When is it time? April 08, 2020 02:26AM
When is time to cancel the 2020 national pulling? Is it now, the first of May or not at all? I can see all sides of the discussion, does the national organizations run a partial schedule as a point s race or does each pull stand alone? If pulling resumes will enough fans show up to make it profitable for the promoters? Will enough pullers show up to give the fans a quality show? Every day we read that the virus is getting under control, yet a lot of our medical experts are telling us that we will still need to do "social distancing" for anywhere from 6 to 18 months. The fear is just because the virus is on the down swing without social distancing it will return again. We are also being told that it will hit rural America later in the spring, early summer. With this hanging over our heads will fans want to flock back to pulls. Do farmers and business owners need time to bring their businesses back to a healthy state. Will country fairs want to host pulling this summer? Will promoters want to take a chance on half filled stands and red ink covering the bottom line? Are half filled stands worse for the sport than a 1 year pause? What if half of the promoters tell their respective national organizations that they need a year to regroup? I realize that no one wants to see the 2020 pulling season cancelled, however whats best for the pullers, fans and promoters?


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 03:08AM
I know it's being discussed by the big orgs. Even if it gets better now the problem we may have is continued limitations on large gatherings due to a fear the virus could flare back up in the fall similar to the flu. Time will tell. I think right now our best case scenario would be getting the season going by the first of July and I'm not sure how realistic that is.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 03:09AM
I believe that perspective and an open mind works best in all situations, if we were going to drive to Florida in Jan. or Feb. and an ice storm occurred in Ky.- Tn. we usually don't try and drive thru it,but wait, change plans and alter the trip, same here, we all still go the stores to buy whatever we need, still go get take out food, Life is not over, just redirected at this time, later it might be very good to have some smaller get togethers, no one rides with the puller, no one is in the sled cab, we can still drive,park and share responsibly????? Summer picnics will happen, just not so many in one group, people were out walking like crazy yesterday, 73 degrees in the upper midwest.Life is not stagnant or over, just a few adjustments, pulling can be the same, half full stands means more space to be SOCIAL DISTANT". People need things to look forward to, emotionally good for all. Or the alternative is wait till next spring. Pulling certainly is not essential, however keeping sane and making good choices is.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 04:19AM
Half full stands means half of the paying fans stayed home. I am sure that will not thrill any promoter.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 08:41AM
Half full stands can mean disaster for promoters and really cause some Events to cease to exist. many unknowns, personally I feel some of the early ones to open will have a flood of attendance, the question is ...Pullers how many can afford to go now, it has impacted our Team and plans for sure. Lots of unknowns here but I believe in what we do, open the gates they will come!
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 04:13AM
I'd say that it would be best to wait until early May and see how things are at that time....Some state associations have already lost some of their May and June pulls... Its probably because of the of loss of sponsors and the possibility of poor crowds..
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Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 04:40AM
It would be great if pulling could happen in 2020. However, if the plug gets pulled, there is an opportunity for NTPA to exercise leadership.... if they have the foresight and courage to do so. All those things that have been suggested could/should happen, well, they could take the extended offseason and implement those for 2021.

For example, reworking their GN classes. With all the single charger classes, for example, there could be some combining. Super Farm is dying. It's strong in Michigan and there are still a number of the R3 area, but one would have to be blind to not see both Light and Limited Pro have grown tremendously. While I've suggested Light Pros should be a GN class, there are several orgs that have combined Light and Limited Pro successfully. That being the case, for example, Super Farm could be withdrawn as a GN class and replaced with a Light/Limited Pro class, with both combos being legal using rules from OSTPA or Indiana Pulling League. There have been several idiots that have called the class "Stupid Farm" or other denigrating names.... I feel it's been a good class but looking forward, that class is only going to continue to shrink going forward, though it may be viable as a Regional class in R3 and R2( which for SF is mostly Michigan).

Perfect opportunity to unify the Heavy SS classes with plenty of lead time going into 2021.

There is no real point to the state organizations any more. For example, most of the HSTPA and Wolverine pulls are co-sanctioned with each other and are Region 2 anyway. Perhaps instead of state orgs, NTPA could consider reinventing on a Regional model. Frankly, there are very few of any one class in any one state to have a stand-alone State event that doesn't draw out of state vehicles, with exceptions for North Carolina (500 miles from the nearest other current NTPA Member State) and Wisconsin/Minnesota, but even those states usually draw vehicles from each other.

Modified classes- Will Light Unlimited survive? Guys have already spent money on screw blowers in that class, but if there are only 5 of them, there's no point in offering the class. The 7500 GN Mod class, I'd leave it alone. There were 17 entered in BG last year. Thus far, there is enough support for the class. Heavy unlimiteds, imho, should be left alone. With the number of screw and 18-71s already in the class, leave it be.

There may be safety or competition rules that could be discussed and explored. My main point, with the increasing odds the season won't happen, this is a perfect time to take a long, hard look at the organization as a whole and perhaps do those things they've been unwilling to do..... if the leadership and board(s) have foresight and courage.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2020 04:42AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 05:31AM
"IS THE GLASS HALF FULL, -- OR HALF EMPTY ? "
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When is it time? April 08, 2020 05:35AM
I realize that's a cute saying, however what's the difference. It's still only half the fans buying a ticket.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2020 05:36AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 06:55AM
Okay, here you go...Champion Grand National Tour...TWD, FWD, DFWD, PS, UNL, Mini, HSS (open) limited to 10 vehicles(under contract) per class (like a CT or precommit). Events are only on two day weekends, two tracks, each class hooks twice per show (once on each track), combine distance for "winner" each night. Either every weekend or every other weekend through the pulling season (12-16 events). Of course, pay is commensurate. All other classes or variety of classes are region/series/state events and can be held anytime. Tell me why it wouldn't work? JW
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 07:04AM
It won’t work because a big NTPA event like Chapel Hill or Brandenburg or Langford have one track
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 07:16AM
The realist in me wants to say that half is better than none, but maybe not, but I was taught in classes, school, counselling and real Life that the only thing where all or nothing counts is Life and Death situations.And I am pretty sure this lack of pulling is not the death of anything except some of our weekend activities, pulling will survive, people for the most part will survive and pulls and venues have been disappearing any way, so now more will be gone. The world is constantly changing, in many ways too slow to realize, some in ways that are not recognized.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 07:12AM
Quote
bandit496
Okay, here you go...Champion Grand National Tour...TWD, FWD, DFWD, PS, UNL, Mini, HSS (open) limited to 10 vehicles(under contract) per class (like a CT or precommit). Events are only on two day weekends, two tracks, each class hooks twice per show (once on each track), combine distance for "winner" each night. Either every weekend or every other weekend through the pulling season (12-16 events). Of course, pay is commensurate. All other classes or variety of classes are region/series/state events and can be held anytime. Tell me why it wouldn't work? JW

There is something there that could work. It would be somewhat like NHRA where every race (until 2018) had TF/FC/ and PS. If the classes were offered at each event, that would lend consistency. I may add a Light/Limited Pro class (change the name to something else, though). That would make for an even 4 classes per track per event. If Semis could ever get a consistent following, that would also be a great thing for this.

I understand the vehicle max limit, but for an outdoor event, I'm not a fan. Putting on my fan hat, one of the appealing things about going to a GN pull is the opportunity of seeing larger classes, though there is a way the entry limit may or may not apply depending on the level of the event (maybe having the best of both worlds):

Perhaps a vehicle entry max/quota not apply to multi-track Super National events. ie- I think BG, Tomah, and any other promoter who is willing and has pit space should not limit the entries. Also, Tomah and BG are 5 session events. For "regular" GN events, maybe 12 instead of 10 (if they can run 4 classes of 12 at Louisville where the pullers have to be towed on and off the track, surely they could do the same quicker at an outdoor event). Or, maybe 10 but the promoter has an option to add up to 2 or 3 or whatever, but all places are paid.

I feel Bandit496's idea could work well for a "regular" GN Friday/Saturday event like Hutchinson or even Ft Recovery, but for a whole weekend like Tomah or BG, with a Super National purse, maybe the entry limit would not apply. If other events like Rockwell decide to become Super National events and have adequate pit space, maybe they could be all-run also. Overall, Mr. Webb's idea is worthy of discussion.

