11:08:17am, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
2021 NTPA Super Stock and Modified Rule Proposals topic has been great and I didn't want to derail that thread but I have a question or two about track length. So it really wasn't too long ago when we were using a 300' track, fans knew with certainty what to expect and exactly what the pulloff distance needed to be. We made the jump to 320' and PPL went with a floating full pull line that was set at some arbitrary time and even on occasion or two the pulloff distance was changed in the middle of the class. I think we even brought back the top three at one point at Bowling Green. At the time everyone said 320' was enough. Now we've got floating finishes sometimes with passes to +380', 350' sometimes, and even sometimes we have 350' announced at the drivers meeting but it's changes to a floating finish in the middle of the class. Pullers don't always know what to expect and fans really don't have any idea what's going on at any given time.
So here are my questions in light of the fact that the track length has been evolving at an increasing rate lately:
Follow-up questions: As track length increased speed also increased but the time for a pass hasn't gotten any longer... is there a safety limit for speed or can it continue to increase? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
I certainly don't understand what a floating finish really means. Either the track is specific length (300, 320. 350) or the other scenario is whomever goes the farthest wins. Call it what it is "endless track", " farthest finish" . Stop using the term " floating finish" it means nothing. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2021 12:34PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Track Length
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Pulloff
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I agree. "Floating finish" is STUPID! TAKE A LOOK AHEAD and thanks for leaving my post up on the other thread. Jake, you know who I am and I kind of let it fly there. I really didn't mean to offend any one with what I said. |
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Re: Track Length
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Here lies the problem as a puller I've listened to you experts. You want a 4hr show with a 100 hooks. So there's no time for pulloffs and pullers don't want to run again after going 320 for a full pull. Sleds are built for fast passes so it hard to stop them at 320. Hook this new JUNK to a sled from the 90s most won't even move it because the drivers have never hooked weight until the last 30feet. You know what I'm talking about Micheal,Jake,and Dick when the knives dig in you've felt the seat belts tighten. |
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Re: Track Length
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My Opinion
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I agree....As a both a puller and a spectator I've been around pulling for over 50 years starting with walk on sleds and finally progressing up to todays racing sleds...In my lifetime I've probably been to 800 pulls or more..In my area about 25 years ago I and lots of pullers and fans got tired of lengthy time consuming parts breaking pulloffs..The pullers got to where they wouldnt even come back for pulloffs and just split the purse and points..The pullers all voted to go floating finish...Many years ago at one state level pull at nearly 2 AM in the morning after a night of pulloff after pulloff, there were just 5 of us left in the stands..The crowd had all left hours ago...Most of todays crowd wants a fast paced 3-4 hour show or they are gone...The times have changed.. If people want to go back to 300 ft tracks, hard to start sleds,pulloffs galore,then you you will have to drag out the old 1980's and 1990's sleds..You will also have to drag out all of the old lower horsepower pullers with long bar tires on them...About 20 years ago I was at Henry,Illinois when half the 30 plus TWD's came back for a pulloff and there was tons of boos....Pulloffs have been a thing of the past for so long in my area that 50-60% of the crowd has never even seen one. As for track length I'm in an area of open country where almost every track I pull on is from 330 to well over 350 ft long..I pull a state level tractor and the farthest I've pulled this year is 326 ft....The shortest where I ran right is 282 ft...The sled operators do a good job of keeping things under control and I've seen no issues with safety...They like to stop everyone from 300 to 330 ft...Usually its closer to 300 than it is 330..They seldom ever have to restart a class. Yesterday I pulled at a pull and went 309 ft...Today I'm just going to be a spectator at a huge pull with a 310 ft track that will last 5-6 hours even with no pulloffs...I could say lots more but I had better get to bed...You that want 300 ft tracks had better start a nostalgia pulling group and go back to early 1990's pulling to see if it will fly again...I'm betting that it wont.. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I do think pulloffs can be part of this discussion but that's not what I'm asking about. Pulloffs can happen on a short track (240' at the NFMS) or long track (350' at BG) and anything in-between. Pulloffs are totally independent of track length. I want to talk about track length: Is there an ideal length? Is it ideal for ALL classes? What is that ideal length... (for either ALL classes or for each individual class)? Why would any given length be ideal? how many years until it's not ideal or will it be ideal forever? etc... first before we discuss the secondary issues like; speed, show length, pulloffs, whether floating finish is a good phrase, etc... I do think a discussion of fan confusion about track length is completely valid because as we change lengths we add a great deal to confusion, to me that seems to indicate that constantly changing track lengths from year to year or event to event is not ideal. Maybe that's part of the discussion, should we have different lengths at different venues alll summer? