05:41:20am, Saturday, April 20, 2024
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Twd tires
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Three sets of Nichols tires at the show... and they go 1, 2, & 3 in the finals. Not too shabby! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Nichols 2wheeler tiresz
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Wow
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What a statement for Nichols two wheel drive tires taking the top 3 spots tonight in the finals! Congrats Bob and Russ! |
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Re: Nichols 2wheeler tiresz
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Ban of particular technologies, or updated products or alternatives is the right way to kill innovations. Since this comes up, the sport will die even faster. Look at NHRA and remind a quote of Garlits when he told that appr 20-25 years ago the rules have been gradually modified in the way that people who like to introduce innovations have to ensure that this will be available for everybody else etc. THIS instantly killed all motivation to think outside the box and any innovation at all. Basically the technology in TF drag racing stagnates for >20years. There are minor innovations with respect to safety an/or reliability, but nothing really remarkable smart ideas.
Talking about tires in this particular case. Wonder if the given until now available product is so damn behind the upcoming product. How much progress can be expected? If there is an improvement in efficiency of more than 20% present, then the before product was just really wrong. If the expected improvement is below 5-8% then it's just in the order of accumulated uncertainties of all imaginable involved variables, and therefore neglectable. |
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NICOLS burning the world down
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Wow
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Congrats to Russ and all the Nichols crews. New tires are going to change the TWD division. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Wrong
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Not change the class, just make everyone spend a bunch of money we didn't need to. Once we all have them they put more weight in the sled to go the same distance. This is bad for the sport plain and simple! We all screwed ourselves and didn't get the rule changed to copy the current tire. Each puller will have to narrow the rear to accept the wider tire and in the end this will cost the puller 6,000 bucks plus. The tire we had worked and was readily available. A select few will have early access to the tire while others will have to wait. The best thing the pullers can do is get together and stop this new tire before it takes off. Probably too late and the organizations don't give a @#$%&. Sad day for the two Wheel Drive class. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Registered: 05/03/2015 Posts: 17 |
So what you are saying is every time a new turbo or blower comes out we should outlaw it or we should not let anyone have them until they make a run of 50 so everybody can get one?? Please explain this analogy to us. Everyone is having a cow about a set of tires that cost less than half of a prostock turbo or supercharger. Nichols’s tires were on 3 really good trucks at the farm show so to say they already had a good shot at the finals would be true. Second thing is Mayhill tires are coming and nobody knows what they will bring so people are jumping to conclusions without all the facts. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Yeppers
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This isn't a turbo or supercharger. Not good for the class, not good for the sport plain and simple. Some may find out that these don't work but how did we get here? Because the rules allowed it. Never should have happened. That was the meaning of the post. Now if you think logically here and the tires do work, what happens when everyone goes farther? More weight in the wagon! Now what happens with the minis, this tire legal for them as well? When does it stop? This new tire will be bad for a sport that is already losing numbers the way it is. Time will tell. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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So using your logic, Cepeks shouldn’t have been allowed decades ago. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Why
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Why isn’t having an alternative tire good for the class. You say more money being spent, but a set of these tires are minuscule in comparison to having the latest supercharger. So by your logic it should even be more cookie cutter, only one tire…. Guess we should all run everything identical so we don’t try to find a competitive advantage. Isn’t the point of pulling to trying to put your best combination together and out perform the competition? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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why?
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In your opinion why do NASCAR and NHRA mandate tires? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Why??
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So 30.5 or 24.5 should not have an option either? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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why?
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You have no idea why NASCAR and NHRA mandate a tire? 
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Why??
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Yea I understand why. Thank you for repeating the question. But the follow up I would say is, these tires can give an alternative option. Mikey white beat Renee so to say there is a competitive advantage with the Nichols is debatable. Will the Nichols work on every track? I do not think so. But tractor pulling and drag racing/nascar are a little different. For 1, those sports do not have tire manufacturers competing against competitors. 2 are you saying that every tire should have the exact same cut with no alterations? 3 why is having a competitive tire manufacturer so bad for the pulling competitors? We do live in USA, where free markets should be utilized. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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why?
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I only repeated the question because you failed to answer it. Which you still haven't. 
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Well
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Well I said yes I do and if you read my comment. I noted the competitive advantage, which some teams noted. Tire failures, mandating titanium safety shielding. Also NHRA Dictates a tire pressure mandate. Is that something else we should add? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Well
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Yea I did not note the tire failure point. Before you pick that apart. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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why?
