05:55:36am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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I have a hard time seeing how 50 pullers in one class is considered "grand national". You may have the best pullers in there, but you're also going to have a lot of average guys too. Also a larger variance in changing track and weather which puts more emphasis on how lucky your draw position is instead of how good your equipment is. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2021 06:45AM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I split this off to a separate topic because it's not specific to the other thread and I think it's an interesting point. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Since pulling doesn't have practice or qualifying and is a "moonshot" sorta deal, I like the idea that at a large event like this, you can get those changing track conditions and maybe that guy who is thought of as an underdog gets that day in the sun where he did everything right and puts one on 'em. If they did flights, it might not work out that way. Pulling has a long history of knowing that a track can change in a big class and that you are at the mercy of the draw. It adds a certain intrigue. I think to do it differently invites the eye-roll from some fans that "oh, that guy won again."
There are also a good many pullers who are loathe to have to make another pass for any reason. Just my thoughts of course. CP |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Your thoughts are good ones because I have seen your thoughts happen many times. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Posts: 513 |
When classes get that big, the only true way to get your "champion" is to have heats. Bring back your top 10 from each heat for your finals or "B" main if you have too.
There is 98 entries in the Knoxville Nationals this week for 1 class. They don't run all 98 in the feature on Saturday night Is this practical? Sometimes, the promoters will need to plan for this ahead of time and not 5 minutes before the pull. They do "heats" for the the 8,500lb Limited Pro's at the Cornhusker Classic, and it seemed to work out OK. --- 
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
How about an ACTUAL PULLOFF!!!????? And I know how well that idea will go over! OH OH OH OH OH!!! |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
I'm in favor of heats of some kind in anything over 20 hooks |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,576 |
You have to look at the wording here in one respect to get your answer...about.a class of 50 being GN or CT.
Grand National or Champions Tour class status by definition should make it understood that a reasonable number of pullers are willing to TRAVEL nationally to.support their class. My understanding of Super Farm at it's genesis was that it was a means to pull on a national level but at a "reasonable" cost...initially. Obviously costs have skyrocketed and the performance of the Super Farm tractors as a whole have made significant improvements. Plus, BG is a special place and you'll see double or triple a normal number in a class versus other events...generally but not always. I'm guessing 35 SF at BG this year. So, why are LPS, 4.1, or LLSS not Grand National or Champions Tour? It's simple, at least it is to me. The pullers in those classes have robust schedules at a state and regional level that better fit their work/life schedules; for example, a LLSS puller in Kentucky had 60 potential hooks this summer and much of the time can go sleep in their own bed after they pull (a reasonable drive home afterwards)...versus being in Iowa one weekend and Ohio the next. In the 3-4 days that it takes on the road to run nationally to get two.hooks, you could get four hooks in that same timeframe locally or regionally. The same could be said for LPS in Ohio where there is ample opportunity to hook...4.1 in Missouri... Time, not money, is our most valuable commodity; money is a close second. I travel a ton of miles and I marvel at how some teams can get anything done outside of.wrenching and traveling. Much respect to those who do. There may be a compromise that meets the desire to travel a bigger area but perhaps not as many hooks...but, wait, we already have it...it's called the Silver Series. LPS has 12 hooks across 6 states, for example. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/06/2016 Posts: 126 |
I’ll chime in on this topic. Several years ago an OSS JD arrived from CA and made a great pass. Probably got him in Louisville the next Feb. Only times I saw it pull a few times. Pullers travel from long distances to pull there. Super Rooster won the Ring a few years ago. That was a big deal to Kent. Some pullers go to BG is where you go to to see where you stand in the mix. Big time pullers set them a little harder to win. The best go there to win. Occasionally a average person will win and give them what they need for the next step.
It’s a dream to some to hear the hook to drop in and tighten the chain. To make a pass there is a memory you never forget. End of the weekend if it loads itself on the trailer you won. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Goldclub
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Ive always felt that at BG the drivers who are running for a Grand National Championship should all pull back to back. I dont care if it is early, middle or late in the class, heck maybe even draw a number out and that is where they start. This would keep there from being 2-3 hours between point runners hooks. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
But doesn't being the best of the best also mean that you are good at reading these variances and adapting to them? As many people have said on here, pulling is not just a dyno competition and it is on a dynamic dirt surface. Even in a class of ten, these conditions can change and people move the cone, move weight, change their line etc. etc. To me, the best thing about Bowling Green is that you get to see tractors/trucks that you don't normally see. If you eliminate this open gate policy, you take away some of that magic. And it is pulling so the opposite is true where a GN or CT competitor will show up at the county fair to support the local show (or for the steal) do you want that to go away too? I get what you are saying that maybe you should showcase your top equipment but in the end it is a competition and competitors on all levels need to adapt to the changing conditions just the same. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2021 05:20AM by mh49. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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LSS Fan
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I understand the comment about reading the track and making necessary adjustments. That is part of pulling. However, with 50 in a class the track can change to such a degree that you really have no chance at winning (of finishing in the top 20), no matter what adjustments you make. That being said, I hate the idea of limiting the number of pullers and the thought of flights. Pretty cool to see the underdog win at BG every now and then.