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Pulling Tractors and Trucks are not built to pull 340ft or for damn sure 390ft. The question of track length is not even up for discussion and shouldn't be discussed by people who have never hooked to a sled. Tracks should be 300-320ft and if that means pulloffs so be it but as stated above most won't come back. I stated my thoughts on track length. These new race sleds can barely stop a 10Pro or Unlimited Mod in 320 ft. Bricks on the pan gives them traction and the boxes are full. My opinions on this discussion is just ignored by most of us in pulling since you want 4hr shows but also want pulloffs can't have both. |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
I used to be a 300' and a pulloff diehard. I still like pulloffs, but after talking to many who do this at a high level (some even have said so on this website) and seeing the datalogs and how it really affects mini tires especially, I have come around on this one. A 348' drive on a modified a few week back helped me inderstand. I am good with the 330 to 350 if there is space to do it with shutdown. CP |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
This subject seems to be never ending and I've put my 2 cents in many times and everyone seems to differ on how things should and I get that. I've pulled slow old style sleds as well as modern fast sleds, I personally very much prefer modern fast sleds.
That brings me to the track length part of this discussion. A sled operator once told me that if a mod tractor gets going over 31 MPH he can not stop them inside of 300'. I really think the fans and a lot of pullers have come to expect and enjoy the fast long runs...I know I do. In the Heavy Unlimited class if they are going to try and stop them inside of 300' it's going to be a slow boring class because the sled will be so heavy at the start that they will never get any speed at all. When the SFs go down the track faster than an unlimited the fans don't get it...how can that happen? It's simple they can let a SF run and still stop them pretty much any where they want. Not so much with 10,000 HP and a set of Mitas tires. We hear a lot about how the classes used to be , well back then they didn't have 10,000 HP or the modern tires. Sleds have had to evolve to handle those two things. Having said all of that I find myself asking a track official many times just before I hook if 350' is it or if I should keep going. I prefer to keep going but if there is a pulloff I'll be there 95% of the time, sometimes it just can't happen things break (this year a lot). I've only missed one pulloff in recent years and that was with my wife and we had a pull the next night 300 miles away so we split. So am I opposed to pulloffs? Not really but back 10 years ago I was in pulloffs at almost 1/3 of my events...that is too much and gets too costly with mod tractors! S'no Farmer |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,445 |
Todd kinda hit on my thoughts on the track length topic. With today's sleds that can make any and every class look exciting, I'm wondering what the fans really see. When a SF goes down the track at 31 MPH and a DSS goes down the track at 36 MPH and they both go 350 feet plus whats the difference? Now before everyone say's if you can't tell a SF from a DSS then you're pretty lost. I'm saying they look the same to the average fans. They do not see the difference in HP from one class to the next. Maybe track length should be different for each class. Maybe SF should spin out at 310', Lt. PS\ Lmt. PS at 320, PS 330, LSS 335 and DSS at 340 plus . Lt. Mods 320, Mods 330, and Unlimited Mods 340\350. Would the show benefit by showcasing the higher HP vehicles with longer tracks length? If everyone goes 30 to 35 MPH and everyone goes 350 feet plus whats the difference in the show? I realize that this puts a lot of responsibility on the sled operator, however most of these operators have been doing this long enough to come pretty darn close to be able to achieve these settings Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
There are many time on our way home from events that Tarry and I talk about the mod class being embarrassed because a class like SF will have distances around 330' and for one reason or other they hammer the mods at 280'. This very thing happened at Mason,Mi in 2019, the casual fan likley doesn't understand how this can happen. Tractors making 4 times the power going 40' less makes the show look fake to those fans.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Todd, imo this is where 1)a competent announcer, and 2) communication from Tech/officials comes in. If an announcer can point out the mod class had X # of additional 2000 lb blocks in the box, and/or the box topped out at X feet on the SF class but tops out at X feet for your class, or other changes (of course, this can easily be communicated by Tech), then the crowd should understand why one class stops at a different distance from another class. |
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Re: Track Length
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another perspective
