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Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Conor
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Are components still happening? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Truth
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99 percent of 4.1 pullers say NO!!! Go after the 85 lite pros and leave 4.1 alone!!! Thanks |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Lite Pro
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Whow Whow Whow… Leave us out of that. 99.9% percent of us don’t want it. You keep that guy. Lol |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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OG
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Allowing components in the 8500# Light Pro class is a no brainer. Also allowing pullers to "make" the rules for their own class is one of the crazier things the sanctioning bodies have done. The pullers should not make the rules, they can be asked their opinion but that's it. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.2 puller
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A few tractors are illegal to the current rules, so instead of making them comply we are looking to change the rule? Why?? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Dollars and sense |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Not looking for names of tractors or drivers, but I'm curious about what's illegal on them regarding the chassis. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Driveline has been lowered |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Is everything still in the factory housing? Is the engine still bolted in the stock location? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.2 puller
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Yes but the driveline is not in the stock location so it is illegal.
AKA halfbreed component. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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HP
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Show me the rule that states the driveline must be in the original location.
There is none in NTPA,PPL,OUTLAWS, States HOUSING. So, unless it is specifically stated, Pro Fab style transmission in a stock HOUSING is legal. Nothing about driveline location at all. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Who says this about NTPA, PPL or OUTLAWS? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
As was said above, I've never seen anything in ANY rule book about driveline location in an ag chassis. If the engine is in the stock location and the transmission housing and rear-end are being used then nothing else matters. The driveline could be in the upper corner of the housing, the bottom middle, the bottom corner, etc... and it doesn't matter. You could machine the housing out completely and just make it for decoration and it would still be legal as long as all the parts fit inside. Heck, I don't know if the rule book even specifies if the driveline needs to be inside the housing.
Can anyone point to a specific page an any rule book about driveline location? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.2 puller
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The housing is just not what you can visually see it is a 3 dimensional part with a blue print that defines it. If you machine out the inside it is not longer "stock". |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So you're saying ANY machining/grinding/modifying to the housing makes it illegal? Good luck trying to sell that to ANYONE. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.2 puller
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Not trying to sell anything just reading the rule. If people don't want to follow it that's a problem. So that exactly how we got here people don't want to follow the rules so we change the rules to fit what we have illegally done. Typical stupid human trick performed not just in pulling but all of society. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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What defines stock location of the engine. Try some critical thinking here. Example: input shaft is located 6” above pinion shaft in oem housing/ style transmission. Oem transmission is deleted and housing is machined for box/reverser type transmission with input and output of trans on same plane as pinion. What has to happen to get crankshaft on same plane as drivetrain shafts? No misinformation being spread just a lack of understanding 
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Posts: 158 |
And everyone would notice your block is sitting 6" lower from where it should be on the bellhousing and call you out.
Page 25 IV TRACTOR 1. All engine blocks must remain in original location as intended by the manufacturer. page 31 PPL rule book under super farm, some more clarification Chassis 8A. Components are not permitted. 8B. OEM rear-end, transmission, and engine must be in stock location, bolted and secured to OEM chassis. 8C. Engine cannot move independent or rear-end/ transmission housing(s). 8D. Stock transmission housing or manufacturer’s replacement and stock final drive housings or manufacture’s replacement. 8E. Chassis and frame must remain stock from rear of engine block to the rear of tractor. 8F. Tie bars are mandatory or full frame must be mounted rigid to engine, transmission, and final drive housings. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Funny you should post this. Money and machinists have a strange way of making things give the appearance that things are where they should be. Oh and if the frame rails get lowered 6” that engine is back in “stock” location |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If the engine is not in stock location in association with the rear-end then it's not legal. Stock location does not pertain to height with regard to the ground or else you wouldn't be able to lower the front of the tractor with smaller tires, lowered front axle, drop spindles, etc.... The precedent for all those things has been in place for years and years. The only interpretation of the "stock location" rule is in regards to it bolting to the rear-end. Not frame, not height, not front axle, not hood, not anything other than the rear-end or transmission housing.
If the engine is bolted to the rear-end in any location other than stock it should be illegal. That's a whole different animal. That's a whole different discussion. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Well that’s the discussion we’re having. With the right cosmetics in place most would never know the mods have taken place. Clutch blankets rarely get removed during tech inspection |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Well, framing the discussion properly matters. All you had to say was they lowered the engine.... Done. Lowering the driveline is a completely different topic to the vast majority of people. You could lower the driveline within the housing with a dropbox and it would be 100% legal. Lowering the engine is a whole different discussion. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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I believe in every post I’ve eluded to the fact that the crankshaft was on same plane as the pinion |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
See Fig, you are kind of doing the same thing as the rule makers when you elude. Even your term ‘same plane’ is vague. The factory JD has the crank and pinion on the same vertical plane, but different horizontal planes. Which is what I presume you are eluding to. If some are dropping the engine on a JD so that the crank is inline with the pinion shaft like the factory IH & Ford as you seem to be eluding to, I’d love to see a picture of how they are fitting the clutch in the factory housing. I guess cutting the bottom from the clutch housing isn’t really any different than cutting the top from transmission housing though, so within the concept of the factory castings just have to be present, there really isn’t a difference. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Deere puller, valid point, I should have said at same height. Stock location is a loose phrase. People with creative vision, a good machine shop and welder can make things appear as they should when in reality they are not |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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For real though. It makes this all hard because if someone wants to redo the chassis I wouldn’t want to spend all that money on OEM if the class goes component next year. It’s to the point now where I wish they would just do it so you know your not spending 30 grand on something that you can only sell to a limited amount of people.
