06:46:37am, Wednesday, April 15, 2026
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Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,804 |
How many would retire or change classes? Would any new blood join a class where it was allowed?
If EFI was legal, which tractor classes? Should it be GN only or across the board? The tech is there with a potential to save parts. |
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The Truth about EFI
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Washed up puller
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I think it's one of pulling's biggest travesties. EFI/ Electronically controlled systems should be allowed in all classes across the board.
Reason 1. Parts saving and safety. Programable fail safes can be implemented to save parts and prevent catastrophic failure. Reason 2. More reliable/ more efficient horsepower Reason 3. More tuneability Reason 4. More creativity with tune up's Reason 5. Introduction of younger blood/ opportunity for start up manufactures Reason 6. Cost savings in the long run Reason 7. Finding out what the engine truly wants. If I had the funding, I have no doubt I would dyno with EFI and other electronically controlled systems to find out what the engine truly wants and try my best to duplicate it in a "manual fashion" due to the current state of the backwoods rules. At the end of the day, not allowing progression and creativity only promotes regression. This rule will not change due to the stakeholders ability to resist change and the obsolescence of current parts. Nobody likes change or the thought of throwing away/ shelfing good mechanical parts. However we are shooting ourselves in the foot every year we turn away from it. We all know it's better but we all choose to turn a blind eye to it. |
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Re: The Truth about EFI
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,935 |
I agree, as I wrote about this very topic last year there has been no movement by the national organizations. Unfortunately pulling is very slow (not at all) to embrace new technology. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: The Truth about EFI
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EFI supporter
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https://fullpullproductions.com/breaking-new-ground-running-efi-on-an-alcohol-pulling-tractor-for-the-first-time/]EFI in Pulling[/url] |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Under_Pressure
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With the talk about saving the SS class lately, legalizing electronic controls across the board for them would be a good step. Yes I know some organizations have allowed it (for alky tractors at least) and it hasn't exactly resulted in dozens of tractors showing up or eliminated breakage, but there is so much uncertainty around the class lately and limited participation that it's going to take some time to pay off. I think maybe making SS more explicitly the "high tech" class would help give it some identity again and give it a clearer place in the pulling world. In terms of tuning, they are walking a tightrope more than any other pulling vehicle and could really benefit from the precision control and ease of adjustment.
For diesels, I'm not sure what electronic systems are available to deliver the kind of fuel they need, but even electronically controlled water injection would seem like it could be a big benefit. Monitor temperatures and adjust water accordingly in real time. We shouldn't keep saying that breakage and missed tuneups resulting in unimpressive runs are such a big problem in a class that struggles with numbers without giving them every tool available to address those problems. |
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Who would make the proposal?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,804 |
Has an NTPA member made a proposal ever regarding EFI? |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Posts: 381 |
"For diesels, I'm not sure what electronic systems are available to deliver the kind of fuel they need"
If anyone has ever listened to the episode of the No Practice Podcast that featured Ryan DeBroux, you here him tell how EFI & diesel is an extremely unique animal that is not understood by really anyone when you arrive at the level he's at. Basically they are inventing things as they go - trial and error. He stated that some of the variables they have are insane when compared with a "normal" EFI application. Basically he is a R&D experiment on a nonstop basis. But it does show promise. I'm sure the lower HP/lower fuel requirement applications in diesel could be adequately mastered. Making a current national level Pro Stock run on a diesel EFI system is going to take a serious budget to pioneer I would think.....but who knows what people are working on in secret? "......but even electronically controlled water injection would seem like it could be a big benefit. Monitor temperatures and adjust water accordingly in real time" This could prove invaluable!! |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Posts: 114 |
This is already going on with emergency water valves when cylinder temps hit a certain point |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 02/20/2017 Posts: 53 |
There’s a lot of big name diesel tuners/builders in the truck world that have already said they can never achieve the fuel quality and injection rate of a billet pump on the high horse power stuff. It will defiantly work for the lower hp classes as it’s already been proven in the truck classes. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 573 |
Every year for at least five years (and not only my own recommendation, but on the request of numerous competitors and builders). |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Posts: 530 |
It should have been allowed ever since it was available on production cars/trucks/tractors.
EFI has a huge aftermarket in the drag/street scene, many of those may crossover onto the pulling track if given the chance, especially if there are new customers to be had. I think the turbo 2wd mod trucks would benefit greatly if it is allowed, heck, it might even bring in some new engine combinations. --- 
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 141 |
The TWD Truck class is thriving. It has really Too many now. Its a great class with uniform rules 14/71 Blown engines, Why does it need change? I bet if you let the Puller that run the class now vote, it would be dramatically leave it alone!