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As a sled operator I'm going to somewhat disagree that these sleds can barely stop at 10 pro or unlimited. While in some instances that appears to be true it drives me crazy to watch them go indoors or to a fixed length track and suddenly be able to stop them. Honestly sometimes it's laziness in the sled settings, lack of sled maintenance (letting bars under the pan get worn way too far down before replacing, not checking accumulator pressure and letting it leak down over time) or just the promoter giving the mandate to the operator to "let them run" (I've had that several times). Just my opinion there's no reason to go over 330. Unless I'm told otherwise I shoot for 320 every time. Sure sometimes I mess up and get them at 350 but that's easily fixable with a reset IF they will let me. Most times they say leave it. A lot of sled operators still run their sleds in the same style they have for the past 20 years but what's hooked to them has changed dramatically in that time both in horsepower as well as ability to transfer that power to the ground. At some point it's not as simple as just keep adding weight and going up gears. We've got to adapt ourselves and our equipment in other ways. But understand sometimes those that hire us tie our hands. And for the record the fact that ntpa is one of the very top leaders in our sport and seems to change their track length/full pull rules almost yearly and then not even follow the rule half the time is extremely disappointing. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Another perspective, First I'm not saying they can't stop them I'm saying that on some tracks it would be slow and boring. Second they did change the mod rules at the NFMS because they were having issues stopping the mods with the PPL setup let alone the Heavy Unlimited. They went to the NTPA rules, 300 lbs less and less blower overdrive.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
The sleds have know problem stopping the tractors on the short tracks such as the farm machinery show and all other indoor tracks Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2021 12:54PM by Lewis Conner. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Dick Morgan...exactly! Though we have always had "floating finish". It is just that there has always been a limit and the sled operators/track official would decide if they were going to allow vehicles to get past that limit. Even with a 300 foot track, you were "floated" up to that number. I, too, wish the term "floating finish" had never been introduced to the sport--it is just so confusing. |
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Re: Track Length
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Pulloff
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Thank you Jake. And also what happens when a venue runs out of real estate to make a longer track for a "floating finish"? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2021 02:50PM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Track Length
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JaKe660
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1. It’s excessive
2. 2 years maybe 3. All indoor pulling will have to cease as there are few if any venues can accommodate a 350’ indoor track. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
Personally, I think it should have never changed from 300'.
I'm an old school fan of the sport, in that I was going to pulls as soon as I got a lic. to drive, (i'm 55 now), and would make as many pulls as I could when I was a kid, if I could get away from the farm.. The issue of track length is sort of like the issue of "rules" for all the many classes we have nowadays, which are two many, as far as I'm concerned. The sport of "pulling", if that's what ya''ll want to call it, has just become another form of drag racing, because, in my opinion, the sport wasn't kept in check in the early days........same thing happened to NASCAR, things got out of hand, genie got outta the bottle and they can't go back and now their fan base is falling apart. Jakes opinion piece comparing NASCAR and our sport, on this website, speaks volumes in regards to this. Well, our sport got outta hand to, did it not? Machines are getting stronger and stronger every year and now we're talking about lenghtening the tracks, (which we have been doing for how many years now), I'm just a fan, so what do I know. If track length was taken back to 300', would it be harder for those with the most power, to get the sled moving ? Would it benefit those who are under powered compared to the top dogs ? Does two much HP. and wheel speed eventually hurt you ? I can't answer those question, because I'm not involved in the sport as a puller in these high performance classes. Just saying, maybe keeping the track length to 300' might help reign in some of the problems we have now I very seldom attend "any" high performance pulling events anymore, seeking out local stuff that comes right out of the field, because it's truer to the sport, but that's just me. Sorry for the rant. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2021 06:38PM by JDpowershift. |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
It was something convoluted like the top three past 300 feet made the pull-off, anybody past 320 feet automatically made the pull-off. So, one class could have pull-off qualifiers of 305, 302, and 301...while others had qualifiers of 325, 320, and 319. Makes a lot of sense... If fans need a piece of paper to keep up with who can make a pull-off, you have made it too complicated. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook 
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Re: Track Length
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LSS Fan
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I believe 320-350 puts on a great show. If you have the room, I see no issue with pulling farther. So I don’t really think there is an ideal length. I do however hate floating finishes, I don’t want to live in a world where tractor pulling no longer has full pulls.