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I haven't picked anything you have said apart ,...because you really haven't said anything.....I simply asked you,... why tires were mandated in 2 other motorsports and you never said why in your opinion that they are. Do you write FJB's speeches?? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 241 |
Might it be that the tire manufacturer is a major sponsor for NHRA and Nascar? |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
To your point, in the 1990s Hoosier was allowed in Nascar for a brief period. It didn't end well and they were out of the sport quickly. Hoosier is the primary supplier for the most big dirt late model series. The problems the racers have with cost and supply is much worse than what pulling is dealing with. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a single spec tire. I'm not sure a single tire is any cheaper than a free for all in the long run. The spec tire will get more costly with no competition, and multiple tires will get more expensive when someone builds a better mousetrap. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2023 07:35AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Good business.
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They would have major sponsorship monies irrelevant to any one manufacturer being the mandated tire. Thats chicken or egg logic. They mandate a tire for several reasons but the ones relevant to our small motorsport of pulling is safety and fair competition. Safety is pretty much not a complicated issue,...but the fair competition part is where it gets sticky. The large NASCAR/NHRA teams would develop their own tires and drive the smaller teams out of competition. Tires are the most important advantage or disadvantage in almost every motorsport.. Pulling fails everytime to address issues that are some of the biggest factors to fair competition..............Example making the Mitas in the 10pro class .5 inch narower than it's closest competitor...those are the kinda things that the top NASCAR/NHRA teams would implement if not mandated to one manufacturer...Bottomline pulling will never get it's fecal matter together regarding to rules that legislate some common sense and economy because they are not hurting for vehicles. The DSS class and now the Mod class are and have been teetering on just that case,... but the head buried in the sand response seems to be the company line foe those two prestigious classes .,..............
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Interesting
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I am curious if you think safety is a concern with the Nichols in pulling. I feel you’re reaching a little with the safety comparison in NHRA/Nascar. A lot more risk in NHRA/Nascar in my opinion. But that aside, if we go by your statements, first we mandate a tire supplied by Mayhill, cut by Mayhill, mandate air pressures in each class. That would be the only way to mandate a tire with no alterations. Because say we mandate a tire like NHRA/Nascar; I get a tire from CM that is mandated, I am now spend hours cutting; changing lug height, bar angle, overall tire diameter, etc. Now the only thing about that tire that is the same as anyone else’s is the name on the sidewall. Following, what then stops rule organizations from mandating one chassis. Because of competitive advantages or safety. The two TWD trucks that folded frames up at BG a few years back could be the argument for safety. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Haha
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If you think I haven’t said much. I guess you should re-read my comments. But I see you would rather try to throw an insult. So, instead I hope you have a wonderful day. I do hope we see a pulling track together and continue to grow the sport of pulling! |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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LOL
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Tell Brandon hi... 
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Smiles
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Enjoying your lack of creativity to try and belittle someone. Would love to have this conversation in person. You’re just so witty and intelligent.
Edited for clarity -JM Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2023 11:55PM by John Murray. |
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Re: NICOLS burning the world down
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Ban of particular technologies, or updated products or alternatives is the right way to kill innovations. Since this comes up, the sport will die even faster. Look at NHRA and remind a quote of Garlits when he told that appr 20-25 years ago the rules have been gradually modified in the way that people who like to introduce innovations have to ensure that this will be available for everybody else etc. THIS instantly killed all motivation to think outside the box and any innovation at all. Basically the technology in TF drag racing stagnates for >20years. There are minor innovations with respect to safety an/or reliability, but nothing really remarkable smart ideas.
Talking about tires in this particular case. Wonder if the given until now available product is so damn behind the upcoming product. How much progress can be expected? If there is an improvement in efficiency of more than 20% present, then the before product was just really wrong. If the expected improvement is below 5-8% then it's just in the order of accumulated uncertainties of all imaginable involved variables, and therefore neglectable. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Posts: 249 |
Yes that was awesome. Gordon Cox For The Love Of Pulling [www.facebook.com] [fortheloveofpulling.godaddysites.com] |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 03/28/2021 Posts: 61 |
great for the person selling tires and cutting tires.
