Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 26, 2021 03:04PM
Disclaimer- this is multi-pronged, somewhat interrelated, and therefore, lengthy. People talk about taking the sport "to the next level," or thinking outside the box. With that in mind, here are 4 big ideas. Maybe people will not like any. Maybe one or two could work, with alterations. Here are 4 big picture concepts for Bowling Green and/or NTPA. Bowling Green was great this past weekend, but the Blue Shirts always try to make it better. Here are a few ideas.

What could pulling generally, and Bowling Green specifically adapt from other motorsports?

Idea #1: Bowling Green Pre-entry

Pulling should look to other forms of motorsport to find things that may be applicable. The one most like pulling in a number of ways is NHRA drag racing, in large part because every NHRA National event has both Pro (GN) and Sportsman (RN) classes. Did you know NHRA is divided into 7 Divisions (equivalent of RN), and 4 Regions for the Top Alcohol classes (similar to NTPA Pro National).

Their Bowling Green is (US Nationals in Indianapolis on Labor Day weekend). At the US Nationals, there will be a total of 17 separate divisions of competition, almost every Pro AND Divisional class. At even the smallest NHRA National, there will be at least 8 or 9 separate classes.

Here is an idea that’s specific to Bowling Green, adapted from NHRA (reason it’s specific to Bowling Green is, with the rare exception of maybe TWD at Tomah in a normal year, this wouldn’t be needed…. But it would be a welcome addition).

NHRA has pre-entry for all National events. They have a website that anyone can access to look for entries: NHRA National Event Registration website . This may not be needed for NTPA as a whole, but Bowling Green perhaps could do pre-registration to help with pit parking.

Incidentally, this is one of the main reasons NHRA has pre-entry. I’m not advocating limited entry for BG like they do at Chapel Hill, just use it to have a solid idea who’s coming to help with puller parking (more on parking below). One thing that would be cool for fans is if the list could be available for general viewing like the NHRA pre-entry is.

Could Bowling Green feasibly increase the number of classes?

Idea #2: Adding classes to Bowling Green

Here is an outside the box idea that would A) increase the number of classes, B ) Help with the pit space issue with puller cooperation, and C) set an example of how multiple sanctioning bodies could work together.

The current schedule has 13 classes. Below are two sample schedules for 6 sessions, with 15 classes (5 classes per session) or 18 (6 classes per session). It would also work with a number in between (16 with Sessions I-IV having 5 classes and V-VI having 6 classes). (NOTE- Running on Sunday afternoon is already being discussed in the “BG Attendance” thread. Comments about that would be better made in the thread where it’s already being discussed.)

Following assumptions baked in the cake-
1) Light Unlimited is done after this year, replaced with Regional modifieds, sanctioned as Pro National, paying at least GN if not SN level purse. Any non-GN class would be a Pro National sanctioned class, I’d recommend paying SN purse for the largest pull in the world.

2) For the 18 class concept, I have listed PSDFWD. I realize NTPA doesn’t run this class outside of Sandwich, IL, but it would be a good addition, along with SMFWD which is still on the books, that could be run. The Ohio trucks plus a few from Mid South or Full Pull may show up as Pay per hook. Both PSDFWD and SMFWD should easily draw 15-20 trucks SMFWD could get that from Ohio alone.

3) But… but Shelbyville. Yes, I know PPL has had a Silver Series pull at Shelbyville, KY the past few years. This year they ran Light Pros and PSD FWD. I’ve taken that into account. Read on.

4) My solution to #3 is Shelbyville can run their pull as they have. For Session II, Light Pros who would like to pull at BG and also running for PPL Silver Series points (if 18 class model, ditto for PSD FWD) would run FIRST on Friday afternoon. For a noon start time, the PSDFWD should be done no later than 1:30; Lt PS maybe an hour later. Barring wrecks, construction, or I-75 in Cincinnati (if backed up, a puller could take the 475 bypass, longer but maybe quicker), the trip from BG to Shelbyville could be done in approx. 4-4.5 hrs.

