06:12:50am, Tuesday, April 16, 2024
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466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
What's the feeling of running a 466 with A-pump and intercooler in a P-pump no cooler class ? I've done some research and found the former Full Pull Productions used that rule in Western Pa.. We are in Northeastern Pa. and in an area that really has no organized 466 class. New York Hot farm runs P-pump. We really don't want to switch to a P-pump because that really limits us from running Pa. pulls. We have lost 2 really good pulls this season because of the high cost of putting a pull on. I'm just brain storming the possibilties. Thanks for your input. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Puller too
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I don't understand why people think that an A pump should be allowed to run a cooler and p pump not? If yall wanting A pumps spend the big bucks you can get an A pump to perform similar to a p pump. If you like The A pump sand box then by all means do so. I just don't understand why everyone always wants to give an advantage to the A pump guys. I guess because they feel " Entitled??? |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Cubic inch limits are a pain in the as*. Volunteers don't want to get screamed at for trying to enforce them. Open up the rules, no cut tires, and go pulling. You would be surprised what a guy on a smaller budget can make for power. Big turbos=big smiles |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 161 |
Here in KY there are very few open farm pulls. I wish there was more. I think it would bring lots of different Iron and from different states. Most times around here if you show up with anything over 470 cu you will catch very watchful eyes. Haha. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 06/15/2021 Posts: 17 |
I don't think a pumps are at THAT big of a disadvantage where they should get an intercooler and it be fair with non cooler p pump tractors.
I don't understand the a pump love you east coasters have. They have their place in a farm stock class but after that they should probably be upgraded. P pumps are probably about the same price but much more robust. Can everyone agree to change the rules to P pump and be done with it? Intercoolers are a pain in the rear anyway. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I agree the cooler is an extra item to maintain. I don't know why the east is so set on the A pump but it's been that way for a long time. We have pulled exhibition in the P-pump class and was of no threat to them. I guess in our case I didn't see it as a big deal. So other than running a P-pump then I guess we eliminate the cooler and then it would be ok to run with P-pumps. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Buckeye puller
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The reason they won't do away with the A pumps is because they want their own little sand box. And are afraid of competition. There is a select few that rule the "A pump " classes and they don't wannna get beat. It the big fish in a small pond syndrome. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I think the original thought was to keep the 619 out of a lot of classes but some 466's had P pumps too like a 4850. Some Super farm groups don't allow an Intercooler so there are lot of sand boxes out there. I knew when I asked the question it would get a lot of negative responses. Oh well it is what it is. We'll just play in the sandboxes we are allowed too. No big deal. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Buckeye puller
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Jd43, my response was not directed in a negative way towards you. I was responding to J Warners post. I wish Ohio would adopt a class similar to what you were talking about. There are classes all around ohio like or similar to that but none in Ohio. A good 466 class would definitely be doable for alot of people who would like to pull but cannot afford it. Not saying that you can't drop some coin on a 466, but you can at least get an old 466 out of an old combine or tractor and go play. Just saying. Why did you loose 2 classes? Was it because of no pullers, or a promoters choice? |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Response to Buckeye: There was a private pull 40 miles from here that had a good range of classes. I've been told they just couldn't handle the cost of putting the pull on anymore. Smoke and speed came in and put a good pulls on in 2020 but went there way in 2021. They were there because there weren't many pulls in their normal areas of pulling do to covid.