PS - for the guy who mentioned single track events, perhaps if NTPA could get the schedule worked out, 1/2 of the classes could hook at one place, and the other 1/2 at another single-track place the same weekend.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2020 07:15AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 01:01PM
If you can't have two tracks, you can't have this type of event. It was asked for new ideas, so old standbys would be not get any preference. I was thinking only of Friday/Saturday shows, not three and four day events. Remember, this is the "best of the best". You won't see one of these competitors at your county fair or even a region event, just as you won't see a region/state vehicle at the "super show". But, understand, with today's level of competition, a particular team's "toughness" is dictated by what license he/she decides to buy--there are many teams that are more than capable to be very competitive at the GN-CT level who decide to not buy that license and get a series/region license. I would like to see one more smoke/tractor class to go along with the seven and was contemplating a light pro type class. For a class of ten, you would have 140 vehicles going down the track. At twelve per class, that would be 168 passes. Crew chiefs/drivers would have to be "smart" in order to make those two hooks per night/four per weekend. We aren't talking Saturday night drag races, we are talking national caliber competition. JW
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To many truck classes April 08, 2020 02:14PM
To many truck classes in that scenario JW
LSS back at 6000
SS Both fuels 8000 decube to 540
Mods - adopt PPL rules do away with unlimited
Mini
TWD
DSS FWD
PS - decubed to 540 and 8000lbs
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 07:39AM
The Original Michael........... I have to disagree with you about sf being a dying..... I believe numbers are down with NTPA because of payouts not lack of tractors. PPL had 17 on Champions tour last year. NTPA needs to get moneys up or they will be a thing of the past in less than 5 years. its strong in midsouth organisation and in badger state organisation along with new york pullers.... all the ppl rules sf have great numbers...
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 08:09AM
Quote
new build
The Original Michael........... I have to disagree with you about sf being a dying..... I believe numbers are down with NTPA because of payouts not lack of tractors. PPL had 17 on Champions tour last year. NTPA needs to get moneys up or they will be a thing of the past in less than 5 years. its strong in midsouth organisation and in badger state organisation along with new york pullers.... all the ppl rules sf have great numbers...

What do Mid-South, New York, and Badger State have in common? Those are all PPL Member states. I'm talking about what NTPA could/should do. I doubt there is a groundswell within NTPA to adopt PPL Super Farm rules, or it would have already happened years ago.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 09:05AM
Dick -
I think you're being overly pessimistic about the 2020 season.

I think, and this is my opinion only, that 2/3rds of the season can go on with a set of conditions.

First and foremost individual states will have to lift their bans on mass gatherings and that's likely to happen with outdoor settings before it will for indoor situations. This may be complicated by local ordinances that have stiffer limits. For the record we're at week 6-7 of this deal that has been suggested to have a 12-week curve, and the data is suggesting that this week and into next week may be peak numbers across the country. That puts us at Memorial Day/First week of June when things get settled down and barriers begin to be lifted, and most pulling occurs from mid-June to the end of August. I also believe that this is a state-by-state issue because what's needed in New York (especially NYC) wouldn't be needed in more rural states.

Additionally we need to acknowledge that things will never be the same, and we ought to operate with knowledge rather than fear or apprehension. Things that seemed out of the ordinary or possibly unreasonable might be a new norm.

Here's what we do know: COVID-19 strikes the elderly and those with a certain group of pre-existing conditions. That does not mean that the young and healthy cannot fall prey to it. The effort to encourage social distancing, better hygiene, and now the recommendation of face masks has been working, as data from influenza testing here in Kentucky noted that we went from 1500 cases reported on 2/29 to less than 500 the week of 3/28, with a dramatic drop shown from 3/21 to 3/28. Kentuckians for the most part are practicing what has been preached and the effort shows. I share that influenza data because both diseases are passed in a similar manner and influenza testing is immediate with more reported data. Flu season technically does not end until late April/early May. I also don't share that to pat us as a state on the back but with facts I have close at hand. Your results -- and state -- may vary from that.

Knowing those things I have some thoughts: I see no problem with any outdoor activity as long as people practice this new "normal." I am especially willing to do this because I personally have three strikes against me health-wise - obesity, hypertension, t2 Diabetes. A lot of people fall under that umbrella. To ensure my personal health and that I don't pass anything along to anyone else, I am more than happy to wear a mask at a pull, wear gloves, and wave at people rather than shake hands or hug as we do with some friends. By doing those things I have no fear for my health. Acting with caution? yes; fear, no. From the promotion side I see opportunity to be proactive and incentivize good behavior, for example installing more hand sanitizing stations, more porta-johns, and even offering ticket discounts to those who wear masks in particular. Those actions also decrease the liability of the promoter. Drinking a beer with a mask? Figure that out for yourselves.

These are just a few thoughts and ideas. I have some more but I haven't fleshed them out to share yet. Our country in the end needs to get back to work and get back to enjoying ourselves too. We are learning more about this virus every day and what's working and what isn't. Countries like Sweden and New Zealand from my reading offer that they're doing an excellent job at slowing the disease down, much better than we are. I have also gone from "wash your hands, cover your mouth, this is BS" to "wipe my groceries down with lysol wet wipes before they come in the house" and everywhere in between. The truth lies somewhere in between.

Before I finally shut up, THANK YOU to every Farmer, Rancher, Trucker, First Responder/Medical Person/Police and everyone still working in Retail and manufacturing keeping us in toilet paper and other goods.

Be safe and well folks.


Bryan Lively -

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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 08, 2020 02:03PM
Any assumptions about resuming the seasons are based on the fact that we don’t see a second wave. Unfortunately, it’s what we’re starting to see. It’s also what happened in 1918. The first to die were the sick and poor then came a second wave that hit those better off.
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1918 flu pandemic April 10, 2020 01:26AM
Quote
Mike P
Any assumptions about resuming the seasons are based on the fact that we don’t see a second wave. Unfortunately, it’s what we’re starting to see. It’s also what happened in 1918. The first to die were the sick and poor then came a second wave that hit those better off.

