01:05:15pm, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
|
The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Observer
|
I think it is safe to say that 9500 hot farm has become one of the most popular classes of 2021 and coming into 2022. The number of tractors in this class across the country is outstanding. Take the Shipshewana pull for an example, online registration has began and while most classes are getting around a dozen tractors in class if they're lucky, the 9500 hot farm is already booked up with 40 tractors in the class and im sure they could get another dozen if they open it up for more tractors. So my question is: where do you all see the future for the 9500 hot farm class? As super farms are turning into 4.1s could it be a possibility that hot farms take their place? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
This could be the next “super farm” boom. As rules are fairly close to being the same across the Midwest an eastern US. Seems to be the only budget class left as llss seems to be getting outta hand. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Great class
|
It is a great class, but far from a budget class. In reality it’s what superfarm should have been in the first place. I see the potential of another llss rules clash if they attempt another national rules set for them also. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
844
|
This class needs to be kept under control!! Out of box charger,510 cubes and 20.8 tires. Look at ppl western rules! |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Dear 844
|
Ppl west is profarm not hot farm and is 470 limited. Hot farm has been around a lot longer and has quite a following In Wisconsin and the Indiana areas. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
844
|
You know what I mean KEEP IT AFFORDABLE!!! Make it JD&IH 466 Case 504 White,Oliver &Cockshut 478 and Ford 472 or what ever they are. Just make it so a normal working class man can have fun. You can always move up to super farm or one of the limited pro classes if out grow it or can afford it. Just an opinion |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
9500 Hot farm is different in many places. Some places its 510 3 x 3.5 others hot farm means 466 3x3 a lot of both tractors around the country |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Dear 844
|
I hear you on affordable being great but that left the building years ago. The box charger isn’t affordable either but a little less than the badger state version. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
Now that the pulling season is pretty much done for the year now would be a great time to start discussing with your fellow competitors to get your local 9500 hot farm rules to match with the current ppl/ntpa 9500 hot farm rules. I know its been said before on here that all 9500 hot farm organizations rules are pretty similar but they are just different enough not to allow other organizations to pull with one another. So lets all work together and make 9500 hot farm a uniform class across the country. The ppl/ntpa rules are the national rules. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
? For hot farmer
|
Why? What’s the end game? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
The reason would be so that anyone can travel and pull with another organization and be competitive. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
? For hot farmer
|
So you feel like badger state hot farm should change their engine configuration and pump/turbo rules in case a 510 hot farm would like to come pull with them or should the 510’s drop back to 466 and a 3x3 smooth? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
A 510 hot farm probably would drop back if there were more 466 based clubs out there but there's not, majority of 9500 hot farm clubs are 510 and for your example of WI theres another club that's pretty close to the same area as badger state called NEW Motorsports and they are 505 (id like see them change it to 510 as well) and they seem to have atleast a dozen tractors at every pull but those guys aren't allowed to pull with badger state that's a few miles away because of small differences in rules. There isn't a price difference between a 3x3 smooth and a 3x3.5 slotted. The turbo builder will charge the same or the slotted may even be cheaper. There are a few tractor brands that dont offer a 466 option like a case 504, MF 510, or ford 474 (the ford 456 is way more expensive to get parts compared to the 474 truck block.) Im pretty sure decubig is not allowed in badger state hot farm as well. A badger state hot farm won at the midwest winter nationals last year with lots of 510 hot farms in the class, so its safe to say that if badger state changed their rules to the national rules that the current pullers wouldn't necessarily have to change anything to their tractors to be competitive. It would simply just allow pullers to travel and compete against other pullers from different clubs. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
First getting PPL and NTPA to agree on rules , is like herding cats. Second, What % will travel or choose to go follow a points race in it's own club. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
NTPA/UPM Profarm is the same as Badger state and that allows them to go back and forth. Also tri state has the same rules. The 466 3x3 Class has been around along time to ask them to change there rules to get a few extra people here in there is dumb. Same goes for asking 510 tractor changing down to 466. Each class has a good following of pullers just leave them as they are. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
Also, ECIPA allows the 20.8 tires along with the 24.5s. so the BSTP and tri-state could run with them. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
Ntpa/ppl already has agreed on the 9500 hot farm rules. They are the same in both ntpa and ppl. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
I dont see how changing the limit to 510 from 466 and running a 3x3.5 slotted instead of a 3x3 smooth would hurt anything. Im sure you all have a good class but doing this would turn it into a great class. Everyone would be able to compete with everyone, you personally may not see yourself traveling but theres others that would like to. Just give it some thought. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
ever here of a 451?
|
I love these cubic inch debates......it's amazing how narrow people's vision can be on what manufacturers made for engines.
