12:11:18am, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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The super farm class should be on 20.8 tires. From a class progression standpoint why not go from 9500 pro farm or Badger State Hot Farm 466ci on 20.8, to 9500 hot farm 510ci also on 20.8, to 9300 super farm 640ci but then change tires?
Just looking at PPL that seems like a more natural progression? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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Why not also go to a 3x3.5 turbo while they're at it? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super Farmer
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How about combining 466 hot farm and super farms into one class?
In my opinion the best super farm class would be 540 cubic inch, intercooler, and 24.5-32s. 540 cubes is a practical size that gives all brands a fair chance to compete. There's really no need for 640 cubes. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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I agree with 540 and a cooler but 20.8s should still be the tire otherwise you just have a light pro with a cooler and smaller turbo |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Why
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Why cant you just leave it alone it’s perfectly fine just like it is and has been for 20. Ya the class may have its hiccups and growing pains but tell me any class that doesn’t. I never understood why people always want to buck the wagon. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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We are trying to do that. With 20.8 tires, the way God intended. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super Farmer
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I don't see a problem being like light pro with a smaller charger, but i wouldn't complain with running 20.8s |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Why
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Thats been the whole problem all along we have to many classes. In stead of someone building a tractor for a class they make a class for a tractor. I won’t disagree i like all classes but everyone harps on super farm and that class has kinda been the backbone to all they other added classes in the last 5-10 years |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Both front tires
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Super Farm has been around longer than most classes an has LOTS of participants, and i agree -- PEOPLE NEED TO BUILD for the classes that already exist !!! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Both rear tires
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Well with that said then the Super Farms should have built for the Pro Stock class and the Pro Stock should have built for the Superstock class. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Why not leave SF alone now that's it's been around for years. I agree it should have been a 540 class. The bigger issue "To me " is the other classes have different meanings through out the country. A hot Farm ,pro farm and all the limited and light limited classes run under different rules and setups depending on where they are at. Hot farm even within Pa. and New York run under different rules and setups. If you had the same rules throughout at least an area you could run 3x the number of tractors at an event. Snyder County has 619 cubes for hot farm while 2 other organizations run 466 along with the New York Hot farm class. I remember15 years ago if you pulled into the old Middleburg track with a 6030 they always tried to throw you out. Now that's the cube limit for the class and wins the points. Hmm. Yes times and people change but unity is what makes pulling grow. I doubt things will change anywhere because we are all set in our ways. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Old fan
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if the class has the word farm in it the class should use a tire size you would find on a farm tractor I dont care if it is a radial, like a 460/85/38 or 460/85/42 |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Both front tires
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Super Farm is for those that don't want to go component and have to upgrade and buy a new bigger turbo every year or so , its basically a lower budgeted pulling tractor that a Pro Stock, not everyone wants or can afford to run a prostock -- its like LIGHT LIMITED SUPER STOCK -- still an ag rearend like the older Super Stocks an still make good power an diversity of all colors in the class --- not to mention one of the most popular classes in the country !!!! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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For real?
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They all just had to buy a ten thousand dollar apex if they want to win. Before that it was a six thousand dollar Harts. If you think it's cheap or you don't have to buy a turbo every year you're dead wrong.
Two things would solve that. Weight, which I think is already perfect. Or TIRES! If you're on 20.8s with 1700hp plus you'll not have to have the latest and greatest turbo to win. You'll have to know how to set up a tractor! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
Just a question, has the appearance of purpose built 20.8 pulling tires (i.e. ProPullers etc.) made this less of a deal? It was one thing when you were running on old farm tires now I would be willing to bet on some tracks these new 20.8 would beat 24.5s. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Wondering
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How far off are the 9500 ppl midwest hot farms on 20.8 verses 9300 super farms horsepower wise.The hot farm seems to do pretty well on 20.8 |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Personally I enjoy watching the super farm class and always have.it is the only national level ag tractor class left.j can relate to that class.i also agree a cube limit to keep the ac and ford tractors competitive |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Time For a Change
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If someone actually wanted to see the class at its full potential they'd think outside the box and not be afraid to change rules for the better. The super farm class is supposed to be halfway entry level or atleast practical to get into. All brands should be able to be represented easily. The ones who don't want to change the class are the people who bleed red or green. Its time to put an end to the 640 and introduce the 540 super farm. Before you say there is nothing wrong with current super farm rules, do you pull a jd or a binder? If you do I wouldn't see anything wrong with the rules either....
