02:35:40am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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How can ppl change the head rule for a established class at the end of March? Is Dougy running PPL already? |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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pullinfan4255
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Just go pull light pro, seems like that's the ultimate goal of this rule change is to grow that class and cut back numbers on LLP. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Red river
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What’s the new rule??? |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Why Not
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Why not just post it so everyone can see it? Is this for the 4.1 Lmtd Pro ? |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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I think
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I think the new rule allows recast heads in the 85 limited pro |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Exactly
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That’d get them away from the 3” charger that is directly responsible for causing the head issues in the first place |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Registered: 12/23/2014 Posts: 6 |
I am the one that started this ball rolling not Klint or John.
If you have any questions call me (8163831788 Josh Hannah) and I will tell you the facts. Thanks |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Ihfan
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Yep that class is getting ruined. Move up if you want different rules. People will understand someday when they are pulling against themselves to leave the rules alone. As far as changing rules. Why don't they vote on it at rules meeting. Just a fan in the stands. What do I know. |
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Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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So what you're saying Josh is you as a puller in 8500 limited pro are in charge of rule making and day to day decisions made to the class. Seems like there may be a conflict of interest. I wonder why Christie and John even show up? |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Registered: 12/23/2014 Posts: 6 |
No Darrin
As I stated above I started asking questions because of durability issues ,so if you are looking for a person to blame it’s me. IMO buying 1 cylinder head that will last is better that having to buy one every 30 to 40 passes. Cuss me hate I don’t care I will still shake your hand and tell you good job after you win As for the rule meeting was you there? |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Facts
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Josh told them he was putting one on even if they didn’t change the rule. They should of waited till the first pull and kicked him out. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Registered: 12/23/2014 Posts: 6 |
Funny |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Facts
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Its disrespectful not funny. You don’t have any respect for the ones in the class that abide by the rules. |
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Dear facts.....
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Getting deep
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You are so full of crap it isn’t even funny. If you think there is any one person who can make a phone call and get rules changed you live in a fairytale world. Disrespectful??? How on earth did you come up with that? If a rule was changed don’t you think the person such as Mears who approved the change is the one you need to direct your issues to? This class is dying for a reason, keep bandaiding everything else but don’t fix the real issue. Hart’s and Wimers love you for it 
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Re: Dear facts.....
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Facts
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Apparently you have no clue what your talking about. Josh is the one that has no respect for the rules. He said he was putting the recast head on even if they weren’t changing the rules. Sounds like disrespect to me. Also I have never spent a dime with Wimer or Hart’s so I dought they love me. |
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Re: Dear facts.....
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Getting deep
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If you haven’t bought from Wimer or Hart’s there is no reason you are a part of this thread and that is a fact |
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investment in recast
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CPA
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if the numbers are right for cost of the heads, no performance gain but greater reliability for the recast it is hard to argue against recast. over a few pulling seasons the recast would be less expensive. it is no different than buying a cheap set of tires that may last 30000 miles that cost 600 for a set but for 300 more you put on a set that will run for 80000 miles or more. you pay more on the front end but you save more money over time. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Registered: 12/23/2014 Posts: 6 |
I could get on here and say you told me that you was getting gender reassignment surgery.
That doesn’t make it true... |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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dumcomment
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You know,.. if a competitor never questions reasons why rules never change,.....what's the point of progress? Josh is absolutely correct on wanting recast heads,....they are solid poured and repairable . Durability keeps tractors on the track. To think salvage yard cast is the only option today with the increases in HP is really a dumcomment............ |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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LSS Fan
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If it was voted in by the class competitors, what is the problem? |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Ppl puller
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It was not voted on. I can assure you that. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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LSS Fan
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Well that is pretty sketchy then |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Head costs
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That all depends on where you go, oem heads cost anywhere from 2500-7500. A recast head is between 9500-11000. I’m just curious on longevity of oem heads. I had not heard of a lot of pullers having to change heads that often.. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Facts
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Then they should have done it at the meeting and not 2 months before the season starts. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Deere09
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I’m only a fan of the class not a puller in it but am curious. What does one of these recast heads cost compared to a oem that has been worked on? |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Registered: 01/07/2016 Posts: 8 |
I have to ask this extremely dumb question. If I read the rules correctly....(IF) there is not going to be a horse power advantage to speak of. So if the only reason for adding this rule was to help guys having problems but NOT force anyone to put them on WTH does it matter? If Josh Hannah wants to run a head that cost 3-5k more than getting an OEM head done who are we to tell another guy how to spend his own dang money??? I have a great idea if your in this class and you don’t understand why the rule was added your obviously not having problems with heads..congratulations no one is telling you that you HAVE to run one....it gives the guys options that do need a more durable head to buy 1 and not have to worry about it for the whole season (hopefully much longer). If you don’t pull in this class and are a fan....thank you for your $0.02 but it wasn’t needed.