In return, if the Shelbyville promotor and PPL would cooperate, their PPL Midwest Region Limited Pro Diesel FWD would run first at their Friday session (starts at 7PM EDT I believe), followed by PSD FWD and Light Pros in that order. It would be a hook, 4ish hours of driving, unload and another hook, but in theory could be done if BG, Shelbyville promoter, NTPA, and PPL could work together.


(Sample Schedule #1, 15 class model)
Th- LSS, RMod, Light PS, FWD, TWD
Fa- DSS, RMod, Light PS, FWD, SF
Fn- OSS, Mod, Limited PS, Semi, MI
Sa- LSS, Mod, Limited PS, SF, TWD
Sn- DSS, UN, PS, MI, SSD FWD
Su- OSS, UN, PS, Semi, SSD FWD

(Sample Schedule #2, 18 class model)
TH- RMod, LSS, Light PS, PSD FWD, SMFWD, SF
FA- RMod, DSS, TWD, Light PS, PSD FWD, FWD
FN- Mod, OSS, Semi, Limited PS, MI, SMFWD
SA- Mod, LSS, Limited PS, SF, FWD, LLSS
SN- UN, DSS, TWD, PS, SSD FWD, MI
SU- UN, OSS, Semi, PS, SSD FWD, LLSS

One other schedule thing- what’s the deal with starting 7:30 Thursday, 7 Friday, 6:30 Saturday? Just start your evening sessions at a consistent 7 PM and be done with it.

What about parking?????

Idea #3: If BG adds classes, what about puller parking?

Someone may say “that’s all well and good, but what about parking?” Valid question. Let’s unpack that. I am aware this would be easier with 15 classes than (up to) 18 classes.

From a layman’s perspective, even this year, if BG really needed to they could have put a few more in the show ring, formerly enclosed dirt area on the north side, and northside of the ½ mile track where they used to park more pullers. Maybe not a favorite spot as I understand it may get dusty, but they’ve parked guys there before. In the past the also parked a few guys on the far northwest corner where Scott Tedder pits (Larry Getz used to always park there), but this year it was largely campers, maybe Blue Shirts?

While not a great solution, in the past when PPL had Hamburg (2016 50th anniversary pull for example), the PPL guys parked on pavement just outside the puller entrance. Preferably, though, everyone would be inside the gates. In other words, even this year, if BG absolutely needed to park a few more haulers, it appears that could have been done even if not ideal.

A random check of 2009 and 2019 entries showed similar numbers (approx. 310 for each year). I counted 315 distinct vehicles this year in 2021. So, in a typical year, BG will have between 300-320 distinct vehicles. I do not know what % or haulers are carrying multiple vehicles, but several had 3 and many had 2. Let’s say room is needed for between 160-200 haulers to accommodate everyone (perhaps a Blue Shirt would have an idea how many haulers there actually were).

To help with parking, I propose a voluntary “buddy” system. Here’s how it may work using the Sample Schedule(s) above:

Using the above class schedules for example, perhaps BG could work with classes hooking in the first 2 sessions (Reg Mods, Lt Pros, PSDFWD), where in exchange for a perk (guaranteed parking spot on north side of grounds with easy exit from facility), those pullers in Reg Mod/Lt Un, Light PS, PSD FWD, who agree (aka voluntary, but agreed to up front… could be worked into a Pre-entry hint hint), would vacate their spots after their class is done Friday afternoon, and pullers in the last 2-3 sessions (Unlimited, PS, SSDFWD who would first hook Saturday or Limited Pro, Mini, or Semi Friday night using above sample schedule) would get those spots.

Again, not meaning to compel anyone, but if a puller knows they’re done Friday afternoon, and a puller first running Friday night or Saturday knows exactly where they will park, a type of parking buddy system like this could work well enough that all haulers could be parked on the grounds.

