03:06:18pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
|
How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
How much variance do pullers see from one set of scales to another?
What's the widest variation anyone has seen being weighed with same vehicle/driver/# of weights from one scale to another? |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
farmstocker
|
I pull at mainly brush pulls and have seen as much as 500lbs difference from scale to scale. I believe the ground that the scale is placed on has a big part to do with this. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Depends how many times the scale has been smashed into that particular day by vehicles that are too low to clear it. Not very accurate in my experience |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 241 |
I've driven on the scale, driven off, then back on, and have seen 300 lbs. difference. If it isn't on a level concrete pad it can't be accurate, setting it on dirt is a joke. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Trouble
|
I suspect that moisture intrusion is the issue most of the time. The slightest bit and it can cause things to be inconsistent. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
THATS exactly why there needs to be several tractors weighed on a certified scales to have something to go by. It always burnt me up every puller out there knows exactly what there tractors weigh and very few are honest the ones that needed extra weight will always ARGUE the scales was off |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
Approximately every 5 years when this topic comes up on the boards I've always thought that a certified weight or weights that each sled keeps on the sled can be used. For example, the weight is weighed on a certified scale at a truck stop or a grain elevator. Weld the numerical lbs. on the weight. I agree moisture and bumping the scales with a low truck weight box etc. usually messes things up. (for example a low 2wd or 4wd truck) The biggest factor is having a level concrete pad at each fairgrounds to set the scales on. Or just sit a 2,000 lb. chunk on the scales and calibrate with it or keep 4 fifty pound weights and place them on each corner of the scale. When the scales are set on dirt, they eventually sink and get the load cells out of whack; but professionals like but not limited to: Logan Thomas, Richard Love, and Vaughan Bauer could give us better info/comments on this topic  Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2020 12:39PM by kevinh. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Twd/mini puller
|
I believe the NTPA tried it for one even were they set the scales up and had them certified. If I remember correctly they had couple unlimted and a couple of minis that couldn't make weight so they bumped the class anyways.
When we pulled Mini's it was a really big deal. We have been on scales being 200 lbs off. When you only have 100 movable pounds that becomes a huge issue. What the scales is sitting on is the biggest thing. We have went across scales first and been fine. Then go across them again at the end of a night and been 100 pounds or so off. Especially of you have a say 10,000 pound prostock class that really makes them settle in. Plus have also been to two day pulls with scales on a pad and they still been different. A ton of variations can cause this. Temp and moisture are big one. Especially with aluminum. The scale frame and plate could be bound up trying to expand or contract with a changing temp. Have also watched wind at a asphalt plant take 100 pound or so off. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 241 |
Portable scales can't be certified as legal for trade. There is a reason, they aren't that accurate and repeatable. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 04/06/2016 Posts: 126 |
When I ran NTPA LSS sometimes I carried 450lbs other times 40. Hold on and enjoy the ride! |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Absolutely correct as I have done that same thing and I had been certified at a grain elevator scale BEFORE I went over a portable to set the mark for others that were not certified. The ones that were not certified at the elevator had to throw a bunch of weight off to meet my weight. 500 lbs. on one tractor and that ended up in a broken front end. And I know that driver personally and he wouldn't be trying to cheat. I ended up winning the pull but I didn't feel right about it because I knew something had to be wrong. And by the way, I just want to tell everyone to stay safe and healthy during this holiday season. We are all in this together. Clark |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Me
|
I hook several tractors with 5 different groups and have seen from 100 to 500 lbs difference.. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Ohio Case
|
As a 9500 lb. hot farm puller for 3 yrs. we have seen 200-300 lbs. difference from one pull to another, same driver, same weights, same amount of water and fuel. When we ran a Hot Gas 4 x 4 pickup, same thing. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 03/31/2009 Posts: 309 |
Not that it doesn't effect all classes, but I believe it to be the biggest deal with the pickup truck classes. And have always been a proponent of having a certified truck and go by that. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Tomah winner
|
When I go with my family to Rockwell this year for NTPA, and this was the only pull for NTPA Grand National, so you think they would have their @#$%& right. Anyways, we went to one scale and it was right. The next session we switched scales and we had to take off 400 pounds. They said both scales were so far off they had to move everybody to the same scale for the afternoon session, which took twice as long to get to the staging area. I think all scales, no matter big or small, light or heavy weight, should be based off a set of standardized rules throughout the US. Please respond and give me your thoughts. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 191 |
The two scales you weighed on were probably identical which means any standard set of rules won't help. Being moved constantly, bumped into, and plugged into inconsistent power supplies makes them have a mind of their own unfortunately. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
As a sled operator who has to haul around & deal with multiple sets of portable scales.... a portable scale is 10x more headache than any sled ever will be. Most of the main problems have already been discussed here;
