Hot Farm is changing March 13, 2023 06:54PM
I know I’m not the only one noticing the change in hot farms or hot stock (depends on region) across the country. These new versions of hot farms (atleast in the northeast) are insane, guys spending 60k+ on engines and another 30k on chassis’s. Complete billet internals and a turbo and pump that cost as much as a new car. Now where I’m going with this is that I think that these types of builds need to branch off into a new classification. Now before the angry reply about how there is already way to many versions and alterations of pulling classes, hear me out. Hot Farm used to be and should be the introductory level to pulling. Yes I understand that some think that farm stock is the true introductory class but hot farm is where the real power can be made and the addiction starts. Now this is where I start to ask myself questions. How can you limit the amount someone spends on an engine, sure yes you limit cubic inch and turbo size and pump. But In this day and age you can buy an apex/harts hot farm 3x3 or smaller that makes 80lbs and a rotary making 650ccs. So you can’t really limit money spent without restricting rules right down to farm stock for the most part, unless you make a class that restricts rotating assembly’s, which will limit the amount of power you can make. It also invites creativity that has sense been lost. So I guess it wouldn’t be too out of the picture. Now a prime example is going to be this week at keystone. Some of the tractors pulling in the 11000 hot farm are going to be pushing over 1600hp, if you think I’m pulling your chain, just watch. Was wondering what everyone else’s view is.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 14, 2023 02:33AM
You've hit the nail squarely on the head. We pull in the northeast with what was once an original East Coast 466 Hot farm tractor when they had the 2.8 box turbo rule. When that class started it was a great class for those who wanted to step into points pulling in a known league with known rules. I even had the privilege to talk to the founder of the class and when pullers wanted to go wild with the class he got out. The box turbo which was $1500 +- was the first thing to go. Once that went the horse was off to the races. I bought the tractor when East Coast went from roll bar to a cage so we never were able to run with them and not sure we would have any way. We did run a few times with the New York class which is a P-pump class. This class has gained real power since we ran with them. They will be running separate from what I call the Snyder County 619 Hot farm class. Snyder County has an altered farm class that other than cubes and other minor rules are comparable to the Old Hot farm 466 class. They won't let you run water. CS pulling out of Western Pa. seems like a good but again powerful 466 class. I talked to them and they have invited us to pull with them. They still allow a roll bar but you need a 5 point harness. I saw a video Of a CS hot farm put a spanking on the NY ones. The tractor was a top dollar tractor.
I remember when the Interstate Pro-farm class started, and it was called a starter class at 540 cubes. I watched them at Keystone that first year and I think that Miller with a 4320 won the class. That class now runs like the Mod turbo class used to run. They are basically a Mod turbo with a small turbo.
Since then, I've said If you want to run in any class buy or build up to the next class like Mod Turbo and then back off to fit the Pro farm rules.
This will light a fire under some but truly how do we know what cubes are actually being run in any class? We don't. I've never had my cubes checked in 40 years of pulling. Maybe doing that would be a start. The box turbo rule seemed to be a good rule. Mph under 10 might work. Although look how well the Snyder County altered farms run. Running non-turbo might work if you can control cubes. When you have the addiction of pulling it's no different than any other addiction. You will always want a bigger high and that will cost you big bucks. I don't think you will ever have a low dollar class at any level. Even antique mph classes can get expensive but maybe more manageable. Sorry for the long reply but it's a nasty day outside.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 14, 2023 06:03AM
the problem with a box turbo rule is no two turbos are the same....this has been proven on the dyno time and time again so that's part of the reason east coast moved on and also part of the reason interstate pro farm is hurting right now....of course there are other factors that play into this
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Claim rule? March 14, 2023 06:17AM
What about having a claim rule for turbo, pump, or other parts at agreed on $ amounts as voted by the association or majority of pullers in the class?
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Re: Claim rule? March 14, 2023 07:44AM