Sincerely a guy that pulls in the class and wanted the rule added. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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I think what most pullers are concerned with is by allowing a recast heads you can now make your ports larger, increase valve size and flow more air. This becomes known as a performance advantage. Those that keep running OEM stock heads will have less air flow and will have to up grade to a recast head if they want to stay competitive. Been here and done this in a different class !!! LOL |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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Getting deep
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Oem head will flow all the air any 3” charger can produce and allow any valve size necessary to feed a 466. Clearly you are in a different class or you would know this. Do you have anything else you’d like to try to add? |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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LSS Fan
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Maybe there would be a performance advantage, maybe there wouldn't. I don't really think that is the issue of this thread. I think what is being questioned is the process that led to the rule change. No real answer has been given to that. |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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There is only 1 process.....
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As a Champion Tour member since 2007,.......I have never witnessed a "vote" on a rule change. John Mears decides it period. Competitors input is always requested,... and that might be where the keyboarders on here are confused to reality,.....I don't know what their mental capability is,...but by some of the comments here,... I have an educated guess................I sure hope they never encounter a boot full of piss,........... |
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Re: Klint Roberts not in charge it's Josh Hannah
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?
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This is Darren Horstmeier. It has recently come to my attention that maybe I was the one commenting on some of these threads under Lim Pro Puller I believe and I am not, have not and will not. I don’t care either way and Josh and I have spoken and cleared this up. But for anyone else that might’ve thought that I felt the need to clarify. I hope everybody has a wonderful week! And should you have any questions for me my number is 573-219-1466 thanks again. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Tomah winner
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Not to be dumb here, but is this for the 85 lim pro, or the 4.1 lim pro? I can see from what I have read that there is a problem with the rule being changed 2 months before the start of the season, and how nobody was informed or got to vote on it. I understand and agree that there should be a voting process on rule changes at a board meeting, but at the same time, if it happens, it happens, move on. If you want to run an OEM head, run it. If you want to run a recast head, run it. People need to understand that none of these classes are dying, all pullers are just spread out among different regions across the US. If you want more numbers, promote a certain class more than what you already do. I see whenever I go to a pull, they promote the pull, but they need to promote the classes more too. Also, reach out to the younger generations. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Ihfan
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Plenty of places to pull if you don't like the changes. Every great Era comes to an end. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Question???
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Why not just allow billet heads?
A creative guy in his shop can build one. It is easily repairable compared to a cast head (or recast head) which requires some special welding set ups and skills. Don't know if you all realize a recast head can crack also, maybe not as easily but it does happen. None of these pullers are casting their own heads. We just found another way to pad the pocket of a supplier. Some young buck with some smarts could make a billet head. If a cast head is not a performance advantage then neither is a billet head. Just put OEM height and width requirements on it. Plus why change it at the ninth hour? Change it for next year, maybe the change is stupid but at least everyone could prepare. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Cleet
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I totally agree. Once you move away from stock castings, there is no reason to not allow billet heads in. A cast head is just a more expensive way of getting there because they are so low volume production-wise. I don't even think there should be a limitation on port geometry. I'd want to see cam in stock location (no ohc), any material, inline valves at 0 degree / 0 degree to the deck, any rotation allowed, and that is it. Once you open Pandora's box there is no reason to not allow any type of head. Look at the cost of the recast heads out there, and the call up Losito, Foltz, MBE, or Visner and see what billet heads for the v8 world they sell for the same money. I get there is a lot of cost in "designing" and getting the cores made, pouring, etc for a recast head, but the bang for the buck is really low. Then you add on the fact that they are still a pain to repair and that not all brands have access to recast head, it makes a lot more sense to open the rules up to billet heads. The other upside it if the some forethought is put into the head when it it made, if a puller decides to step up a class the head can be reworked to move enough air for that as well. Total cost goes way down. With the proliferation of CNC equipment out there today, there is no shortage of shops who can make a head, or at least rough one out to be finished by an induction guy, and a cat with knowledge can still crank the handles on his Bridgy in his garage to make one too. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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I wholeheartedly agree. The only party that benefits from a recast rule is the manufacturer. Because there isn't enough volume for competition they are always going to charge a premium for their parts and the price will never come down. Going to a billet option opens the door to everyone and will ultimately bring the price down as designs are shared and manufacturing becomes more competitive. It's a great idea! |
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PPL reps have had a week to respond.
