internal improvements as well as states rights versus federal rights. Slavery The burning issue that led to the disruption of the union was the debate over the future of slavery. That dispute led to secession, and secession brought about a war in which the Northern and Western states and territories fought to preserve the Union, and the South fought to establish Southern independence as a new confederation of states under its own constitution. The agrarian South utilized slaves to tend its large plantations and perform other duties. On the eve of the Civil War, some 4 million Africans and their descendants toiled as slave laborers in the South. Slavery was interwoven into the Southern economy even though only a relatively small portion of the population actually owned slaves. Slaves could be rented or traded or sold to pay debts. Ownership of more than a handful of slaves bestowed respect and contributed to social position, and slaves, as the property of individuals and businesses, represented the largest portion of the region’s personal and corporate wealth, as cotton and land prices declined and the price of slaves soared. The states of the North, meanwhile, one by one had gradually abolished slavery. A steady flow of immigrants, especially from Ireland and Germany during the potato famine of the 1840s and 1850s, insured the North a ready pool of laborers, many of whom could be hired at low wages, diminishing the need to cling to the institution of slavery. style=”display:block” data-ad-client=”ca-pub-7459104103345814″ data-ad-slot=”9852498000″ data-ad-format=”auto”> The Dred Scott Decision Dred Scott was a slave who sought citizenship through the American legal system, and whose case eventually ended up in the Supreme Court. The famous Dred Scott Decision in 1857 denied his request stating that no person with African blood could become a U.S. citizen. Besides denying citizenship for African-Americans, it also overturned the Missouri Compromise of 1820, which had restricted slavery in certain U.S. territories. States’ Rights States’ Rights refers To the struggle between the federal government and individual states over political power. In the Civil War era, this struggle focused heavily on the institution of slavery and whether the federal government had the right to regulate or even abolish slavery within an individual state. The sides of this debate were largely drawn between northern and southern states, thus widened the growing divide within the nation. Abolitionist Movement By the early 1830s, those who wished to see that institution abolished within the United States were becoming more strident and influential. They claimed obedience to “higher law” over obedience to the Constitution’s guarantee that a fugitive from one state would be considered a fugitive in all states. The fugitive slave act along with the publishing of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin helped expand the support for abolishing slavery nationwide. Harriet Beecher Stowe‘s Uncle Tom’s Cabin Harriet Beecher Stowe’s anti-slavery novel Uncle Tom’s Cabins was published in serial form in an anti-slavery newspaper in 1851 and in book format in 1852. Within two years it was a nationwide and worldwide bestseller. Depicting the evils of slavery, it offered a vision of slavery that few in the nation had seen before. The book succeeded at its goal, which was to start a wave of anti-slavery sentiment across the nation. Upon meeting Stowe, President Lincoln remarked, “So you’re the little woman who wrote the book that started this great war.” style=”display:block” data-ad-client=”ca-pub-7459104103345814″ data-ad-slot=”9852498000″ data-ad-format=”auto”> The Underground Railroad Some abolitionists actively helped runaway slaves to escape via “the Underground Railroad,” and there were instances in which men, even lawmen, sent to retrieve runaways were attacked and beaten by abolitionist mobs. To the slave holding states, this meant Northerners wanted to choose which parts of the Constitution they would enforce, while expecting the South to honor the entire document. The most famous activist of the underground railroad was Harriet Tubman, a nurse and spy in the Civil War and known as the Moses of her people. The Missouri Compromise Additional territories gained from the U.S.–Mexican War of 1846–1848 heightened the slavery debate. Abolitionists fought to have slavery declared illegal in those territories, as the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 had done in the territory that became the states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin. Advocates of slavery feared that if the institution were prohibited in any states carved out of the new territories the political power of slaveholding states would be diminished, possibly to the point of slavery being outlawed everywhere within the United States. Pro- and anti-slavery groups rushed to populate the new territories. John Brown In Kansas, particularly, violent clashes between proponents of the two ideologies occurred. One abolitionist in particular became famous—or infamous, depending on the point of view—for battles that caused the deaths of pro-slavery settlers in Kansas. His name was John Brown. Ultimately, he left Kansas to carry his fight closer to the bosom of slavery. The Raid On Harper’s Ferry On the night of October 16, 1859, Brown and a band of followers seized the federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry, Virginia (now West Virginia), in what is believed to have been an attempt to arm a slave insurrection. (Brown denied this at his trial, but evidence indicated otherwise.) They were dislodged by a force of U.S. Marines led by Army lieutenant colonel Robert E. Lee. Brown was swiftly tried for treason against Virginia and hanged. Southern reaction initially was that his acts were those of a mad fanatic, of little consequence. But when Northern abolitionists made a martyr of him, Southerners came to believe this was proof the North intended to wage a war of extermination against white Southerners. Brown’s raid thus became a step on the road to war between the sections. style=”display:block” data-ad-client=”ca-pub-7459104103345814″ data-ad-slot=”9852498000″ data-ad-format=”auto”> The Election Of Abraham Lincoln Exacerbating tensions, the old Whig political party was dying. Many of its followers joined with members of the American Party (Know-Nothings) and others who opposed slavery to form a new political entity in the 1850s, the Republican Party. When the Republican candidate Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 presidential election, Southern fears that the Republicans would abolish slavery reached a new peak. Lincoln was an avowed opponent of the expansion of slavery but said he would not interfere with it where it existed. Southern Secession That was not enough to calm the fears of delegates to an 1860 secession convention in South Carolina. To the surprise of other Southern states—and even to many South Carolinians—the convention voted to dissolve the state’s contract with the United States and strike off on its own. Read More In Civil War Times MagazineSubscribe online and save nearly 40%!!! South Carolina had threatened this before in the 1830s during the presidency of Andrew Jackson, over a tariff that benefited Northern manufacturers but increased the cost of goods in the South. Jackson had vowed to send an army to force the state to stay in the Union, and Congress authorized him to raise such an army (all Southern senators walked out in protest before the vote was taken), but a compromise prevented the confrontation from occurring. Perhaps learning from that experience the danger of going it alone, in 1860 and early 1861 South Carolina sent emissaries to other slave holding states urging their legislatures to follow its lead, nullify their contract with the United States and form a new Southern Confederacy. Six more states heeded the siren call: Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. Others voted down secession—temporarily. Fort Sumter On April 10, 1861, knowing that resupplies were on their way from the North to the federal garrison at Fort Sumter in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina, provisional Confederate forces in Charleston demanded the fort’s surrender. The fort’s commander, Major Robert Anderson, refused. On April 12, the Confederates opened fire with cannons. At 2:30 p.m. the following day, Major Anderson surrendered. War had begun. Lincoln called for volunteers to put down the Southern rebellion. Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina and Tennessee, refusing to fight against other Southern states and feeling that Lincoln had exceeded his presidential authority, reversed themselves and voted in favor of session. The last one, Tennessee, did not depart until June 8, nearly a week after the first land battle had been fought at Philippi in Western Virginia. (The western section of Virginia rejected the session vote and broke away, ultimately forming a new, Union-loyal state, West Virginia. Other mountainous regions of the South, such as East Tennessee, also favored such a course but were too far from the support of Federal forces to attempt it.) style=”display:block” data-ad-client=”ca-pub-7459104103345814″ data-ad-slot=”9852498000″ data-ad-format=”auto”> Articles Featuring Causes Of The Civil War From History Net Magazines True Causes of the Civil War Irreconcilable Differences Simmering animosities between North and South signaled an American apocalypse Any man who takes it upon himself to explain the causes of the Civil War deserves whatever grief comes his way, regardless of his good intentions. Having acknowledged that, let me also say I have long believed there is no more concise or stirring accounting for the war than the sentiments propounded by Irish poet William Butler Yeats in “The Second Coming,” some lines of which are included in this essay. Yeats wrote his short poem immediately following the catastrophe of World War I, but his thesis of a great, cataclysmic event is universal and timeless. It is probably safe to say that the original impetus of the Civil War was set in motion when a Dutch trader offloaded a cargo of African slaves at Jamestown, Va., in 1619. It took nearly 250 eventful years longer for it to boil into a war, but that Dutchman’s boatload was at the bottom of it—a fact that needs to be fixed in the reader’s mind from the start. Of course there were other things, too. For instance, by the eve of the Civil War the sectional argument had become so far advanced that a significant number of Southerners were convinced that Yankees, like Negroes, constituted an entirely different race of people from themselves. It is unclear who first put forth this curious interpretation of American history, but just as the great schism burst upon the scene it was subscribed to by no lesser Confederate luminaries than president Jefferson Davis himself and Admiral Raphael Semmes, of CSS Alabama fame, who asserted that the North was populated by descendants of the cold Puritan Roundheads of Oliver Cromwell—who had overthrown and executed the king of England in 1649—while others of the class were forced to flee to Holland, where they also caused trouble, before finally settling at Plymouth Rock, Mass. Southerners on the other hand, or so the theory went, were the hereditary offspring of Cromwell’s enemies, the “gay cavaliers” of King Charles II and his glorious Restoration, who had imbued the South with their easygoing, chivalrous and honest ways. Whereas, according to Semmes, the people of the North had evolved accordingly into “gloomy, saturnine, and fanatical” people who “seemed to repel all the more kindly and generous impulses” (omitting—possibly in a momentary lapse of memory—that the original settlers of other Southern states, such as Georgia, had been prison convicts or, in the case of Louisiana, deportees, and that Semmes’ own wife was a Yankee from Ohio). How beliefs such as this came to pass in the years between 1619 and 1860 reveals the astonishing capacity of human nature to confound traditional a posteriori deduction in an effort to justify what had become by then largely unjustifiable. But there is blame enough for all to go around. Read More in America’s Civil War MagazineSubscribe online and save nearly 40%!!! From that first miserable boatload of Africans in Jamestown, slavery spread to all the settlements, and, after the Revolutionary War, was established by laws in the states. But by the turn of the 19th century, slavery was confined to the South, where the economy was almost exclusively agricultural. For a time it appeared the practice was on its way to extinction. Virginia’s Thomas Jefferson probably summed up the attitude of the day when he defined the South’s “peculiar institution” as a necessary evil, which he and many others believed, or at least hoped, would wither away of its own accord since it was basically wasteful and unproductive. Then along came Eli Whitney with his cotton gin, suddenly making it feasible to grow short-staple cotton that was fit for the great textile mills of England and France. This in turn, 40 years later, prompted South Carolina’s prominent senator John C. Calhoun to declare that slavery—far from being merely a “necessary evil”—was actually a “positive good,” because, among other things, in the years since the gin’s invention, the South had become fabulously rich, with cotton constituting some 80 percent of all U.S. exports. But beneath this great wealth and prosperity, America seethed. Whenever you have two people—or peoples—joined in politics but doing diametrically opposing things, it is almost inevitable that at some point tensions and jealousies will break out. In the industrial North, there was a low, festering resentment that eight of the first 11 U.S. presidents were Southerners—and most of them Virginians at that. For their part, the agrarian Southerners harbored lingering umbrage over the internal improvements policy propagated by the national government, which sought to expand and develop roads, harbors, canals, etc., but which the Southerners felt was disproportionately weighted toward Northern interests. These were the first pangs of sectional dissension. Then there was the matter of the Tariff of Abominations, which became abominable for all concerned. This inflammatory piece of legislation, passed with the aid of Northern politicians, imposed a tax or duty on imported goods that caused practically everything purchased in the South to rise nearly half-again in price. This was because the South had become used to shipping its cotton to England and France and in return receiving boatloads of inexpensive European goods, including clothing made from its own cotton. However, as years went by, the North, particularly New England, had developed cotton mills of its own—as well as leather and harness manufactories, iron and steel mills, arms and munitions factories, potteries, furniture makers, silversmiths and so forth. And with the new tariff putting foreign goods out of financial reach, Southerners were forced to buy these products from the North at what they considered exorbitant costs. Smart money might have concluded it would be wise for the South to build its own cotton mills and its own manufactories, but its people were too attached to growing cotton. A visitor in the 1830s described the relentless cycle of the planters’ misallocation of spare capital: “To sell cotton to buy Negroes—to make more cotton to buy more Negroes—‘ad infinitum.’” Such was the Southern mindset, but the tariff nearly kicked off the war 30 years early because, as the furor rose, South Carolina’s Calhoun, who was then running for vice president of the United States, declared that states—his own state in particular—were under no obligation to obey the federal tariff law, or to collect it from ships entering its harbors. Later, South Carolina legislators acted on this assertion and defied the federal government to overrule them, lest the state secede. This set off the Nullification Crisis, which held in theory (or wishful thinking) that a state could nullify or ignore any federal law it held was not in its best interests. The crisis was defused only when President Andrew Jackson sent warships into Charleston Harbor—but it also marked the first time a Southern state had threatened to secede from the Union. The incident also set the stage for the states’ rights dispute, pitting state laws against the notion of federal sovereignty—an argument which became ongoing into the next century, and the next. “States’ rights” also became a Southern watchword for Northern (or “Yankee”) intrusion on the Southern lifestyle. States’ rights political parties sprang up over the South; one particular example of just how volatile the issue had become was embodied in the decision in 1831 of Nathaniel and Elizabeth Gist (ironically from Union, S.C.) to name their firstborn son “States Rights Gist,” a name he bore proudly until November 30, 1864, when, as a Confederate brigadier general, he was shot and killed leading his men at the Battle of Franklin in Tennessee. Though the tariff question remained an open sore from its inception in 1828 right up to the Civil War, many modern historians have dismissed the impact it had on the growing rift between the two sections of the country. But any careful reading of newspapers, magazines or correspondence of the era indicates that here is where the feud began to fester into hatred. Some Southern historians in the past have argued this was the root cause of the Civil War. It wasn’t, but it was a critical ingredient in the suspicion and mistrust Southerners were beginning to feel about their Northern brethren, and