BB |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Lol
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The net result would be a change in the money flow in the sport. The powers that be saw that coming very early and just blanket outlawed it. If guys can figure out how to get more with less then they won't have to buy that top of the line pump and charger twice a year. The only thing keeping newer technology out of the motorsport are the guys that are already making the money from selling the old technology. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Posts: 163 |
All the things said above may be true, but to answer the question of what would the net result be? The net result would be the pullers already on top spending the same (or more) money to be on top. We will all still go the same distance and the show will look no different. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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SS
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That's a common sense answer right there! |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,260 |
What EFI did in Europe, was to make other engine combinations than blower V8s competitive with Hemis.
A lot of younger folks started to work on modified tractor projects, they probably would not have touched on MFI, simply because if you can't buy a mechanical system especially made for your engine set up, it's a real pain in the butt and takes a lof ot time to get it to work, unless you pay somebody, who knows the system, to set it up. With EFI, you can basically get anything to work yourself. Of course it takes time and is a bit "trial and error" until it all works and your problems are of a different nature than on a mechanical system (sensors, power supply, interferences...) but on a "non blower" engine it's easier to punch in some numbers than grind cam profiles, tinker with spring pressures and sensor pills. As for saving engines: I disagree with Dalton here for the following reason: If you get cylinder pressure logging to work in combination with variable timing, it's relatively easy to avoid peak pressures and run the engines safely close to the limit without kicking stuff out. Since the Green Monster Team is on EFI (must be over a decade now) I can really only recall one EFI engine kicking rods out - and that was due a prototype rod bearing. Having 7 Allisons going all season and watching how their competitors on Allisons still kill an engine here and there, running out of their stocks... They still sized engines, torched heads and had and have their share of electrical issues - but catastrophic failures have really become rare. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2025 10:28AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Well
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What will EFI fix?
Electronics give more trouble than mechanical parts. Telling me that EFI will save my engine is a lie. Things happen to EFI just like mechanical engines. Only thing EFI will change is paying a tuner a lot of money to tune your setup. Like said the end result is still the same pulling 300-350 feet on a dirt track dragging a sled. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Carlsson
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Sounds that it is necessary to get EFI tuned by a third party. Whatta dumb assumption. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Well
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It is not necessary to have someone tune EFI. Although it s an advantage to the people that do pay someone to tune the setup.
EFI will kill pulling if allowed. Stevie Fast Jackson said the smart thing to do is keep all electronics out. All it will do is cost people a lot of money to get the same results we have now with a lot less competitor's. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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.
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Sounds eerily like you just described a pump shop…. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 434 |
This sounds like the Cracker Barrel argument. If ain’t broke, why is everyone trying to fix it? |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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DoubleOvertime
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What will EFI break? Electronics do have issues from time to time but it’s not like there isn’t problems with points boxes/mags/fuel system etc. In 5 years of running my twin engine mod with EFI I have had 2 bad $70 sensors that caused a problem. I do agree that there is more complexity and more things with the possibility to break. In a close points race 1 scratch because of a computer problem would be the difference in winning the championship for the season. You are correct EFI will not save every engine failure. My experience was by the time my EGTs got too hot it was too late for the computer to save it. If you lose oil pressure and the computer shuts the engine off you still smoked the bearings. The computer can only save it if you have it programmed to save it in that situation. After the 1st false safety trip when nothing is wrong that safety gets disabled until you are only left with maybe a low oil pressure safety. Thats my experience anyways. Starting from scratch with no experience in MFI you will need to pay a tuner to setup your MFI, for probably a lot more $$$ and time than it takes to get an EFI setup to the track the first time. There is a steep learning curve with EFI though and most of the EFI “tuners” come from a drag racing background and don’t understand how much harder we are on engines. I broke a lot of parts along the way to getting my setup tuned in, and in the end I did it myself. A well tuned MFI engine will make just as much or more peak power than EFI. Especially on a blower motor. Starting from nothing I don’t think the EFI is any more expensive than an MFI setup + datalogger. We use the same fuel pump, my EFI controller is my datalogger, and the MFI datalogger will have all the critical sensors the EFI system needs. Going from MFI to EFI will obviously be just like starting over from scratch. For me, starting from nothing on a turbocharged alky setup, and with more experience in electronic controls systems (I work on industrial controls for a living) EFI was a no-brainer. I think MFI could do it but I would have struggled more, broke just as much or more parts, and spent more money. Europe has allowed EFI for a long time and it doesn’t look like that killed pulling over there…….. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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What I Saw
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You sure had Double Overtime running great at the Iowa State Fair. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 07/30/2016 Posts: 20 |
The other question is would they ever allow it in the NTPA as long as Enderle is a sponsor? But that being said there isn't much Enderle equipment being ran on the top classes anymore anyway. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,260 |
Too slow computer and sensors  Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Flawed logic
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,804 |
This isn't solely directed to the person who suggested this on this thread because others have posted the same thing over the years.
