02:37:39pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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KnowledgeFromPA
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Is the longtime organization in its death roll? Rumor is there is no money for operating expenses and one of the options for membership is to donate it to WPI for operating expenses. See options C&D [ntpapull.com]
Also see in option C they are keeping 25% of your money for production fees or as its put to fund the operations. Also says if you roll over it will be applied towards 2021 which one could infer an increase in membership is coming. Also heard money is so tight two employees are taking a 20% pay cut and the rest of the office staff is taking a 40% pay cut. As much as DPS thumped his chest about being a good businessman how are they in this financial shape? How do you not have a fund set up for emergency funds? No, none of us ever expected a pandemic, but no rainy day fund at all? Then to tell your staff we are cutting your wages by 40%? Then once again asking the pullers to help them out? It’s a different era than 1985 and there are other options now, will they bounce back? Time will tell |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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nothing new
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They are one of literally thousands of businesses that are in serious financial trouble through this mess. This shouldn't be a surprise. You state "how could they have no rainy day fund".....how many people do? Not saying you shouldn't, but with the preaching of modern business world to run "lean" this is what happens......everything thing is stripped and thinned just to get to the next day. Many farms/households are run the same way or worse. It's just where society is.
As for the 20 and 40% cuts.......that is exactly what has happened in my place of employment. That's no surprise at all. Start polling small and medium sized business to see how many others have this same thing happening. Sitting and salivating at the demise of a national organization isn't something to be proud of.....it won't help the sport any and to speculate also sends the wrong message to people. I'm sure they will pull through and life will go on. Let's try to look at the glass as "half full". |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
This^^^^^^^^^ 100% |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Pay attention
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"Lean" just means to take any profit and distribute it to the shareholders or ownership. It also means hammer your opex to do the same. Every business should have reserve cash. I work with risk management and planning for a Fortune 100 company, an event like Covid 19 is on their risk register, put there by my hand, and we had a plan in place before anybody knew what bat soup was.. We're feeling it but not laying people off or forcing pay cuts.
Look at all the companies that went running for PPP loans in your area : [home.treasury.gov] In my area there's a guy who lives in a million dollar house, has a pro mod and a top dragster, a state of the art CNC shop with oodles of guaranteed govt contracts and 11 whole employees.. and he scored a 350,000 to 1,000,000 loan.. err.. grant.. err taxpayer gift..grift? from the PPP loan program. He's also the first person to scream SOCIALISM !! and MY TAXES !!anytime he feels somebody is getting an "entitlement" , but there he is taking a taxpayer handout instead getting all bootstrappy and selling off his multimillion dollar racing operation to make ends meet like he claims everyone else should find a way to do. Privatize the profits, socialize the risk. I wish I was part of that club. We need to start letting business fail and holding executives accountable for it. The airline industry should be ground zero for starting this. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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nothing new
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You are probably dead right about those last two sentences. Sadly. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
WPI/NTPA is a business that is under the same pressure to handle covid 19 just like anyone else. I'm not sure how many businesses that have had a large portion of their revenue reduced that are keeping all their employee's on the payroll. Sounds like the NTPA is doing the prudent thing from a business standpoint. I am fully confident that the NTPA will be around for years to come. We all had better hope that. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Hopes and Dreams
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I guess if Hope's and Dreams were wants and wishes then Mr. Morgan would be in charge. Best think to happen is WPI takes a swim, because once again the only people that will get the short end of the deal will be the pullers. They will be paying higher membership fees or pullers will bale them out once again with their donations. Which are NOT tax deductible |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Team one
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That’s the dumbest thing I have read today, if pullers feel they are paying too much in memebership fees why do they do it? They are free to pull with most any organization, but chose NTPA likely because they can typically pull closer to home so saying you want NTPA to fail is just ignorant, if they go down a lot of pullers will be left twittling their thumbs like they are this season, it’s a pulling club/organization most people do their best to support what they are involved in and don’t expect anything in return, but time and time again we see millionaire pullers haul out their hundreds of thousand dollar TOYS! And complain about less purse money and more fees etc. if money is truly that tight at home maybe you should stay there. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Old Fan
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If WPI were to go under, I could see PPL and the Indiana Pulling League making some serious gains in Region 2.
Which in all seriousness wouldn't be all that bad. That way WPI could just focus on their SN events and keep those shows going strong. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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longtimer
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"KnowledgeFromPA", you stated 1 very key word: "Rumor". Where are the facts to back up your statements? So you are just another negative pot stirrer.