Bad for the competitors now needing to invest in new tires. Bad for the sport in whole driving up costs. Russ is just doing what he needs to do nothing wrong with that it's just a bad deal same as the pro pullers and mitas situation and turbocharger wars, just making the sport more unaffordable |
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Re: Twd tires
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Typical
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Take the tires they have now and rewrite the rule to spec that size. |
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Re: Twd tires
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what you dont know
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Here is a couple things to think on.
Nichols tires changed the sport of garden tractor pulling when they were introduced. You hardly ever go to a national garden tractor pull and see tires that say anything but Nichols on the side. Occasionally you'll see different manufacturers tires. from the garden tractor standpoint looking at the two-wheel drive tires and knowing what I know about the 4x4 truck tires here's my questions: -will the tires hold up over a period of time? Nichols tires are notorious for chunking the lugs out on less than favorable tracks. - the lugs are so hard on the Nichols tires they are brittle, almost delicate to the point they don't hold a good sharp edge for a period of time before they get dull. has anything changed? - who will distribute the tires? with the Garden tractor tires there are almost (2) exclusive vendors to get the tires from. will you have to go through an exclusive vendor to even get a set of these tires? To me, in above posts, it seems as if there is a lot of hate for Russ himself and what he has done here. Russ loves truck and tractor pulling more than anyone I know. Russ is no different than any-other innovator in the sport. Just be glad he brought a couple extra sets for fellow competitors to try and not just keep one set for himself and that's it and worry about it after the farm show. There really hasn't been a huge breakthrough accomplishment or advancement in the two-wheel drive class for a long time, be glad someone is stepping up and trying to advance the sport. |
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Re: Twd tires
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BREAKINGNEWS
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you have to go to a Gm or Chevy dealer to but those products, and to Ford to buy Ford, - why a big question about the tires, DUH, go to a place they sell them. |
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Re: Twd tires
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roadkill
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The pullers are their own worst enemies. People (including them) want to advance the sport so they work on something new (turbo, block, head, tires, etc.) and then everyone wants one. The tires are no different than a new turbo or, well, lets say screw blower as we all know how that changed things.Only thing with tires is you can't make your own out of billet aluminum and try them.. Hats off to the Nichols Brothers to make this happen....
Firestone came out with a new tire awhile ago and it transformed the sport. Parkes tried and then yielded to ProPuller who has new product. Luckily FS only had one or 2 choices so things were almost civil but with 6+ varieties of a ProPuller, if you want to be competitive, you have to try them.. Can't dyno them to figure them out.. Now Mitas comes in and (has the potential to) make the ProPullers obsolete. (dont give a dissertation on how the Mitas tires are too wide, etc.. as that rule was made to include a tire that was mis-designed but someone already bought a mold that was too wide so now a 24.5 tire is 25 wide...) I recall an Unlimited Puller that wanted to make a certain tire the only tire to run in that class. Went up for a vote and got denied. So if all are in favor of advancing the sport, as long as there is a good rule in place, if one can build within the rules, let it run!! |
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Re: Twd tires
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Here's the deal
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No matter what you do you are still only going to go 350 feet. more horsepower= more sled weight to go 350.00 ". New tires better traction wider footprint guest what they will still stop you at 300-350. you spend all this money to go the same distance. I'm NOT wrong!!!! |
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Re: Twd tires
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catch up
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Sure that will happen eventually, but for now, they dominate. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I guess I would remind people that the trucks we are looking at here are absolute top notch trucks. Russ came very close a couple of years ago to winning the points in both organizations before he had his own tires. Brent and Kristi have been at the top of the truck classes the last few years not to mention having just won the NTPA GN points title. Renee has been a constant top 5 NTPA GN truck for many years. It not like some also ran type truck was suddenly a winner.
We personally have been dealing with the same issues with our mods and I've resisted going the Mitas route partly because I'm hard headed but mostly because it is a huge cost for two tractors. I've been thinking that it's a must have item to be competitive but so far (at least at the RN level) we're still competitive. We are finding that on certain tracks the Mitas tires dominate but on most track we can hang with them. My point in saying that is with some time on many different kinds of dirt they might not be as dominate as they looked at the farm show, time will tell. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Twd tires
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EFV
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" You spend all this money to go the same distance" No, they spend all this money to go FURTHER than anyone else.
