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Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Iowafarmboy
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What happened to the 2 ECI LLSS that were registered to hook yesterday at the Iowa State fair? Saw them registered but they never hooked or showed up on the results. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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underconst
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We were sacred of their 410cu in motors, 3x3 turbos, 24.5 tires and INTERCOOLERS. I mean 600 cu in motors and 4" turbos are no match for those INTERCOOLERS. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Road work
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You’d have likely been top 5 |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 339 |
They don’t have 3x3 turbos and they knew the rules when they signed up. Plus you can’t run a 400 series in front of a small chassis rear end. I was surprised to see them on the list so I figured they changed their rules but obviously not. Yes they most likely would have been in the top 5, they also have spent enough to be in the top 5 with them. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Iowafarmboy
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I guess I was always told a legal LLSS was welcome to come hook with LSS as long as they followed llss rules.....guess thats not the case anymore. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Ialss
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They still have the block matching rear rule? No where else does..
Losing out on tractors. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/26/2019 Posts: 33 |
as a llss puller that pulls in the outlaw class i feel the correct decision was made. It clearly states in the rules no ice in intercooler over 360ci. theres 3 llss that run in that class. myself. the cockshut and the wanted tractor. the wanted tractor is perfectly legal because he run water injection. myself and the other tractor are alkys so we give up 300lbs to the diesels. doesnt matter what we are listed as we run by the rules. if they would like the rules changed become a member and propose a change. its no different than the different rules we have in every association for the same classes. yes ill sign it. I have pulled against these guys and there all nice people but if we dont have rules to follow what's the purpose. if those tractors finish in front of those members there taking away pts from the guys following the rules and hooking all the time in the class
shaun reed ironhorse. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,630 |
Shaun,
Great post, I agree with you 100%. Follow the rules. My problem is with the stupid and inconsistent rules. There's no logic in making rules in either class that make it so a LLSS isn't legal in LSS. Make consistent rules that allow for upward mobility. This sport lacks logic with far too many decisions. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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L Ford
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that wanted tractor not have a cooler ? |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 01/02/2015 Posts: 75 |
The wanted is a 470 3x4 llss |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,630 |
This topic points out the complete absurdity... idiocy... stupidity... of the rule making process in this sport. A Limited Light Super Stock should ALWAYS be legal in a Light Super Stock class! You should ALWAYS be able to jump up to the next class. It's these types of inconsistencies in the rules that are just ridiculous. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Ihfan
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Wish they would drop the block matching rearend rule. Why isn't it just brand. Hard getting a red one that light. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,630 |
I watched Tom Urmson pull a 1468 in the 5500 Superstock class as a kid 40ish years ago. Surely with Carbon Fiber and Titanium and all the other advancement we've made it's easier now days. I'm by no means saying it's easy, but teams like Ulmers have proved that you can do it if you really want to... and with a diesel! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Dave Dann
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The only thing that was 1468 was the engine block and the 1468 model number logo. That was a really good start to the new trend to building a component tractor (with a light tractor [706] rearend).
Tom's tractor was actually originally Ted Dibble's "Itty Bitty Binder", I believe. That or the 2nd one Ted built for his good friend, George? I forgot his last name. Maybe Lampass? Back in probably the late '80's, I did "the PULLER" magazine story about Dibble and "Itty Bitty Binder" when he was still dairy farming in NY. And ihfan, it is not hard getting a 460 light and even lighter yet. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Ihfan
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Dave can't run a 460 with a 400 series. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 72 |
He was probably making 600 HP, it's a little different putting a cast iron tractor at 6k with 2000+ HP. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,807 |
There is nothing stopping a person from signing up in the OSS with a LLSS if they meet all the rules for the class. There are several 4.1 that jump into 5.0 PS class. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
Dick, again, I am not saying anytime someone jumps up a class that is a bad thing, but is it a positive thing and should it always be allowed? If a tractor jumps up to a class and is 100' back, does that put on a good show for the crowd? And then go the flip side of this using your example of a 4.1 jumping up with the 5.0 Pros. If a tractor jumps up a class and is competitive, why are there 2 different classes. Again, I am not saying I completely disagree. If I owned one of the top 4.1's in the country, I would love to see how it runs against some 5.0's. I get it. Honest question, if you were hosting a major event and 5-6 Hot Farm guys said they wanted to come run with the Pro's, would you let them. Or would you put the quality of the show first? |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,674 |
Aside from what the rulebook says, what is "major?" The 4.1/5.0 may be an issue in Illinois where there are decent numbers of both. In R2, there have been 3-5 5.0s and barely more 4.1s. If there are fewer than 10 between the 2, then no, it should not be an issue (if allowed by the rulebook). A competent announcer that knows the tractors could educate the crowd that this puller normally runs a smaller turbo class but wants to jump up and see how he compares. I've heard exactly that message for both truck and tractor classes over the years. I'd submit a show of 8-10 tractors where some run behind others is better than a show of only 3-5 tractors that only takes 15 mimutes to complete without artificially dragging it out. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2025 06:54AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
