11:31:29pm, Monday, May 20, 2024
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illeagle superfarms at mexico
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mexico spectator
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I was at mexico mo saturday night and there was two super farms from nebraska and the announcer said that they did not meet the rules. Just wondering what the problem was. Thats along ways to travel not to know the rules. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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asker
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What tractors were they?
Anything to do with Apples? It is OK, they can't read. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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was there
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they had 14mm pumps on |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 763 |
I'm not sure 14mm is a problem in the SF class, but heard they were the new 8000 series which evidently is a problem. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Anonymous User
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8000 series allow for larger plungers than a Bosch P |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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bad apples
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Sorry but nobody likes bad apples |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Uh Huh
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Those pumps are an "aftermarket" custom built pump. They look like a Bosch P8500 but have a custom housing that is taller, longer, and wider to accept LARGE plungers/barrels. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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rules man
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Are these pumps legal to run in the outlaws? |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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outlaw rulebook
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Page 36 superfarm rules 1f: the maximum size pump for diesel fuel injections p-pump. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Mr. Black Man
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It should also read, no aftermarket pumps allowed, only Bosch or Denso OEM cases allowed. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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outlaw super farm puller
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outlaw super farm class agreed in Omaha that you can only run the 3000 and 7700 series pumps for 2010 season, it was also put in the rules that 8000 series pumps are "illegal" for 2010 season, so if you have a 8000 series , get if off before Ravanna or you will be illegal, from what i hear all tractors will be checked starting with both Deck Tractors, i am not accussing them of cheating but they were the tractors with them on last week at a pull, hopefully they will have on legal pumps for ravanna |
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Re: Was There
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Anonymous User
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I was at Mexico those two outlaw tractors that are being spoke of were allowed to hook exhibition only. They were not really that impressive!! They would not have won the class even if allowed to compete. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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was there
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I was there at the meeting in Omaha and Allen Andrews and Rodney Davison talked about only 13mm allowed but nothing was done, they were all talking about the water thing and didnt care about the pump rule. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Mr. Black Man
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Sounds like this @#$%& better get settled before the season is well under way!!!!! In my opinion, the P8600 pump shouldn't be allowed, it is an AFTERMARKET pump, just as a BILLET PUMP is for a Pro Stock. If they allow the P8000 aftermarket P pump then I should be able to run a Billet pump then. Don't try and agrue, same @#$%& thing, AFTERMARKET is AFTERMARKET anyway you look at it. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Mr. White Man
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Mr Black Man:: These pumps you are so worried about are called a P8300 series not a P8600 you come on here and flap your stupid mouth and you dont what your talking about maybee you should get a fricken brain before the season is well under way!! |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Calm down and cut the guy some slack. I usually hold my tongue, but there are too many people filled with anger and hate that are very quick to jump on someone for a minor mistake or a spelling error. He got one number in the pump series wrong… he must be a complete moron, thanks for pointing that out Mr. "fricken" Perfect. To all the grammar and spelling teachers… we get it, some guys can’t spell and they write horribly… some people write well… we get it… give it a rest. To all you hate filled people who just want to rip people apart… try to contribute something helpful instead of just being so quick to pounce on others.
Whether it’s 8300 or 8600, his point is that he believes it to be an aftermarket housing, and therefore he believes it should be illegal. Personally I think it’s a great discussion on where you draw the line for P-pumps. Should it be only Denso and Bosch housings, should others be allowed? What series should and shouldn’t be allowed? What constitutes “aftermarket” these days? Are pump limits even really needed with a 3x3 turbo? All are excellent topics for the SF class. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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here is what aftermarket means
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Something you go buy from Autozone. Ya know, just like a componenet chassis or a billet block. AFTERMARKET. |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Here’s where it get a little trickier… what about OEM replacement? It’s aftermarket, but still OEM. If rocken-tech gets an OEM license for the 8600 should it still be an issue.
You can currently get 16mm plungers in a 7100, if you put a plunger limit how do you easily enforce and police it? If you put a plunger limit does it really matter what pump housing you run? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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here's what aftermarket means
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I would agree with you Jake. It really should not matter what housing the superfarms run as long as the plunger limit is met.
How do you police and enforce it? I am not sure there is a way. Guess if someone thinks there is an illegal plunger size in the class, they need to put their money up and protest itand if it's illegal then the protester keeps the pump. Or they could just go by the honor system. That ALWAYS works doesn't it. lol |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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Mr. Black Man
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I agree sort of. In order for it to be considered an OEM replacement, it would need to carry the OEM part number, so if it was a replacement pump for lets say a (for example) Mack E7-350HP, then it would need to have that same part number for that series of pump, with the same components as the OEM Bosch pump had. JMHO. |
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Re: illegal superfarm pumps
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CPR
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Off topic, but that animated avatar is F%$@#&g HILARIOUS!