by extension about the Union itself. Not only did the tariff issue raise for the first time the frightening specter of Southern secession, but it also seemed to have marked a mazy kind of dividing line in which the South vaguely started thinking of itself as a separate entity—perhaps even a separate country. Thus the cat, or at least the cat’s paw, was out of the bag. All the resenting and seething naturally continued to spill over into politics. The North, with immigrants pouring in, vastly outnumbered the South in population and thus controlled the House of Representatives. But the U.S. Senate, by a sort of gentleman’s agreement laced with the usual bribes and threats, had remained 50-50, meaning that whenever a territory was admitted as a free state, the South got to add a corresponding slave state—and vice versa. That is until 1820, when Missouri applied for statehood and anti-slavery forces insisted it must be free. Ultimately, this resulted in Congress passing the Missouri Compromise, which decreed that Missouri could come in as a slave state (and Maine as a free state) but any other state created north of Missouri’s southern border would have to be free. That held the thing together for longer than it deserved. In plain acknowledgement that slavery was an offensive practice, Congress in 1808 banned the importation of African slaves. Nevertheless there were millions of slaves living in the South, and their population continued growing. Beginning in the late 18th century, a small group of people in New England concluded that slavery was a social evil, and began to agitate for its abolition—hence, of course, the term “abolitionist.” Read More in Civil War Times MagazineSubscribe online and save nearly 40%!!! Over the years this group became stronger and by the 1820s had turned into a full-fledged movement, preaching abolition from pulpits and podiums throughout the North, publishing pamphlets and newspapers, and generally stirring up sentiments both fair and foul in the halls of Congress and elsewhere. At first the abolitionists concluded that the best solution was to send the slaves back to Africa, and they actually acquired land in what is now Liberia, returning a small colony of ex-bondsmen across the ocean. By the 1840s, the abolitionists had decided that slavery was not simply a social evil, but a “moral wrong,” and began to agitate on that basis. This did not sit well with the churchgoing Southerners, who were now subjected to being called unpleasant and scandalous names by Northerners they did not even know. This provoked, among other things, religious schisms, which in the mid-1840s caused the American Methodist and Baptist churches to split into Northern and Southern denominations. Somehow the Presbyterians hung together, but it was a strain, while the Episcopal church remained a Southern stronghold and firebrand bastion among the wealthy and planter classes. Catholics also maintained their solidarity, prompting cynics to suggest it was only because they owed their allegiance to the pope of Rome rather than to any state, country or ideal. Abolitionist literature began showing up in the Southern mails, causing Southerners to charge the abolitionists with attempting to foment a slave rebellion, the mere notion of which remained high on most Southerners’ anxiety lists. Murderous slave revolts had occurred in Haiti, Jamaica and Louisiana and more recently resulted in the killing of nearly 60 whites during the Nat Turner slave uprising in Virginia in 1831. During the Mexican War the United States acquired enormous territories in the West, and what by then abolitionists called the “slave power” was pressing to colonize these lands. That prompted an obscure congressman from Pennsylvania to submit an amendment to a Mexican War funding bill in 1846 that would have prevented slavery in any territory acquired from Mexico—which became known, after its author, as the Wilmot Proviso. Even though it failed to pass into law, the very act of presenting the measure became a cause célèbre among Southerners who viewed it as further evidence that Northerners were not only out to destroy their “peculiar institution,” but their political power as well. In 1850, to the consternation of Southerners, California was admitted into the Union as a free state—mainly because the Gold Rush miners did not want to find themselves in competition with slave labor. But for the first time it threw the balance of power in the Senate to the Northern states. By then national politics had become almost entirely sectional, a dangerous business, pitting North against South—and vice versa—in practically all matters, however remote. To assuage Southern fury at the admission of free California, Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, which made Northerners personally responsible for the return of runaway slaves. Contrary to its intentions, the act actually galvanized Northern sentiments against slavery because it seemed to demand direct assent to, and personal complicity with, the practice of human bondage. During the decade of the 1850s, crisis seemed to pile upon crisis as levels of anger turned to rage, and rage turned to violence. One of the most polarizing episodes between North and South occurred upon the 1852 publication of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin, which depicted the slave’s life as a relentless nightmare of sorrow and cruelty. Northern passions were inflamed while furious Southerners dismissed the story en masse as an outrageously skewed and unfair portrayal. (After the conflict began it was said that Lincoln, upon meeting Mrs. Stowe, remarked, “So you are the little lady who started this great war?”) In 1854 the Kansas-Nebraska Act, sponsored by frequent presidential candidate Stephen A. Douglas, overturned the Missouri Compromise and permitted settlers in the Kansas Territory to choose for themselves whether they wanted a free or slave state. Outraged Northern abolitionists, horrified at the notion of slavery spreading by popular sovereignty, began raising funds to send anti-slave settlers to Kansas. Equally outraged Southerners sent their own settlers, and a brutish group known as Border Ruffians from slaveholding Missouri went into Kansas to make trouble for the abolitionists. Into this unfortunate mix came an abolitionist fanatic named John Brown riding with his sons and gang. And as the murders and massacres began to pile up, newspapers throughout the land carried headlines of “Bleeding Kansas.” In the halls of Congress, the slavery issue had prompted feuds, insults, duels and finally a divisive gag rule that forbade even discussion or debate on petitions about the issue of slavery. But during the Kansas controversy a confrontation between a senator and a congressman stood out as particularly shocking. In 1856, Charles Sumner, a 45-year-old Massachusetts senator and abolitionist, conducted a three-hour rant in the Senate chamber against the Kansas-Nebraska Act, focusing in particular on 59-year-old South Carolina Senator Andrew Butler, whom he mocked and compared to a pimp, “having taken as his mistress the harlot, Slavery.” Two days later Congressman Preston Brooks, a nephew of the demeaned South Carolinian, appeared beside Sumner’s desk in the Senate and caned him nearly to death with a gold-headed gutta-percha walking stick. By then, every respectable-sized city, North and South, had a half-dozen newspapers and even small towns had at least one or more; and the revolutionary new telegraph brought the latest news overnight or sooner. Throughout the North, the caning incident triggered profound indignation that was transformed into support for a new anti-slavery political party. In the election of 1856, the new Republican Party ran explorer John C. Frémont, the famed “Pathfinder,” for president, and even though he lost, the party had become a force to be reckoned with. In 1857 the U.S. Supreme Court delivered its infamous Dred Scott decision, which elated Southerners and enraged Northerners. The court ruled, in essence, that a slave was not a citizen, or even a person, and that slaves were “so far inferior that they [have] no rights which the white man [is] bound to respect.” Southerners were relieved that they could now move their slaves in and out of free territories and states without losing them, while in the North the ruling merely drove more people into the anti-slavery camp. Then in 1859, John Brown, of Bleeding Kansas notoriety, staged a murderous raid on the U.S. arsenal at Harpers Ferry, Va., hoping to inspire a general slave uprising. The raid was thwarted by U.S. troops, and Brown was tried for treason and hanged; but when it came out that he was being financed by Northern abolitionists, Southern anger was profuse and furious—especially after the Northern press elevated Brown to the status of hero and martyr. It simply reinforced the