12:48:04am, Tuesday, June 17, 2025
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The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,673 |
I reread the proposed NTPA rules that were submitted by pullers and NTPA tech staff and I gleaned some things that I found interesting. In no particular order, these are a few.
1; DSS turbo limits, never going to happen. But should 2; SF intercoolers. I totally agree that the NTPA needs to follow PPL’s rules as far as intercoolers are concerned. I love it when people say that PPL just copied the NTPA rule. That is what pulling needs to survive, uniform rules. That is such a no brainer. This approach of writing rules so no one else can play in my sand box has to end! 3 ; Semi proposal eliminating cabover is a good idea. I was about 50’ away when Jack Kielmeyer tossed the engine out of his truck. The hood flew off and the engine landed on the track.A cabover driver would not escape unhurt. 4; Unlimited mini’s, I love the idea of having at least one pulling class that lets the builder/owner be creative with their build. Rules should only restrict weight, length, tire size and have all safety requirements in place. 5; However a couple things were mentioned several times. A rule book rewrite or better yet a redo. Each class should have a section in the book that pertains to just their class. No more of ‘’ look at rules under PS’’ when you don’t run a PS. Rules for each separate class. No more gray area that is open to interpretation, such as when we have a rule but we really don’t enforce it. Well that's great, write a rule that only gets enforced on a whim. 6; However the number one thing that I took away was the LSS debacle at BG that the NTPA created. Nothing like looking totally incompetent. First a DQ, then a rescind, then some “ lets cut the baby in half “ idea to satisfy everyone. I read that the “ momentary confusion “ was the answer for their own mess. Momentary is not a press release 4 DAYS later. 7; The signing up on a Monday to qualify for a pull on the weekend is ridiculous, the whole goal for the NTPA ( and all organizations ) should to make life easier for the pullers NOT harder. I know that they have their reasons for this idea, however it's counterproductive. What's the penalty for signing up and not showing up? As one person said that's the reason for so many NS on the results page. The fans and promoters expect to a certain number in the class and several don't show for various reasons. There are other rules that never made any sense are things like the 48 v 52 lugs in PS, why? Measuring the Mitas tires after they came out of the mold, not when they were track ready. Why didn't they measure the 903 Cummins when it came off the molding line also? 8; If the NTPA is going to post "The NTPA is the sport’s oldest and most respected truck and tractor pulling sanctioning organization ‘’ then act like it. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2024 09:01AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Face in crowd
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I'm not a puller. How would the SF intercooler rule work in the NTPA? Is there some sort of allowance for non intercooler tractors?
I'm not educated on the topic so anyone who wants to inform me on this feel free. But what's the attraction to having intercoolers? If everyone has them, what difference does it make? It seems like an all around pain in the ass to deal with the ice. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Badgerfan
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PPL allows intercoolers and NTPA does not on the Super Farm class. Been told the Intercooler adds power ( I have heard several different numbers) and it also adds life to the motor since cylinder and engine temps are not as hot without the cooler on it.
Dick, why does NTPA irritate you so much? I wasn't going to comment like everyone else but since I am offering help to Face in the crowd I have to say it. I have issues with most of your post but we are all entitled to our opinion, not really your post but more how you word it, I will leave it there. I am curious why you hate #7 so much when all of the competitors I talked to like the change? |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,673 |
Badger, thanks for your response, I agree, in retrospect I could have, I should have done a better job of presenting my opinion. I certainty believe that the NTPA is the leader in show quality, safety, overall integrity of the sport, but lets be honest the situation with the LSS at BG was not what I would expect from the NTPA. The time that it took to sort it all this out should be an embarrassment for them. I believe that there were to many people trying to figure out the best solution to the problem, to many varying opinions . Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Why
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Dick, I cannot for the life of me understand why or how Intercoolers were ever permitted in the superfarm class? Oh wait a minute,,,, I know why, for the same reason that 640 cubic inches were allowed, someone found a loophole and built the big cubes, and someone found a loophole and built with a cooler and then instead of shutting the door on big cubes and coolers, they just caved a d allowed them in the rules. This is exactly why superfarms and any class that has extreme rule limits that should have never been allowed to start with become law. Please tell me why it makes any sense at all why the added expense which everyone cries about should be??? Coolers add significantly to the cost of the build and added cost to maintain and use. Again, coolers and 640 ci have no place in superfarms. Just my honest opinion. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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a lil' history
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No loophole was found. As has been stated many times on here over many years, 640 allows for the Perkins 640 V8 and Cat 3208 (636 cube) that were 'stock' engines in original 2 wheel drive production farm tractors. That is basically the same scenario with PS 680 cubes except that when NTPA in a long overdue situation to finally install cubic limits in all classes, the largest PS competing engine at the time was 680, so that became the PS benchmark. And basically the same exact scenario for Super Stock Open as 650 is their cube max.