And as far as the 20.8s, I'm good either way. But the engine size is the bigger issue in this class not so much the tire size. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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DOG IN THE FIGHT
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Just as Time For A Change said earlier, the 640 needs to go. That or just make an unlimited 10k pro stock on skinny tires. That way you can have all the power in the world but if you have no clue how to get it to the track you aren't effective.
Lighter weight and tire size are the only two limits that can effectively keep cost down in a class. Turbos tried and CI limits were ok for a minute but both got ridiculously costly in a huge hurry. I cannot afford to enter the entry level grand national class and that's just plain dumb. Look at drag racing. Skinny tire is the equalizer. |
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Turbo and pump costs comparison?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
For single charger classes from Pro, Light Pro, Limited Pro, Super Farm and Hot Farm (NTPA/PPL 510 ci), how much does one need to spend in 2020 on turbo and pump to have a top 10-caliber tractor. |
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Re: Turbo and pump costs comparison?
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
I shouldn't do this, because there is so many experts out there to destroy me
First off...cubic in...Leave it alone...why? this size was decided long ago...it was to allow the bigger cube engines in...Now everybody that has a Super Farm, takes a block and sizes it to 640....This would be no different than 540, 520, 480, or 200 cubes....The only thing it would do is force people to spend money....Really? WTF Tire size....Leave it alone...Why? This was decided when we could grab combine tires and make them pulling tires....They have evolved....It doesn't really matter what size tire, we will figure out how to get them to hook. I love the one where they said it will make more of a driver class. With that mentallity, lets put 15.5 x38 on diesel super and 14.9 x38 on alchol supers to even them out and make it a "real drivers class" Look at the history....leave it alone...Changing tire size will only do one thing..force people to spend money....Really? WTF Pumps and Turbos....I am about the only one that can talk about this by the right that I have pulled all 3 major associtations (PPL, Outlaw and NTPA)...Wanna know about pumps.....Put aside 20 to 25 for the pumps and injectors.....Turbos 6 to 10....However, if you run Outlaw the turbo is about 4 and is good for 3 years....You wanna get spendy, lets talk fuel and water....I bought a whole ranger full.....spent 150 at Rock Valley....spendy Right? That was enough for all my out law hooks....Put different fuel and water in for a NTPA hook....spent 200 to fill up the water and fuel and did not have a 10 dollar turbo on The only thing I would love to see is a uniform set of rules.....to be honest gearing is becoming a pain because I can't run the gears I need in all the different groups that we run because of the turbos and intercooler rules......I love how you can't run a box charger in NTPA and PPL but when you can and you are running agaist those set ups, its close. I have seen it with NTPA tractors coming in to run with us to test and us at ECI hooks Money is the KEY....How much do you want to spend????? There is pullers out there that would like to pull, know they may get a win, not spend a ton of cash, and sit down and drink a pepsi with the group and shoot the bull till the sun comes up.....For us, that is pulling...grilling, sitting down and talking to friends and just relaxing....If you can say that you have grilled a burger at a pull in timbuckto and then sat down and did the same thing at the NFMS....to me that is pulling Now for the people out there that think that Super Farms are just a bunch of plow tractors.....One night at a pull in gordy we pulled a pump and was working on a tractor, a real puller came over "prostock" to help. We got that pump switched, lit her up with JD either and had a pepsi. His thought was this....wow you got a lot in that tractor. Super farms are not plow tractors.....They just look like one...LOL Now get your keyboard up and bash me.....but log in first please |
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Re: Turbo and pump costs comparison?