Southern conviction that Northerners were out to destroy their way of life. As the crucial election of 1860 approached, there arose talk of Southern secession by a group of “fire-eaters”— influential orators who insisted Northern “fanatics” intended to free slaves “by law if possible, by force if necessary.” Hectoring abolitionist newspapers and Northern orators (known as Black, or Radical Republicans) provided ample fodder for that conclusion. The 1850s drew to a close in near social convulsion and the established political parties began to break apart—always a dangerous sign. The Whigs simply vanished into other parties; the Democrats split into Northern and Southern contingents, each with its own slate of candidates. A Constitutional Union party also appeared, looking for votes from moderates in the Border States. As a practical matter, all of this assured a victory for the Republican candidate, Abraham Lincoln, who was widely, if wrongly, viewed in the South as a rabid abolitionist. With the addition of Minnesota (1858) and Oregon (1859) as free states, the Southerners’ greatest fears were about to be realized—complete control of the federal government by free-state, anti-slavery politicians. With the vote split four ways, Lincoln and the Republicans swept into power in November 1860, gaining a majority of the Electoral College, but only a 40 percent plurality of the popular vote. It didn’t matter to the South. In short order, always pugnacious South Carolina voted to secede from the Union, followed by six other Deep South states that were invested heavily in cotton. Much of the Southern apprehension and ire that Lincoln would free the slaves was misplaced. No matter how distasteful he found the practice of slavery, the overarching philosophy that drove Lincoln was a hard pragmatism that did not include the forcible abolition of slavery by the federal government—for the simple reason that he could not envision any political way of accomplishing it. But Lincoln, like a considerable number of Northern people, was decidedly against allowing slavery to spread into new territories and states. By denying slaveholders the right to extend their boundaries, Lincoln would in effect also be weakening their power in Washington, and over time this would almost inevitably have resulted in the abolition of slavery, as sooner or later the land would have worn out. But that wasn’t bad enough for the Southern press, which whipped up the populace to such a pitch of fury that Lincoln became as reviled as John Brown himself. These influential journals, from Richmond to Charleston and myriad points in between, painted a sensational picture of Lincoln in words and cartoons as an arch-abolitionist—a kind of antichrist who would turn the slaves loose to rape, murder and pillage. For the most part, Southerners ate it up. If there is a case to be made on what caused the Civil War, the Southern press and its editors would be among the first in the dock. It goes a long way in explaining why only one in three Confederate soldiers were slaveholders, or came from slaveholding families. It wasn’t their slaves they were defending, it was their homes against the specter of slaves-gone-wild. Interestingly, many if not most of the wealthiest Southerners were opposed to secession for the simple reason that they had the most to lose if it came to war and the war went badly. But in the end they, like practically everyone else, were swept along on the tide of anti-Washington, anti-abolition, anti-Northern and anti-Lincoln rhetoric. To a lesser extent, the Northern press must accept its share of blame for antagonizing Southerners by damning and lampooning them as brutal lash-wielding torturers and heartless family separators. With all this back and forth carrying on for at least the decade preceding war, by the time hostilities broke out, few either in the North or the South had much use for the other, and minds were set. One elderly Tennessean later expressed it this way: “I wish there was a river of fire a mile wide between the North and the South, that would burn with unquenchable fury forevermore, and that it could never be passable to the endless ages of eternity by any living creature.” The immediate cause of Southern secession, therefore, was a fear that Lincoln and the Republican Congress would have abolished the institution of slavery—which would have ruined fortunes, wrecked the Southern economy and left the South to contend with millions of freed blacks. The long-term cause was a feeling by most Southerners that the interests of the two sections of the country had drifted apart, and were no longer mutual or worthwhile. The proximate cause of the war, however, was Lincoln’s determination not to allow the South to go peacefully out of the Union, which would have severely weakened, if not destroyed, the United States. There is the possibility that war might have been avoided, and a solution worked out, had there not been so much mistrust on the part of the South. Unfortunately, some of the mistrust was well earned in a bombastic fog of hatred, recrimination and outrageous statements and accusations on both sides. Put another way, it was well known that Lincoln was anti-slavery, but both during his campaign for office and after his election, he insisted it was never his intention to disturb slavery where it already existed. The South simply did not believe him. Read More in Military History MagazineSubscribe online and save nearly 40%!!! The Lincoln administration was able to quell secession movements in several Border States—Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and what would become West Virginia—by a combination of politics and force, including suspension of the Bill of Rights. But when Lincoln ordered all states to contribute men for an army to suppress the rebellion South Carolina started by firing on Fort Sumter, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina also joined the Confederacy rather than make war on their fellow Southerners. “Because of incompatibility of temper,” a Southern woman was prompted to lament, “we have hated each other so. If we could only separate, a ‘separation a l’agreable,’ as the French say it, and not have a horrid fight for divorce.” Things had come a long way during the nearly 250 years since the Dutchman delivered his cargo of African slaves to the wharf at Jamestown, but in 1860 almost everyone agreed that a war wouldn’t last long. Most thought it would be over by summertime. Article originally published in the September 2010 issue of America’s Civil War. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
I didn't read all of that, but did scan it.
I will admit to mis-remembering the events of Fort Sumter. The rest of the reading, carries a decidedly anti-southern slant. Let's remember that history is written by the victors. A quick look at the timeline of the Civil War shows the following. Attack on Ft Sumtner April 12-13, 1861 Slavery outlawed in all US territories June 19, 1862 Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation Speech September 22, 1862. If we follow the story that slavery was such a primary cause of the Civil War, as written by the victors, why did it take the US over a year after the start of the war to outlaw the practice, and another 3 months after that for Lincoln (a great president BTW) to make his proclamation freeing all slaves? The articles quoted above do address the financial and states rights issues that helped initiate the horrible conflict between states. Those issues were far more likely to have caused a war, or even for a state to want to secede from the union (view South Carolina's earlier threat to do so, over states rights and financial issues), rather than a issue concerning slavery. On top of what I've already said. I will once again state that slavery is a horrible practice. However, an issue that much of history does not address, is that most often (not always, but most often) slaves were treated better than their free northern counterparts. Slaves were considered valued property, and treated as such. (Still a offensive practice to consider another Human being to be property). In the north, prejudice still existed, and free black citizens struggled. They were considered a lower class, even by their slavery hating northern neighbors. Simple evidence of this is that black's did not have the right to vote, until 1870. Were they so well treated and considered as equals by the north, why did they not have that right prior to the war? |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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To ABOBB
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If you read it it does say what you have expressed. It was not all about slavery, but as you said they wanted to protect themselves and what they thought were states rights, beyond just slavery.