It's real tough to put a private brush pull on in our area unless it's attached to a fair. It's been tried several times but dosn't last more than a few years. I'd like to thank F.I. for taking the risk of putting on his pulls for several years and hope you might be able to find an avenue to do it again. We had a great time. Thanks again |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Jd 43 you can run with Snyder county in the hot stock class or don’t put the inter cooler on and you can run enhanced farm at 3000 rpms we would be glad to have you. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Buckeye puller
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Whats the rules Mr. Hauck. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Hot stock is a pump cooler 619 cube 3 inch turbo |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 161 |
Does that class draw a lot of tractors? Seems like it would be pretty popular. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Yes anywhere from 10-15 we had as many as 21 it’s the club’s most popular class we run points series for it we have 15 -20 hooks |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 161 |
I am just being curious but what's run in that class? Is it only bbjd or is there a wide variety of tractors in it? |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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A lot of 540 tractors red green and cases there are only 2 619 tractors they’ve been with the class since the beginning but east coast 466 hot farms run with us sometimes and are right there in the mix a great group of guys that are also friends that pull to have fun we paid out around 4000 dollars in points fund to top 8 or 10 tractors 540 tractors took 4 of the top 5 in points |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
We ran with your club a few times pre 2021. It's a great class with a lot of Pro-Farms and 2 big blocks and it's anyone's guess who will be the top 3 tractors. I'd rather run in a 466 class for comparisons on how we are running. The altered farm class keeps us out with the rules your club has but we know and respect that very much. That is a super good class with some really good running tractors and some young blood drivers which will grow your club even more. Snyder County Pullers truly has their act together. We may run to one of your pulls but not for points if that's ok. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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We been down this road before an a pump can and will run with the p pump guys might cost more and not last as long but can and will run with them. I run light hot farm with New York hot farm won alot of pulls and points champion last year and guess what I run an a pump everyone else in class runs a p pump. Unhook cooler make a pipe so you can run with or without and go pulling. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Yes we ran a different cross over pipe when our cooler went bad . We put a bigger water tip on but it ran a bit hotter according to the data logger. We would have to get more fuel to run that way but looks like it may be the way to go at some point.
The true reason for my post was to get the feeling if starting a class of 466 Hot Farms in Northern Pa./Southern NY would be worth all drama. I would want to run both A and P pumps to get the numbers we would need. I guess I got the message. Thanks to all who replied. Have a great pulling season ! |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 12/10/2021 Posts: 5 |
If you're in northeastern PA, have you checked out CS Pulling Promotions 2022 schedule or the Full Pull Productions 2022 USA East Schedule? Both have added a 466, 20.8 class for 2022 and there are quite a few hooks around eastern PA this summer. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Thanks, I will check it out. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Registered: 10/27/2020 Posts: 4 |
CS Pulling Promotions will be offering a $1,500 purse for the 466 Hot Farm Tractor division at the Summer Series Spring Showdown Pull in Knox, PA. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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Yes cs productions and full pull have both added the 466 class this year. Between the two of them there is 10 hooks. Also there are 3 additional hooks by local promotors that picked up the class this year in western pa at big pulls. 480 cubes, p pump, 20.8 cuts, no innercooler, water inj. Which is the same as ny hot farm rules. Cs productions drew first blood on the class and is actually doing a points race and fund at the end of the year alomg with a good purse at each hook. Full pull is no points and i mediaoker payout. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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W PA Puller
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Full Actually picked up the class last year at a few events. We loved pulling with them last year and look forward to this year again. They treated us very well last year for the few pulls they had and are actively working on more pulls for us. Pay was good for our class. Not sure what to make of CS.... seems to talk a big game but is only a high school kid. |
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GOOFY RULES
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Puller 7
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What I didn't like about CS rules is that if a person is 100% in compliance with the rules, "the officials have the right to Handicap any vehicle that is dominating in a particular class" thats from their website rule 6.g Why would anyone want to pick on a particular puller or vehicle if they are 100% in compliance with the rules just because they have their rig figured out and nobody else does? I tell you why, because this mentality runs rampant across our country. That everyone's a winner, that we have to make everyone feel good. Sounds like a liberal minded organization that wants "Their own little sandbox". I will stick with the groups that as long as you are in compliance, then you are welcome to participate to the best of your ability. Examples, NTPA, PPL, OUTLAWS, and many other local and state organizations. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Puller7, there is a similar "rule" like that in the NTPA rule book also. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Puller 7