One of the silliest arguments against doing anything is "the pullers will still go the same distance." That same thought process could be applied to any sport. NHRA Pro Mods "They still race a quarter mile", NASCAR " Daytona is still 2.5 miles", or stick and ball sports if there is a rule change: NBA "The court is still 94 feet" or NFL "The field is still 100 yards." You could make the same argument within pulling. "Why did Bauer build a new sled with a pan 1 foot longer? They're not going to let them pull any further than last year." "Why allow pro stocks to run intercoolers? The track length isn't changing." "Why did they allow multiple engines, or more than one turbocharger, or blown minis? They aren't pulling any further." Meaning, there are pros and cons to be discussed with any proposal, but to not be open to a rule because it's still the same track length is a flawed concept imo. Besides, with a 350' or longer track, the track length actually has expanded in the post-Covid years, which undrrcuts that whole line of reasoning. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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Posts: 163 |
My post did not say anything pro or con about EFI or make any argument for or against it. I just simply answered YOUR question. The NET result of EFI is nothing will look different to the fan, the winners are still going to win, and the sport will not be any less expensive. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2025 03:50AM by ppmengineering. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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This!
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Pullers will still spend more and more. The fans will see 350 passes and not know or care that EFI is on the machine. They simply want to be entertained between sips of beer.
Since it is always the pullers that can't win or keep their stuff running. Why don't we just have an EFI class, and spilt all the classes up? That way those that want it can run it without any pushback. Problem solved. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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yep
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"This!", your "Problem solved" = Such a great novel idea - we really do need more classes! And more participation trophies and ribbons. And make it mandatory they have pull offs. The vendors should be happy selling more food and beer. Wow, what a win-win |
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Re: Flawed logic
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That
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Ask NTPA and they will be all for the idea. It's not about the quality of the show, it's the number of memberships that can be generated. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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Carlsson
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Beside all this forth and back about costs for people who like to convert or feel to be forced to convert, from MFI to EFI, one thing is obviously missing. For some engine combos, the permission for EFI is literally the entry ticket. you won't will see that level of variety in EU pulling without allowing EFI. many of these incredible machines are only around and sometimes are still kinda competitive because the are allowed to run EFI.
but well, if somebody likes a boring class of 95% cookie cutter blown hemi crap, feel free to stay stuck in that mud. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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And the other thing
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All we ever hear on this board is how allowing EFI, allowing smaller turbos, or different blowers, and tire sizes... How it will magically create new pullers...
Allow EFI and tractor pulling still has a huge issue of it being expensive with zero ROI. Not many in their 20s, 30s, 40s can afford to get into this sport.. So I'm not sure where you all think the new pullers or engine combos are going to come from. You can claim cookie cutter all that you want, but each of these tractors are very unique in their own way if you actually look at things. That said, I am not gonna bash anyone overseas as they have nice stuff too. But many lack a lot of the funding to afford hemi motors, and they make do with what they have. So you get these wild engine combos. And they still pull for peanuts over there, so they are probably doing things right and not over-spending. The mod with tank motors and the single hemi, now that was entertainment and no EFI. We just need more pullers here willing to build one-off machines. Yet you all need to consider that this is very expensive hobby and not a living. Most pullers want to build a tractor that goes down the track and they can have fun. The days of constantly wrenching when one should be working is starting to catch up to most pullers in 2025. |
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Re: Flawed logic
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,260 |
What makes you think this? The "business model" here is not "prize money" but sponsorships. Hence - the money you make as a team is much more dependent on people in the stands and media coverage than prize money. At the lower ranks, where prize money here maybe looks dull (e.g. 500 for first in a "national" round - think state level US), you have to consider, we receive 1.60$ per mile just to be there, granted with fuel costs being twice as high as in the US - but that money has to be earned by the events, too. As for "new" pullers: You rarely get them at the top level and I think hoping for people deciding to spend a million + to compete in Tractor Pulling out of thin air is not a very sustainable plan for the sport. We here have copied a lot of what you do right in the USA, that has grown your sport to what it is. Classes where you just can't really outspend the competition / don't need 100k to start and put them where they belong: Regional. Biggest mistake ever, in my opinion, is to put classes, that are planned as "budget", at the top level. Why should you get to run at the top events, if you've built for "budget"? There are plenty of examples of this, where top teams just "scaled down", after the budget class was introduced to the top level and hammer on the "new guys". Kills the top classes because of low numbers and scares away newbies. And every 5 years you hear the "We need a new class, I can't win anymore" line at the winter meetings. What it takes to get "new" people, is a PERSPECTIVE for them: The "well, I think I can do this, too" moment in the grandstand (an that's were EFI comes in, because it enables other engines combinations to be competetive) And the "I want to do this, because it looks like a fun thing to do on the weekend" I think this covered pretty well in the US The problem comes, when you want to make them move up a class. They need reasons to move up. Those could be: Better tracks, more prefessional handling of everything at the pull, more spectators (= better sponsorship opportunities), better competition Put the "budget class" at the top level - and it goes against all these things and after a very short time, it is not budget anymore. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2025 08:35AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Whar would be net result if EFI were legalized?
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 837 |
As far as I'm concerned as a state puller it could be allowed across the board. But my question is how many new people would that bring into the sport? |
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