Either way over 650,000 people were killed during the Civil War. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Mr. Shake my head
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I don't want to get off topic and I feel that this discussion has so I will make two posts in case Jake would like to make some adjustments to what is posted.
Post #1 The original post asked a question as to how we as an entity could pick up some new fans due to the actions of NASCAR. My opinion is that is a great idea. The majority of the former NASCAR fans that are in an uproar are middle lower class blue collar workers that are passionate about their hobbies. What is wrong with that??? Don't we all like to think that we are passionate about pulling? These are the class of fans that don't mind sitting in the hot sun for hours at a time listening to the roar of an engine pass them by. All they ask for in return is the ability to drink beer, spend buttloads of money supporting their favorite driver and go to a few races a year. Think about it, they are already used to being gouged by NASCAR so a weekend pull would be cheap for them. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I never said the South started a civil war. I said they went to war AGAINST America (they knew what secession would cause and they knew the North would never allow secession). They took up arms AGAINST this great nation. You can pretend they were defending themselves but they left... they filed for divorce... they quit on this country. They choose not to be part of America. America was forced to correct a wrong, and an insurrection. The South tried to lead an insurrection and ultimate failed.
As I said, I don't care one bit if NASCAR bans a flag or a symbol (I think it's stupid) and I don't really care about people wearing or flying the flag (or part of the flag... or the symbol...) that's their (ignorant) choice. I'm not arguing from emotion... just fact about what the flag stood for... secession. Anti-American secession. That is 100% a historical fact (not emotion). People now days pretend it stands for being some cool rebel but it stood for Anti-American secession. I'm not talking about reasons for the Civil war... or tariffs, or 3/5 clause, or urban vs rural... I'm not talking about Black vs. White... I'm not talking about Civil Rights... I'm not talking about George Floyd... I'm not even talking about how offensive the confederate symbol is to the majority of black Americans... I'm simply talking about a flag and a symbol of Anti-American secession. It's that simple. The confederate flag and any symbolism related to it is not patriotism! Instead of discussing reasons for the war please defend how the confederate flag/symbol stands for the US... Please defend how flying that flag/symbol is patriotic.... Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Make Me Proud
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Mr. Morgan
I am so glad you wish to choose to erase history. People are choosing to erase what they do not like and make up new stuff so they call all feel warm and fuzzy and say they did something. That is BS. So erase the past so we can all relive it and again |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Please explain how I'm erasing history in ANY of my posts in this thread.
I'm not talking about slavery. I'm not talking about the civil war. I'm not talking about racial diversity. I'm not talking about civil rights. I'm not talking about protests. I'm not talking about riots. I'm not talking about looting. Those are all interesting topics to discuss but not on this page. Save those for your Facebook rants or Twitter posts or some politically driven website... Not here. I'm simply saying that it's dumb for NASCAR to ban the Confederate symbol, but it's also dumb for people to use that anti-American symbol. That's all I'm saying. That's it. I'm not discussing the History of race relations or anything like that. I'm not discussing virtue signaling or pandering or any of the politically charged rhetoric. I'm not erasing history and I'm not re-writing history because I'm simply talking about the history of confederate symbolism and that specific flag/symbol/logo/image. All that other stuff is a different topic for a different website, this is a tractor pulling website. Here's how this NASCAR decision ties to tractor pulling: Pulling should not ban a symbol or a flag, no matter how stupid that symbol or flag is. People should have the right to express their opinion on their own shirts and vehicles how they choose. However, people should also think twice before they express themselves on their shirts of vehicles. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. We had a similar discussion a few years back about the name of a certain AC tractor(s). Some thought the name was OK some thought is was inappropriate. They had the right to name it anything they wanted, but that doesn't mean it was a good choice. The Confederate symbols are Anti-American at their core. They may seem like cool ways to say that you're an outlaw or a rebel but ultimately they are symbols of a time when people wanted to destroy this union... these UNITED States. There are plenty of ways to say you're a rebel with without using the confederate symbolism. There are many groups today that would like to destroy the United States and they are no more patriots than any other group that has tried to divide this country. We need to hold tight to what unites us and the Confederacy was the most divide time in our history... don't hold tight to Anti-American division. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Paull
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History makes us All who we are,--- people from different faiths, cultures and countries, History sets presidents over emotions(causes emotions),and makes lists of events,places, facts and much more, History is to be retained and honored, right or wrong,all the people flying a flag, protesting and looting,setting fires or attending a funeral, have a History, and most have issues that they would not like to be made front page public, History does, will and has repeated itself, acts and choices cause history,-Period, this past several weeks have made history because some want to Live in the past, ok, -- time has passed, erase Floyd's death, destroy his memories, pretend it was not important, change past history, I think not, it is a strong and powerful tool to see how and what we did -- failed or succeeded.I disrespect History and the people that made it yrs ago is a dangerous tactic to control and conquer, no different than what the people(protests,fires and destruction) are doing to the world now, two wrongs do not make a right. We are supposed to have freedoms to speak, rally,protest(not burn or destroy) and those freedoms include flying a flag of choice, I flew two flags (one with stripes and stars, one with a big X) on my tractor trailer one summer, attended many pulls, only one person said anything negative. History is a story told, - Period, not something we should change or Forget,History is part of us, like it or not, Without memories and emotions and feelings, - how do we make better choices and make better History, many rioters should think about that History (negative,-- so let's erase it now), why wait. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Just Sayin’
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Honestly, I’m tired of being told who or what I am and what I can and can’t do. What ever happened to freedom? Each and every person who is telling “us” (Americans) that we are this or that - are labeling each and everyone as sexist, racist, privileged, homophobic and on and on. These people need to look in the mirror, do they not? I mean, who would even WANT to be a police officer today?!?! It’s so insane right now, they want to change the names of military bases and are canceling police shows COPS and LIVE PD on television. I would say more than 60-70% of this is media and social media driven. There always has to be a BIG story.....until the NEXT big story. Most of these people are cowards and don’t have the guts to do or say anything to a person 1 on 1. But they hide behind a camera or phone and just shout you down or make you feel like you’re such a bad person....pick a reason.