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What page and paragraph? |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Paull
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Many organizations and clubs have bylaws and rules that protect the integrity of the members,and contain language similar to those words,in the interest of fair competition. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Puller 7
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Fair competition and integrity is exactly what I am talking about. That is following the rules set forth to make the game fair and those who follow those rules are full of integrity. This has absolutely nothing to do with someone who has done their homework and has a vehicle and program that could dominate their class! Just because others choose to get better or not is not justification to limit a certain Individual who is following the rules to be a fair competitor in their class. But some organizations choose to listen to the cry babies and blackball or put additional sanctions or rules on a certain Individual just because the others choose to not use the good competition as reason to get better at what they are doing, but to ban or make rule changes to eliminate the guy who is playing within all the rules set forth. I've seen dominant pullers have this very thing done to them throughout my history of pulling, which is several decades, and this mentality is not a good way to promote our sport. Why would any competitor ever want to invest into whatever they are competing in want to strive to be the best knowing that if they happen to become a dominant force, that they could be banned from competition or that the rules might change for them and only them, just to allow others who choose not to invest to become competitive a chance to win. Again, this is that feel good mentality that "Everyone is a winner" how dare you play by the rules and still be dominant in your game. I know guys that know before they ever drop the hook for the first time that they will be blackballed, as soon as the competition starts to cry foul!! Its a sad state of affairs that a man knows whats coming before he ever pulls. Why should he ever build? I've heard great competitors make this same statement many times in my life. I totally understand what they are saying. Its this woke, entitlement minded society that we live in today. The good old days are over for good my friends, sad sad times we live in. Thats all I'm gonna say on the matter. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered.
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HP
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NTPA 2022 rule book.
Page 91 Rule #8 Any pulling vehicle displaying a defined dominant edge in competition will be factored by the NTPA Executive Board. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered.
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?
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And thats one of the many reasons NTPA has lost alot of pullers, ive pulled since the early 80s and seen many many changes, some good some not so good, i understand guys working at their programs and improving on them within the rules, thats great but dont penalize them for working and accomplishing performance increases.Ive ran upfront some of the time and sometimes not, but i have never protested or complained about someone finding some lil something that helps them progress, just made me hunt a lil more somewhere myself !!!! Don't hold back someone thats willing to put in the work within the rules !!!!! |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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HP
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Kind of an ignorant remark there ?.
The rule has been in the NTPA rule book for over 20 years that I am aware of. Do you know how many times in that 20+ years the NTPA executive board have factored a pulling vehicle? 0 None. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Thanks HP. I was going to ask that question as I didn't think it ever had been. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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?
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HP, i really wasn't talking about NTPA factoring anyone in particular, i was more refering to about pullers complaining about another puller working an finding horsepower an then gripping to NTPA an when NTPA didn't do anything, they ( NTPA) lost some pullers. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
No offense ?, but what was NTPA supposed to do? A domination rule is hard to enforce when a competitor builds a vehicle to the rules and abides by the rules of a class. In my opinion the real reason NTPA lost members is because they lost state organizations because they didn't want to listen to what the competitors of the state organizations that were members of NTPA at that time had to say about certain issues. Again, just my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with it. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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?
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Clark i agree with what you said and 99% of your post on other issues, I AM BY KNOW MEANS UPHOLDING NTPA, im not a big NTPA fan at all, i apparently sounded like i was upholding NTPA and im not-- im all for the guy spending the time an work to find a lil here and a lil there ( within the rules )!!!! Like i said earlier, it just makes me to go a diggn for a lil more myself !!! |
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Re: GOOFY RULES, To; Puller 7, rule question answered., to ?