Intercoolers became about with PPL accepting them into their SF class. Any of those SF tractors can disconnect the plumbing to the intercooler and go pull NTPA. I have a friend that does that. He pulls both sanctioning bodies during the summer season. A few years ago, at the SSD division meeting just prior to the big Enderle rules proposal meeting, the majority of attending SSD pullers did not want any limits of any kind associated with the engine. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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EFV
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IIRC,NTPA Super Stock got a 650 cubic inch limit after they got wind that
Dennis Johnson ( Shagnastyer) had a 773 ci Deutz engine installed for the coming season. Combination never saw the track and Dennis sat out that season. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Don’t have a dog in the hunt.
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I never understood why they ever allowed intercooler’s, packing around 100lbs of ice is unbelievable, Look at Outlaws sf class they make more power than the cooler tractors, all they had to do to gain hp to spin there wheels was put on a bigger charger. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Do tell
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Lil history, please elaborate on what production models of 2wd tractors came out of the box with a 640 Perkins or a 636 Cat?? Please educate me. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Massey 2770, 2775, 2800 and 2805 all had Perkins 640
Cu in in 2wd form in the 80’s. I think White 2-180 had the CAT |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Student
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By golly Bob you are right!! Winner winner chicken dinner!!! However, how many of these models actually pull in the super farm class?? I'm talking across the country in the sanctioned organizations. Please educate me some more! |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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EFV
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Early version of Bad Medicine pulled Super Farm. Tractor went to Canada and was named Bad Kitty |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 296 |
There was an Oliver with a 3208 Cat at BG. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Registered: 03/31/2016 Posts: 112 |
2770 2775 2800 and 2805 massey for the 640 perkins
2255 Oliver and 2-180 White came with the 3208 |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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well
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Intercoolers are pointless, everyone gains the same hp with the added pain in the ass. Ntpa and ppl super farm is just a chemistry and turbo game, who can doctor the fuel or water a little better that day probably wins. It's a joke that they don't go to a spec fuel/water and possibly a box turbo that would force them to actually find their power mechanically than just dump go go juice in. But enjoy paying 8 grand for the latest turbo that everyone will have anyways. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Reporter
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Oh Contraire Well! No everybody won't have the same latest turbos. Only the big spenders that are in tight with the turbo builder will get the latest edition. Everyone else will get older generation units that didn't sell and are on the shelf. Been going on for years. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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it smells of
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If you think the other Diesel classes are not playing the "chemistry and turbo game", then you are not paying attention to what is happening at the dyno shop and in the pits. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Teen Spirit
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Couldn't resist.
RIP Kurt Kobain. Gotta be David Groll drumming. Anyone else is a pretender. Oh, and I don't hear any bitching about $35,000.00 pro stock turbos. I doubt those fellows are doing the chemistry bullcrap. The more limited the class, the more cheating. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Ice Cold
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Weird I do not see anyone bitching about using ice and an intercooler in Prostock LLSS or any other class using them.