I'm sure that no 2 box turbos will dyno the same. If they are from the same supplier and not tampered with I still think a $1500 turbo vs a $5000 one would give a more even playing field. It would also keep the cost down. I asked one group why they switched to pulling tires. The answer I got was they are cheaper to buy used. That just isn't true. I had 3 sets that came off our farm tractors. I gave one set to a local puller to help him get started. I've kept the rest. You can find any type and brand out there at a tire shop from take offs way less than 1/2 of a puller tire. If this club would've have stayed with 20.8-38 tires, a $1500 turbo that alone saves the puller at least $4000. Now I know the big spenders sneeze at $4000 and that's why we're were we're at. You have to ask yourself what $ amount can I "spare" without hurting your family or future to win a $20 trophy. Yea at my age I could buy or build a $250,000 Super Farm but that $250,000 leads to another $250,000 and on and on. Not for me.
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Re: Claim rule? March 14, 2023 11:59AM
I don't disagree I believe if we could turn back time 20.8s would the tire limit....there's alot of things that have gotten out of hand....
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 14, 2023 08:45AM
That’s a really terrible reason for going away from a box turbo. There is just as much variation in the ‘performance turbo’ market on the Dyno, so that argument holds no water. We currently have a box GT42 turbo rule, (western series pro farm rules) we have dynoed several different turbos from different suppliers and didn’t see any noteworthy difference.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 15, 2023 12:51PM
Dairy blend. I watched you guys pull at the Missouri state fair, you put on a good show! You have a 3500rpm rule to don’t you?
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 14, 2023 12:29PM
Two reasons for the rule change for East Coast 466. #1 The 2.8 rule as written in East Coast rule book was very hard to check and regulate. The rule spelled out a 2.8" compressor wheel, not the inlet. To check turbos you had to remove the cover and try to measure a wheel that did not have opposing fins with a caliper.
#2. The rule was changed to mirror the Pro Farm Interstate rule which spelled out the inlet measurement that could easily be checked with a plug. I was able to use my 2.8 box charger and modify it for the turbo rule change. Who did you speak to that was the founder of the class? The two that worked with East Coast to start the class are still pulling with us.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 14, 2023 01:41PM
Also to be fair to ITTPA, they have an 11000 lb Hot Farm class that fits the “entry level” type class and is a step up from farm stock. Relatively low cost, low maintenance but still 800ish hp. Jd43 this might be the type of class you are looking for. 480 cubes and 3x3 turbo. And for a bit of history, the Pro Farm class was originally called Hot Stock. It wasn’t until other classes started making significantly more power that the class was renamed and the rules were rethought to sort of fill the hp gap from the classes that ITTPA had to offer. It also allowed the 11000 lb Hot Farm class to gain some vehicles because now no two classes are alike. As for turbo variations in performance, I not only find that unlikely, but if you were Apex, Wimer, Harts etc, why would you sell a product that you aren’t convinced will perform consistently across a large batch of parts? That’s why they are good brands and are a household name among the pulling community. And a turbo is just one part, so matching fueling, cooling effect from intercooler, air mass flow across the head via cam profiles, and timing to name a few becomes more important for tractors using box turbos. Bottom line is at the end of the day, spend what is within your means and don’t let people who spend a lot of money/ pay engine builders blah blah blah take away from the the fun.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 15, 2023 12:59AM
I am aware of the Interstate 11000 class which has 5 hooks and averages 4 tractors per event. They are all Southern Pa. and South. They don't pull North of there. It sounds like a good class for that area. We just do fair pulls etc. were we fit in. We still run the GT42 2.8 which seems to be a sturdy turbo. I think all the organizations are great and only showed Interstate because of how far they've come in HP and the expense to build that power.
I had way more fun back in the 90's with the 4320 that cost $7500 with a $500 turbo and some work done on the rotary pump. That tractor was in the top 3 in the 9000 farm class anywhere we went. It only took some little things to make it run good vs. vendor parts at a high cost. The local hardware store owner would ask what are you doing now. I said top secret stuff. I love the sport and really like to see the younger generations continue to pull but it's not easy on their ability to do so.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 15, 2023 07:55AM
I don't think it is any different than it was yrs ago, just more prevalent now, more power, bigger changes, more cheating, always was, but vast differences in what some consider stock, or how to interpret and follow rules.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 16, 2023 07:52AM
I think...in this post the interpretation of all of what I'm reading is hot farm is a starter class.
I would agree, and it should be with a set of set rules .
This is just my opinion, some people stay in the same class for years or for ever.
Hot farm is a starter class .., the same as in the early years like the super farm class was.
They just keep adding classes and changing rules , but the big picture is missed .
So this leads to my answer