[www.cdc.gov]
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 10, 2020 02:40AM
while being an optimist is a good thing,, have to look at reality? every law or decree in regards to this virus has "legal" written all over it! while yes your state infection rate is going down, wait till you have large gatherings again? My fair pull will have people packed into the beer gardens like sardines, stands packed, lineups at food vendors?,etc,etc.more shitters cost money too, if I have 4000 people in attendance ? even if only 10% get infected? thats still 400 persons taking something home to their families? present mortality rate is at 3.9% so min. 16 of those could die? now my fair board could be looking at a bunch of hungry PI lawyers serving lawsuits? because we should have known and our event is where they may have been infected?...these scenarios are what will more likely finally decide if the event is a go or not? extremely frustrating here because no government wants to offer any hints as to how long they want to leave restrictions in place? little difference then having rain predicted on pull day and you have to decide? do we call it early or wait till start time? plenty pissed people questioning your decisions?
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 10, 2020 05:57AM
If the gov cuts us loose June 1st,how many would go to bg 70 days away would you take the chance without a vaccine ? I'd like to think I would go,but in the real world it would be a very tough decision to make,without a vaccine you can be positive the virus will be there in possibly thousands of people,in the close quarters of bleachers,and campground,I'd bet 50 percent come home with it....what say you ??
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When is it Time? April 10, 2020 01:23AM
We really can't start talking Tractor Pulling until the CDC relaxes their social distancing guidelines. Then the state Govenor's have to relax their state social distancing and gathering requirements as well. As many have stated in addition to that you have to figure the financial factor into the whole equation. Sponsors are bound to be down for the events. Crowds could be down as some may not have the money or will be working to make up for the financial losses.The farm economy isn't going to be great at the time we return as well. Another thing to consider and we may not see it at the Pulling level, but some people are just not going to rush out and go to a large social event until they know they are safe to do so. The decision to cancel all season will likely have to come from the direction of the sanctioning bodies of Pulling. The NTPA, OUTLAWS, and PPL will have to make that call several weeks before, we know when we will be able to return to normal by the local Governments. It will be hard to have an event with social distancing being limited to 6' and no crowds larger then 10 people as we have in place right now. According to Governors across most states in the Midwest they don't expect the peak in their states until May with some as late as June. How are you going to have a pull in June in lets say a state that hasn't been hit hard, but could have pullers traveling from a state that still has hot spots or is in lock down and dealing with the outbreak? Your event in your state maybe right next door and open, but how can you insure that the virus wont potentially spread? You can't tell that puller "NO" he cant come, if he is a member and competing for points? That could be a huge mess for organizations. Furthermore, your going to have to have the ability to have social gatherings of 200 or more and from what I am hearing that isn't going to be allowed until July or August, if we are lucky. The president can want to get the economy up and running, but ultimately that decision will lie at your state level government and when the Governor of the state you live in decides its "OK" to begin to reopen. NTPA, OUTLAWS and PPL could clear the way to have pulls as long as we follow CDC guidelines, but if the state Governors don't allow more then 200 people to gather at an event, I don't see how we will be able to have Pulling anywhere in the country until that happens. Its a very complex situation that will have to have some deep thought and consideration taken. Ultimately, they will have to look at the whats in the best interest for the organization, the safety of their Pullers, their families, friends, fans, events and sponsors.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 10, 2020 12:59PM
Traveling the country behind the wheel of a truck, what I see is shocking. Mall & plaza parking lots empty. Business large & small closed. Signs up all over of events canceled. Toll workers not collecting tolls. Crowded freeways nearly empty. Masked workers afraid to touch money.The list goes on & on. A world I never thought I'd see in this country in this lifetime. All brought on in a few weeks. No one can even speculate what the world looks like when this ends, but I see no true end until there is both an effective treatment & a proven vaccine. I frankly can not see anyone being reckless enough to stage a tractor pull, legal liability wise, until those 2 things happen & the majority of states have lifted all these distancing & gathering rules. I think it hit home how big this was when NBA canceled the season. That's big money folks. Hopefully we are not in such an economic mess when the day comes that we can at least talk about things like fairs & pulling again. But I"ll tell you something else that had better be discussed & seriously. Where this came from. Why it got so out of hand ,& just how vulnerable are we willing to be as a nation to a huge communist country in order to have cheap toasters & other trinkets, because they ain't lookin so cheap right now . And those who warned us & were laughed at ,as old protectionist ,are looking a little smarter. But that's a discussion for another day.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 11, 2020 10:30AM
Quote
Unchartered
Traveling the country behind the wheel of a truck, what I see is shocking. Mall & plaza parking lots empty. Business large & small closed. Signs up all over of events canceled. Toll workers not collecting tolls. Crowded freeways nearly empty. Masked workers afraid to touch money.The list goes on & on. A world I never thought I'd see in this country in this lifetime. All brought on in a few weeks. No one can even speculate what the world looks like when this ends, but I see no true end until there is both an effective treatment & a proven vaccine. I frankly can not see anyone being reckless enough to stage a tractor pull, legal liability wise, until those 2 things happen & the majority of states have lifted all these distancing & gathering rules. I think it hit home how big this was when NBA canceled the season. That's big money folks. Hopefully we are not in such an economic mess when the day comes that we can at least talk about things like fairs & pulling again. But I"ll tell you something else that had better be discussed & seriously. Where this came from. Why it got so out of hand ,& just how vulnerable are we willing to be as a nation to a huge communist country in order to have cheap toasters & other trinkets, because they ain't lookin so cheap right now . And those who warned us & were laughed at ,as old protectionist ,are looking a little smarter. But that's a discussion for another day.
Very well stated!
We need to focus on where the virus came from. Focus on bringing back "Made in the USA" products for us to buy and use.

Let the politicians know that we want them to stop sending money to foreign countries and take care of America 1st. We are not the worlds police / bank. We have enough problems of our own. Massive food bank lines in CA this week. FL dairies having to dump milk on the ground because they can't sell it.

We are struggling to get rubbing alcohol, toilet paper, and dust masks to everyone.
Politicians are blocking stimulus/relief money trying to put in their Green New Deal and other BS in the middle of a crisis. Sad situation.
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 11, 2020 11:56AM
I agree totally with " uncharted & Kevinh", --- you know this Virus blindsided us, nobody saw it coming --- makes a person wonder what else is out there that could blindside us at anytime-- its something that needs to be thought about !!!
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Re: Opportunity for NTPA (if they have vision and courage to seize it) April 12, 2020 01:38AM
I love comment super farm is dying still biggest numbers at national pulls for tractor classes you think they are giving up 50 plus hook fees
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 07:44AM
If the lite/limited pro classes are growing so fast, why do they need to be combined? Still alot of competitive SF out there.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 07:56AM
He's saying combine them so you don't have to argue on which class to make GN, LTPS or LIMPS. Instead, he suggest to combine them so they both get to be GN.


Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 08:56AM
I understand what he's saying. I just don't agree with dumping a class that has solid numbers on its own to add a combined class with limited numbers in each. I'm a fan of the limited and lite classes and think they could stand on their own in time. Very good numbers at Hillsboro and tomah for the limited class. The lite class seems to have stalled a little as far as numbers go.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 11:04AM
Quote
Grubby
I just don't agree with dumping a class that has solid numbers on its own to add a combined class with limited numbers in each. I'm a fan of the limited and lite classes and think they could stand on their own in time. Very good numbers at Hillsboro and tomah for the limited class. The lite class seems to have stalled a little as far as numbers go.

Hello Grubby.
The Light Pro class has more numbers than Limited Pro in R2. In R3, there are more Limiteds. In NTPA as a whole, all three are within similar numbers.

Most GN SF hooks in 2019 did not have that many tractors compared to just a few years ago. Even in R3, a number have switched to Light/Limited Pro. Since the 2 have been successfully combined, following Mr Webb's suggestion listing 7 classes, a combo could make a nice 8th class with larger numbers than SF currently has.

SF has had a nice run, and at a Regional/State level in Michigan and Wisconsin can still be viable. Again, look at trends and to the future. In a few years, there probably won't be many SF tractors, but a Pro Mod-style mix of Light/Limited Pro would have plenty of potential pullers.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 08:55AM
The puller had who was precommitted and who bought Ntpa licenses, 9 semis precommitted.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 10:08AM
Maybe its just the perspective that I look at it from, but I think the decision to cancel or go on lies with the promoters and the owners of the venues where the events are happening, not the sanctioning bodies. Because the situation may be very different for different locations in the next month or two, and to say that we're going to cancel everything for a month, or we're having everything as planned is painting with too broad a brush. For another thing, it may decided at a higher level than the promoter or fair board whether an event will happen- individual state governors, state health departments, or even local county boards may have the power to say no big events happening here.

I'm not an expert at infectious diseases like this, and frankly I'm not sure what should be believed from different sources, government included, but if we can't even have kids from the same area going to school together, then bringing people from hundreds of miles apart to be in somewhat close proximity for several hours or several days is probably a really bad idea.

A few years ago, (2007 maybe?) there was a foot and mouth disease concern in the spring before fair season. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it affects among other species, cattle and hogs. Horses can carry it and transmit it, but don't suffer affects of it. One of the things the USDA and IL Dept of Ag would have done if a case would have shown up somewhere like a county fair, is destroy all the cattle and hogs in a 6 mile radius. What a great way to become an enemy of your friends and neighbors. I wasn't on our board at that time, but they were prepared to cancel all livestock events if the situation called for it. I think by the end of this month, we will have a much better picture of what should be done.

Ryan Quillen
Rushville, IL
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 11:18AM
Something that we have to remember is alot of promoters rely on sponsors and donations to put on their event, now with many businesses being closed can or will they be willing to put money into a pull this summer? Pullers also could be tight financially , especially those that already have a limited budget to start with.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 03:04PM
I was just going to make that very point. I was talking with a promoter last week and that was one of his big concerns, he relies on a lot of small local businesses to help sponsor his event. With so many businesses not knowing what their future will look like through the summer they will likley not be as generous with their funds.