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It's totally a shame that PPL is privately owned or legal action could head this off for a year. As pullers we can all just choose to pull with Outlaws or other organizations and still hurt them in the pocket book. Now all you Northwest Pullers can stop it as you have a rules meeting. I don't pull there but I would just make sure it doesn't happen til next year.
Where's PPL leadership show us you want our tractors instead of our $$$ |
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Re: PPL reps have had a week to respond.
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linwoods fannatic
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You don't have standing,.................. |
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Re: PPL reps have had a week to respond.
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Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Because pulling run by pullers and/or committee always works awesome...
CP |
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Re: PPL reps have had a week to respond.
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here we go
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im pretty sure they already passed the head rule in northwest. the bulk of their tractors run ppl and probably already have them on. |
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Re: PPL reps have had a week to respond.
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Registered: 05/24/2013 Posts: 380 |
Lim pro puller do you have a deck plate? Are you going to sue outlaws for lost wages? What makes you think there aren’t recast heads running anywhere else I mean you know they are a little less conspicuous than say a deck plate for example..... As stated above northwest’s 85 class is predominantly made up of ppl pullers and go by ppl rules. Probably not going to be an issue, particularly since they already made a formal announcement they were adopting the rule change already |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Yep
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One thing is for sure . when it comes to the north west Mo. bunch whimpering and rule bending is going to be involved. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Mr. Outlaw pro stock puller.
This whole thing started back when Domanns put on an intercooler to try and overcome a big ci disadvantage. That change made their tractor competative enough to be in the hunt, they were not winning everything, but at least they were close. That fall at the outlaw meeting Doug says ' Well boys looks like the pro class is doing pretty good I dont see any need for changes' Then later about a month before season he sends out a letter saying, 'What are we going to do about this intercooler thing? He then proceded to send out a secret ballot to all pro pullers to vote on this issue, which of course the intercooler was voted out. At least thats what Doug told everyone. Nobody but Doug will ever know what the true vote was. This started the whole problem between Doug and the Domanns. My question to you is why was this not brought up at the meeting? I think I know why, because all of the pullers would have had to look Elvin in the eye and vote. Doug was very aware of this he new they would probably not be voted out. This one issue was handled very poorly, and led to all the other issues between Doug and the Domanns.Truth be known this current Turbo limit has more to do with Domanns coming out two years ago with a Conner charger, making lots of hp, than it has to do a breakage issue. You see Doug dosent like Ernie either. The way I see it They have done Domanns a huge favor, they can now go pull with some real pro stock tractors, where when you win it means something, and somebodys not pissed off trying to get you kicked out the next day. The morale to the story is I will never pay 2 cents to go watch your stupid outlaw limited turbo so called pro stock class, where a handfull of Doug lovers chase a Roberts bilt Johndeere thats going to win 20 championships. best of luck to you. |
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Re: Klint Roberts and March Rule changes!!!
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Darren Horstmeier
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After a lot of thought, since I was accused of being limited pro puller and I’m not I can’t help but imagine who this person is that lacks the testicular fortitude to put a name with a comment. Sad. Maybe if they put more effort into performance than the keyboard life might be different for them. And, maybe not. |
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