If you want to keep hot farm entry level., In my opinion there is only one way to do it .
You cannot have the same guys pulling hot farm for 20 consecutive years.
Those guys build equity and experience running those tractors and perfect them year after year .
It's the same as the super farm now.
The same money now is in a super farm, is in a prostock a mod turbo , light pro, (super stock local )ect .
Hot farm is getting there ., And it will.
Guys stay in those classes year after year so they look good beating the low end competition.
Let's face the facts , no matter what class you split or start history will repeat itself .

Your local ppl sanctioned classes will always be around . Especially local pulling organizations.
Ppl should put a limit on how many years a competitor can compete on the entry level or starter class levels .
This will push the non starter pullers or veteran class pullers into the more competitive classes making for a better competitive class .
It's the only way , some move up some don't.
If you've pulled in an entry level class for 10 to 15 years won multiple times along with championships and are scared to move up . That tells you they fear losing and excelling in pulling. Or they are scared of the next level of competition. They feel righteous putting 50' on entry level competitors .
It's sounds contradictory because I stated above all class tractors are starting to cost the same .
The reason being they are not forced to move up a level after so many years .

Unfortunately, hot farm is becoming the same . Super farm is there .
Kudos to the guys who move up and make way for the entry level starters
That's how u grow pulling
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Mistake in the rules March 16, 2023 08:14AM
Point A is where the class started.

Point B is where the class is now.

My ?- What rules should have been added/changed/deleted over the years that would have kept the class closer to Point A.
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Re: Mistake in the rules March 16, 2023 11:23AM
Jake, I think the answer to your questions is kinda implied by super farm pullers answer. He’s not saying that everyone that’s been pulling hot farm for awhile should move up he’s just saying that the guys that have been spending super farm money on a hot farm to put 40ft on everyone should move up.
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Re: Mistake in the rules March 16, 2023 01:03PM
I was basing my opinion off of an entry level class or starter class.

I guess I should have defined my opinion a little better .

If your going to have an entry level class you can't have it on the same financial means as the rest of the classes .

Case in point . Nytpa splits there super farm class with modturbo .
Super farm use to be an entry level class . It is by no means an entry level class any more in nytpa ( no pun ). It is a very tough class to start in.
If, nytpa hadn't added the 4.1 class by popular puller demand .
Would the super farm class open the door for more entry level pullers ? Maybe , but there are still 10 -15 long term great running tractors . Should a few move up ? Long term ones.
Looking at the class as I know it . The 4-5 top shelf tractors that moved to 4.1a few years ago were great tractors. If they would have stayed . There would be 20+ super farms in that class.
10 of which would dominate the class every week .
In my opinion, had they stayed in that class, the entry level tractors would be horribly discouraged to continue in the sport had these tractors stayed in the class.
Like I said , do those pullers feel righteous running 15 years in an entry level class.
Again, I say no, they moved up as they out powered and outgrew what was an entry level super farm class and moved to 4.1 .
Now , kudos to nytpa for making that class. We all know super farm and 4.1 are the same cubes .
Obviously there is a lot of financial changes to move to 4.1 from super farm ..Wich we could drag out for hours in moving up to that class . Don't want to get off topic.

So I guess to answer # 1. If your a below average puller and can't finish in the top ten for years you have proved to be just having fun, or your budget doesn't allow you to be in the top ten. So yes , I spoke before thoughtful thinking on that a little bit. But, your a front runner now if the rest moved up . Possibly. Remember entry level class.
If your still finishing bad, I guess your still entry level.


#2 watch nytpa 540 modturbo or a 510 modturbo . They run an a pump with unlimited turbo .
They certainly compete . Won the points the last 2 years in a row. Hot farm turbos are same price as 4.1 . Look on harts site.
A 510 will run a 4.1

Nytpa changed the payout on super farm . They stopped paying 17 spots back and only pay 12 back now .
It was done to try and make people perform better to get in the payout. Instead of pulling and just getting paid.

I think hot farm has to be entry level class to get people started in the sport . I think the sport needs a change .
Obviously it's not working great .

My long term goals won't be to stay in super farm just to pull and have fun. You have to have a competitiveness in you
If I'm not running in respectable finishes , why am I pulling? Do pullers enjoy finishing in the bottomed 3 for ten years ?
If so, your going to phase out eventually because you just can't compete .
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Re: Mistake in the rules March 16, 2023 12:01PM
Laughable that we would force people to leave a class that they built for, no matter how long they have been there. That speaks to someone who simply wants the best competitors to leave his class so he can win.