It was mentioned that NWOTPA may purchase the Wood Co Fairgrounds. Depending on terms, if they would be allowed to make modifications to the grounds, they could raze several buildings, pave or plant grass in show arenas, etc., and add parking that would be easier to access and exit. It may take a couple years to accomplish that, but that alone could expand parking, if the terms would allow it.

New class for NTPA or PPL?

Idea #4: Courtesy of Rick Feicht via Charles Poosch

Finally, Charles Poosch mentioned something one time after watching a Full Pull Productions pull, and I wish PPL or NTPA would take his idea, and it would be a great addition to Bowling Green. FPP has a Run What Ya Brung FWD class that would be an entertaining class, with modifications. The FPP version mixes SSD FWD, PSD FWD, SMFWD, at least one big cube nitrous truck, FWD modified (some of whom are larger than 650 cubes), other lesser powered Diesel trucks, and TWD.

Were NTPA or PPL to adopt this class, I’d nix the TWD. They have their own class with big numbers. I’d also nix the true SSD FWD trucks. They had 22 at BG. Limited Pro Diesel FWD also have good numbers and have their own points series in Reg. II.

However, especially for NTPA, if they had this type of combo class for pullers that really don’t have a home there (Blown FWD, PSD FWD, >650 ci n/a FWD, and it would be cool of they would also allow n/a nitrous), this could be marked as a legit Pro Modified FWD class (sorry PPL. Calling your FWD Modified class “Pro Modified” doesn’t make it a true PM class).

This could be a class that could fit at BG if NTPA could come up with rules for it, preferably ONLY for classes that are NOT currently ran for points within NTPA (meaning the following would be excluded: FWD Modified 650ci or less, SSD FWD, Limited Pro Diesel FWD, TWD as those divisions already run for points. This one’s for the other pullers). In the 18-class sample schedule, this would replace SMFWD and PSDFWD which would cause other shuffling, but it would be a cool class with the added benefit of allowing pullers who don’t have a home NTPA a chance to run.


Pleasing everyone is like herding cats. Doesn’t really work. We’re all individuals with personal preferences. Some like only smoke. Some like noise. Some can’t or don’t want a show over 3 hours.

There may well be many people who want to think of reasons something CAN’T be done. I’d like to see the sport and it’s flagship event think of reasons something CAN be done.



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 11:53PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 26, 2021 10:53PM
What dope are you smoking? Why would you want to mix the the fwds. It's already 40 in the class. The only reason Rick does it is to get numbers in the class. The SSFWDs put on a good show, they don't need to add the PSFWDs. The fans can't tell the difference.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 26, 2021 11:51PM
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Johnie
What dope are you smoking? Why would you want to mix the the fwds. It's already 40 in the class. The only reason Rick does it is to get numbers in the class. The SSFWDs put on a good show, they don't need to add the PSFWDs. The fans can't tell the difference.

Well, Johnie, since what you are saying I said is not what I actually said, perhaps you're the one who's smoking dope.

I did clarify the wording to make the intent clearer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 11:54PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 01:32AM
I think this is a great idea to keep moving the pull to bigger and better things! It’s already great but always room for progress. If your not going forwards your going backwards!
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 02:19AM
The rumor mill says Bowling Green won’t be at Bowling Green next year. one destination is Norwalk at the racetrack.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 03:29AM
Yep......and that's why they call it a rumor. Because that's all it is. And mostly a few individuals with an axe to grind that like spreading manure.
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Bowling Green and the Fairgrounds August 27, 2021 05:31AM
The pull in BG puts approximately $50 million into the local economy. Wood County would be wise to sell the NWOTPA the fairgrounds for $1 with a 100yr rental agreement for $1 per year so they can still have an annual fair on the grounds. The pull would be permanently grounded there and the county wouldn't loose all that extra revenue. The county could then collect taxes on the property and it would come off of their expenses for upkeep and maintenance. It's a win-win for both parties. The county shouldn't poke the bear or it might not be happy with the results.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