"Hopes and Dreams", where are your facts to back up your statement: "They will be paying higher membership fees or pullers will bale them out once again with their donations." "Old Fan", "If WPI were to go under", then that means they are out of business and thus Can Not "focus on their SN events and keep those shows going strong.". In 2018, I specifically asked in casual individual conversations to WPI treasurer and various WPI and NTPA directors about finances. Every one informed me that the organization is very solvent. So if the organization is currently taking a prudent financial path, makes sense during this unique time in history. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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KnowledgeFromPA
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That came from the President of WPI talking to pullers at the shootout in Pennsylvania, pardon my verbiage and use of rumor. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
To KnowledgefromPA, so you are saying that Roger Wysong told you directly what you posted. If you are putting Roger's name to the "rumors", why don't you let us know who you are instead of being anonymous. Why keep our identity secret? These rumored Roger comments can easily be verified, by the way. JW |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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KnowledgeFromPA
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Why does it matter what my name is. I get so sick of that on this board. If I am a first timer to this board I don’t know who you are. Just because you are registered still doesn’t make you any less anonymous. Verify away, he was talking about WPI being broke, measures that were going to be taken as mentioned above. By the way we lost one of the greatest customer service, caring, and awesome people in Helen due to this. Also talked about 800,000.00 but it not being available for operating expenses. Mr. Morgan has spent the last 6 months asking 10 different ways if it is time for NTPA to restructure and look at their business model. I think the answer is clear! YES! My problem isn’t with WPI in of itself. To me, having been around the DPS legacy is clear. Yes he kept them afloat, but NO he did not plan for the future. The fly by the seat of your pants method didn’t work, the lack of a 2 year, 5 year and 10 year business plan didn’t work. One guy in this thread said something to the effect of businesses run lean now and don’t have rainy day funds. I’m not sure which business college or financing college he received his degree from, but his idea of lean was corrected in a later response in of that deals more with the concept of profit sharing than it does not having a back up plan. Roger Wysong inherited a mess. WPI/NTPA as a whole needs restructured. For the sport to survive you old guys have to get out of the way, not all of you, but to many of you are stuck in the 80’s way of doing things. Again, I believe the current mess is more of a reflection of a failed DPS legacy. There was never any planning or foresight, still isn’t. Was a small business loan applied for through the federal program designed to help businesses make payroll? It’s time for the old guys to get out of the way and it’s time to hire someone who will take the bull by the horns and control the product. With a business plan of sound principles in place I believe this could have been avoided. No puller deep down wants to see the demise of NTPA and in any of my posts never advocated for it, when you’ve spent more than half your life around it though their reactions become predictable. Saying that your 2020 membership dues will be applied towards instead of paying for 2021 one can guess a hike is coming. I’ve had two seasons where parts didn’t come in and one in which the tractor was being built that my membership was rolled over, not applied towards. So its an educated guess based on experience. This is all I’m going to say about it. Happy fact checking. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Hey Longtimer
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Go direct to NTPA website and they ask for donations of pullers membership fees if they so choose. Nothing hard about reading the fact. Yes, speculation is that membership fees will be raised, but I will bet you they do as that is a no brainer. Mr. Riley stated they live and die by membership fees to stay afloat. Not hard to fiqure any of this out. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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longtimer
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Guess what "Hey ...", I read all that the day it was posted. And just read it all again. And no where does it say a 2021 membership will cost more. Probably some pullers have inquired about providing a donation, and thus the reason for that option. There still are, fortunately, some kind hearted souls yet in life.
So currently some of you are promoting a Rumor that NTPA pulling membership fee will be increased. Why only NTPA? So why are so many of you ragging on NTPA? Why is the situation not any different for any other pulling sanctioning body? Do you really think that Forrest Lucas will be satisfied if his PPL does not turn a 2020 profit? How long will Lucas tolerate any of his enterprises to be financially in the red? But I suppose that if a 2021 PPL membership costs (significantly) more, that is tolerable, especially the way many of think (love PPL / hate NTPA). If you cannot afford a (increased) membership fee, despite there is usually no concern of spending whatever $$$$$ are needed to improve your pulling vehicle, then perhaps it is time to sell that pulling vehicle and exit the pulling sport. Then you can go spread your new rumors and whining in your new found sport. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Hey longtimer
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Your comprehension is a little off . The post said your membership donation was a choice and membership fees going up was speculation. Not a given.
Quote ( Example: John Smith paid the early rates for a Competition License ($409) and a Regional National/Member State Registration ($240). If John makes zero hooks, John will be able to apply the total, $649, toward his 2021 fees.) That did not say his membership would be paid for the 2021 season, just that it applies to next years membership fee cost. So yes your guess is as good as anyone's, that yes they may not increase and yes they might increase. Just think it thru. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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longtimer
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"Hey...", you need to take your own advice: "Just think it thru." and comprehend what the 4 membership fee options are. You are the one providing all the pure speculation of NTPA membership fee increases. Not me. Yet you are calling me out. Get real.