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Wheeler
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Just because 640 was decided a long time ago doesn't make it right in todays world. Literally every brand is capable of being competitive at 540. But nope lets wean the colors out and make it a red and green show. If you are a big block person and want to run your big blocks so bad then change the rules to 640 without cooler and 540 with cooler. Work with the 540 guys and compromise so that everyone is happy. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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To many tractor classes
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Farm stock. That anywhere from 20 to 100 classes. 4.1, light, limited, pro, super, super farm, hot farm,to hot to farm, light limited, classic, natural, light, heavy, Alcohol, diesel, checked, unchecked, etc |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Sf puller
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Leave the super farm class alone it is not broken doesnt need fixing numbers are growing all the time in the class put 24 5 32 s on your hot farms and get in the light pro class if you want too but leave us alone in the superfarm class |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Sf puller, where are the numbers growing at in the Super Farm class? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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Not sure "just leave me alone" is a valid argument to the people who don't want to spend insane money on the latest and greatest turbo every year. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Sf puller
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mid south 3 New ones this year and more coming next year class has been very popular and competitive for a long time so maybe yall need to mind your on business if you are not in the superfarm class |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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The business
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This is our business chief. Maybe you have the money to buy all this high dollar @#$%& every year for a beginner class but most of us sure as hell don't.
Why don't you move up? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 270 |
You guys are really something! You’ve been complaining about this class for a few years now.....to slow...no power....should all go limited pro....and now you brush pullers (nothing wrong with brush pulling) want to pull back the rules so your “hot farm” tractors can pull and compete in the class? Come on now? Really? It’s the one class that’s worked for many years....be crazy to mess with something that works. As far as money goes...it’s all stupid....even brush pulling. Do what you can...have fun...and for Pete’s sake quit trying to re invent the wheel! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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Who you think made that class, dummy??? All us brush pullers have 20.8s. Not sure what dipslit put 24.5s on them in the first place but it's an outdated rule just like 640ci |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 270 |
Brush pullers can keep 20.8’s....and keep brush pulling...no problem there... |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Again
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Will anyone tell us if the ppl midwest hot farms are close to comparison on 20.8 compared to 9300 super farm on 24.5 just a question could be a chance actually build your class and maybe help brush pullers as you say |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah Winner
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You are exactly right. I say this to the whiners and complainers: If you don't like the class or the rules, then DON'T pull it! Do this instead: pull in the smaller classes, and if you want to jump up to a bigger class, then do that. If not, then leave us alone! All you people on this site do is bitch and piss and moan that it doesn't come your way. I always thought the point of tractor pulling was to see who had the best tractor out of the year. So, we buy parts and BIGGER parts to see who is the best. But apparently, PPL fan only likes the two mph antiques. Let me see any of you win Bowling Green, Tomah, or the Enderle, and then I will shut my mouth. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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PPL Fan
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Do it on 20.8s with an outdated turbo and we'll shut ours... |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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A Real SF Puller
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First of all if you cant spend the money then you need to drop classes or get out of pulling. Don't screw with something that is working well. There are still probably a good 75-100 super farms out there between New York to Nebraska. People always bash super farms on here. To answer the PPL midwest hotfarm vs superfarm question. Hot farms are 1500+hp and super farms are 1700 HP. The real difference is torque. Super farms are 3500+ vs hot farms at 2900 torque. In todays world there is a class for everyone. Join the one that fits you and leave everyone elses classes alone. Dont try and change things. Let the classes vote on changes if needed. We have discussed bigger turbos in PPL champions tour rule meeting for last 4 years and as a whole overall it dont pass. Class is fine as is. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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All the more reason for 20.8s. Bashing people for not wanting to spend 125k on a beginner class and TEN GRAND for a turbo every year shows that you're not qualified to make the statement. There are multiple Harts 3x3 turbos on the for sale page for pennies on the dollar. Is that a beginner class? Hell NO! SF is supposed to be the class you move up in to from brush pulling as you call it. So, LEVEL THE SPENDING FIELD! People are mad at pullers who don't move up from some variant of farm stock or hot farm but it's too cost prohibitive of a jump to move up! Couple that with people who have made homes winning "championships" at lower levels and are never forced to move up and you see that's the whole problem here!!! READ AND LISTEN TO THAT! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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plum krazy