I do like Goldclub's idea. A simple fix, for the points aspect, would be to have the points contenders run in a group within the class. Whether that is at the beginning or middle, it could be agreed upon I am sure. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Posts: 1,159 |
I think that takes away from the sport. Part of it is the luck of the draw and that's a part of pulling that can make things interesting. Again, my own opinion. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Better idea,in a 2 hour plus class that hooks at 7pm when it's still sunny and hot,if your at the beginning of class,bump sled say you broke,drop to bottom for a hook after 9 pm.once half the class kills over an hour,heats sure sound like a good idea |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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I agree with the sediment that if your good then you ought to be able to read the track. Specifically at Bowling Green I think to the original posts comment about having too many out there and 2-3 hours between first and last hook with changing conditions, were you at the 50th BG pull? What are your thoughts on them having 50 guys friday night, 50 guys Saturday night and then having the top 5-10 I can't remember what the number was pull on Sunday for the Ring? I think that keeps the open door policy of allowing anybody to compete while also allowing for the top 5-10 to go head to head with similar conditions in a final. Personally I loved this set up and would love to see it come back. That or bring back pulloffs at BG |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
The other thing to consider here is let's say you pre-commit and pull every event on the GN stage and you are leading or in contention for the points title. You go to BG and have one bad hook and now you have 25 competitors between you and the next competitor who has also pulled all year. There's no way you recover those points with one or two hooks left in the season just because you had one bad hook. Yes bad hooks can happen but it's compounded when there's 50 other competitors and you're only fault was that you're random number wasn't a good one.
I'm all for having people fulfill their dream of pulling at a big event, I remember the first time I pulled at Tomah after watching there for decades, but I shouldn't allowed to screw over the competitor that was dedicated to every event. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Art Deco
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I don't believe that having 25 competitors between you and the next pre committed pullers changes your standings in the points race. I think they've already factored in that in the points race oh, I could be wrong |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
I think this changed for NTPA this year. I saw several classes where there are less NTPA GN licenses than there are trucks in the points standings. Just one example is SSFWD trucks, there are 11 GN license holders (and only 4 precomit GN) but 13 trucks in the points standings. In Minis there are 16 with GN licenses but 22 in the standings. At Fort Recovery there was a truck that only made two hooks all year but finished first and the truck that was second in the points was 10 points back at that hook according to the standings. There were 17 hooks at that event where are most events there were 4-6 hooks so in a normal GN the last place puller would have only lost 5 points at most, at Fort Recovery they lost more than double. I think Hillsboro has a nice rule for TWD where they only allow pre-committed and BSTP members to pull in the class. Still I think there were 22-27 hooks but better than 50. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
This was confirmed at BG. Just ask Todd Dugan. He went from leading the points race by 8 points to be being behind by 2. He had one bad hook on Friday afternoon and finished almost last. Lost 10 points in a single hook when the vast majority of events had 4-5 trucks all year. He finished just one spot behind the new points leader on Saturday. There's only one hook left and if the same four trucks show up he will have to park his two trucks plus ask for help from the third truck to win the points championship. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 303 |
This isn't BG's fault. This would be the NTPAs fault. This only happened because there were several truck running grand national points all season that only hooked a couple times and beat him in BG. It's not like they count all 50 guys in the class against him in the points. It's more or an ethical thing on the part of the guys who signed up to run grand national points and only hooked twice. They screw over guys like Dugan who hooked every weekend. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Just Sayin’
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Completely agreed BrandonA! You can’t point the finger at the sanctioning body when the other trucks signed up to run GN and then pick the events they wish to attend. The SSD 4x4 group seems to attend certain pulls with 4 or 5 and then 15-20. That’s just looking from the outside. I just simply can’t fault the NTPA on this one. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Just Sayin’
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You also have to factor in that only GN point earning/license vehicles matter also (related to points, not payout). If you place 5th, you do g necessarily get 5th place points if 1-2 competitors aren’t GN licensed |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
See my response and example above. I do not think this is the case any more for NTPA and even if it was there may be some competitors that sign up for the license for two events (i.e. Tomah and BG). You would still have the same issue. It just doesn't seem fair to those that commit to every hook and I know life isn't fair but eventually the number of competitors that sign up for pre-commit and make all the hooks will go down. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Everyone seems to not realize the factors no puller can overcome in a 30 hook plus class
Weather,sunlight,dew/moisture coming up,temperature |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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This is what I find dumb about the gigantic classes like this. There are certain things no one can overcome. Draw order in a pull is important but a good puller should be able to overcome that in many situations. There's just no way in many classes like this. |
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Re: How is 50 pullers in a class considered "grand national"
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Like that great philosopher Yogi Berra said "nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded"! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Same point how is it a honor to chosen to NFMS as a Prostock
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It's time to shake up the powers that be philosophy. It's not working anymore if there was a another pull even close NFMS would be empty. Maybe put a session of LLSS (not a fan) or a couple 4.1s, light pros at BG. Show has got stale with fans and pullers just my 2 cents. |
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Re: Same point how is it a honor to chosen to NFMS as a Prostock
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Yepp
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Little change never hurt! |
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