It's called a competition. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Here's the deal
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I guess I should have made it more clear. the sled operator will stop you at 350.00. I get you want to go further than the other guys DAHHHHHH. but no matter what you do the sled operators are going to put the hammer on you at 350. its not like they get newer tires blowers move weights n the sled operator will let them go 700 feet... relax pal!!!!!! |
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Re: Twd tires
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
The sled can keep regressing everyone to the 300, 330, 350 standard and they will. Where pulls are won is in the ability to find a thing that gets you 345s for 6 hooks before others can. This concept is as old as the sport. Yes. Even in the 300 and a pulloff days this process played out.
CP |
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Re: Twd tires
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Newsflash
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Yes, the sled can stop everyone with the new Nichols Tire at 350' but then everyone else will be at 300"!!!
People who act like it's the worst thing in the pulling world are just clueless...... Innovators and competitors want to win, not just get participation trophies. |
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Re: Twd tires
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The problem
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The biggest issue I see is availability. The tires will be run by a select few before they will be readily available to everyone. You can't buy the tires uncut. You will get what they want you to get. I don't see that they should be allowed to run until they can be readily available. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Isaiditfirst
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Several posts repeating what was posted already,others will catch up.If I port my head in my own shop and IT WORKS, no one else will know my secret for yrs. DUH ! So why should tires be available to all others, - then make the rich's monies available to all others, -My God How some minds Do Not Work. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Well
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You can port your heads or buy a better blower. They still won’t make as much of a difference as someone running a tire that people can’t buy.
TNT has already banned the tires until they become available for everyone. I was told another organization has done this also. Maybe some more organizations will follow. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 03/28/2017 Posts: 9 |
You can make a mold and lay your own rubber and have the only set also. Is there a rule against that? As long as they meet the rules. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Well
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I could build my own tire. Although I would make them legal from the beginning and not stretch the rule to help benefit myself.
Maybe people should try to make what they have work better. This is clearly something that will benefit a few. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
This issue has happened 100's of times over the years with other parts on a pulling vehicle.once again pulling is reactive instead of proactive.robert and russ have been making pulling specific tires for +/- 15 years,I have owned every variation of thier tires,all but 1 work extremely well.i highly doubt any of thier products are made not to the rules.russ,kelly,and robert have a passion for the sport to be the best,I wish them well.. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 05/03/2015 Posts: 17 |
So I’m 19th on the list at SSI for a new supercharger. With everyone complaining about availability then no one should get a new supercharger until mine is available to me as well!!! This is the same logic you are using. Now organizations are banning them until they are readily available, so what’s the number to be considered readily available??? Everyone has to have them or just the guys in your organization (tnt and sounds like some more may be coming). that has to have them. |
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Re: Twd tires
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How long
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Since you have the tires everyone wants, how long til this tire is readily available? What is the availability? Does SSI give you a timeline for your new charger? The issue is availability plain and simple. These tires create a two headed monster in the class. Not only do you have to buy the tire that you can't get for who knows how long, you need rims that you can't get for who knows how long. Then most guys need to change their rear to accept the wide rim, move calipers, probably change the gear to keep the tires spinning. Will it take more front end weight? Probably. Now the guys with bodies will complain they are too heavy and need more weight. Hell spend some more money lightening the truck. All this work to find out maybe the tire won't work. Mayhill is or probably will be building a similar tire. These are the questions an organization will have to deal with. This isn't a turbo or supercharger. It is a competitive advantage that pullers will gladly pay for and do the work to make them fit. Right now there are three pullers against many others on deciding if this tire should be allowed until "readily available". That's all I got, can't wait for summer! |
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Re: Twd tires
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Well
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The blower you are waiting on will not make a big difference like the tires you ran at Louisville. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 05/03/2015 Posts: 17 |
So “Well” because you don’t have them then nobody should??? Sounds like you need a participation trophy. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Haha
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Have you ever done anything on your own? This guy sold me this, this guy sold me that. Must have a lot of people to thank when you do well |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Haha,
So Haha this conversation started over TWD tires...do you build your own? Your own blowers,turbos, blocks,heads ,rims? Not trying to belittle you in any way, just pointing out that most pullers buy most of their parts. Some fabricate more than others, some put more of their stuff together than others but we ALL rely on others to get on the track. Some of the very best on the track do a lot of their own work but on the other hand some that buy everything are just as good. Why belittle someone because they don't have your skill sets but love pulling as much as you? I'm one of those pullers that is somewhere in the middle, I buy most all of my parts, me my wife and my crew chief but them all together, maintain them, haul them and pull them. That defines my skill set, I'm a very good parts replacer, my crew chief is good at building engines and we're pretty good on the track...not the best but pretty good. I'm OK with this, in fact I'm quite proud of our team and our accomplishments. I'm sure you are proud of your accomplishments as you should be, of course I could know that better if you didn't hide behind "HaHa"! S'no Farmer |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,521 |
Isn't every peice of a vehicle a "new part","new design",and only available to a select few at first ?..what if the tires were offered to others,but noone else was willing to take the chance on a unproven product at such a huge event ?..if they didn't qualify you all would be laughing at nichols for that..lol |
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Re: Twd tires
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Well
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I don’t need a participation trophy. You evidently do though. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Twd puller
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Here is the biggest problem. Nichols tire are not available but to the one he chooses them to be available to for the next couple of years. Which mean no matter what you try you will never get around them. Because the last few pulls they were out at last year no one could catch them. On a 300 plus foot track they were putting 30 feet easily on the rest of the class.