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no one listens, -- we are all selfish and want to beat up on the church ladies, too much of a jump from some levels to the next, many teams have big company money and some with grandaddy's money also, but for most working folks it is hard to spend the grocery money over and over. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 270 |
I don’t really think a super farm class which is recognized as a grand national class is for beginners.... There are levels to many things in life...jobs...sports...ect. Everyone always wants more. For some, goals are attainable and some not. We should never pull someone else’s rope back but instead be happy for them because they can stretch it farther than others. We need every level of pulling but with levels there are incremental standards that need to be in place. I’m getting my chance to pull on a different level but It’s taken 39 years to do so. I probably won’t be in the winners circle but have won more than my fair share of pulls along the way. After this summer I’d say we all better thank our lucky stars that there’s still an opportunity to pull! Good luck to all and to all a good night...I’m done posting on this thread! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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I’m not sure why out of all the classes everybody always singles out the super farm class. Your theory of putting smaller tires on it to make it more of a drivers class might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Putting smaller tires on EVERY class would make it more of a drivers class! Last time I checked the unlimited supers and diesel supers need the help with numbers so maybe putting some 20.8’s on those would help make it so you can afford to pull in that class. As far as 640 I’m not sure why you would change that either. The 85 limited pros are 466 and guess what it’s still a red green show. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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Obviously you can’t tell the difference between colors. I wasn’t talking about “brush” pulling either. A few quick facts. Rock valley which was a outlaw hook had 25 out of 25 either red or green. Wilmington Ohio region 2 hook had 21 out of 23 red or green and ppl bowling green had 25 out of 25 red or green.. so I guess different shades of red and green mean plenty of color for you. There’s a reason the different colored tractors are brush pulling because they can’t compete with the top 3 organizations. If you haven’t had a stroke yet I would love to hear what you say now |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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So now we’re supposed to buy the latest a greatest turbo every other year and now you want us to buy a set of 20.8 every other year. I can assure the 20.8 won’t last as long as the 24.5. The big money guys are going to do whatever it takes to win no matter what. So are we really saving money? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I am never a fan of changing rules that have worked. The change to 20.8 is just another expense that pullers don't need. I do think that to many hooded tend to look all the same. However we are way to far down the road to start changing rules. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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Oh well since we have your assurance I guess we'll just drop the discussion then. Everyone go do something else we have SF's assurance. No. If you have 20.8s you wouldn't have to have the latest and greatest. Also, tires don't wear faster just because they're skinnier. We've been using the same pair of top cut bfg's for the better part of a decade making 20 hooks a year brush pulling. You said yourself adding 20.8s to any class makes you need to be a driver. What you left out is that it negates the need for high dollar parts. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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Clearly you know nothing about tires especially if your telling me Bfg’s are a good tire. The wear has nothing to do with what I’m concerned with it would be the sidewalls of the tires getting weak because of the torque. Here’s a question for you since you seem to no everything. If it doesn’t take horsepower to win since you say we don’t need the high dollar parts then why do the unlimited keep gaining more and more horsepower every year when they already have more then they know what to do with? The high horsepowered one are the ones still on top! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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Your concern about sidewalls tells me that I wish I was your regional sales guy bc I bet he's sold you all the way into a new house for himself many times over. If sidewalls got weak from the torque of a super farm they'd be destroyed in two runs on a pro stock. But keep lying to yourself. Again, put the unlimited on 20.8s. But thanks for making my point for me. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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Well then why do most prostock guys switch tires every year? And why do some switch in the middle of the year? |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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Number one, IF they do its because they can. Most don't. They spin them about 15 times harder than a super farm too. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
Number one, IF they do its because they can. Most don't.