The elephant in the room is that the way classes are currently structured is almost impossible to move up each level without completely starting over. That’s why guys don’t move up every few years. Until that is addressed, it’s not gonna change. We could start by culling back the cubes on the bigger classes. If we had a time machine and could go back and cap the Pro Stocks @ 540, we would not have near the problems we have now.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 16, 2023 11:13AM
Two questions (technically four for you sticklers out there):

1. What if you're a terrible(or below average) Hot Farm puller? What if you've been in the class for a while but still don't win, should you still be forced to move up?
2. What if your budget doesn't allow you to move up? What if the next step up in your area is Super Farm? Your 466 or 510 probably won't be a ton of fun to run against the 640's. That's a pretty big jump for many teams that run on a limited budget.

I agree that it's awesome when pullers step up to the next class but I'm not in favor of forcing anyone out of a class.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 16, 2023 11:25AM
I think the answer to your questions is kinda implied by super farm pullers answer. He’s not saying that everyone that’s been pulling hot farm for awhile should move up he’s just saying that the guys that have been spending super farm money on a hot farm to put 40ft on everyone should move up.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 16, 2023 12:25PM
If the rules are written correctly, with sensible limits, the competition will stay competitive even with big spending gaps. I’d love to see a ‘hot farm’ class with rule as such

9000lbs
20.8 tires
Box turbo (gt42-s400)
Open rpm
13mm P-pump
Factory CI (IH 466, Jd small block 466, bb531, blue 474, case 504, 540 v8’s all the other can run an 8.3 cummins)

I think the very best of them could make near 1200hp but most all of them would make 1100hp. You could build one for 60% of the current cost, you wouldn’t be constantly playing the outdated parts game. It would be extremely reliable without the need of billet rods, steel sleeves, girdle, recast head, $5000 clutch. And I might bring in the diversity without cross dressing.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 16, 2023 02:35PM
Quote
Dairy blend
If the rules are written correctly, with sensible limits, the competition will stay competitive even with big spending gaps. I’d love to see a ‘hot farm’ class with rule as such

9000lbs
20.8 tires
Box turbo (gt42-s400)
Open rpm
13mm P-pump
Factory CI (IH 466, Jd small block 466, bb531, blue 474, case 504, 540 v8’s all the other can run an 8.3 cummins)

I think the very best of them could make near 1200hp but most all of them would make 1100hp. You could build one for 60% of the current cost, you wouldn’t be constantly playing the outdated parts game. It would be extremely reliable without the need of billet rods, steel sleeves, girdle, recast head, $5000 clutch. And I might bring in the diversity without cross dressing.

Not bad ideas, but what you listed, at least in my opinion, isn't a starter class. 1200 hp is not a starter class.

Sascha posted about this in another thread not long ago, and in my opinion, the Germans got this one right. Box turbos vary from unit to unit, hard to make things fair with that rule. But a restriction on intake size, most importantly, on atmospheric opening, would be the most effective. Write the rule correctly, enforce it properly, and the high dollar pumps and turbos no only become wasted money, but potentially counterproductive.

Also, without the need for the big pumps, or turbos, there also isn't the need for billet rotating assemblies, etc.

Next, why put term limits on class participation? Better to restrict the horsepower, and stop the horsepower growth. A 1066 IH was factory rated at around 100 hp, why does everyone feel the need to have 10X that for a "hot farm" class?
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 01:46AM
I'm not sure you should penalize pullers for performing well. Some have worked 20 years to get to a good performance level. Maybe because of their budget or whatever. We quit pulling the farm stock and got a 466 Hot Farm tractor a few years ago so my grandson and I could share the seat (he's the better driver). We are slowly building up to a competitive level. Can we afford to put $50,000 in it in a year or 2 to get it in top 3. No. I may never live to see it run that good, So I hope that he isn't penalized for taking too long to get there.
I still see the biggest issue is the lack of standardized rules In the Hot Farm class. I hate the thought of anymore classes. I liked the Hot Farm 510 cubes on 20.8's from Ohio that pulled with the bigger cubes at Keystone last night. They did really good.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 02:40AM
IMHO, there will never be a fair level playing field any where in competitive motor sports, HELL IN ANY SPORT, look at men now competing in women's sports,(without using the sawzall !), and many times with rules in place, they are not enforced. Some folks just out think, our spend, out finesse others.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 02:46AM
We have some more measures in place, that address some of the points here.