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Re: Bowling Green and the Fairgrounds August 30, 2021 12:39AM
I cant site my source other than to say they are a blue shirt, and I am a local, but the exact proposal you have suggested has been discussed. What I've been told is that the Fair Board is afraid the Blue Shirts will make too many necessary changes and they are afraid of change.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 05:29AM
The idea of adding regional mods is one I don't like. Just eliminate the light mods altogether. Keep the mod class and the unlimited's. As far as the rest of the BG ideas go I once heard an idea that I personally love. BG should not be open to all competitors. It should be set up as a true National Championship. I'll use pro stocks as an example of my idea. The top 5(pick any number could be 10 or whatever) pro stocks from each of the major associations based on point standings would qualify for BG. Major associations being PPL, NTPA, Outlaws. (Yes there could be others that's not the current argument). By doing that you make getting to BG a huge accomplishment, limit class size, and open it up to allow for more classes.

You could also do something similar to NCAA basketball and weight it. Maybe PPL and NTPA get top 10 vehicles in points into BG, Outlaws get their top 3 and state associations get 1 each. I'm spitballing, the specifics don't actually matter you get the idea. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this Original Michael??????

(Obviously this wouldn't be possible until the NWOTPA gets rid of the NTPA and runs BG as an independent pull)
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 06:07AM
Quote
BrandonA
The idea of adding regional mods is one I don't like. Just eliminate the light mods altogether. Keep the mod class and the unlimited's. As far as the rest of the BG ideas go I once heard an idea that I personally love. BG should not be open to all competitors. It should be set up as a true National Championship. I'll use pro stocks as an example of my idea. The top 5(pick any number could be 10 or whatever) pro stocks from each of the major associations based on point standings would qualify for BG. Major associations being PPL, NTPA, Outlaws. (Yes there could be others that's not the current argument). By doing that you make getting to BG a huge accomplishment, limit class size, and open it up to allow for more classes.

You could also do something similar to NCAA basketball and weight it. Maybe PPL and NTPA get top 10 vehicles in points into BG, Outlaws get their top 3 and state associations get 1 each. I'm spitballing, the specifics don't actually matter you get the idea. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this Original Michael??????

Hello Brandon. Outlaws largest pull of the year is the same time as Bowling Green. Even within NTPA, WTPA and sometimes UPM also have hooks that weekend.

At the end of the original long post of this thread, I remarked about different folks having different preferences. Personally, one of the things I like best about BG is precisely the fact that one sees large fields of vehicles that are rarely seen anywhere else. I do appreciate the opposite position, that it should be the elite of the elite. I liken it to the NHRA comparison- the US Nationals has (by far) the largest sportsmen fields of racers of any NHRA race. In my mind, I think of Bowling Green the same way in the sport of pulling. Again, just personal preferences.

The closest current pull to your Championship scenario would be Louisville. Perhaps a non-sanctioned outdoor US version of the European Championships that would incorporate top points winners from multiple organizations would work better late in the year when most orgs are pretty much done (last weekend of September/first weekend of October), depending on harvest for pullers who farm for a living.

(One other factor is which rules to use? Do FWD use NTPA, or PPL/Outlaws? Do TWD use NTPA/Outlaws, or penalize the t-buckets 200# like PPL? Outlaws PS rules or NTPA/PPL). It would be a great idea if logistics could be worked out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 06:12AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 27, 2021 06:06AM
LIGHT PROS DON"T DESERVE EVERY PULL IN THE COUNTRY!!! THEY HAVE THEM AT TOMAH, SO GO PULL THERE!
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Re: Other schedule options August 27, 2021 06:40AM
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The Original Michael

.

Here are two other schedule options-

1) With some hesitant to have a Sunday session, what if there were 6 sessions, but they started Thursday afternoon and ended Saturday night (aka 2 sessions each day)? How many pullers that run in the current Session I on Thursday night are already on the grounds Thursday morning anyway?