They spin them about 15 times harder than a super farm too. Brush puller: Now I am not the smartest and I am smart enough to know that.......IF a tractor (pro stock) has twice the power of another tractor (super farm) and lets say the super farm runs a 20 to 1 gear......to spin it out "15 times harder" the prostock would have to run a 1.33 gear and spin it out at 4000 RPM.....however it is a pro stock and they turn lots of RPM'S so lets say they are cranking 8000 RPM and would be running a 1.66 gear or 958 mph gear(RPM / gear ratio x wheel dia / 12 x 60/5280 = speed ((8000 /1.66 x210 /12 x 60 /5280)).....I had no IDEA the prostock's were cranking that type of gear.....THATS's AMAZING.......I want one of those.....you may want to rerun your numbers.....(Disclaimer: I think the numbers are right...I only have a engineering degree, would someone with a math related degree run the numbers to verify. Also I was using a sharp adding machine, a better calulator may be required)....BTW i'm just saying |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
I screwed up
8000 rpm 2.66 gear (half as fast) Should be 598 mph.....still impressive Im guessing 5000 rpm 18 gear 55 mph |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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The fact that you only used factors of rotation and power tell me that you are either an amateur engineer or you should get a refund for your degree.
Lots of variables in real world scenarios that you totally ignore in your feeble attempt to support your narrative. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Puller8
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I dont understand why some have to complain about super farms ALL THE TIME!! Not to mention other classes as well. As a puller I appreciate All classes and organizations. I dont always agree with a given organizations rules, however I do respect them and what they do. My tractor doesn't meet some organization's rules and that's ok. I just won't pull with said organizations. I don't expect them to change their rules just for me. Ill just go pull wherever I do meet the rules or I'll make the changes to compete there. I suggest if you want to pull super farm, then step up and build to meet the rules otherwise stay where your at. Its not rocket science! Pull and have fun and quit complaining! |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Brush
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That's spectacular sport growth advice. Thanks for sharing. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 08/08/2018 Posts: 5 |
pretty sure there was a Orange tractor-Endangered Species, A Blue tractor-Spanky Toy and a Olly-Wasted Wages, please look up some results before posting false information |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Super farm puller
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Your a little bit behind. There have been several post deleted and I was referring to the 8500 limited pro not the super farms. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
Dr Orders also |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah winner
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Where I am from, our hot farms run a 466 block, and can choose between 20.8s or 24.5s. Why not have the hot farms jump up, instead of the super farms jumping down. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah winner
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Well, if you're not willing to spend the money, then don't pull the class. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah winner
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I agree. If you don't like it, we don't care, go pull a different class with a different association. We are not going to change the rules just because 10 out of over 100,000 people think we should. Besides, we could still kick the @#$%& out of a hot farm with 20.8s. We have a lot more horsepower and torque. Also, driving experience matters. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Registered: 05/24/2013 Posts: 380 |
Before you make blanket statements you should know that hot farm has many different meanings. Some of which will carry more horsepower than a superfarm. In some places you’d have your hands full keeping up with them let alone beating them. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Puller8
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Brush has little fish syndrome. Hes the one on here pleading his case as to why a Grand National class should change their rules just for him. He is of the type who finishes at the bottom of his class and wants to gripe about the guys at the top even though getting someone thrown out at the top would have no bearing on him taking home a check. If you want to pull super farm Mr. Brush, step up and do it and quit complaining. Grow up dude. It is not going to change no matter how much you cry about it! Have a great day and enjoy pulling at your level and stop crying around about a class thats out of your reach. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah Winner
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What do you mean by blank statements? Another thing, the trannies in a super farm are faster. We don't need the high RPM's because of the torque level. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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200 hp
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Tomah winner
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One reason, that Super Farms have 24.5's, if you actually think about it, is so they can jump up to 4.1 by just changing the turbo. 4.1's run a 640 and 24.5's just like the super farm, with no component rear end, and same sheet metal, same engine. |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
The problem with your deduction is the SF has been around a lot longer than the 4.1 so the SF were running 24.5 long before the 4.1 or Lt PS was even though about. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Super Farms should be on 20.8 tires
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Paull
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AAR, -- I like how you think, many places run the dickens out of "HOT FARM ",SOME DEFINITIONS REDEFINE THE VOCABULARY AND DICTIONARY COMPLETELY. Depends on where you go, some regions have gone beyond in these classes and run the full gamut of Power and speed. |
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