But knowing the dyno numbers here, I keep wondering where you guys get your hp numbers from.
We run 427 cubes at 2700 rpm combined with 360cui / 3200 rpm with a 2.66 restrictor, 3000 Bosch pumps, small HX60s or big HX 55s and they all are around the 1000 hp mark.

None of them has billet rods or custom-made pistons. We had some new guys in their early 20s, who finished top 5 in the class residing in our workshop last year and except for the cam and very mild headwork, that engine is bone stock and they had about 25k in the tractor.
They don't break anything and are very easy to maintain.

These things:

[youtu.be]

Take the 2.66 restrictors off - and it goes billet, 4-inch turbo, and 2000 hp - still on 2700/3200 rpm!

But back to "how we keep teams moving up".
They can use the same base tractor in all three levels - 1.4 inch restrictor 9000 lbs - 2.66 inch restrictor 7700 lbs - no restrictor 7900 lbs (200 lbs for rollcage).

The 1.4-inch guys don't run for points, don't get any money, often have the terrible time slots (sunday morning 10 am etc), and actually get to run everywhere. They can qualify for the "finals" in the middle of the country at the end of the year and become German Champion there. They HATE that - but it's for their own good.

The 2.66 guys get a little money, and run a point series - however the 5 worst results get dropped. They are also not in the good time slots and often just a "filler class" at big events.

The "only rpm limit" guys really run for points, get to run chosen events only, run in front of the big crowds, and receive pretty decent prize money. They are also a "Euro Cup" (aka Grand National) class. That's where the fame is and where they want to be seen....


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2023 02:54AM by Sascha.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 07:27AM
I was at some local fairs on east coast. I seen and talked to the driver of the white and black stallion. Those tractors run good for 466 motors. White tractor has rotary and only 3000 rpm. That tractor wins a lot of pulls. I didn’t see black stallion for few years. I hope he didn’t sell it.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 07:48AM
This is the restrictor we've made them put in front of the turbo - air coming in from the left, causing turbulences on the edge. A smooth line into any turbo doesn't really do anything in terms of restriction.

Sizes are in mm - but that thing works and can be scaled to whatever you want to.

38mm (1.5 inch) is about 400 hp
68mm (2.66 inch) is about 1050 hp

The "cheap" part about this is, that the HX60 coming on the Scania Semis here, which you can find on any semi-salvage yard for a few hundred bucks, works perfectly, and from our experience, cam, and pump timing (fuel has to exactly hit the edge of the piston chamber) are much more important than the turbo - and too big of a pump forces you into incorrect timing, not improving your overall engine performance at all.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2023 07:56AM by Sascha.


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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 18, 2023 02:32PM
I've been beating the drum for restrictor tubes for a few decades. I'm not sure why, but for some reason many pullers in the US seem to hate the idea. To me it seems like the easiest and cheapest way to level any playing field while still allowing guys to run whatever turbocharger they want.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 19, 2023 10:21PM
Believe me - The Pullerrs HATE that thing here, too and in the beginning, when we introduced it, I was actually threatened if Id show up at events.
This has changed and many, who run in classes without the restrictor and have been outspend, told me now, that actually we did the right thing.

Still every other year we get a proposal from teams who have been running for a few years, to make it bigger, raise the prize money for the lower levels and run for points
"because they want to bring the sport forward".

But if we did this, we'd lose the relatively easy way into the sport, which we need to keep new guys coming in.

In my opinion, they want to "raise the bar of entry-level" as they are not willing to step up a class, worrying they can't win one level up.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 17, 2023 07:40AM
The variation in box turbo performance is a head scratcher for me. I have bought several namebrand Performance built turbos, from well respected grand national super farm puller’s, because that particular turbo was weaker on the Dyno than another identical turbo from the same builder. If you’re pulling with people who are willing to buy 2,3,4,5 of the same part and Dyno each one of them on their tractor they will find the very best Stuff. Regardless if you have a box turbo rule or not they’re going to spend that money and have that advantage. A box turbo rule just keeps the overall performance/competition much closer.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 19, 2023 06:03AM
Here in Indiana, Hot Farm is far from a starter class. Indiana Super Farm Pullers, which through a merger with Indiana Modified Pullers, became Indiana Pulling League (IPL). Those Hot Farms have about a 25 year (maybe more) history of great success - pullers and spectator appeal alike. Their rules are the ones adopted by NTPA & PPL.