S'no Farmer
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Re: When is it time? April 09, 2020 02:26PM
I’m in charge of our county fair pull. Four businesses that I had lined up as sponsors have contacted me in the last week that they will no longer be able to do so. I anticipate they won’t be the last to back out. Going to make having a show very difficult if I lose many more.
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Re: When is it time? April 08, 2020 11:51PM
Speaking as a promoter for our fair pull second week in august. event not looking too hopeful? as others said, sponsorship is what most events live or die by? and with most businesses on lock down or even shut down? there just wont be any spare change to offer? the expenses involved with putting on a pull are huge! have to ask ourselves? if you were without most of your normal income for most of the year? would you still spend to take your family to a pull? doubt many can justify that expense at the moment?...and I cant put our fairboard into extreme financial difficulty if we take a blood bath by attempting an event? ...just a few thoughts
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Re: When is it time? April 10, 2020 05:09AM
We are in the same boat, we run a "Local" sizeable pull that supports various school clubs. BUT its run early June and with schools being closed we can't even begin to organize manpower and support from that club because none of them can be sure who is available and or when. And has been stated we cannot even think about how we would go to the local "establishments" and small businesses in the area asking for donations or sponsorships because 90% of them are closed or severely limited in operation.

We have come to the conclusion we are going to have to cancel our event this year and hold out hope our club in general is able to get a few dates in this year but its extremely unlikely the 25-30 events currently in the schedule will happen. That's the reality of where its at.

Red712
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Rules for thee but not for me (New York) April 15, 2020 02:45AM
So, we have the Governor of New York whom a number of people in one of the major political parties have been hoping would either replace or become running mate to their current presumptive nominee (sorry, he doesn't have female body parts. Said presumptive nominee already promised his veep slot to a woman).

This Governor's brother happens to be one of the main on-air personalities of a major cable news network. This network, and the personality, publicly touted how their on-air personality tested positive for Covid-19 on March 31. This on-air personality has been (allegedly) broadcasting from his basement. This past Easter Sunday, this on-air personality was out riding a bike with his family. Someone noticed him and asked "Shouldn't you be in quarantine?" This on-air personality berated the guy in his podcast this week. He also mentioned his wife was feeling symptoms and a Dr told he should continue quarantining.

Oops. He outed himself.

After his brother, and his network, have been preaching to people of the necessity of staying isolated if feeling symptoms, it seems this person feels like the guideline doesn't apply to him. I get that he may have been just with his family, and if he hadn't tested positive, that would be fine.... but dude, you had a positive test and now your wife is feeling symptoms.

(the main point of this post isn't to debate the good/bad of quarantining, or the medical/economic balance, or any of that stuff. It's the hypocrisy of people in media telling the public one thing while doing the opposite). *** The other possibility is he really doesn't have Covid-19 and the whole thing is fake news for ratings, but that would be more of a conspiracy. More likely, he just feels like he's above the rules imposed on the "little people."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2020 02:58AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Rules for thee but not for me (New York) April 15, 2020 02:58AM
Would that be like Trump telling everyone that they should be wearing a face mask but he won't. They Are all the same a bunch of phonies. Everyone else, just not them
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Re: Rules for thee but not for me (New York) April 15, 2020 03:00AM
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David B
Would that be like Trump telling everyone that they should be wearing a face mask but he won't. They Are all the same a bunch of phonies. Everyone else, just not them

Your reply would be more realistic (and accurate) if it also included or substituted the Surgeon General and other medical professionals. They were the ones advising that (also other politicians of both parties).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2020 03:11AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Rules for thee but not for me (New York) April 15, 2020 04:26AM
What part of Trump recommending that everyone should wear a mask and he won't is miss leading.
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Re: Rules for thee but not for me (New York) April 15, 2020 04:41AM
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David B
What part of Trump recommending that everyone should wear a mask and he won't is miss leading.

Sorry, I misread your prior post, thought it was referring to the general guideline of "don't wear a mask, save for medical people, they aren't that effective" to "ok, everyone can wear a mask now, they may have some value." I see your point now.

I will say I don't recall seeing Dr. Fauci, Dr. Brix, Dr. Adams (Surgeon General), from down the street neither Pelosi, Mitch, or any of the governors of either party wearing masks at their news conferences either... nor Jim Acosta or any of the other reporters at the news conferences.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2020 04:45AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: When is it time? April 15, 2020 08:26AM
Some KEY Homeland Security National Events:

Indy 500 is Sunday of BG Weekend. 8/23

Kentucky Derby? 9/5

Those are two public events that are truly stand alone.
They have been moved off their original dates. There are the exception to the rules, since they OWN their venue. Many pulling events don't have that chance. So cancelling something in June/July seems a little to early to pull the plug. However, every state and promotional group is different and we must respect their opinion.

Half full grandstands suck and no one wants to have that as a predictive outcome. Many will roll the dice with a half full grandstand and can adapt to cutting some expense or scaling back some features of attractions. Everyone always wants the best possible show, but the bottom line has to be viewed. Many NTPA events have a long history and maybe able to weather this storm for a couple of years.

Other events can use the extra time to come back stronger in 2021.

The "peak numbers" are forecast to hit Indiana on 4/19
The end of the initial 8 weeks of NO PUBLIC events larger than 50 people were set to expire on 4/24.
National "quarantine" ends 4/30
Indiana additional stay at home order to expire 5/1.

Those are some numbers which might change in the very near future.

Almost every state seems to have it's own directives, however, in the past several days Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky are working regionally.

Support your local or National Pull and respect the decision if it doesn't seem to be the way you think it should.
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Re: When is it time? April 15, 2020 09:06AM
Doc: I have to agree, this situation is so fluid that plans can, and will change weekly. How does any organization make plans when there is no road map for this pandemic. So many things come into play. Will the fans show up, will promoters be able and willing to take the financial risks. And last but not least, will the pullers themselves be able to pull at all after the economic impact on their businesses.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: When is it time? April 15, 2020 10:35AM
I've heard from three different promoters that have major concerns about sponsors. Most pulls rely on local businesses to be involved and some are already calling saying that they can't help out this year. So the combination of less sponsorship and less butts in the seats is going to drive most of these choices for promoters. One promoter said that he is reluctant to even ask businesses for money this year because he knows they will be suffering financially.

That is not even to mention that the government my mandate no large crowds for most of the summer, that has been thrown out there as a possibility.

S'no Farmer
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Re: When is it time? April 15, 2020 10:14PM
Maybe a little view into your future:
As we are a little ahead in things here, they are starting to open shops and schools here by Monday.
But that's after our numbers have been stable and low and also going down for like two weeks now.
BUT - Any sporting events, concerts, fairs or mass gatherings were at least suspended until August 31st. Actually, they say it's basically too risky to allow any mass gatherings before there's a vaccine.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: When is it time? April 15, 2020 11:57PM
"Opening schools?" I'm all for opening up parts of the economy, but we've got to be smart about it. Schools are very important, but they would be the last thing that I think should be opened. I get it-- it's a pain in the ass for parents to have kids home schooling and that some schools aren't doing as great of a job with distance learning as others. But I cannot think of a better way to cause a bad outbreak in a community. Think about all of those kids jammed together in school buses, classrooms, locker areas, and lunch rooms.

Young people are much more likely to go to school without showing symptoms, spread it to classmates and teachers, who then go home and spread it for a week or two before symptoms start to show up. Symptoms do not show up for 5-14 days and yet people can spread it during that time. And many young people may not show any symptoms at any point while spreading germs everywhere like more young people tend to do since they do not practice good hygiene like adults do.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 12:27AM
Yeah, opening schools doesn't sound like a great idea to me either. Potentially I can see colleges reopening first with precautions like mandatory masks, hand washing/sanitizing before you enter a room, etc... but having younger kids back in school... yeah that sounds like a perfect scenario for cross contamination.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 12:48AM
At this time, it doesn't look good for a vaccine..

So either let's just burn the economy completely to the ground or wash your darn hands, stay a few feet from others, and lets get back to work.