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
HUH? naww don't worry about it. I am probably upholding NTPA more than you are and I am not a member now because our state is no longer a member state. I do miss the days of co-sanctioning with HSTPA, TPM and ITPA(Iowa Tractor pullers). |
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That one time NTPA "unofficially" factored in a pulling vehicle with a rule change
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
(cough cough Boyds after 1 pass @ 2019 Bowling Green.) Yes, I read Sno' Farmer's rationale for proposing the limit on screw blowers and understand, but I have to wonder if that rule would have even been proposed if he had won by 5 feet (or didn't win) instead of 45 feet. For the record, Purser won the Saturday hook that year. 2 points- 1) You will note Richardson and Benedict already ran screw blowers all season before Boyd won at Bowling Green. Was anyone talking about screw blowers earlier in that season. 2) Boyds ran unlimited at Chapel Hill in the Friday session that year (Saturday was rained out). They finished 10th and 12th out of 12. Not sure if they ran screws at Chapel Hill, but did anyone complain after their performance at that pull? Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2022 02:34PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: That one time NTPA "unofficially" factored in a pulling vehicle with a rule change
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HP
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Not handicapped.
They were found to be over the allowed overdrive screw blowers are limited to, as stated in the rule book. Nice try. The new Richola cough drops are pretty effective. |
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Re: ? for HP
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
What was the screw blower overdrive limit for 2019 in the unlimited mod class? What did the rulebook for that year say? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2022 06:21PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: ? for HP
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HP
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2019 rule book had no overdrive limit.
Boyd's weren't forced to run anything different the rest of 2019. Overdrive rule for screw blowers was implemented in 2020 for everyone using a screw blower. I do remember we made screw blowers be "bagged" right away, like NHRA. I thought "we" did the overdrive at the same time. So, no overdrive in 2019, but no ONE was handicapped either. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 161 |
This is the most accurate thing I have seen on this forum in quite sometime. Well stated and said. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Tech
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With the amount of tech any where in the pulling world, I would not believe that the rules are always followed, this is people we are dealing with, not cold hard metal. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
The original intent of this post was to get a feeling of running a combined class not to have a total rule discussion about the NTPA or any other club. I was talking about 466 Hot Farm brush pulls.
However, since the rules have been discussed about CS and a dominate tractor being an issue. I know the reasons for a dominate tractor as well as most of you. Rules have been tried in Hot Farm classes to run a box turbo but there is no way to keep a $8,000 pump from competing with a $3000 one. There is no way to keep a $50,000 motor with all the bells and whistles including expensive dyno time with a tractor that has been "economically" built for what was supposed to be an economical starter class. There were in some club's tire rules that also "seemed to help" keep cost down but then those rules went like the box turbo rule. You can build a dominate tractor and be within the rules so I understand CS rule but it probably is fruitless. I was in a local organization that tried that same rule. The bottom line is it won't work. When I look at a tractor that is 20' in front of the class it's ether a very expensive build or well you know, it should be up a class or two. I like Hot Farm classes that give the ability for new commers and the average wage earner to get involved in the sport. There are plenty of other classes for the big spenders and those who like to run above the 466 rule. I actually like the days when a guy could do most all the innovating himself without relying on vendors and builders but I know those days are long gone. I hope everyone has a fun season pulling. |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
JD43, I Don't know where you are from, however we have some good brush pulls in central and southeast Ohio for hot farm tractors. We typically run 3000 rpms with 0 tolerance. So 3001 rpms, and your out. We have a mix of tractors from. Massey, JD, IH, FORD, anywhere from 466 to who knows? We do have a great group of guys who we pull with and welcome any and all to come pull with us. Make weight hitch, and rpms on 20.8s and pull. My son-in-law runs a 466 and he does good against the bigger motors. He doesn't win all the time but he gets his licks in and pulls off a win every now and then. Look up Glenford Lions Club pulls in se Ohio. Rules are posted on website, Here's the link [glenfordpull.com] or feel free to call me anytime 740-721-8093.
Best regards and wishing everyone a great year pulling. rw |
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Re: GOOFY RULES
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Thanks for the invite but we are in far Northeastern Pa. near Southern NY. border. We try to stay in a 100 mile radius. My grandson runs the tractor most of time. I fill in when he can't run it. Thanks again. |
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Re: 466 Hot Farm Class
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I believe he is a young kid but we attended his past events and he ran very professional pulls and always treated us well. I saw hes paying $1,500 for the hot farm tractors. |
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