We are blessed with a plethora of what I call starter classes. A multitude of classes adorn numerous local sanctioned Garden Tractor pulling, an absolute huge vast array of sanctioned Antique classes, unsanctioned Farm Stock (pure Farm Stock to mind blowing powerful enhanced Farm Stock +) and Pickup Trucks abound everywhere.

Sanctioned pulling:
Indiana Truck Pullers Assoc. has a few classes, as does Michindoh.
Farm Stock: Southern IN Farm Stock Pullers have a few variations, I believe (I've never been to 1 of their pulls). IPL has a Farm Stock 10 mph max and King of the Hill 15 mph, both of which certainly requires much more than a pure Farm Stock. Thumb Tractor Pullers in eastern Michigan and Western Michigan Pullers have similar/identical classes. They are popular with those 3 latter association pullers and certainly appear to be such with the spectators, too.

IPL's 'step up in classes' are: F-10 mph Farm Stock. K- 15 mph King of the Hill. M- Single Engine Modified. 2.6- 2.6 Diesel Trucks. 3.0- 3.0 Diesel Trucks. A- Altered Farm. H- Hot Farm. SF- Super Farm. LLP - Light Limited Pro Stock. LC - Light Super Stock Combo (allows a combination of different classes to compete in this one class).

As you can see, Hot Farm is the 7th class of progression of the 10 classes. Obviously not a true starter class at the young grass roots basis. Yes, there are pullers that start their pulling career with IPL in the Hot Farm.
Incidentally, here is an IPL few day old Facebook clip:
"We have had some interest in starting an entry level class. This is what we are proposing.
466 cu in.
P pump
S 300 box charger
3000 rpm
Safety and chassis rules to follow the Hot Farm class.
18.4 or 20.8 38/42 top cut tires.
No aluminum wheels front or back.
Weight to be determined (10-12k)
No speed limit
If we get enough interest we would start booking this in 2024 pulling season.
Let us know what you think."
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 19, 2023 02:45PM
Check out the Illini State Pullers 2 Hot 2 Farm. There are also af few Associations in Wisconsin that run the same rules or very similar. Most of the tractors in the Farm Stock class from the Midwest Winter Nationals.

Their rules are very similar to what you are proposing

Sealed 480 cubic inch motor
Sealed S-362 charger
2 port water supplied by Colberg Hi Performance
13 mm P-7100 max pump
3000 Rpms
All safety Equipment (tie bars, safety blanket, wheelie bars, roll cage, air shut off, and side shields)
Top cut tires 20.8 38s or 18.4 42s
11,000 lbs

Check out our Facebook page

Koch Pulling Team


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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 21, 2023 02:42AM
I wish we could get a class like this going in SW MN Also. Love watching the class!
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 20, 2023 12:03PM
This certainly has brought some perspective into my previous posts . It certainly has opened my mind a little bit.

One things for sure to my point., ,,

I'm sure glad Brett Hearne, Dale Earnhardt ,Jeff Gordon didn't stay in street stock cars .
We would have never known who they were ..or what they stood for in motorsports.
They went from the bottom to the top level in motorsports. They certainly didn't start out with money
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 21, 2023 12:23AM
I think thats the mentality that is hurting pulling growth. Hot Farm may be an entry level class per the rule book, but other guys need to stop referring to it as the bottom of the ladder. You gotta get your noses out of the air and realize that not everyone in this world has the resources, whether it be time or money to build something higher up the food chain than a hot farm. For every Earnhardt, or Jeff Gordon there are hundreds of local racing guys that worked just as hard and have the same talent but never got their big break. Its not because they didnt want to move up. The world is changing and the popularity of a hot farm tractor is growing because guys have made other classes completely unobtainable. Please realize to a guy that may have pulled a Farmall M for 15 years in antique classes, finally building a competitive hot farm very well may be his peak due to his resources and it should be celebrated because that guy is keeping the sport growing. Are there exceptions? sure. There are guys that like ensuring they are 1st all the time and dont want to move up, but you have that in every form of motorsports everywhere, but those are the people that also provide the motivation and drive for the other "little" guys to keep improving.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 21, 2023 11:53AM
Quote
Super farm puller
I'm sure glad Brett Hearne, Dale Earnhardt ,Jeff Gordon didn't stay in street stock cars .
We would have never known who they were ..or what they stood for in motorsports.
They went from the bottom to the top level in motorsports. They certainly didn't start out with money

The problem with your logic... the top level in other motorsport makes you money (more and more money with your NSCAR example). The top level in pulling cost you more money (more and more money as you step up). That is a HUGE difference. Not everyone can afford to step up in pulling. Pulling is a great way to lose money.