***Where they are sitting & what they're sitting on. Dirt? Grass? Concrete? Gravel? Is it level? Is there a low corner? Is a ramp sitting weird causing interference? ***Did a vehicle's weights hit the scale deck? Did somebody cross them with a support vehicle with enough speed to Bo Duke the scales trying to get a 10 pro up the ramps? ***Did somebody walk between the scale deck & the scale head & trip over the wire? Did the scale operator keep turning the head around & twist the wire up? ***Is there a reliable 110v or 12v power source to run the scale head? If it has an internal battery, is it charged? ***Has it rained at the facility or while the sled was in transport to the event within the last 12 hours? Moisture will affect a scale more than anything else, and it doesn't take much at all to make one go haywire. Portable scales are impossible to keep 100% accurate... plain & simple it's the nature of the beast. I'll put Kevin Banet on the spot here, he & his family do a great job because the scale is all they have to focus on before, during, & after an event. Scales that come with a sled are the 2nd & sometimes the 3rd or 4th on the level of importance to the sled operator that day... Sled itself is the top priority, then maybe it's the measuring system, or maybe he had truck trouble getting there that day & concerned with making it from that event home or to the next event the next day..... |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
I knew that Logan could shed some light on the subject 
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the board. Bo Duke the scales LOL
Thankful for the Morgan's for the Pulloff Board. Thankful for the sled and scale operators and all the hard work that they do to put on a great show. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
As person that has scales that been used at lot different events of all levels and have ran othere scales lot things factor in like if they are set light it is a % per weight so if your 20 light at 1000 that will be a progressive going up so at 10000 you be 200 off..Know for fact some sled owners set them light so pullers don't come to them telling them your scales off I can't Make class.The design can also make difference.The.age of them aslo as a lot of older scales used electronics from farm equipment. .Now days lots them are using more of commercial. lot things play in yes moisture can play in if you have open wires or plugs with newer stuff u can calibrate each corners older stuff needed be sent back , but main thing is each time it gives same reading...Remember they can break on different breaks like1,2, 5,10,20,40# also certified scale only have to with in 1%. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Simple everyone thats not go weigh your tractor on certified scales know your weight and dont be a cheat be honest dont fight for a extra 100 pounds on Sat night knowing you were wrong then go to church Sunday proud because theres something wrong some were worse than not being able to keep the front end down |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Never the same. I had a young guy his 1st time pulling who came up to me and said he couldn't get down to weight. He was 200 over. I said just wait until all the other tractors go over the scales. He came running over and said thanks I'm ok now. I've been at pulls where they couldn't weigh any tractor over 11000 lbs. and said use the honor system. Oh yea then why weigh anyone even if at or under 11000. Unless the scales are a concrete pad they are going to vary. My friend is a state scale inspector and gets a good belly laugh when you start talking about pulling scales. Even your grain elevator/mill scales can go wacky. Been there too. |
|
Re: How much difference between one scale and another?
|
Jeff Solley
|
Logan is spot on with everything he has said.
I have worked for the local pulling club for God knows how many years now. Have spent more time fighting with scales than I care to think about. I have seen us pick up our scales off of a concrete pad and put them in a barn for the night because it was going to rain, set them back in the exact same spot the next day and the SOB will not read right. Logan’s bow Duke comment was spot on Another thing you have to look at is when somebody Bo Dukes the scales Did whatever he was hooked to Roscoe the scales in a crash and actually bend or break some thing? Seen that one too. About the only thing you can do in my honest opinion is grab weight out of the sled that you know exactly what it ways calibrate your scales to that weight and after that as long as it’s consistent you have to live with it. Now I will flip to the tractor I help run. I have seen the scales at a two day event sit on a concrete pad never get moved and be off 100 pounds same driver same weight same everything from one day to the next. I have fought with the scales enough to know don’t even bother arguing with the scale operator it’s not his fault Sorry we just got a learn to live with it. I have taken same said tractor weighing 9300 pounds on multiple scales all summer long rolled it off the truck onto a certified scale and there she sits at 9800. I don’t even wanna think about the fight and argument that would ensue if I was the certified tractor and everyone had to throw off 500 pounds. This whole time everybody has been talking about portable scales. Let’s talk about the fairground that has their own set of old beam scales and they want to save money and not rent a scale. They usually have an approach ramp the four-wheel-drive truck weights can’t clear or the approach is so crooked you can’t get on them. What about the fact that nothing has been done to them since the last fair a year ago everything is rusty nothing is maintained you roll up on them with everything you’ve got and you’re still 1500 pounds light? After that one, what about when you run into the scale operator that sets the on scale for the weight of the class will not actually slide the weights to weigh the tractor just unlocks a beam and says your light or your heavy leaving you to guess how much weight to move? I will take my chances with a portable scales and just learn to live with it as long as they are consistently off for everyone. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,565, Posts: 229,582, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,056, Posts: 225,843.
Global: Topics: 38,565, Posts: 229,582, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,056, Posts: 225,843.
Our newest member BadHabit2