If any of you follow what is going on here in Michigan, the citizens of the state are literally going to force the Governor to step aside and the individual city and towns are going to open up their businesses. The Governor is waiting for her nod to be the vice-president to Joe Biden. So that alone should tell you how smart she is...
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 01:45AM
Michigan is a mess. I would have never thought Michigan could out do New York or California in taking liberties away. The Constitution is getting trampled in this country. The Democrats and Republics have both been busy grabbing power and it's pretty scary. The Supreme Court will be busy sorting out what powers the government actually has in this type of situation. Hopefully the courts lay down some ground work for what is reasonable and what isn't.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 03:13AM
I should add, that our "economy" was never really closed by the government. Factories/workshops etc. were only closed when they found cases and many factories turned into a shift and "zone" policy, where people then couldn't get in contact with each other anymore and if one shift / one zone had or has an infected person, the other shift / zones can go on. Some factories were shut by the owners / board of directors, because they couldn't run due to either shortage of supplied materials or where there was no way to have safe distances in between people.

What was closed were shopping centers, restaurants etc.
As of now it hasn't even shown in our unemployment statistics of march. It will in April ... but they don't expect near the meltdown as elsewehere.

The problem we have is with kids not in school is "shortage of qualified labour".

The number of newly infected per day are at about +- 2000 for the whole country (83 mio people) and the death toll per day is at about 300 or so. Since they now check every dead body, it looks like 80% of those who died with "Corona" on the paper wouldn't have made it to the end of the year anyway and after completely analysing one town with antibody tests, they've figured out the actual death rate was only at 0.4% (hospitalization still over 10 % - and that's nasty) and at the moment running our ICU capacety at like 65 % and these measures having instantly killed this years flu - things have gotten a little easier here.

I would like to point out these world statistics:
[www.worldometers.info]
Good to compare what's going on around the world in various countries. Those "x per million" rankings are quiet eye opening. And I never again will complain about our health system here. All around us things collapse and here it's like... "ok. bring it on".


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2020 03:21AM by Sascha.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 02:45AM
The government has proven time after time they are not and will not begin doing what is in the people's best interest. But do we really know at this time what is in our best interest? Socially distancing and closing businesses sucks but if we decide to hell with it and go back to the way things were now I believe is not in our best interest. I would love to be planning our first tractor pull outing and getting back to normal but lets not do it just to spite the government no matter how wrong we believe they are. We have to look at what we really believe is right at this time. This virus sucks but it is real and it is killing people and we cant stop it by ignoring it. We gotta do what needs done. Beat it. And then come together and clean up this political mess we are in.Not only is the virus a serious threat our existing government is too.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 03:28AM
A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 03:47AM
Quote
Grubby
A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 04:54AM
Quote
Stuart Maize

A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.

How does 80,000 in 12 months relate to 25,000 in 30 days? 25,000 in 30 days with the whole country taking steps to slow it down.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 05:02AM
Quote
Numbers


A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.

How does 80,000 in 12 months relate to 25,000 in 30 days? 25,000 in 30 days with the whole country taking steps to slow it down.


The 80,000 was during the normal flu season period which is considered November - March. That's made it an average of 440-450 dead per day.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 05:33AM
Quote
Stuart Maize



A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.

How does 80,000 in 12 months relate to 25,000 in 30 days? 25,000 in 30 days with the whole country taking steps to slow it down.



The 80,000 was during the normal flu season period which is considered November - March. That's made it an average of 440-450 dead per day.

not 2700 per day, and climbing.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 05:52AM
One thing that we need to keep in mind is that the even with qaraentining the numbers for corvid 19 are mind boggling. The deaths and the hospitalization is almost overwhelming our medical infrastructure. I don't ever remember any qaraentine with the flu. So I believe that we are comparing apples to oranges. What do you think the corvid 19 numbers would be if it was the " good old days" like the normal flu season when no social distancing, face masks, and a vast number of our population not in qaraentine? It would be unmanagable. Total chaos.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 07:10AM
Quote
Numbers




A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.

How does 80,000 in 12 months relate to 25,000 in 30 days? 25,000 in 30 days with the whole country taking steps to slow it down.



The 80,000 was during the normal flu season period which is considered November - March. That's made it an average of 440-450 dead per day.

not 2700 per day, and climbing.







On avg the US has 7500 deaths/ day. With the current environment we are in,...the Chinese Virus will be reported as the cause of death overwhelmingly whether it's the cause or not. ……. As for hospitals,.. most are Underwhelmed and laying personnel off. Eye Rolling.

The beautiful thing the over hypers have on their side is the argument that ,.."well it would of been much worse",...is factually incorrect. We will never know the truth of that. Which is the real problem because now they have precedent on doing this to our country .

The Great Depression had 25% unemployment,......we are approaching 20%......only an idiot can not do that math.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 11:35AM
Quote
Stuart Maize





A month ago, our president was saying it's no worse than the flu. Then he said we'd be open by Easter. And now we're having the "people will die, but we need the economy back" rhetoric. How much is a life worth? Two days of a factory running? Is that what a human life is worth? 4 days? A week? Tell me what a human life is worth in economic terms. And then all call yourselves good Christian's.

Where was your outrage back in 2018 when we lost 80,000 lives to the FLU? Were you too focused on the completion of the Special Council investigation of Trump about Russia?? Because apparently the media was. Eye Rolling The complete shutting down of a 22 trillion dollar GDP economy for this Chinese virus will be forever known as the greatest HOAX on our country since the election of the 44th POTUS.

How does 80,000 in 12 months relate to 25,000 in 30 days? 25,000 in 30 days with the whole country taking steps to slow it down.



The 80,000 was during the normal flu season period which is considered November - March. That's made it an average of 440-450 dead per day.

not 2700 per day, and climbing.







On avg the US has 7500 deaths/ day. With the current environment we are in,...the Chinese Virus will be reported as the cause of death overwhelmingly whether it's the cause or not. ……. As for hospitals,.. most are Underwhelmed and laying personnel off. Eye Rolling.

The beautiful thing the over hypers have on their side is the argument that ,.."well it would of been much worse",...is factually incorrect. We will never know the truth of that. Which is the real problem because now they have precedent on doing this to our country .

The Great Depression had 25% unemployment,......we are approaching 20%......only an idiot can not do that math.

The cause of every single death in the world is due to neurological hypoxia, the preceding factor is important though and deaths are not being reported as caused by SARS-COV-2 in cases where it's not. Do you have empirical evidence showing this is the case in an "overwhelming fashion?"

Hospital workers are being laid off because they are part of the hospital that is not functioning right now. The ICUs and EDs are being overrun.

The number of ESTIMATED deaths cause by the Flu in 2018 was 61k in a season from Oct to May. The number of CONFIRMED SARS-COV-2 deaths are 33,000 in 2.5 months. And yes, it would have been much higher without the precautions. The contagion factor of the Flu is 1.1 and SARS-COV-2 is 2.7. These are facts based on real empirical evidence.

Based on this information you can calculate the estimate number of deaths that would occur with out precautions, right? You quoted Flu numbers which use the same estimation. 392MM people in the US with 80% getting the disease and 75% showing symptoms with a death rate of ~2% (current rate is closer to 5%)= ~5MM Dead.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 12:22PM
Quote
TripleAlphaProcess

The cause of every single death in the world is due to neurological hypoxia, the preceding factor is important though and deaths are not being reported as caused by SARS-COV-2 in cases where it's not. Do you have empirical evidence showing this is the case in an "overwhelming fashion?"

Hospital workers are being laid off because they are part of the hospital that is not functioning right now. The ICUs and EDs are being overrun.

The number of ESTIMATED deaths cause by the Flu in 2018 was 61k in a season from Oct to May. The number of CONFIRMED SARS-COV-2 deaths are 33,000 in 2.5 months. And yes, it would have been much higher without the precautions. The contagion factor of the Flu is 1.1 and SARS-COV-2 is 2.7. These are facts based on real empirical evidence.