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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 22, 2023 09:56AM
Ok .
I just said though , those names would not be famous if they stayed in Street stock .
Nothing about money..
But let's talk money a bit so you get some factual #s.

So what is your logic ? Everyone should stay hot farm forever ? Should competitors not move up ?
Actually, reading the responses, there are no entry level classes in PPL as I'm reading and understanding the posts correctly.
Everyone wants to create more classes to substitute budgets ?
I would say that when you can get into the ppl organization, your in a financial situation to afford
Paying:
800$ for tractor and driver . Per year
Local pulling organizational dues $100.per year
Additional tractor Driver $400$ per year
Crew costs and voting rights for the local pulling organizations
Add extra costs . ( Say 200$)
Hook fee 45$ per hook regardless of membership
You must make 2/3 of events to get a points check if you finish , if I recall
The top 10.or 12. Get points checks ( Don't quote me on that one )
Most organizations have sanctioned 15 class specific hooks for super farm/4.1 ect.
You must finish in the top 12 to get paid at an event
To agree with some , yes .. super farm to superstock is the same fee to
Sign up for the year , meaning you are correct on it's not entry level.
I can't speak for other class payouts. ( Ss,4.1 ect .)

If your a non member it's roughly 150$ to hook per event .

If pullers have this money to throw away every week just to hook with no
Intentions to ever make themselves better or just have fun .
I would say the pulling organizations are headed down hill.
And I do not believe, as ppl is business, they want this happening.
They have to sell there pulling organizations members to fairs/ect to get shows.

I'm not sure the sport would go anywhere with 65 hot farm tractors in one class forever


This is kind of a hard subject , tough to debate
Every sentence is debated and interpreted differently to suit people's on agenda and opinions
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 22, 2023 11:54AM
I can only imagine. If you can do most of the work yourself you are going to be 40-50k for a front of the pack new york hotfarm 466 tractor. You will be 25 in a long block before fuel and air add 11-12 for the best pump and turbo and you still need a chassis 10-12 in the rear and Trans then get a tube frame tin work tiebars hitch roll cage (if you can find one) water system and all the small stuff that adds up. Your almost there one more thing rims and tires.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 22, 2023 03:29AM
I don’t have a dog in the fight yet but I do agree with what’s been said. If you’re trying to stay competitive in hot farm anymore and you don’t make a crap ton of money it’s gonna be really hard or near impossible. Unfortunately I’m not one of those with money but I AM gonna have a tractor built within 2-3 years. Won’t have the nicest turbo, won’t have the nicest pump, won’t have billet rods (good pistons though), probably wont even have cut tires for awhile. But I’m still gonna send it and have as much fun as the winner Spinning and I think that’s another problem. Everybody is so hung up on winning which I do understand, but people are forgetting to have fun as well. That’s what it’s all about, right?
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 22, 2023 03:57AM
Exactly Nailey
We all get a rush win or lose I know I definitely can’t afford to run with the big dogs , but I enjoy it just the same and still get a win sometimes with consistency, sometimes guys get a little greedy and push it too hard or a little squirlley and I just cruise on by, I always said it’s a win if I drive it on the trailer
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 22, 2023 04:40AM
I am very curious what it would cost to have a top of the line 466 Hot Farm built by someone like Moore Motor Sports. I've never asked them because you know the old saying "if you have to ask then you can't afford it".
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 23, 2023 04:44AM
I’d say if you were stsrting from scratch you’d have every bit of 125k in a complete build.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 23, 2023 12:29PM
If I was building one, I'd find an old cast chassis ss to start with. I can think of 3 just off the top of my head that are sitting in sheds near me.
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Re: Hot Farm is changing March 23, 2023 01:15PM
Worse part is, you can’t buy information. These guys building top dollar engines have the dynos and are able to figure out the optimal numbers, which gives them such a Jump on competition. Some guys will talk and give pointers but they keep the numbers that matter to themselves which is their right and it’s their business, but it just adds to the complication.
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