Case made a 401, a 451, and a 504. So don't sit there and say that there isn't a case option for 466. People will always arm the argument to the side they are favoring. 466/470 is an extremely cost effective and easy to build cubic inch that gives almost every color an option. 510 is an imaginary happy number someone created because that's what they had. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hmmmm
|
Are you saying that new guys want to run badger state but created a ruleset that doesn’t allow them to participate in badger state? This is really pretty simple, if you want to travel build a setup you can make a legal entry out of every where you want to go. How many want to travel? I can’t think there are enough to justify an association making a change. If this was truly wanted by the majority of the pullers wouldn’t it have been done long before now? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
I second Hmmmm on his post. We don't have 510 hot farm in our area so why should we change. 100% completely agree you build for were you want to pull. And along the lines of Midwest winter nationals, aren't the 466 guys allowed slotted covers to make things more even. that isn't a comparison on how close they actually are. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
The midwest winter nationals mix the 510s and badger state rules together into one class. The tractor that won was a badger state tractor meaning he had a 3x3 smooth bore turbo also meaning it is a true comparison on how close they actually are. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hmmmm
|
They are close indoors because it allows the 3x3’s to use their torque curve. Outdoors the 3x3.5 slotted will eat the 3x3’s lunch. It’s a good 200 hp difference |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
will see
|
So when the pull is on 300'-320' indoors at Shipshewana, you saying that will be the same as the outdoor hook now? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
On a 320ft track I'd say its probably pretty close to outdoor pulling. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
will see
|
Should make it interesting then............... |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hmmmm
|
Did you pull at shipshewanna in 2021? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
No sir, i get that the short track at gordyville was an equalizer but i think the 320ft track at Shipshewana allows the powerhouses in the class to shine. But this forum wasn't about indoor tracks anyways, if you are a 9500 hot farm puller all what im asking is to think about making 9500 hot farm a united class across the country so that anyone can pull against anyone, just because you dont want to travel doesn't mean that others dont. Just give it some thought. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hmmm
|
Help me understand the benefits to your proposal. For example ppl sanctions hot farm at 510 in the indiana area and as 466 in badger state. Badger state consistently has 15 tractors run at each event. The pull dates between the two would often offer a pull in each area. If a rule unification to one ruleset or the other was made, what would be the financial benefit to the pullers or the organization other than an occasional different tractor to watch go down the track? What would the benefit be to the group that was allowed the most change? How would it affect the existing numbers, would the go up, down or stay the same? There has to be a benefit to the pullers and associations to invoke such changes. For me it would take more than the option of being able to travel. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
There's a few things that would benefit to change a 466 3x3 hot farm class to a 510 3x3.5 class:
1. Turbo- a 3x3.5 turbo is the same price as a 3x3. The slotted may even be cheaper, usually the turbo builder will charge more to slug a cover and machine smooth to make a smooth bore. So you'd be getting more performance for the same price. 2. 510 is only 44 cubes from 466, and honestly you probably would be just fine staying at 466. The 510 allows other brands to compete or to use their most affordable option. You gotta consider the other brands besides red and green. 3. 15 is a good number of tractors but opening up to these rules will let even more tractors pull with you and it will encourage future pullers to build for it because it will benefit their brand of tractor and they can pull with many different organizations. Overall this would turn your good class into a great class, more performance and more numbers, with no extra cost to the existing pullers. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Here's where economics teachings has failed. A 3x3.5 slotted might be the same price as the 3x3. That ignores the fact that these guys already own a 3x3. Cost to buy equivalencies come up in here thousands of times, but they ALWAYS ignore what a competitor ALREADY has. To say changing doesn't cost more is wrong. It will cost more for the guys already there. This comparison cannot be made. "A $3000 slotted charger is the same price as the $3000 smoothbore charger you already have" doesn't make quite the same argument anymore. Stop doing it. CP |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hmmmm
|
The slotted 3x3.5 is much more expensive than a 3x3 smooth. There are covers alone that cost north of 4k |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
Couldn't have said it any better! |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
There the old saying , if it's not broken don't fix it . So 15 tractors in Badger State and only paying 10 place , so more tractors benefit who? Your cubic inch proposal would benefit or Light pro class at 540 cubic inch with more tractors. I just don't see changing a class that has many numbers in the area. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
The pullers who already pull in the class can buy a slotted cover, just buying the cover isnt that expensive. But most pullers buy a new turbo darn there every year anyways to keep up with the latest and greatest.