All in all on a serious note. No one really knows at this point? Has any person of some power in any organization said that this is going to happen? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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For real though. It makes this all hard because if someone wants to redo the chassis I wouldn’t want to spend all that money on OEM if the class goes component next year. It’s to the point now where I wish they would just do it so you know your not spending 30 grand on something that you can only sell to a limited amount of people.
All in all on a serious note. No one really knows at this point? Has any person of some power in any organization said that this is going to happen? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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TOP. GUN
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The hub weld broke, not the cast reared. Yes it can happen in any brand/class. This is a concern but to me not a complete reason to chance the class. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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HP
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No one told me anything.
I can read the rule book. You ought to try it WITHOUT adding your OPINION in. Read JUST the words that are there. If the words aren't there, they aren't. To quote Mr. Ernie Connor , "if the rules don't say I can't do it, I can". I just hate when that happens. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.2 puller
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It states stock housing and everything about that housing should be stock by definition. The job of the housing is to "house" the driveline and other components. So to move the driveline in that stock housing it needs to be altered in some way which is not "stock" anymore. AKA ILLEGAL. You can read anything into the rules to fit your agenda. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Apparently there is a rule because some have been forced to change them back to original location. It’s a beneficial mod in particular with drivetrains which the pinion shaft is not on the same plane as the crank, everything gets lowered |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If there is a rule it should be pretty easy to show a page number in a rulebook. Please produce the evidence, otherwise you're spreading false info. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So according to your definition you can't alter a stock block either so everyone should be running stock cubes in the class (maybe .030-0.60 over but no more!) Your attempt to twist the rules make no sense logically. Stock doesn't mean unaltered and everyone knows that. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Tomah winner
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Correct. Stock means factory made with all the codes and rules, but can still be altered to fit desired specs according to rules. Good point. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Yeah, this is the point that they want to ignore because they are being willfully ignorant. This is nothing more than one or two guys that just want everyone else to change because they are jealous. Have these guys hit their own housing with a grinder? Then according to their idiotic definition they are illegal. Have they machined any of the rear-end for different bearings or gears? Then according to their own definition they are illegal. This actually might be one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen on this page. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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4.1 puller 94
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If you feel so strongly about this why don’t you just protest them? Not being rude just questions. You seem very firm in your position |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Joe Schmoe
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Keep it simple!!! Stock rear end housing. And let em go from there let’s see some good old fashioned ingenuity!!! No more cookie cutter classes!!!! |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
The original topic was components in various classes. I know this ship has sailed due to another poorly written / loosely interpreted rule, but to me factory housings maintain the factory shaft locations and contain the oil. Once the Profab & Atlasmax self contained gearboxes started going into housings with no top and in some cases cut so that only the sides are left, why not allow components? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Because it’s far more intelligent to re-engineer oem castings to accept all the same driveline components used in a component so you can still say you have an ag rear 
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Posts: 347 |
"Because it’s far more intelligent to re-engineer oem castings to accept all the same driveline components used in a component so you can still say you have an ag rear"
..........you couldn't have said this any better. This statement applies to all Ag chassis classes. It is amazing what some have done inside while retaining the "appearance" of stock housings. It truly begs the question why any OE Ag castings are a valid requirement in any tractor class anymore. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Why not just go to the classes that now allow components? Just asking. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Supertiquer, you’ve had both now, would you go back to an ag chassis? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Fig, the class I pull in allows it. This is not a matter of what I have since it's not a 4.1 limited pro. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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So the application of common sense need not apply? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Was the switch required? Why did you switch? |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
What does Clark's LSS have to do with 4.1s?
CP |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Because switching from an ag chassis to a component chassis is all relative. No superstock or prostock class started with a component chassis. All found a reason to switch from one to the other exactly like Clark did. I want to know his reasoning for doing so. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Relative is right.
3000 hp through 9500lbs is very different from 3500 through 6000. The reason wouldn't be the same. CP |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Fig
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Lol probably wasn’t using an oem drivetrain of the same nature as a 4.1. So yeah same deal just lighter |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
ummm... |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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OG
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The only reason to not allow components is so current competitors in a class can protect their turf. Does nothing for the sport. Is a safety issue. Silly really. |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Really about all the classes has custom gears input shafts custom steal carriers along with gutted transmission housings with profabs in there place if profabs are allowed which they shouldnt be mite as well be component because i just named enough stuff to make them that way if the profabs are allowed |
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Re: Component Limited Pro 4.1
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Fig, if you want to message me on Facebook go ahead if you are on it and I will tell you why I did what I did. I refuse to tell any one here why because this thread is NOT about me or the class that I pull in. I just simply asked a question. |
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