Pro Stock Controversy January 21, 2023 01:00PM
Saw on Facebook that Shramek sent a letter to WPI regarding some new block rule? From the best I can tell Chaos is offering something but not really sure. Anybody know what’s up?
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 21, 2023 01:17PM
Chaos had altered the head bolt pattern on the IH blocks and heads.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 21, 2023 03:41PM
Making it even more difficult to compete with any brand other than Red or Green. Pulling fans want variety, it’s a show and for entertainment, if fans want all red and green than it’s a good rule. Other brands do not have the resources red and green do. A simple minded person would say, “ just do the same thing they’re doing.” Here’s where the problem lies, if you own an off brand, convincing an engine builder to design & build a block or a head or a driveline or any one off piece, it could cost double or triple what it does a red or green puller. Sheer time & dollars cannot be spread out on selling the item to several pullers, you’re selling to just one. Therefor the guys with off brands get left in the dust because their voice is too small. I give Shramek’s a ton of credit for speaking their concerns bc they are a minority in this class. It so difficult trying to make something “different” be competitive, especially when the rules are getting changed to give a major brand another leg up. Next will come changing bore spacing and cam location. Basically every single person who does not have this block is now at a disadvantage. Rules may need tweaked for safety or longevity at times but not for performance.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 12:09AM
Shramek is already running an IH block… Rob Russell’s old motor. Get the concern me of the head bolt pattern, but the argument of “red and green class” has been a reality for a long time already.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 09:57AM
I believe head bolt placement, movement, and adding them is all about keeping the head on and keeping the block from cracking due to the increases in HP, I’ve seen one in person that it is an issue
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Stay in the box January 22, 2023 05:10AM
Head bolts have been added & relocated for quite sometime now. Is the argument that the block should have all of the OEM holes? Does the head actually have to utilize these holes? They put IH heads in JD’s 40 years ago & there had to be head bolt mods done there. I’ve never seen a rule in the ntpa or ppl rule book that directly address head bolt location, only cam location. It seems that everything is kosher just as long as everyone stays in the same box.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2023 05:11AM by Cody.
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Re: Stay in the box January 22, 2023 09:21AM
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Cody
Head bolts have been added & relocated for quite sometime now. Is the argument that the block should have all of the OEM holes? Does the head actually have to utilize these holes? They put IH heads in JD’s 40 years ago & there had to be head bolt mods done there. I’ve never seen a rule in the ntpa or ppl rule book that directly address head bolt location, only cam location. It seems that everything is kosher just as long as everyone stays in the same box.

Man thats interesting I believe no recast block that has been approved by any sanctioning body has ever "moved" head bolt location. Which ones have you seen doing this?

edit: By the statement above about moving an oem bolt location is not the same as adding bolt locations in a deck plate to accommodate extra studs for the cylinder head.
extra head bolts do not make 1 additional HP.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 02:54PM
I’m sure if they are going to allow relocating the head bolts, the guys with recast and billet blocks red or green would like to have known that years ago so they could run a big bore like the BB Deer’s! NTPA screwed the pooch on this 1.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 03:13PM
Why is this even an issue if NTPA and PPL both have said it’s legal?
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History and how WPI works! January 23, 2023 01:50AM
First moving head bolts is not a big deal. John Deere guys when they ran the hypermax head years ago were changing head bolt locations. People modify blocks all the time for pulling applications.
Second, go back an re-read the letter. The Shramek complaint is due process and democracy failed. This is a complete misunderstanding of how the organization is ran or lack of understanding. The NTPA board, respective divisional committees and the WPI board do their best to work together. At the end of the day it’s a formality that keeps the peace. With that being said though the WPI board can make decisions as they see fit without the input of anybody. They don’t need NTPA permission to make changes. That change occurred when the letter of perpetuity was signed giving WPI complete control. That being said you don’t have to like or agree with the methodology but that is the way it is.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 26, 2023 01:37PM
Relocating the head bolts does not alter the bore centers.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 03:01AM
It’s been a red-green show for 20 years, if don’t have a red or green hood on it, it’s most likely got IH or JD motor in it.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 03:56AM
Since the v8 Cummins is legal and was only offered in an articulated tractor I have often wondered why the 731 cu/in ac engine wasn’t developed for tractor pulling. The bore spacing is the advantage of the big block Deere and the v8 Cummins. The 731 ac is a 5-1/4” bore from the factory. I know the engine is heavy but a solid big block Deere block is certainly not light. Someone may have already tried to use this engine but I am not aware of.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 08:12AM
I around for a long time, and if I personally were able I would have a pulling vehicle. But can’t afford it, or would rather not throw it away.
I have helped a 2WD/Modified team, and enjoyed it, but with 40-50 hour job, my time got thin, so I stepped away, went to tech school for the 2022 season, but unforeseen circumstances kept me at home all year, and would always offer a hand to any team that may need it.
Now, this year I had planned to go all in as a tech person, then schedule comes out and not sure if I can make any of them, except maybe the Bowling Green one.
And now there have been 1 or 2 controversial calls, tires being one and the other being this. After market billet blocks have been legal for a few years now, with the restriction of CRANK CENTERLINE, and the centerline measurement between Camshaft and Crankshaft, and bore spacing in some or all classes.

