not changing the rules ?? January 22, 2025 12:48AM
Discussion at the diner this am was,what ntpa class has had the least amount of rules changes over the years ?
My guess is 4x4's,the hitch was one and dropping a weight class was other,i couldn't come up with any more tho I'm sure there was.2wd would probably be in number 2.
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 22, 2025 12:49AM
Thought of super farm after I posted as probably number 1
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 22, 2025 01:30AM
Both of your guesses make sense to me. I would argue 4x4 or TWD based on first thought that popped into my head.

Maybe minis?

The second argument then is both the 4x4 and TWD truck classes have great numbers. Is the lack of rule changes one of the reasons both of the classes have great numbers? Is it also the reason both classes are driver classes?
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 22, 2025 02:05AM
They have great numbers because they are reliable there drivetrain stays together. And there some what affordable to build if they were having to stay with the rear axle that matches there body most s10 rears wouldn’t tighten the chain…..
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 22, 2025 02:41AM
I would argue with that last statement. I know guys that run both classes, they are not any more affordable to build than a tractor and reliability is the same as any other class when looking at engines and drivetrains. It all depends how hard you want push them, especially when they bounce. I do agree, they are the most left alone classes with rule changes though.

I think they have good numbers because they are more relatable. The average person can relate more to a truck than a tractor. Back in the day the guys lifting and building there trucks could easily relate to the 4x4 class. That is why the diesel truck class took off, now younger guys have more diesels than gassers, back in the day gas was more popular than the diesel on the road. Same reason drag racing used to be so big and has since diminished. Everyone used to have a car they wanted to race or relate to. Now trucks are the go to versus cars. Not counting the increase of video games and computers, the younger generation now wants to sit home and play on there computer.
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 23, 2025 10:18AM
I would say they are definitely more reliable than tractors, at least tractors in a comparable national-level class. Particularly 4WD. Yes, they may break on occasion, but a 4WD breaking a driveshaft or an axle, or a TWD coughing a blower is much different than a tractor splitting a block and dumping its guts all over the track, or even chucking a $X-XX,000 turbo. Moreover, engine parts in the automotive-based classes have the advantage of parts availability from the wider automotive performance engine world. Tractor engines, whether diesel or ag-based alcohol, are pretty much full of bespoke parts, from the rotating assembly to the turbo. Automotive-based engines have 70 years of drag racing that has developed a much broader market for the basic building blocks of their motors. There are a lot more companies with components on the shelf, and a lot more good used parts available, for a blown hemi (or naturally aspirated big cube BBC/BBF) than for the EXTREMELY niche market of high-level ag-based pulling tractor engines.

Talking about numbers, though, one of the biggest advantages I have always seen for FWD especially is the availability of hooks and consistency of rules. Particularly if you are an NTPA 650 CI truck, you can hook competitively at everything from local events to the GN circuit if you want. PPL too, if you don't mind being at a cubic inch disadvantage to the big time trucks. I could buy/build a FWD truck and pull at my local pulls (in an actual class, against other actual trucks- not an exhibition) and, with that same truck and same basic setup I can tweak, learn, and work my way up to the GN level. If I have lots of time and money one year and want to pull all I can, I can probably hook a dozen times a month within a couple hours of home. Or if I am a national-type puller and I want to step back, I can, and I don't have to sell my vehicle and buy a different one or completely rebuild- I can just start going to pulls closer to home when I feel like it with the same setup. Consistent rules (both between organizations and over time), good reliability, not too many crazy rides (other than some occasional crazy bouncing), and a lack of dilution by constantly making new, similar classes (a la single charger tractors) make FWD a solid and stable, if not sexy, class.
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Re: not changing the rules ?? January 24, 2025 01:18AM
We all have our own opinions. If your looking or ever talked/worked with a 2 wheel drive for 4x4 competitor you would know driveline breakage usually means motor tear down. You'd also know these trucks don't use "off the shelf" parts used in drag racing or off road racing. They run custom built heads blocks gear boxes. I think what makes them seem more reliable is they usually have a back up motor in the trailer and can swap them out fairly quickly and pull again the next day versus when a tractor blows he's done for a while. I do agree when they blow it's not near as spectacular as a tractor, but I don't think they are any more reliable.

I don't see allot of NTPA guys jumping up in the PPL or Outlaw mountain motor class, the biggest mistake in my opinion is making 2 classes out of the mod 4x4 class. I think it is hurting PPL in all honesty. NTPA still has a strong 4x4 class when PPL struggles to pull half what NTPA does. I still don't understand why farm show or tpc use PPL rules when there are less of them and few NTPA guys willing to jump up. When you do see them jump up they usually fall behind in most cases. I.E. Foolish farmer used to occasionally, at Mackville he was back half of the class against PPL the next week in Tomah he won in impressive fashion. You don't have as many as you used to either, Grand national used to be like the 2 wheelers you could see 70 of them. There's not allot of them when you get down to the regional level, what local level are you talking about? Get away from the major organizations and there is no place for the mod 4x4 or 2 wheelers. Diesel classes are a different story, but goes back to my last comment. Younger people now are into there diesel trucks not there gassers.

One note what tractor class are you comparing to the trucks? If it is the supers then I would probably give it to you, but you'd have to take into consideration the boost they are putting into that block compared to the trucks. Any other class I disagree.
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