I don’t really like the, it’s hard on equipment so we don’t like pull offs argument. It is hard on equipment because everyone is running on kill the first pass. Bring back pull offs on a consistent basis and I bet everyone adjust their program so that their equipment is capable of making 2 hooks. Just my .02 |
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Re: Track Length
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Track reply
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If your going to mix classes ,as the nytpa does in NY .
The superfarm /limited pro/modturbo class, it affects the pulling. Superfarm will want it to be 300. Modturbo , 320-350 . I think organizations are trying to figure out how to keep the show fast , and keep as many pulling classes as limited as they can . The nytpa superfarm class, is the class to watch on the state level for a diesel class combined that works. I won't say that there isn't some hard feelings sometimes from superfarm to modturbo . But it is very competitive, and the fair track and track conditions dictate the track length and distance . I suggest you watch 3 or 4 pulls and you might get an answer . There #s are growing in that class because it's combined. The class goes about an hour . |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
1) 350' is plenty long enough. Please, no longer. I wouldn't mind 300 (not going to happen, that ship has sailed); I wouldn't mind using the European 100 meter length (which is approx 330'), or whatever. To me, a more important issue than arguing about how long the track should be is for organizations (NTPA) to decide on a length and stick to it. Also, follow your own published rules on track length, which they have not done this year except at Bowling Green. A multi-time champion Unlimited puller famous for running "dump truck motors" once said about unlimited rules on another pulling message board that the best thing that could be done regarding rules for his class was not changing them every year. I would urge NTPA to apply this same though process to track length. Pick one, stick with it, and follow your own rulebook. If they want 320, 330, 350, whatever, make it a rule going forward for at least 5 years. 2) If they would leave it alone, it could be permanent. Unfortunately, every year (including this one) someone(s) proposes rule changes to track length. 3) That should never be an issue. If a sled cannot stop a vehicle in 350', it's time to rein in the class, or come up with a new sled design (aka build a better mousetrap). If push comes to shove, the winner of that conflict will be imposing limits on modified tractors. I don't think any other class is near the point of sleds not being able to stop them. NHRA has gone from 100% nitro to 90% for Top Fuel and Funny Car, and after Scott Kalitta's death in 2008, changed from 1/4 mile to 1000 feet. When Kalitta died, nitro cars were running over 330 in the 1/4 mile. Now they're achieving those same speeds in 1000 feet. It's hard to rein in technology. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2021 03:20PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 203 |
First off I own and run a light limited super stock diesel tractor. I will not come back for pull off. IMO it's too hard on motor. A good sled operator with a good sled can stop you any were they want to. I was out benefit pull Monday, the sled operator came over to me before the pull started and asked me how fast I could go and I gave him range from 27 to 30 mph, Track was 340 feet he said he would stop use around 300 feet and said to me your stop speed will be 27 mph. I won the class at 299" 10" 27.7 mph and total time under power according to data logger 12.5 seconds. Time under power are what counts. Have been at short tracks with heavy sled setting where it take 15 to 16 second to go same distance. My point is set the sled according to track length, conditions, and the pullers machines and you can put a good show on for the fans. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
For SSDFWD I would guess almost everyone of the competitors prefer 320-340. The reason being we rarely get into the throttle until 150-200 ft depending on the track. Set the sled too heavy to stop at 300 or less you can't get off the start line and you're half to three quarters throttle the whole way.