Adding one other enhancement they did during the 50th Pull in 2016-

2) If there were 6 sessions, what would be the thoughts about having however many classes are ran have 2 hooks in Sessions I-V, and Session VI be Finals where the top X from each class come back for Finals (whether that is Saturday night or Sunday). This is similar to what they did in 2016.

However, Instead of limiting to 5 per class like they did in 2016, I'd rather them do 8 - 10 per class, with caveat that the winner of a Prelim hook automatically advances to Finals (hence, with 50 TWD, if a puller wins hook 1 and gets DQ in hook 2, that puller still makes Finals even if he/she is outside the top X points vehicles that qualify for Finals).

If BG wanted to wrap this up Saturday night, this would look like:

Prelim sessions Thurs day/night; Friday day/night, Saturday day (all classes get 2 prelim hooks); Finals-Saturday night. .
Hopefully the sled would be set tight enough for no pull-offs, Maybe they could apply the Ricky Rose rule- run the GN 7500 mods first and unlimiteds last in case someone would qualify for both Finals and may need to add an engine.... OR, run Unlimiteds first and Mods last. If someone breaks an engine, may work better to remove the wounded one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 06:42AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Other schedule options August 27, 2021 12:27PM
If it aint broke dont fix it. I say it aint broke.
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Re: Other schedule options August 27, 2021 12:38PM
I have to agree, why change the biggest and best pull in the world. One thing the blue shirts do year after year is fine tune their show. No classes need to be added or subtracted. It's the only NTPA event that has all the classes. Leave it alone.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 28, 2021 03:30AM
The Blue shirts do an amazing job and continue to make improvements. I agree if it's not broke, don't fix it.
Look at how some that you would consider aren't in the top 10 finished this year. I don't think limiting who can come is a good decision, for example you wouldn't have had Scott Tedder or the Jostocks simply bc they didn't run grand national?? Two of those landed in the top 5 of the mod class. Feiss' are strong competitors in any class they choose to run. If you start limiting competitors, will that change the crowd? Lots of pullers, sponsors and fans show up not only for the pull but for the make-a-wish auction. Each change can have a heck of a ripple effect.

As far as parking and moving spots, that is a pain in the ass and asking for trouble. Leave it the way they have it set up.

However, if people enter simply to get a parking spot and don't hook, should have to give up their spots the following year. Especially if its a consistent thing.

Why do ppl always have to find stuff to change or complain about? I for one am really happy with the show/event the Blue shirts put on.
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 28, 2021 12:47PM
9nly tu jing I'd like to see is a good streaming option on the campgrounds,wifi ??,yes I'd pay for it..and a width limit on the buggys,a full size tractor and hay wagon is just a traffic jam,maybe a 6 ft width limit..
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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA August 29, 2021 02:13PM
For me, I'm completely satisfied with the length of the BG show as it is. I know my perspective is different than most fans because I work at the event doing their photography but after 5 session I'm ready to be done. We're there early in the morning and we have to stay to the last award is given. When it boils down to it I'm still just a fan that holds up a camera with the sole purpose of getting a better seat than almost everyone else, but after that many hooks in the blazing Ohio sun I don't want another afternoon session. I'm burnt out by Saturday night. I know tons of blue shirts feel the same way and love the event but they're tired by Saturday night. No pull on Sunday gives those blueshirts a chance that night to kick back, unwind, party, relax, decompress, etc... without another session looming over them.

In a perfect world I'd add some classes and limit class sizes, but life isn't always perfect and I don't want to eliminate the David vs. Goliath storylines at the biggest pulling event in the world, so I'd say just leave it alone until the GN classes have additions or changes and then make changes accordingly.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: Thinking outside the box: 4 ideas for Bowling Green and NTPA September 02, 2021 04:44PM
Why would have LSS on Thursday? OSs and DSS make more sense on that day. Also love how you have it all figured out how pullers are going to jump through loops on i475 so they can also get a @#$%& day at BG. MORE WATCHING PULLS INSTEAD TRYING TO CHANGE HISTORY.
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