Nobody is trying to get them banned in classes using them. Superfarm should have never had a 640cid. NEVER!! For those trying to make the argument for the Oliver and the Massey then NTPA Profarm and PPL Hotfarm should have a 640 limit so those 2 can participate. Prostock 680 SS at 650 way out of line never should have happened either. Bigger better bigger better you are also the people buying penis pumps. "I doubt those fellows are doing the chemistry bullcrap." Yeah ok... Just because someone has alot of money they can spend they are honest... 
That right there is funny you should be a politician. "Intercoolers are pointless, everyone gains the same hp with the added pain in the ass." No not everyone gains the same. This is more about unifying the rules across the country so people Do not have to change setups to go pull and different events. I would be willing to bet well now since we can bet on pulling. That the people who do pull with a cooler and do attend events with out one would tell you that the severe pain and agony of handling the ice is less painful than the work it takes to disconnect and also change possibly fuel timing and water to pull without a cooler. It is not just as simple you Nay sayers think. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Sad
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diesel super nedds limits or its gonna be an exhibition class in five years. to think that one of the two classes the NTPA was built on has been divided on the fuels for years and now ypur lucky to see 7 diesel tractors make a hook at a GN pull its a shame Maybe the leadership in WPI NTPA need put their big boy pants on and lead their pullers and the sport for their good. the inmates are running the assylum and its time the warden took back over. limit the air limit the fuel its yhat dam simpal |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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nri_n15
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Fwiw…. I think the DSS class is finding their limits on their own. If they want to keep their tractors/motors together, they’re gonna have to not push quite so far. That’s all part of pulling imo; if you’re going to be successful over a season, you have to know the limit and figure out how close you can get and keep your stuff together.
Everyone’s $$$ to just have spare parts laying around runs out at some point. So ya…dial back or the class dies; but won’t take new rule limits to make that happen. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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used to be awesome
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The DSS class used to be awesome. The last few years it's the class I get least excited about - especially if it is a 2 day event. Because even if there are 20 of them on day one, you be lucky if 8 run the next day. Simply pitiful to watch, I can't imagine wanting that poor of reliability. It can't be fun working on them extensively EVERY week. But hey.....they are the ones that constantly continue to try and squeeze more out of them so whatever I guess. The fact that one tractor in the class openly admits he comes to the pull not just to win, but to win by 50' if possible says it all...... |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,513 |
Case in point- Bowling Green had a good turnout of 17 that made a pass in first hook. Only 10 in second hook. There are several guys that only made one event all year long. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,513 |
I suspect NTPA got their idea from NHRA and other orgs like NASCAR and USAC. For example, anyone can go to NHRA Registratiin website and see who is registered for each individual national event in every class. IndyCar, NASCAR and USAC all publish entry lists the week of the race. In theory it's a sound idea. The problem is like many things NTPA does, they didn't think it through. This may not be correct, but from the outside it appears pullers in the free entry program were listed at all the events even if they had no plans to come. This is a mistake. For example, from memory it seems Hulls were on several lists but they only ran at Tomah. Ditto for Matt Goodwin. Wasn't Billy Biers listed as entered and never hooked once? The NHRA has entry fees for sportsmen and if they're entered, do not withdraw by noon Pacific time the Monday of the race, they forfeit their entry fee. The final pro lists are almost always accurate. If NTPA is going to have the entry deadline, perhaps there should be costs associated with entering and no-showing. Again, I don't know the regulations, but maybe free entry should not equal automatic entry (if that's what occurred this year). There were lots of pullers on final event entry lists who never showed. |
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Re: The NTPA rule proposal, my 50 mile view of it.
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Ppl puller
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Basically. In a nut shell
The intercooler puts more hurt on the SF engine than good . Everyone will tell you this . It causes the engine to lug down more and produce more torque. Lugging kills the SF engines . The crankshafts can't take an engine lugging down to 2000 -2500 rpm. Non cooler engines can't do that . Everyone wants it , but there are not the parts available to repair 500 more SF cooler tractors . The organizations will start to suffer by #s |
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