I imagine many of you reading this worked very long and hard to get where you are today. I also feel that many of us have a general respect for our fellow man - and this where we get taken advantage of. They prey on our feelings and compassion to main gains to satisfy them for 5 minutes and then they need something else. And I’m not talking race here, I’m talking the “snowflake/Gen X” crowd. You can riot or protest but cannot go to a restaurant....,seems about right. Things are so screwed up in America today. I love my country. I served my country and my state in the National Guard. I hate to see what is happening each and everyday as my freedoms are taken away one by one. I don’t like the protests, but it’s their right. But, you cannot eliminate the police. I have a right to bear arms (for now) - they take away your guns AND the police, that’s a great idea, SMH! I generally feel, or still hold out hope, that a majority of Americans are tired of having all of this shoved down our throat 24 hours a day. I know who and what I am. And what the PC mafia and liberal progressives think if me as a privileged person, so be it. I’ve worked since I was 11 years old, and everything I have - I paid for with the blood, sweat, and tears from my body-not welfare. 2-3 jobs at a time for a couple years even. I’m pretty sure if I “wanted” to fly a rebel flag, I got that right, don’t I? I don’t and won’t, but who are you to tell me? Stop bowing to the mob. Stand your ground. Stuck up for your beliefs. You have rights too. Now, open up the damn pulling tracks!!! |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I noticed Just Sayin' that you are pretty quick to call people cowards but you didn't sign your name to your post. Looks to me that you want to hide behind a screen name. If you believe it why not put your name on it? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2020 03:52PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Just Sayin’
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Dick,
Point taken. My only reason is I work in the new corporate America - so, keeping anonymous protects those who I’m associated with. That’s how you have to conduct business these days. And that’s a damn shame, but it’s the truth. Personally, don’t care - I stand up for what I believe but a person has to consider his associates. I speak for myself but when you represent a company or corporation........you have to put you mr PC Professional hat on. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Fan 2
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Good post! Only comments I have to add is some of the worst treatment I've ever seen of a black "man" in this country, came from a black WOMAN boss we worked for! I'll leave the details out but were it a white boss there would have been legal problems! (and it was a Federal Govt job)
Also, what other country treats blacks as good as America? Some of the worst countries for black folks are countries run by black folks!! (Uganda for example) I have many black friends, none of them support this nonsense going on right now! All of them have jobs, some of them more than one, and are all hard workers! |
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Correcting some facts
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JY1979
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Slavery was not abolished in the north in 1805, the importation of slaves was and if you read the CSA Constitution you will find they too did not allow the importation of slaves. While the importation of slaves was stopped by both the north and south, the slave trade itself was not outlawed until the 13th amendment passage in January of 1865 ratified later in the year of 1865. I spent my years in college majoring in US History. The one thing you have to remember about history is the winners write the narrative. For instance, we will talk about the killing of the Jews in Nazi Germany, but turn a blind eye to Manifest Destiny and the genocide of Native Americans. There is so much misinformation in this thread it’s to much to unravel. Lincoln didn’t free the slaves, the Emancipation Proclamation was an act of inscription. If you want some good reading and are truly interested in this subject I would start with these books:
The South Was Right Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South Southern by The Grace of God Now moving on, if you are a true American, why do you care what flag people fly. You either believe in freedom or you don’t. Personally the rainbow flag is offensive to me because I believe in the structure of family God outlined, however; I believe it is the gay community’s right to fly it and my right not to look at. Bottom line my rights don’t end where your feelings begin. I find the black panthers just as offensive as the Klan, not going to bother them though. If you don’t like something don’t look at it and move on. Freedom is for everybody, but with that comes an understanding I’m not going to like everything and not everyone is going to like me. |
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Re: Correcting some facts
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day later
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Well, the snowflakes got their way, looked on ebay where there was hundreds of rebel flags listed in the past,NONE are listed now. |
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Re: ????
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Paull
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Very simply as a Civil society we NEED laws,rules, guidelines and Fair judiciary actions, - we are all born with Original Sin and commit actions that need to be stopped, collared, challenged and limited, ------this applies to ALL, that share the wealth, freedoms, privileges and joys of Life within this society.Social morality is not new.However as History shows,- many feel that they can not abide by the standards for social existence and the common good. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
To everyone posting... let's get back on topic. The original topic was about picking up fans due to NASCAR banning the confederate logo/flag. Let's stick to that topic. There are probably lots of great places to post about all sorts of other current events but this page is primarily tractor pulling related. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Who thought we would ever miss all the bickering about too many classes or how much a llss should weight or who’s semi is cheating
Come on guys enough is enough talking about this mess is giving them the attention they want |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Just Sayin’
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Keep politics out of the sport. Don’t overreach and stay in your lane. People want a break from the “world” and all of it’s problems. And that’s where entertainment USED to come in. People want to sit and enjoy a show/race/game/pull without being reminded how crazy life is today. I think we’ve all had an incredibly “interesting” 2020, to say the least. And, I believe truck and tractor pulling CAN actually be a great stress reliever to the masses, if we were able to actually have an event. Yes, it’s great on tv/computer, but we all know - it’s soooo much better in person. So, we all need to take advantage of whatever events DO happen this season. Put in a great show and compete as hard as we can. I think there is an opportunity to grow the fan base.....we just need events to start!! |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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General Lee. 01
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I grew up watching the Dukes of hazard. I thought it was the best show ever. I can't remember ever thinking that the rebel flag on the general was bad or racist .
IDK. My folks loved watching me watch it. It was Excitement,! If any one on here remembers that show..as I did when I was kid...I think it made me kind of what I am today. I looked forward to that type of show. Rebels...I guess...motor heads...fast cars...running from the cops ... Clean .. If I read the Morgan's post...they probably never watched the show..probably thought it was disgraceful. Idk..or it wasn't that big of a deal back then. Idk I don't have an opinion for them. My opioion on this pull off page . In time it will dissolve itself., . Somebody new will come up with something better ..more so for the people that love motorsports. The forsale page keeps it alive...for viewers...not to make Morgan's money..I understand they don't make anything on here..but what draws the hits to look at it .is the FORSALE That will go away..in time..somebody somewhere ,will do it ....bigger better ..and less family oriented and restricted. No pun. If Morgan's could do it they would . ..pull of is losing control and its out of there control... Seriously What do you leave posted ....what don't u leave posted... Honestly...the General Lee was "Politically correct." And a great show. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
If you want to get back on topic here we go, with another question:
Do you want to gain fans for pulling based on the quality of the entertainment it provides OR because of a cultural decision that a motorsports sanctioning body made? I know my answer! This is not a new issue, it has been discussed here before! NASCAR went from an exciting sport with great drivers, great personalities and great racing to a watered-down lifeless politically correct product. They bled thousands of fans and spectators since Dale Sr. died and havent done anything to stop the bleeding! Any moves they have made in the last week should have been decided years ago if they are acting in the interest of virtue rather than pandering to the Twitter mob....in my opinion. The symbolism of the Confederate flag has has opposing sides for 160 years now and it seems it wont change anytime soon. Bryan Lively - 
    Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2020 05:17PM by Bryan Lively. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I watched the Dukes of Hazard growing up. I loved it. It was probably one of my favorite TV shows as a kid, maybe my favorite. Glad we agree on that.