If theres ways to improve things with in a class or a club then those things should be considered or thought on. But saying no instantly because you want to leave good as good enough is dangerous thinking and it may hurt the class or club in the long run. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Massey Fan
|
When purchasing your slotted cover, don't forget your remanufactured cylinder head, your custom intake, your exhaust header and your P-8600 injection pump. The only thing Badger State 466 hot farm and 510 hot farm share are tire size. As David said, if it's not broke, don't fix it. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Hot Farmer
|
Doing those things are really not necessary, those are not must haves. Many pullers dont have those and do just fine. Not a valid point. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Massey Fan
|
I'm confused. If those things are not necessary, why is it necessary for an association to change their rules to allow those things. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Don't understand
|
My question is for oly why would badger state tractor have a slotted cover to run at ship that seems like alot expense just for one pull if we are talking numbers |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
jeffl
|
A few organizations here in Illinois and Missouri even Iowa run a 9500 & 10,000 Pro Farm at 466ci, 3500 rpm & GT42 box turbo. Also if you are 467 to 640 cube you run 3000 rpm & & GT42 box turbo. This keeps turbo costs in check ( Not chasing turbo builders latest & greatest ) saving a lot of $. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
Not saying it was a badger state tractor. All I said was a 466 tractor. If you were a harts dealer and had the availability to put one on and try wouldn't you? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Don't understand
|
But I still don't understand stand Oly it says in your rules you are to run a smooth bore charger but you want to change your own rules at ship to run ppl/ntpa/IPL charger rules. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 460 |
It says badger state tractors are to run a smooth 3x3. So if the group this tractor was running with doesn't have a rule set on the page they can say they are hot farm, get a cover from harts to try and go to ship. Harts works well with dealers to try different things on new turbos. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
Think of this: more tractors= harder to get to 1st place. Yes it is nice to have more pullers. but 15-20 in a class every time is enough! More than that would take away the "entry level" and "budget" classes that people on here keep talking about. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
You also have to think about the people that don't want to travel all over the US. Think about those that are fine with the way they are. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
True, Some people do not care to travel all over but some of us out here would like the opportunity to travel. Being a competitor in the 9500lb hot farm in Indiana I wish the PPL/NTPA tractors and the badger state guys could come to an agreement so we would have the opportunity to go run in Wisconsin. Not saying I would be at every hook but maybe a long weekend get away a time or two in the summer. Would it ever be possible to merge? If there was a merger would their be the option of the Hot Farm class moving to PPL Silver Series? I am always looking to move up but the check book does not make that possible. lol |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
How does a box charger differentiate from a regular smooth bore? |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Dear 844
|
Box charger is stock out of box and less than half price of the smooth bore and 300 or so less hp |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Tomah winner
|
Why not 466? that's what outlaw runs, ecipa, badger state. |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
Registered: 03/17/2011 Posts: 187 |
Have Badgerstate have a non points pull sometime and invite us up. I agree with mike peters |
|
Re: The future of 9500 hot farm
|
So a class of 20 tractors is supposed to change their rules so that two pullers can come and pull with them once or twice a year? |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,564, Posts: 229,578, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,055, Posts: 225,839.
Global: Topics: 38,564, Posts: 229,578, Members: 3,319.
This forum: Topics: 37,055, Posts: 225,839.
Our newest member BadHabit2