Based on this information you can calculate the estimate number of deaths that would occur with out precautions, right? You quoted Flu numbers which use the same estimation. 392MM people in the US with 80% getting the disease and 75% showing symptoms with a death rate of ~2% (current rate is closer to 5%)= ~5MM Dead.


Estimated 1.2 million deaths in the US per year are not reported,... ever. But that's another topic.

If you don't think they will pad the numbers to keep the narrative going then you are very naïve. Did you not see the Russia investigation,...the Kavanaugh confirmation,...the Impeachment trial?

The hospitals laying off workers due to the shut down was my point.

The CDC reported an est. 80,000 (EIGHTY THOUSAND) died from the flu in the winter off 17' 18'.

Who is to benefit when the country goes into a recession,...possible a depression? Answer ; the party who is not in control.

The men of this country who lived thru the Great Depression and helped get the country back strong again,....didn't wear man buns,...skinny jeans,...and have nose rings. God help us all!
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 01:45AM
im a lifelong repubilcan and the fake russia garbage kavanaugh and impeachment were all bs but this isnt that. this is worldwide. that other bs was just the libs in our country doing what libs do. what about the rest of the world are they just faking it too? its not good in europe. are they part of your conspiricy against us republicans? are they tanking their economy just to get trump out? theyre all shutdown. its a global thing and you sound like a uneducated hick with a tinfoil hat on with your bs. the world is bigger than your farm and your county. this isnt the flu. the flu doesnt put 20 % of people who get it in the hospital for 3 weeks. nobody is disagreeing that the flu is bad but this is way worse. this is bearly in our population and its already killed 30000 whats it look like in another 10 months when weve had a year of this?
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 03:02AM
Quote
hey stewie
im a lifelong repubilcan and the fake russia garbage kavanaugh and impeachment were all bs but this isnt that. this is worldwide. that other bs was just the libs in our country doing what libs do. what about the rest of the world are they just faking it too? its not good in europe. are they part of your conspiricy against us republicans? are they tanking their economy just to get trump out? theyre all shutdown. its a global thing and you sound like a uneducated hick with a tinfoil hat on with your bs. the world is bigger than your farm and your county. this isnt the flu. the flu doesnt put 20 % of people who get it in the hospital for 3 weeks. nobody is disagreeing that the flu is bad but this is way worse. this is bearly in our population and its already killed 30000 whats it look like in another 10 months when weve had a year of this?


Trump is spelled with a capital T.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 03:09AM
Quote
Stuart Maize


The cause of every single death in the world is due to neurological hypoxia, the preceding factor is important though and deaths are not being reported as caused by SARS-COV-2 in cases where it's not. Do you have empirical evidence showing this is the case in an "overwhelming fashion?"

Hospital workers are being laid off because they are part of the hospital that is not functioning right now. The ICUs and EDs are being overrun.

The number of ESTIMATED deaths cause by the Flu in 2018 was 61k in a season from Oct to May. The number of CONFIRMED SARS-COV-2 deaths are 33,000 in 2.5 months. And yes, it would have been much higher without the precautions. The contagion factor of the Flu is 1.1 and SARS-COV-2 is 2.7. These are facts based on real empirical evidence.

Based on this information you can calculate the estimate number of deaths that would occur with out precautions, right? You quoted Flu numbers which use the same estimation. 392MM people in the US with 80% getting the disease and 75% showing symptoms with a death rate of ~2% (current rate is closer to 5%)= ~5MM Dead.


Estimated 1.2 million deaths in the US per year are not reported,... ever. But that's another topic.

If you don't think they will pad the numbers to keep the narrative going then you are very naïve. Did you not see the Russia investigation,...the Kavanaugh confirmation,...the Impeachment trial?

The hospitals laying off workers due to the shut down was my point.

The CDC reported an est. 80,000 (EIGHTY THOUSAND) died from the flu in the winter off 17' 18'.

Who is to benefit when the country goes into a recession,...possible a depression? Answer ; the party who is not in control.

The men of this country who lived thru the Great Depression and helped get the country back strong again,....didn't wear man buns,...skinny jeans,...and have nose rings. God help us all!

Check the actual CDC data and stop making up numbers: [www.cdc.gov] (61,000) unless you're looking at the number of hospitalizations which was 810,000 in which case you're off by a factor of 10.

Who's padding the numbers? You really think this is all a liberal agenda? Have you been in the hospitals? Have you seen the numbers for yourself? Well, I can tell you I have. This is not my first time experiencing these healthcare crises.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 03:31AM
Quote
TripleAlphaProcess

Check the actual CDC data and stop making up numbers: [www.cdc.gov] (61,000) unless you're looking at the number of hospitalizations which was 810,000 in which case you're off by a factor of 10.

Who's padding the numbers? You really think this is all a liberal agenda? Have you been in the hospitals? Have you seen the numbers for yourself? Well, I can tell you I have. This is not my first time experiencing these healthcare crises.


I just clicked your link provided,.....the * by the 17-18 death numbers indicates an estimate of 61,000. I stand by the 80,000 number.

I'm fully aware of the over 800,000 hospitalizations of the Flu during that season also.

What I think is counter to what you think apparently. I will stay with my assessment that shutting down our economy was overblown,....and over hyped by the media.

1.7 million US deaths were initially predicted by the "experts",...….fully designed to panic the weakest of minds.....

When Trump suggested Hydroxychloroquine was showing amazing results on eliminating symptoms the experts and the media had a melt down. Now 3 weeks later Hydroxychloroquine is showing 95-100% success rates. Oh and by the way it's a generic drug that costs .10 to produce.

Don't take my freedom,.... because of your fear!
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 03:57AM
Quote
Stuart Maize


Check the actual CDC data and stop making up numbers: [www.cdc.gov] (61,000) unless you're looking at the number of hospitalizations which was 810,000 in which case you're off by a factor of 10.

Who's padding the numbers? You really think this is all a liberal agenda? Have you been in the hospitals? Have you seen the numbers for yourself? Well, I can tell you I have. This is not my first time experiencing these healthcare crises.


I just clicked your link provided,.....the * by the 17-18 death numbers indicates an estimate of 61,000. I stand by the 80,000 number.

I'm fully aware of the over 800,000 hospitalizations of the Flu during that season also.

What I think is counter to what you think apparently. I will stay with my assessment that shutting down our economy was overblown,....and over hyped by the media.

1.7 million US deaths were initially predicted by the "experts",...….fully designed to panic the weakest of minds.....

When Trump suggested Hydroxychloroquine was showing amazing results on eliminating symptoms the experts and the media had a melt down. Now 3 weeks later Hydroxychloroquine is showing 95-100% success rates. Oh and by the way it's a generic drug that costs .10 to produce.

Don't take my freedom,.... because of your fear!

CNN overhyped it and FOX underhyped it but looking at real actual data my numbers are accurate estimates of what would have happened without precautions. It's simple epidemiology and baysien statistics.

In terms of Hydroxy can you provide the studies that shows 95%-100% success rates? I am happy to provide RCTs that shows that's not even close and the number of patients dying of Myocradial Infarctions is extremely high because of the cytokine release from SARS-COV-2 and the associated MOA of Hydroxy.

If you really think it only take 10 cents to produce one dose of Hydroxy then to me it only costs a few hundred bucks to produce a billet block because that's the cost of materials and not the COGs.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 04:15AM
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TripleAlphaProcess

CNN overhyped it and FOX underhyped it but looking at real actual data my numbers are accurate estimates of what would have happened without precautions. It's simple epidemiology and baysien statistics.

In terms of Hydroxy can you provide the studies that shows 95%-100% success rates? I am happy to provide RCTs that shows that's not even close and the number of patients dying of Myocradial Infarctions is extremely high because of the cytokine release from SARS-COV-2 and the associated MOA of Hydroxy.

If you really think it only take 10 cents to produce one dose of Hydroxy then to me it only costs a few hundred bucks to produce a billet block because that's the cost of materials and not the COGs.