My preference is around 320-330 with a pull off after 350 (but avoid pulls offs if possible as the time to get ice and fuel and get weighed and cool the engine off just a bit is super rushed and zero time to plan for the pull off run). Another option would be to pull of after 330 feet but perhaps let a class go before you pull off or hold all pull offs to the end of the show. That gives teams plenty of time to get ready, is much easier on equipment, and provides a grand finale for the crowd. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So 320'-330ish seems popular and would give some room for a monster pass. A distance of 350' is fine with me too if we can do it safely given those occasional monster passes. I do think picking a distance and sticking with it at all events would be best for the sport (for both pullers and fans) I know there are some facilities that can't handle a longer distance so I don't think it should be a completely rigid rule at the state and regional level, but I think on the National Level it should be something that we don't compromise on. Pick a distance and stay consistent on enforcement/interpretation. The NTPA and PPL should pick a distance together that they're both aiming for and stick with it from week to week and year to year so sled operators don't have to remember that one club does 320 and the other wants 370. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
I really don't have an issue with track variability. Safety has to be the main concern. Only drag racing has venue consistency. No other form of motorsports does. Everywhere else, competitors have to adjust to the venue and the provided conditions. Make the track length anything you want, just let it be known in the driver's meeting and then stick to what was said for that event. It really can be that simple. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I completely agree about what's said at the drivers meeting and sticking to it but don't you think fans should know what to expect at an event., maybe at least one constant in the sport. It would even effect little things like where to sit... 300, 330, 370 Where should I buy my seats if preassigned or where should I put my lawn chair if I get there early? How will fans know what distance constitutes a fullpull? or are we completely doing away with fullpulls? IF we're doing away with fullpulls then what happens in the event of multiple monster passes in a class and not enough room to let them burn in and they both get a red flag? Do they always split the win? No full pull and no pulloffs seems like you're removing two very popular fan aspects to the show and I know some plers don't make a second pass, but plenty of others are always willing to run again.
The comparison to drag racing seems like the absolute best comparison for pulling. They have a known track length that's a constant from event to event and the measured variable is time. For pulling there would be no known constant in the sport anymore. Everything would become a variable and that would seem confusing to many. It also might open the door to an event saying we've got the room and we're going to run them to 450' because we can. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
I went and looked out of sheer curiosity and the absolute oldest thread that has survived on this board is about this very subject. 12 years later, we're STILL talking about it.
The historical significance of 300' and pulloffs was on the wane before then. I would say there is a direct correlation between drag racing track length and measured performance. Pulling was, is, and always will be, an artificial abstract ultimately set by a sled operator at the start of every class. CP |
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Re: Track Length
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plum krazy
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Not all new tech,-progress and innovations are for the good, some MOST CERTAINLY ARE, which ones ----- is the million dollar question. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I agree with everything you've said... but just because something is on the wane doesn't mean it's best for the sport. Reasonable pulling budgets have been on the wane for a while but increased cost for the pullers hasn't been good for the sport. Purses adjusted for inflation are on the wane and that's not good for the sport. The number of state and local fairs is on the wane and that doesn't seem to be great either. Brand loyalty is waning and I think that has taken something away from the sport.