The problem is that you can't get them. This isn't like many other parts that come along. Most of the time they don't have this big of a advantage and are available within a couple months. Not years down the road. So basically this puts most of the class without a chance to run with the leaders. The class has been pretty good close competition up until now. This will end up keeping alot of good pullers away from the class and hurt it for a long time. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
Your statement actually makes no financial sense. If the purpose was for Nichols to give himself an advantage on the pulling track, why would he sell the tires at all? There is far more financial gain (or at least return on investment) in selling the tires, than there is in winning pulls, or even championships. Putting out a small number of tires for on track beta testing at the end of the last season makes sense as well. Better to produce a handful of tires and test them, find flaws, or needs for improvements, and address those prior to producing a full production run. I'm sure that tires will be produced, and made available to anyone who wants them as quickly as possible, especially now that they have shown to work well. That is the fastest way for Nichols to recoup the funds he has invested in design and development. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Newsflash
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BS on all the above here. No one is going to go through all of that trouble and not capitalize on it financially - there's just no way, that's absurd. My guess is "Twd puller", you haven't been able to "get around them" and now you're really ticked off because you pretty much know you can't.. Not everyone wants to sit in the comfy chair all the time and just expect things to stay the same. Some people ACTUALLY want to innovate, upgrade, and - I don't know, try and make a couple of bucks to help fund their pulling operation? What a crazy idea?!?! You must think people like Tim Engler, Ken Veney, the Banter's, and the rest are greedy too.... |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 05/03/2015 Posts: 17 |
I guess with everyone’s logic on new tires that you can’t have a competitive edge so we just need to get a “iroc” pulling like nascar had back in the day. Everyone gets the same truck setup the same way!!! What a boring time that will be. Hell let’s take it back to Chevy and Littlefield days |
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Re: Twd tires
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!
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This whole thing about tires amazes me --- when has it ever said in the rules that a certain brand of tire can't be ran -- I always thought the only thing that was policed in any class was tire size, next it will be the tire police will not let you cut your tire but one certain way, then it'll be tire pressure after that--- it's ridiculous ----- best thing in my opinion only is for the competition to change the edge/angle,depth of tread or whatever, just because someone else has figured something out and it's worked don't bann them- but that's the way it's always been if you can't beat him outlaw him --- I'm pretty sure I've never read a post on here about the team in question complaining about what everyone else was running before they won at the farmshow with their tires -- it gives pulling a blackeye all this whining and bad sportsmanship. |
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Re: Twd tires
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A competitor should be given one complete season to test there new products out .and as far as i know that tire only came out in August and it didnt win ever event its been in .we r not NASCAR or NHRA where we can test like they can we can only test at a real event. And all tracks are different .
And the 3 trucks that ran the same brand of tire at the farm show could have won without them they are proven trucks .now if a truck that didnt have a chance of winning would of won thats a red flag.you have to give it time. |
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Re: Twd tires
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
What if he spent all that money and they didnt work how would this forum read SUCK IT UP get on a waiting list or invest in making your own this is inavation or go to an agg tire only class or dot hes done took over the garden tractor tires nobody cries they just buy them although they need an extra compuond in the ruber to hold up against chuking Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2023 12:37PM by Lewis Conner. |
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