Estimates are not accurate until they are proven facts. That's learned in grade school. As far as the 100% success rates from the generic drug Trump suggested called Hydroxychloroquine,...Actual doctors were reporting this to the public. I doubt you had a chance to see those reports by watching CNN all day however Eye Rolling

The .10 cost to produce Hydroxychloroquine was stated to show that this Chinese Virus is going to be fairly quick to treat and not a delayed by some big expensive drug company .

When you find a generic billet block let me know...………….Cool
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 05:23AM
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Stuart Maize


CNN overhyped it and FOX underhyped it but looking at real actual data my numbers are accurate estimates of what would have happened without precautions. It's simple epidemiology and baysien statistics.

In terms of Hydroxy can you provide the studies that shows 95%-100% success rates? I am happy to provide RCTs that shows that's not even close and the number of patients dying of Myocradial Infarctions is extremely high because of the cytokine release from SARS-COV-2 and the associated MOA of Hydroxy.

If you really think it only take 10 cents to produce one dose of Hydroxy then to me it only costs a few hundred bucks to produce a billet block because that's the cost of materials and not the COGs.


Estimates are not accurate until they are proven facts. That's learned in grade school. As far as the 100% success rates from the generic drug Trump suggested called Hydroxychloroquine,...Actual doctors were reporting this to the public. I doubt you had a chance to see those reports by watching CNN all day however Eye Rolling

The .10 cost to produce Hydroxychloroquine was stated to show that this Chinese Virus is going to be fairly quick to treat and not a delayed by some big expensive drug company .

When you find a generic billet block let me know...………….Cool

Therefore, your estimate on the number of Flu deaths from 2017-2018 isn't accurate but the number of confirmed deaths from SARS-COV-2 is accurate. Thereby, proving the point I made earlier.

I am a Medical Doctor, with an additional doctorate in Pharmacology and a degree in Epidemiology. I have been in medical research since 1996. I don't watch CNN or Fox. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I am a medical professional that uses facts and actual data to form my opinions and not the case examples from one or two hospitals. This isn't a local disease, this is a pandemic.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 05:31AM
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TripleAlphaProcess

Therefore, your estimate on the number of Flu deaths from 2017-2018 isn't accurate but the number of confirmed deaths from SARS-COV-2 is accurate. Thereby, proving the point I made earlier.

I am a Medical Doctor, with an additional doctorate in Pharmacology and a degree in Epidemiology. I have been in medical research since 1996. I don't watch CNN or Fox. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I am a medical professional that uses facts and actual data to form my opinions and not the case examples from one or two hospitals. This isn't a local disease, this is a pandemic.

I said I stand by the 80,000. And showed your number of 61,000 to also be an estimate.

I am an Economist and have been one since 1990. The law of Diminishing Marginal Utility always applies to someone who thinks their intelligence is superior when common sense is the derivative.

20% unemployment is unprecedented in modern times. It's not going to end well.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 06:14AM
Quote
Stuart Maize


Therefore, your estimate on the number of Flu deaths from 2017-2018 isn't accurate but the number of confirmed deaths from SARS-COV-2 is accurate. Thereby, proving the point I made earlier.

I am a Medical Doctor, with an additional doctorate in Pharmacology and a degree in Epidemiology. I have been in medical research since 1996. I don't watch CNN or Fox. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I am a medical professional that uses facts and actual data to form my opinions and not the case examples from one or two hospitals. This isn't a local disease, this is a pandemic.

I said I stand by the 80,000. And showed your number of 61,000 to also be an estimate.

I am an Economist and have been one since 1990. The law of Diminishing Marginal Utility always applies to someone who thinks their intelligence is superior when common sense is the derivative.

20% unemployment is unprecedented in modern times. It's not going to end well.

I don't think my intelligence is superior, I'm simply stating I know a thing or two about medicine and how to accurately estimate the impact of a pandemic just like you are an an expert on how it might affect the economy.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 09:50AM
with a commanding takedown its triplealphaprocess for the win!

it doesnt take an economist to see that this is bad for the economy. hospitalization rates are 20%. if even 10% of us are in the hospital thats not great for the economy either and thats the whole point of our shutdown. i trust trump to get the economy through this.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 10:16AM
Quote
hey stewie
with a commanding takedown its triplealphaprocess for the win!

it doesnt take an economist to see that this is bad for the economy. hospitalization rates are 20%. if even 10% of us are in the hospital thats not great for the economy either and thats the whole point of our shutdown. i trust trump to get the economy through this.


So you like wrestlers in tights,...……….it all makes sense now,...…………….
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 03:39AM
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chuck knapp
The government has proven time after time they are not and will not begin doing what is in the people's best interest. But do we really know at this time what is in our best interest? Socially distancing and closing businesses sucks but if we decide to hell with it and go back to the way things were now I believe is not in our best interest. I would love to be planning our first tractor pull outing and getting back to normal but lets not do it just to spite the government no matter how wrong we believe they are. We have to look at what we really believe is right at this time. This virus sucks but it is real and it is killing people and we cant stop it by ignoring it. We gotta do what needs done. Beat it. And then come together and clean up this political mess we are in.Not only is the virus a serious threat our existing government is too.

Well said Chuck! I know that not everyone will get the virus and if they did end up contracting the virus they wouldn't necessarily end up dying from it, but that is a risk that everyone is facing right now. With that being said if you end up being one of the unfortunate people that end up contracting the virus and do die from it, the economy won't be of any concern of yours ever again at that point. I guess it comes down to a point of how much you're willing to gamble with people's lives at this point. I'm not saying the economy isn't important and I know people are struggling to keep their head above water, but if it's your (fill in the blank... mother, brother, grandchild) that dies because of this I'm pretty sure thinking about the economy will be the least of your concerns at that point.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 07:15AM
Well said Chuck. I think just hanging an open sign back up on the country would be a horrible idea too. However, I think we can make some adjustments to how we are handling things. For instance, I don't see what's wrong with having some businesses that are "non-essential" reopen if they have protective measures inplace. One dumb example here in NY was a car wash that was forced to close. It was an automated wash and it was family run. There was no interaction between people and they just stayed in their cars and rode through the wash. The owners were wearing masks and social distancing was already part of the business model. They were forced to close. Idiotic! It had no impact on a viral spread. There or tons of examples like this that are just examples of Government overreach. Roping off sections of Walmart in Michigan that sell paint because it's "non-essential" but yet you can drive over to a hardware store and buy paint. Now you're going to two stores when you could have got your groceries and paint in one stop. Banning the sale of seeds? What? The news is talking of shortages of migrant workers for planting in California's Central Valley but yet you can't buy your own seeds in some areas to plant your own garden... ludicrous! The MI Governor said it was too cold for seeds anyways... who is she to decide when I start my seed trays indoors? We need to find a logical middle ground instead of pushing the pendulum too far either way. There are logical solutions somewhere in the middle but we never seem to find them.

Pulling events this year... I don't think they will happen. I can't see any local, county, or state fairs happening this year. Will there be a stand alone event? Maybe, but I doubt the group gathering bans will be lifted. I think the Group gathering requirement will be the last of all the bans lifted, and it might not be lifted until we have a vaccine so the only sports you might see are major sports on TV with empty stands, and I'm not even sure they will happen because what will they do as soon as they have some positive tests in a sport? Cant the NFL quarantine a team for 14 days and still have a season?

To me, I just don't see pulling in 2020 at least as things stand right now.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 08:05AM
The virus is bad, but there might not ever be a vaccine. AIDS is a virus, and been around for decades but no vaccine. The shut down will likely wind up being worse because everybody going broke because the country can't stay out of business much longer. All the ones telling us to just sit in the pot waiting for it to boil are getting paid either way. Either way gonna have to be careful opening back up.
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 10:50AM
I think the odds of finding a vaccine are greater than not finding one. The University of Pittsburgh developed a vaccine for Sars-Cov1 and it's already shown in lab animals to also be effective against Sars Cov2 (the virus that causes this disease). It's undergoing clinical trials. There's also a vaccine currently being tested in Washington State and it's been about 3 weeks since it was first injected into humans. Also, Johnson & Johnson has a vaccine candidate that they are already gearing up manufacturing for. They are currently readying a plant in the Netherlands and one in the US to produce one billion doses. The vaccine candidate has not gone through clinical trials yet but apparently they are confident enough about it that they are willing to manufacture it on a large scale before it's approved. That's an expense gamble so they must have a fair amount of confidence in it.