I know that we don't have to agree, but I see more problems than benefits from having different track lengths at different venues. I think we should have something consistent from venue to venue. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
"Reasonable pulling budgets" (?) Once you leave "bone stock" or "out of field" pulling, where about all ya do is turn up the pump , it's going to get expensive. More power = more $$$. Even in antique pulling, it's getting up there. Some can afford to spend more than others and that's just how it is, and I don't see a "fix" for that issue either, imo. I was able to pull a few tractors, (belonging to friends), in "bone stock" classes when I was in my 20's........,about as affordable as it gets. I agree also, that there needs to be consistency in track length. Most fairs I go to have the stands set up for 300' tracks, and if you go 350".......or more, the fans at the starting line end of the track, don't really get to see the end of the pull. If the sport decides to go to pulling track lengths of more than say 330 or especially 350' or greater, they need to push the starting line back that much more, or greater. The finish line needs to be kept at a point not exceeding the end of the bleachers, especially if the sled is set so "everyone"......or close to it, goes the full measured distance , and the time to cover that distance becomes the new "object" of the sport of pulling. Just throwing something out there from a fans point of view regarding track length. I've been considering, (over the last two years), starting a circuit for stock tractors, doing something similar to what is being discussed in the other ongoing discussion regarding "Pull speed" started by Patches, and timing the runs to a distance of 300'. I said "similar" , in that the sled will be of a deadweight style . That's why I'm watching these discussions. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 01:41PM by JDpowershift. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
I'd like to read that discussion, cpr, could you post a link to it, or what page in these forums it's on ? Thanks |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I think this might be the thread cpr mentioned:
http://www.pulloff.com/phorum/read.php?2,10731,10731#msg-10731 I know this was a discussion topic well before that as well, I did lose quite a few years worth of threads because of a website crash as well as changing formats/programs for the forum and I was unable to archive the old forum software. I'm not sure of the exact year but we've been talking about this for a while. It's definitely not new and it seems like not too long ago 320 was more than enough. Now we already talking 350'. How long will that hold or is 350' going to last for a while? We've had runs in the 370's and 380's already so is 350' just a short -term stop gap on the way to 400'? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
Thanks Jake ! Wow, that discussion was in '08, at least in these forums. I don't follow high performance pulling all that much now, but what kind of travel speed do you have with a distance of around 380' ? |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
I still stand by that the sleds can stop these vehicles on indoor venues at 230'-270' distances. They can stop them on 300' outdoor venues if they want to. These extreme distances need to stop before someone gets hurt getting so much speed up. That is the whole reason the NHRA went to 1/8 mile tracks from 1/4 mile tracks. Yes the NHRA vehicles are now in the same time and speed as they were in 1/4 mile but at least the tracks have the extra shut down distance and sand to stop them at the end. Look at how far the VanGenderen tractor ended up on top of the sand when the sled had the malfunction and that was indoors on a limited track. What about the Case tractor that was also destroyed after going up and over the end of the track, last year if I remember correctly? Just lucky fans and participants are not getting hurt!!!!! When they do get hurt, it will stop all this nonsense. Do I not like an occasional big hook when things are perfect?? Yes I do. But it needs to be then when things are perfect and not the norm. |
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Re: Track Length
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My Opinion
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Of course a real good sled operator can stop the pullers close to where he wants them most of the time but that doesnt always happen depending upon track conditions-etc...He can even make it to where that we could barely even move the sled off the line...I'm far more worried about safety on shorter indoor tracks versus the longer outdoor tracks....These day most pullers and fans will tell you that they prefer a winning pull distance of 310-330 ft on a track thats 350 ft long..If theres room a couple of 340-350 ft winning passes really gets the crowd going. I'd sure hate to be a sled operator on a 300 ft long track trying to stop the 4-5 engine Mod classes without half of them going well past 300 ft while some are barely making 250 ft....I can even remember Bill Vories once saying on a forum that the Mods now need a 350 ft long track in order to put on a decent show. I can remember the old days of the 300 ft long tracks where some times almost every class had to have 1-2 sled resets to keep half the class from making full pulls..One year at a state fair pull one class had to be started over 3 times and we still had several out the end for what turned out to be a double pulloff...The class winner ended up making 4 hooks to win it...That was very unusual but it happened and the winner was not very happy about it.. My home town has a newer 400 ft long track with lots more than that for a safe shut down area... The average winning distance last year was 326 ft which is ideal. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
Here is another pull that just happened with an old sled that malfunctioned and just ruined a pasture fence. [www.facebook.com]
One of these days it will be a lot worse!!!! No need for the nonsense. Like I said above, I do like to see a long pull once in a great while. Would a puller rather see their tractor need a few more repairs or pay repairs to a family for injuring or killing their loved one????? The pulling tractor repairs would be a lot cheaper and easier on the conscience!!!! I will gladly fix my tractor anytime!!!!! |
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Re: Track Length
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I Was There
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For your information that pull was on a 300 ft long track and there were no insane speeds involved.Most pulls were in the 260-280 ft range.The pan didnt totally drop..I've pulled that sled many times with no problems..To my knowledge no one has ever been injured by that sled.. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
Never have said that sled has hurt anyone yet. Just another recent example of another sled malfunction and one of these days, someone will get hurt with the extra long distances from a sled malfunction or chain break or hitch break or something. That is why these extra long distances need to be reined in. |
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Re: Track Length
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One thing for sure that has come out of this conversation is how much control the sled operators have over distance. Let's just hope that they're all unbiased and aren't making decisions and adjustments based on preference. They wouldn't do that would that would they? |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
And this is why NHRA decided to shorten the track length. [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Track Length
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been around awhile
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cpr " Pulling was, is, and always will be, an artificial abstract ultimately set by a sled operator at the start of every class." Absolutely true.