Since you appear to be such a know it all, why do you not just provide legitimate factual answers to all the questions I posed in my previous post? |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Hey Longtimer
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I will make a bet that membership fees will go up. So let's mark this day and get back together. Mr. Riley had it right membership fees keep WPI afloat. Without it there is no NTPA. So you can rob Peter this year in hopes keeping Paul afloat next year, but that will not last to long. As has been stated pulling will change after this and never to be the same. The even bigger question is what will change be and how will it be going forward. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Old Fan
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We all know that WPI can't actually go under. The "shareholders" would bail them out. It's been proven that WPI is willing to buy back the shares to keep the train running. However they buy back the shares for what they say they are worth, not necessarily for face value.
I guess I should've said that is WPI were to scale back, maybe they just need to concentrate on their SN events. At the end of the day, all they seem to really care about is BG, Tomah, and CH. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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New puller
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What ever happens ipl is going to take over Indiana |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
PULLING WILL NOT BE THE SAME AFTER ALL THE COVA CANCELLATIONS THIS YEAR LOTS OF COUNTY FAIRS WILL NEVER BE BACK THATS MY PRERDICTION |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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ohio promoter
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im afraid your correct sir |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I realize everyone is disappointed in the cancellation of pulling events and I can understand their frustrations. The need to blame someone or something is very tempting. For some it's China, or the state governments, local health authorities, maybe it's promoters that caved in, someone has to be the blamed. To say that the NTPA should have had a better business plan, that they should have foreseen covid 19 or any other thing that was on the horizon is foolish. I guess you could say the same thing about Gold's Gym, Neiman Marcus, J.C. Penney, Hertz, and the list goes on and on. The NTPA makes money by putting on pulling show's, plain and simple, that's what they do. When show's get canceled the income goes with it. The NTPA is not any different than any other business, if you don't like their product shop some where else. But for those that like their product and services this is not a bad time to stand with them, to show support and not dissension. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 01/10/2016 Posts: 183 |
does any one have information on how to roll over dues to next year. I saw it once on facebook and can't find it |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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saw
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Nothing is required it will automatically happen |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll? TO; New Puller
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HP
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I was wondering where Tom McConnell went ! |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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?
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I just wonder if JC Penney and Hertz and golds gym, Nemein Marcus ask their employees to nail them out like NTPA expects, maybe they all will take a pay cut or donate their earned vacation time !!! |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Team one
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No, they all got fired/laid off, the pullers are investing in something they own or have membership in because they like everyone else would like to go to a pull, there is a difference. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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?
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Yea right, lol, pullers are told they own it,DPS always had last word, if thats the case i want my royalty money from being a 30yr plus member, --- that was funny, pullers own it, lol lol lol |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Maybe like ? above 1985 re-issue worthless paper to member states for $10,000 and member pullers for $1,000 per share and get a huge influx of new money. See how far that idea flys, there are a few of us still around that were at that fateful meeting when a lot of tempers flared. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
Thats a long time to be mad. Not very healthy. Smile and be happy. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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My Opinion
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Lots of pulling organizations are facing financial problems because of a lack of income..It may not get any better in 2021. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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In response to NTPA/WPI surviving on membership dues: That's not exactly what I stated. It's a membership association so it exists for its members. The financial plan for NTPA has always been providing a future for pulling. Yes, it's been a tough go, reduced membership, limited sponsor income, limited event income, etc. I firmly believe that the association is in good hands. Do you think Forrest will continue to shell out money to PPL for their program if times get even worse.
The worst way to not make money is to not have events. It's a big revenue source. The NTPA has run on a very lean structure for a number of years. The HQ crew wore many hats and their dedication to its members is really without question. Enderle and Banquet cancelled pretty much signal the end of the year, however, not the end of the NTPA. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Fact Checker
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Forrest Lucas doesn't "shell out" money. The sponsors of PPL and Team Lucas foot the majority of the bill, the rest is from the promoter.
This isn't a knock on WPI, but PPL is not running on a lean platform. They have plenty of backing to keep the train rolling. Even in "these times" as the mainstream media calls it. 
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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longtimer
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Fact Checker, where are your source of facts to back up your statements?
Or is just assumed that since Lucas appears to be a wealthy man, it then becomes presumptious that PPL has no financial problems. Where are the facts to prove that PPL is solid in its own finances? Does PPL even have a board of directors? If so, who are they? Who holds what key postions? |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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I didn't mean to demean Mr. Lucas, his company's or the PPL. He did save that brand of pulling from being extinct and He did start PPL and numerous sanctioning and promoter bodies. I'm have no knowledge of PPL or Lucas Oil. That being said, the revenue stream for ANY live entertainment has been diminished.
I don't feel that NTPA pulling is in a death roll and events should be able to work towards a 2021. |
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Re: WPI/NTPA in its death roll?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Lots of jobs are going to be lost due to this Cova and not be back for a couple years crouds will be a thing of the past for a few years so they are all in a death role |
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