Yes, Aids doesn't have a vaccine... it affects a very small portion of the population so there's less incentive to devote many resources towards it. Aids is also relatively easy to avoid through some simple behavioral/lifestyle changes... Sars-Cov2 on the other is transmitted pretty easily through the air as well as by contact to others as well as contact with items that infected people touched. The ease of getting this virus and the rate of infection is what will drive so many more resources toward finding a vaccine.

All of these may fail, and we may not find one... if that's the case... There are also more and more reports about re-infection for people who have already recovered. That's the part that's unsettling and has bothered me from the beginning. It's still early but that's something to try to keep a close eye on. That's why we need a vaccine.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 08:06AM
Here in Iowa we are few so social distancing isn't hard with all our open space. But at this time even with our low numbers infected I don't think we should get too carried away with opening up the state. I feel bad for the businesses effected by this but lightening up now I don't feel is the right move. People need to put preassure on congress to get back to work and get more money moving to the businesses.They are taking spring break? What the hell
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Re: When is it time? April 16, 2020 09:08AM
Medicine is motivated by dollars nowadays, not the healing ethics that it was started on, why fix a problem with people running constantly to the pharmacy and dr. spending millions a day, the old adage of if we can go to the moon ,-- we can cure the common cold, (aids, ect. ).
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 03:54AM
Who out there is ready to get in line for a vaccine developed,tested, manufactured in China & endorsed by the W.H.O. ? Count me out. The Mayer of NY City has indeed come out & wanted unknown causes of deaths labeled as covid 19. Motives unstated. This is bad, no denying that, but. So are depressions. So are tyrannical governments. I have personally never been vaccinated for SARS, swine flu, bird flu, or any of the others that have come our way the last 15 years. Nor has anyone I know. These seem to tend to originate in the same part of the world. You seem to hear little about them today. Could it be the masses developing immunity over time ? I' m asking, I truly don't know. But I do know we do not actually have the 2 trillion dollars we just an tied up. That will be printed. I do know small buisiness' can not survive with zero income. Depressions have death tolls as well. Who will tally those ? Will there be 24/7 coverage of this fallout ? Rest assured enemies of our constition & way of life , both within & abroad are watching. How we reacted, how many liberties we are willing to sacrifice, how much economic devastation. They are taking notes & no one can deny how easy this was to unleash. I know this is a tractor pulling site, & this is off subject, but I do not think there will be many pulls during a depression & I don' t think they have them in many communist countries either. Sorry, more questions than answers.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 05:02AM
The following is undeniable truth:

-We need to move manufacturing and it would seem research also back stateside. I'll pay extra for home-grown products.

-We need a new "greatest generation," at least a modern form of it. I don't think we will ever see a generation do what our grandparents did during WW2 but we need these 15-25 year olds to get into STEM disciplines and become a new, brighter bunch of scientists, mathematicians, engineers, etc to handle situations like this in a more aggressive manner. Heck they may be the ones that cure cancer too.

-We have never, ever seen anything like this. Truth or not, my opinion starts here: the responses at the federal and state levels are getting mixed reviews but this is all uncharted waters. I think some actions we need to let the gov't off the hook about but some things (example: not letting church members congregate in a responsible manner but allowing hundreds of people into a Lowes/Home Depot) are sketchy. Heck, I started to like our governor but he needs to calm down...all the women-folk in Kentucky drop what they're doing at 5pm and gotta watch him drone on for an hour...but I digress. Any grandstanding, posturing, or politicizing the health and welfare of the people, by any party, is B.S. and should be handled at the next election cycle.

A good prescription for the moment was best offered by my favorite singer/songwriter, the late John Prine when he said:

"Blow up your TV,
throw away your paper;
Move to the country,
build you a home;
Plant a little garden,
eat a lot of peaches:
Try and find Jesus on your own"

Whole lotta truth in that chorus, friends.




Bryan Lively -

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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 05:47AM
Topic to go along with this discussion. If they were to allow pulling this year, do you think spectators will show up to watch? I have thought about it and I feel that grandstand attendance would be down 50% or more. Not saying it would totally be about the possibility of catching Covid-19 but I feel with the scale of the virus and economic misfortune that is going on it will be very difficult to draw a paying audience.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 07:19AM
I think the economic impact this shutdown has had on the everyday person will indeed impact attendance, if there are pulls this summer. I don't think the vast majority of folks have this overwhelming fear of the virus. Anyone I know, minus my mother, anyways. I work for a company that employees 15,000. We have had 2 confirmed cases, and I am pretty sure they are back at work. Our local hospitals are actually laying off nurses because the beds are empty. I believe that self quarantining and social distancing are a good idea, for those who want to self enforce it. The fact is, it is not that deadly to the majority of people. Yes, the elderly and sick should probably practice what the government is preaching. But, it should be left up to the individual to decide if the risk is acceptable or not. My opinion anyways.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 08:03AM
Quote
LSS Fan
I think the economic impact this shutdown has had on the everyday person will indeed impact attendance, if there are pulls this summer. I don't think the vast majority of folks have this overwhelming fear of the virus. Anyone I know, minus my mother, anyways. I work for a company that employees 15,000. We have had 2 confirmed cases, and I am pretty sure they are back at work. Our local hospitals are actually laying off nurses because the beds are empty. I believe that self quarantining and social distancing are a good idea, for those who want to self enforce it. The fact is, it is not that deadly to the majority of people. Yes, the elderly and sick should probably practice what the government is preaching. But, it should be left up to the individual to decide if the risk is acceptable or not. My opinion anyways.

The quarantine isn't to keep you from getting it, it is to keep you from spreading it when you are not showing symptoms.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 08:21AM
"The quarantine isn't to keep you from getting it, it is to keep you from spreading it when you are not showing symptoms."

Well if you are on the other side of that equation, the one who it is being spread to, then yes quarantine is to prevent you from getting it.

I cannot spread it to someone who decides to self quarantine...
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 08:25AM
So what you're saying that if you yourself have it without symptoms, you couldn't care less if you spread it to other people...? Or am I reading you wrong?
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 08:33AM
No, I am saying that people should use common sense and also manage their own risk how they see fit.

If anyone thinks they have the virus, then I would say common decency would mean not go out and spread it. You know, the same way we treat any other infectious disease.

But if I believe I am a healthy individual, and I think the reward of going to the beach outweighs the risk of getting COVID-19, then I should go and it is not up to the government to tell me I can or cannot.

The person who feels the risk outweighs the reward can stay at home.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 07:21AM
Great reading, however the topic was when/if we get back to pulling when will it happen. Will we have any national pulling in 2020?
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 07:42AM
I think the south (Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky) will have 90% of the pulls as scheduled starting in June. Not sure about the other states.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 07:57AM
Just a guess, but I suspect if any pulling happens in 2020 it would be a very small brush pull somewhere. We have one that is a fundraiser. No admission fee .small purse paid with hook fees & money raised at the eat stand & raffles. No sponsors. That MAY happen, but even there is liability concerns. What would be a real shame is if we suffer through this definite for sure economic devestation only to find out the only answer is a natural built resistance through the population. In other words same # of sickness & death spread over a longer time frame. It seems the population as a whole has been surpringly cooperative thus far. But as it starts to look like some in power want the so called curve to be more of a plateau, I don't know. The NY city mayor wants those undeclared cause of deaths prior to the peak classified as covid 19 AND added to the CURRENT daily death toll. ( thus making the curve plateau, not decline) why ? Bryan! I hear you ! For the 1st time finally yesterday on some obscure cable news show someone actually expressed concern that ag giant Syngenta is owned by a state owned communist Chinese company. My biggest fear is how easily this was done & now it's been laid bare what our response will be next time.
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Re: When is it time? April 17, 2020 10:06AM
I dont think you will se much going on in KY this year and if theres not a magic pill come up with next year will be in Jepardy also .we have several phases to go through that will kill this Summer
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