So with all this, look at it this way, if a certain head will bolt up, but due to some port work you have to leave out a row of head bolts, granted the holes are in the block, would it not be safer to have that extra material to put a new set of head bolts in. Just some common sense I think. But does anyone have any anymore.


Eric Prewitt
The Prewitt Pulling Team
Public Relations for
The Pulling Radio Network
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 08:51AM
I am curious as to what is being gained by changing bolt position or pattern, is the idea to move ports, reconfigure valve train parts, change cubic inch or change head styles all together and if so to use what head ?
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 22, 2023 02:15PM
I think the issue some are having is the addition of bolt holes. Go to Chaos website and look at their block and you can see the build out for more head bolts or studs. Although they do not show a top view you can see the build out, but as Kevin stated they did receive the blessing of the 2 top organizations.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 23, 2023 01:13AM
I think there were several points made by the Shrameks that are the perfect summary to this problem.

1. This new rule will open up the possibility of running non OEM blocks. In a sport that already struggles to explain how these pulling tractors are tractors at all, that's a bad idea.

2. This rule change would be made due to changes made to an IH block in order to compete with the BBJD. However, if this rule change goes through the BBJD guys will take advantage of it as well and remain just as far ahead of IH blocks as they were before this rule.

3. The Shrameks did not accuse anyone of running this "cheater block" illegally last season but people in their comments seem to make it clear that El Nino (I think thats who they are referencing) ran the cheater block all of last season.

I give Brian and Braden a ton of credit for putting their opinion out publicly like they did. Very well written and they did it all without attacking anyone.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 23, 2023 03:30AM
Where the letter posted publicly ??
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 23, 2023 08:40AM
YougBlood Pulling Team Facebook page.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 23, 2023 11:52PM
The V8's are coming!
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 26, 2023 12:27PM
So based on the new WPI rule clarification, what all Pro and DSS are illegal?
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 26, 2023 02:09PM
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LSS Fan
So based on the new WPI rule clarification, what all Pro and DSS are illegal?
About all of them
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 26, 2023 04:38PM
Shouldn’t #3 read camshaft?

3. Crankshaft location must be same as stock OEM block replicated.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 01:13AM
So according to the wpi letter that has been put out the tall Hypermax head is illegal, the Stabb head is illegal, I’m pretty sure the riverside head is taller than oem I don’t think there are any billet heads that would be legal. Who is going to pull , how long is this supposed to fly
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 01:57AM
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SL
So according to the wpi letter that has been put out the tall Hypermax head is illegal, the Stabb head is illegal, I’m pretty sure the riverside head is taller than oem I don’t think there are any billet heads that would be legal. Who is going to pull , how long is this supposed to fly
Pretty much all Dss and pros are illegal along with light and limited pros. Those geniuses better get their @#$%& straight or outlaw and ppl will have all the tractors!
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 03:11AM
PPL loses Lucas Oil and it looks like it could be NTPAs time to shine.

Nope they've found a way to give even more advantage to PPL in a class that PPL already had more tractors.

PPL stands for Pro Stock Pulling League right?! Has been for years anyway but this solidifies it.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 06:54AM
All the cylinder head talk is now gone from the ntpa tech page....guessing there was pushback LOL
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 07:18AM
[ntpapull.com]
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 07:44AM
Hey, "The all knowing.", what is the " is block"? And which 1 of the 5 WPI board members "own a pair of them" now controversial engines?
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 12:11PM
Ask VP…
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 07:31AM
Maybe we should all ask how this all came about. From what I understand, is block was voted down until after 2023 season for vote. Then WPI overruled and decided to let it in. This was to help and advance the class. Right? It has nothing to do with a board member owning a pair of them would it? I mean surely the self interest of one wouldn’t be put in front of others right? Almost sounds just like the government the same people complain about. Kind of like Pelosi stock picks. Just another conspiracy theory I guess.
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 12:40PM
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The all knowing.
Maybe we should all ask how this all came about. From what I understand, is block was voted down until after 2023 season for vote. Then WPI overruled and decided to let it in. This was to help and advance the class. Right? It has nothing to do with a board member owning a pair of them would it? I mean surely the self interest of one wouldn’t be put in front of others right? Almost sounds just like the government the same people complain about. Kind of like Pelosi stock picks. Just another conspiracy theory I guess.
Who is this board member you speak of?
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Re: Pro Stock Controversy January 27, 2023 10:34AM
So what did this whole @#$%& show accomplish besides ruffle a bunch of feathers and probably make some competitors loose respect from others
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So……. January 28, 2023 04:57PM
So…… the whole head size thing is now gone along with the OEM injector angle rule? Doesn’t it make you a tad bit concerned at how easily they can just make rules up & take rules away without much or any blessing from the congregation? If you have ever thought that your opinion doesn’t really matter as a paid member of NTPA, that thought seems to have been solidified right here. Kinda reminds me of a moneynite church.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 03:46AM by Cody.
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