As I said, most people think the flag is cool and most people think it's a way to show that they are rebels or renegades or outlaws or whatever else they want to associate with that logo. Believe me, I completely understand that, it's a cool looking logo and it didn't bother me until I sat and thought about what it truly stood for. I don't believe that the vast majority of people fly that flag or use that logo with any malice or hate or anything like that. I just think most people have never really sat and thought about what that flag truly stands for. It looks cool and they're rebels and that's as much thought as some people put into it. I'm just stating that it definitely doesn't stand for America, people want to pretend it does but it was the most un-American point in American history. What people want to think the flag stands for and what it truly stood for are two very, very, very different things. Again, feel free to fly your rebel flag, it's your choice and thankfully you've still got some freedom in this great nation of ours, but don't pretend that flag is patriotic. You can pretend you're a rebel but don't mistake the origin of that logo. Does it make people who fly the rebel flag bad people? No. No way. Again the vast majority of people who fly the flag don't to it to be hurtful or un-American, they do it because they never really stopped to think too deeply about where that logo came from and what it truly means. It's actually Ironic, some of the most patriotic Americans are proud to display a flag with un-American origins, what could be more ironic than that! Most people will never take the time to do self-reflection. It doesn't make them bad people, just uninformed about the logos true meaning/origin. As for this site, sure it will go away. I've done it since 1997 and I never imagined I'd be doing this for 23 years. How long will it go? I have no idea. If somebody did it bigger and better it would be great. I love this sport and if somebody can do a better job running a pulling website I encourage them to do so and promote the sport as best they can. If it betters the sport then go for it. I just want the sport to survive, I don't do this because I love writing/typing, I don't do it because I love to lose money, and I definitely don't do it because I have such an abundance of spare time (it's 1AM as I type this). I do it because I think it benefits this motorsport. I share opinions that some people like and some people don't. I'm not bought by any sponsor and I call balls and strikes as I see them. If I've made one person think differently about the rebel flag then great. If not a single solitary person is willing to take a unbiased look at the flag or done some introspection that's fine too it won't change my stance and it won't change what the flag truly stands for. To me it's like smoking, I don't like it, I don't do it, but I have friends that do. You're free to buy a pack of cigarettes of your choice and smoke until your hearts content, just don't try and convince me that it's healthy or good because you're fooling neither of us. Much like the Dukes of Hazard was fun as a kid...I've been a fan of pulling since a very young age. For this sport to survive it needs more kids. No kids... then this sport has no future. Times are changing, the Dukes of Hazard isn't drawing new kids into fast cars by jumping river beds and streams anymore. We can't stay living in 1983 anymore. Some things change in society whether we like it or not. ALL motorsports need kids if they plan on having any legitimate sort of future. That's a good enough reason to keep this site family friendly and that stance will not change, you may think it limits this page to not allow certain language, I think it benefits the sport in the long run, we need more kids to fall in love with it and go to pulls with their Dad like I did. As for less restricted: I simply ask that people stick as close to possible to tractor pulling and keep the language in check. Any pulling related topic is open for discussion, I don't care if it's about pump timing on an out of field class or an unlimited Mod all discussion is welcome. If decent language is too restrictive then I guess I'm too restrictive. Again, we need kids to love this sport and we need to have a place where anyone and everyone can come and chat. I guess I'm unaware of the too many restrictions since you can read the entire list of rules for this page in about 15 seconds. The restrictions are minimal and really, general common decency is all that's required. Side note: you say the page is too restrictive, yet in the next sentence you say that pulloff is out of control and losing control. So which is it? As for chatting here on the Forum, yes, the For Sale page is a great feature of this page, I here that often. Recently one of the moderators of the page made a similar remark and downplayed the Forum. I guess what I find funny is how many people/pullers/fans/etc... down play the importance of this forum yet when I go to a pull or talk with a puller I seem to hear comments from this forum quoted directly back to me. Some claim not to read it yet everyone can mysteriously seem to quote it. They must be learning it through osmosis since it's right next to the For Sale page! Thanks for your comments but I'll be sticking with my restrictive and family oriented rules and guidelines and I'll continue to keep plugging along at my steady pace until I someday run out of steam. Thanks to those who are honest about using the page and thanks to all those who share info back and forth and who can stay on topic and add to discussions, it truly makes our motorsport better. If you want to talk about blacks or race or riots or looting then please find a different place to post, there's plenty of sites dedicated to that. If you want to talk about the rebel flag related to motorsports (especially pulling) please feel free. I know some pullers still love it, despite it's origin. I've still yet to hear anyone defend how the confederate flag/symbol stands for the US... how flying that flag/symbol is patriotic... The best defense of the flag so far is the Dukes of Hazard (which was awesome and a truly iconic American TV show) but it's probably not he firmest ground to make a defensive stance on. . Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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If the protests/riots are American, then so is the Dixie Confederate flag. What was the south doing? They were protesting against a government with which they adamantly disagreed. They took extreme measures to get away from what they disagreed with. We cannot change history. We can try to ignore it, but, it’s still there no matter what. Trying to remove the confederate flag is absurd. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
This is exactly what the flag meant nothing more and nothing less a protest against the Government may be just around the corner again Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2020 02:16PM by Lewis Conner. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Riots are not American they are a disgrace to this nation, but that's a different topic for a different website and that's why I haven't written about them until this sentence (I hope we can agree on that). Protests (peaceful) are, and always have been, part of America and are protected by the US Constitution but that's a different topic for a different website too (I hope we can agree on that too). The South wasn't protesting the Union, they left it... very different. They formed a separate nation that was not America. That is the very definition of Not American. No longer bound by our Constitution. Again, the very definition of Not American. If leaving America and then raising up arms against America is a great American thing to do then you must consider the ISIS Bride Hoda Muthana to be a true American (I'm sure she would argue that she was "protesting" some oppression that she felt here in America and then raised up arms to just defend herself). It's clearly nonsense to try to defend her and it's nonsense to defend secession as American (they are as close a parallel as can be). The confederate flag is a symbol of another nation, not America. The defense regarding how the confederate flag/symbol stands for the US or how flying that flag/symbol is patriotic is now: it was just a protest! Sorry but I think the Dukes of Hazard defense was much stronger. Again, it's fine to put a flag of another nation on a pulling vehicle that's a personal choice and should not be banned but the confederate flag was never a flag of this country and it wasn't just some "protest". I know this is s difficult topic to discuss and there are many who are quite set in their ways and have an emotional attachment to a flag and that's fine. I also know there are some who are fired up and heading out to get their rebel flag ink just to prove that "the man" won't keep them down... in America you have the right to offend and be as ignorant or informed as you choose. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
No Jake what started out as a protest ended up in War and if all these protest thats been ending up in riots dont stop bad things are going to start happening the American people are starting to become fed up |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Lewis. The civil war did not start out as a protest. A group southern states seceded from the union. Not hardly the same thing. They broke away from the United States and formed the Confederate States of America. Their own army, congress, president, currency. Not a protest. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
They protested for several years and failed then decided to leave the union |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Man we need to get Pullin quick, we all getting testy and at each others throats here soon!