To Original Michael, I don't disagree with what you are saying. I would rather have a combined class of 8-9, 4.1's and 5.0's run together, than 2 separate classes with 4 or 5 in the class. But the idea of a puller thinking they can always jump up a class, I disagree. When it works out, it is fine. But for a puller to assume that they should be allowed in a class that is not what you have, no. Go ahead and ask, if they tell you no, that's there choice. And there is a local club that has a combo class that runs, limited pros, pros, LSS, OSS, and mods together. But that is what they need to do to get a good class. It can work. I just don't think anyone should feel that they deserve to or should be allowed to run in a class other than what there vehicle was built for. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,807 |
Short of asking for their dyno sheets how are do you plan on regulating it? There are national classes t hat have the winning distance that is sometimes more yhat 150' from the last place vehicle. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
Dick, there isn't a perfect answer. And yes, we will always have some classes where there is a big difference between 1st and last. How about this for an example? RJ Simons had his big pull this summer. 50 ProStocks there. If you were doing the same thing. Someone with a 4.1 says Ithey're going to throw on a bigger charger and come play, They'll pay the money. Do you let them run knowing you will probably get 50 true Pro's to sign up? Along with that, if you had a million dollar Pro and signed up, would you want them to let in anything other than a Pro? |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Dave Dann
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LivinOrange, what makes you believe that was only 600 HP? With you living in central MO, you likely never saw the tractor on the track. That IH DV 550 diesel V8 was converted to turboed alcohol by a well known successful NY car racing engine shop (Marollo). Itty Bitty Binder caught a few pullers attention and they also got one, such as George Lampass, Tom Urmson and DeLynn Kale. They eventually learned as the HP wars continued, that the block was not capable of mega HP. They were definitely unique in the 5 and 7. if not for the lightened 706 rear, you would have called it a component tractor. Long before a 'true component' tractor tractor was allowed in the real tractor classes. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
Jake, I am going to have to disagree a bit with you on this. I do not feel it should always be that you can jump up into another class. Your example a LLSS jumping up into the LSS class. I was told one time, "You build for the class you want to run". So you don't expect a different class to change their rules to accommodate you. Yes, I will say there are some exceptions to this. But at the end of the day, if the rules don't fit your tractor, you can't run. Another side to this is, would it help the show. Would letting a lower horsepower tractor jump up into the class help the show? It's one more pass in the class with a tractor that probably will not be competitive. Does this produce a better show? Take this to the extreme. What if a 466 HotFarm tractor wants to put on bigger tires and run in the ProStock class, do you let him? Yes, that is an extreme example. But it is why we have rules. If the tractor does not fit the rules, and they don't want to make an exception to let them run, it is what it is. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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pullinfan
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while you make a point, I feel the need to point out that there are 3 LLSS tractors in the top10 in points in outlaw LSS AG so as for "not competitive" I'd say that's not always the case. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,674 |
I can name a few SS pullers that regularly get beat by light and limited pros. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
pullinfan, I did not say that you should never be allowed to jump up and run. I am just saying I understand if someone is not allowed to run. As for 3 LLSS being in the top 10 for Outlaw points. I had to look at the current points. There is really only 6 tractors in the points race. If you made every event and bumped the sled, you would currently sit 7th in points. All of this is according to what is on the Outlaw's website. Everyone keeps acting like I feel it should never be done. I am good with it. I just don't think it should be expected or assumed it can be done. I also don't feel it is rude if a promoter says no. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 814 |
Do they all weigh the same? |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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pullinfan
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Diesels weigh 6300, alky weighs 6000 doesn't matter if you are a llss at 370 cubes, 504 with 4 turbos, or 640 with a 5" turbo fuel is the only thing that determines weight. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Was There Ish
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Not sure why they just didn't let the 2 Iowa LLSS tractors run with the class as exhibition hooks, also not sure how non-members would steal points? Nothing like a real world experiment to see how a 410 w/ a cooler stacks up against the ag LSS tractors, especially when the show is already light on hooks..
2 tracks and 65-70 hooks each day in 2.5 hours is kinda sad for the ISF. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 554 |
The NTPA rule book says you can only jump one class (I believe without looking it up). So, the extreme examples of Hot Farm jumping to Pro is a non issue at least in NTPA. If a vehicle meets the rules for the intended class, whether it is underpowered or not should not be a determining factor just because you built to a specific class. Now if the promoter or an organization says "no" unequivocally, then it is a moot point. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 112 |
Bandit496, I do not know how the NTPA rule book has it. Does it list the class that you can jump into? Otherwise, my extreme example still works. A HotFarm would fit in the rules of a Pro. Please understand, I do not ever see something like a HotFarm jumping into the Pro class. All I am saying is that I can understand why someone wouldn't be allowed to run in a class that their tractor was not intended for. |
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Re: Iowa state fair AgLSS
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lewis c
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I loved pulling my modified stock Cockshutt in the 5500 pound SS class back in the day until they decided it was making the class look bad always takeing some extra cash home |
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