And that helps to keep pulling interesting simply because it is a variable, just like the track soil, from event to event. Those factors sift out those pullers who know how to read the track, adjust their vehicle for such and whatever length the track will allow for an ultimate full pass / win. This was proven by the Shramek team at this year's Half Century of Progress pull. For 3 consecutive nights, no one was out walking and probing the track, until the last class of the whole event. Except for Dennis Shramek. I could see he was perplexed. How could the north side of that south track be so different than the middle and south side of the track? After all, everybody had been pulling literally the same path on the mostly wet track for 3 nights. It had rained Thursday afternoon, a couple hours before the first nightly session. In fact the side to side of the track was slightly horseshoe shaped. So when the PS class came, being the last class on night 3, all 3 Shramek's were out assessing the track and discussing strategy. As next to last hook, Braden parked the immaculate custom orange paint Agco "Young Blood", right next to the right line. And he drove perfectly along that line, in the dry dirt, for a very convincing pass, to a very approving large spectator audience, and the leading distance. One tractor left, he tried Shramek's line but a little further to the left and definitely fell immensely short. So, look at all the variables that existed here. Shramek's have never pulled here before. But their teamwork and professionalism combined with common sense assessment proved to be the winning combination. So did track lenght really make a difference here. IMO, not really. It was not a long track nor a short track. Differences existed within the track. Just had to go read and determine the tractor setup and driving tactic. That is what keeps pulling interesing, even when seeing the same pullers constantly from event to event. Have the same lenght track and literal sled setting, becomes more of a 'cookie-cutter' scenario. Thus, not so interesting. Thus, I do not agree with Jake's "I see more problems than benefits from having different track lengths at different venues. I think we should have something consistent from venue to venue." Remember, there are events that cannot even handle 320'. My hometown Region 2 venue can only handle 300'. Just watching Shramek's and their result was well worth my 3.5 hour trip from home. JD poweshift: "The finish line needs to be kept at a point not exceeding the end of the bleachers." I know of many venues, where that is not at all possible. You could also say the far side of the track should not be any further away from the granstand (bleachers) than, oh let's arbitraily say, 100'. That certainly is not always possible either. To prove it, just look at 2 famed events: BG and the Enderle. Personnally, I lost favor with pulloffs, decades ago. Why have them if the pullers are not returning for a full scale pulloff. In today's style of pulling, I am fine with a floating fisnish. Although I think lot of them are way too long. I'm fine with an optimum 320 win distance. And Dick, what does a "350 float" mean? I asked Scott Doty (longtime NTPA tech official) yesterday. If puller passes 350, float it out as far as you can. Thanks, Morgan's, for the thread. Been interesting. Even though it is a perpetual topic. |
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Re: Track Length
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
So in 5 years tracks will be 400 then 5 more years 450 etc. Crazy. Like already said the sleds can stop them on an indoor track so why not outdoors. Yea I don't like some of the tight settings but that's pulling. |
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Re: Track Length
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Just sayin
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I saw a 12500 open farm tractor pull 396' and the driver shut it down this past weekend! Closest pull to him was around 325. But yes 400 ' is a pretty long haul. Crowd liked it though!! |
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