BB |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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?
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I guess what gets me is that people want to pick an choose what part of history is important to remember, History is just that History, cant go back an change it or alter it, IT HAPPENED!!!! Now that doesn't mean that we as a society goes back to those ways in today's world, HISTORY is what molded the world - my personal opinion is times were much much better 50yrs ago than today -- as Lewis mentioned earlier, gay marriage and the rainbow flag IS WRONG PERIOD !!!! I love the American flag and the Confederate flag, i never think of slavery or anything remotely to owning or selling anyone when i see the Confederate flag !!! But im sure like so many times before this post will get deleted because some moderator will find it politically incorrect IN THEIR EYES !!! |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I can say that I remember Jake just loving the Dukes of Hazzard. I think he even had a t-shirt and hat that he just loved. And as far as the above post. I certainly see no reason to delete it and I'm hoping others don't either. My tolerance level on deleting post is swearing and taking the Lord's name in vain. And to get back to the real question that started this thread, how can pulling pick up fans that NASCARhas alienated with their Confederate flag stand. I have stopped watching NASCAR a couple years ago because frankly it's boring. Their points chase, the drivers are boring and just talking heads, and the show lacks excitement. So can pulling not make those same mistakes. Growth for pulling depends on young people taking an interest in the sport not only is competitors but also fans. NASCAR is boring and monster trucks are just a show with no real competition nor points races. Neither one of those models are the ones that tractor pulling can choose. So that ask a whole bunch of questions, are there too many classes, are there not enough classes, are there too many shows, are there not enough shows. NASCAR fan numbers have been dropping at an alarming rate for the last several years, is it because of the product or is it because Motorsports fans have so many options with technology today? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2020 12:08AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
quote=?]
I guess what gets me is that people want to pick an choose what part of history is important to remember, History is just that History, cant go back an change it or alter it, IT HAPPENED!!!! Now that doesn't mean that we as a society goes back to those ways in today's world, HISTORY is what molded the world - my personal opinion is times were much much better 50yrs ago than today -- as Lewis mentioned earlier, gay marriage and the rainbow flag IS WRONG PERIOD !!!! I love the American flag and the Confederate flag, i never think of slavery or anything remotely to owning or selling anyone when i see the Confederate flag !!! But im sure like so many times before this post will get deleted because some moderator will find it politically incorrect IN THEIR EYES !!![/quote] I'm not talking about slavery (maybe you should re-read my comments). You've proved my point that people can't stay on topic with this thread. I'm talking about a symbol the represents an Anti-American uprising, the Confederacy. Today, there are many on the left that want a new Anti-American uprising. There are may on the left that want to destroy our country and break into pieces (look up Russian cold war plot to split America into pieces). There's a communist and socialist movement afoot to weaken our nation. You're clinging to a symbol that sought to do the exact same thing. It's no different than illegal immigrants coming to the US and flying their flag, crazy leftists flying a socialist/hammer and sickle flag, BLM flying their revolutionary flag... it's their right, that's Freedom afterall, but it's not the flag of this nation, it was an Anti-US flag. You have the right to put any of them in a pulling vehicle or fly them at a pulling event but think about what they really mean, not just what they mean to you. Again, some people have made that logo into something different in their own hearts, but it's not true to its origin. Again if you want to talk about gay marriage or slavery find a different page to post those comments on. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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?
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Didn't say you did say anything about slavery, but that's what EVERYONE has connected the Confederate Flag to be, its not all about that part of history but everyone thinks thats the only thing it represented, and fyi in your last post you didn't stay on topic-- never said anything about nascar or its fans, just sayn-- i guess with some its --- dont do as i do, do asi say !!! |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
FYI... I wrote "You have the right to put any of them on a pulling vehicle or fly them at a pulling event but think about what they really mean (to other people... you know... other FANS), not just what they mean to you."
Sorry I didn't include the words in red the first time... I thought it was clear enough that I meant "to other people" since only people read this page, and only people derive meaning from things. That seems pretty on-topic for a pulling page. You're making this political and I'm just talking about origins and original meaning. I've done my best to keep politics and current events completely out of this discussion. That's being on-topic. I agree that the flag isn't completely about slavery (glad we can agree on that), infact I think I've mentioned that in almost EVERY SINGLE post I've made on this thread... repeatedly, that's why I haven't discussed slavery. Infact I've only made the argument that the confederate flag stands for Anti-American secession, so I guess I'm not the EVERYONE your ranting about. EDIT: Your premise: The flag is about more than people think... It's not just about slavery. My premise: the flag is about more than people think... it's about an Anti-American secession too. We're both saying the flag is about more than people think... you just don't want to look at ALL the bad that flag represents too. I'll look at the good and the bad and the bad is really, really bad. I think there are better ways to represent the good. (Much like my continued swastika example, it has good meaning for some groups through history but it's been tainted beyond repair by the Nazi's) The confederate flag is a very tainted flag, but the tainting started right from it's origin. Many of us have overlooked that tainting because it fit's our narrative. Again, I dont think pulling (or NASCAR) should ban it but I think people should be more thoughtful before they decide to use it. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Paull
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Jake, we can never please anyone !!! I tell ya, - some people's kids. Many of us seem to not Kare a lot about what others think. Just look at the news, well that is not a good idea either.Most kids nodays look at their phone, device or screen 24/7 - so if pulling is not on a device I think we may not have younger people interested in pulling, Nascar was never mu forte, just left turn and close calls and crashes at the end, not racing, - but bashing.We all have differing opinions and good for that.When I was in the military helping keep the freedoms so many take for granted, I did not have many choices. Fans want something different now than thirty yrs ago. |
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I apologize to the Morgan's
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General lee .01
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To the Morgan's,
I sincerely apologize for my post . I re read it , "what I wrote " and read your replies afterwards. It really didn't come across the way I wanted it to. And for that I apologize again. I made some very poor comments about the pull off site . It was a perfect analogy of the Dukes of Hazzard ...and 1983. ..along with the kids . I was a fan of Dale Sr..and just don't watch nascar anymore either. Thank you ..for the freedom on this page |
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Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Thanks, but for me no apology was needed. The page is there for everyone to express their opinions. I realize that the topic alone is very stressful for everyone. And please continue to use the page for your voice to be heard. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2020 12:25PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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keep it real
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as far as I see it everyone has a good point but I would like to know how all this crazy is going to get paid for they stole everything but the work boots from foot locker |
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Re: Time to take the NASCAR fans
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Truth
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How will you take the fans away without having pulls to begin with? One here or there won't do it. The bottom line is all these "governors", and i'm from Illinois the land of bad governors, edicts mean nothing... They are not laws.... We as a society let them get a figure hold on us by voting in these idiots. |
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