CPR |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Kurt v.b
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yea i will put my name, i was at the meeting in omaha, and evidently you weren't or you weren't listening, we specifically talked about the 14 ml pumps and came to the conclusion with imput from Rodney and Norm that for 2010 the only series that would be allowed would be the 3000 and 7700 series, in fact it was put in the notes that 8000 series would not be allowed, and i was the one taking the notes that were handed in at the meeting, so either you weren't listening or you have a 8000 sereies, which will be illegal, at least that is what we decided at the meeting, we will wait for Doug's decision and what ever he decides is what we will all have to pull under. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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it WAS talked about limiting to 13 mm p pumps..but was NEVER voted on...there are already 14 mm pumps running in outlaw... |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Kurt v.b
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14 ml pumps are legal if you use 3000 or 7700 series, but it was voted on 14 to 0 to not allow 8000 series, still have the notes that were handed in if you want to see them, or you can call me my number is in the outlaw book, or put your name and number on and i will call you, that way we can discuss this on the phone instead of on pulloff, i have a call into Doug to find out what the rule is going to be and i will let everyone know as soon as Doug calls me back, i will try him again today if i don't hear from him |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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KurtV.B
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just talked to Doug and he said 14 ml pumps in 8000 series are legal for 2010, this isn't what the group talked about at the meeting (and i was there) but he said he never got anything that said that they were illegal so it didn't get in the rule book for 2010. just letting ever one know what i found out. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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splainerator
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Any more questions why Outlaws is so short on tech people now ????????????
My guess is the Apple gang has those pumps and the KING cannot over rule what the illeterate Nebraskans can't read nor understand. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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not HP
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give it a rest Harold.... |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Registered: 12/27/2008 Posts: 41 |
OK, so its 14 mil limit in all pump bodies ? aftermarket, bosch, nipendenso, ect. ??? |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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apple rule book interpretor
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I think you all are idiots. Just because something was talked about at rules meeting doesnt mean it is a rule. And by the way how do you read something that doesnt exist? The 09 rule book reads P pump. That narrows it down. I hope Apple kicks all your sorry whiny asses all summer. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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mexico fannn
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lets see, 12feet behind ecmtpa tractor. Not that impressive. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Trash Talker
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Yep once again we are all sitting here in front of the computer waiting to see what else gets said!! I think this is really not cool for a club to do this to each other. Not only does this look bad on the members but the club in it self. What are all of you going to do if this club goes down because of all of this crap on this page? I know there is other clubs to pull with, so my question is if you dont like what is going on with this "STUFF" than why dont you all find one of the other clubs to pull with? Now I will leave this with a final thought, if you do cont to pull with the outlaws than instead of sitting here in front of the computer waiting to tear down people and your club why dont you all let your tractors do the talking....ON THE TRACK!! Oh and let the baching begin with this post...cause no matter what people say you all will find something wrong with a post and have to comment back.. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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NTPA
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Are these pumps legal in NTPA?? |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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my plan
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ok, my plan, and others in nebr bush is to compete against the decks.
if i get beat, so be it. if i beat them with my 3000 p pump, i will really enjoy it. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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funny
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you know whats funny about that statement is that you have that same size plungers as they have |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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the problem
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The problem is that the people in question (apple gang) did not go to the rules meeting to here what was voted on. The class voted that the pumps were not allowed because it would open up a whole new can of worms and the pullers did not want to go there. NTPA had just posted on there wed site that the pumps would not be legal for 2010. It would be easy to detect the pump and if you took that out, problem solved. With that all said and done, the pullers knew that the pump was not approved for Outlaw use. There for, no one had a question as to weither or not they could use that pump. All plans for the year of pulling were made knowing that the pump in question was not a option. The (apple gang) pullers in question did not know this.
Now here is the big question. When did Doug "apprpove" the pump? He said last Feb. If this was so the case, why did he not send out his letter, like he always does? Or was it the last week or so. The thinking is, what does (apple gang) that puller have with Doug. You would think Doug would be smart enough to stay away from that puller. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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the fix
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The apple needs to stay away from the outlaws and find some other organization to try and ruin!! |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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fat albert
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It seems there's a few tractors from nebraska that love to ruin things... The Apple with the michigan water, and Magnum force with michigan water, or a radiator with a dry block in louisville... Kinda interesting... |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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umm really
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Now sersiously, how old are you? Did everyone act like this a couple years ago when there was 2 tractors that got kicked out b/c of things. NO. Whys that, because everything was handled way different. And this would have been the same way but things got out that were not suppose to get out and on and on. Now we can sit here and blame people for whatever till we are blue in the face but what good does it do. Now from what I have read on here with one post having the rules on it, and Kurt saying what he said, it sounds like to me that there was no rule change. Like I said One can say one thing and another can say another but its what is in the RULE BOOK that is whats important. I think Trash Talker has the right point in all of this....IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THAN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. But I bet if I go to a pull I will find all of the same people there. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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The Solution
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At the rules meeting it was brought up not to run 14mm pumps not much was said and we went on to the next subject. Nothing was said about the 8000 series pumps,dont know if anyone knew what it was. Now all of a sudden it was voted on to keep them out sounds fishy that all this came about when they heard the "apple gang" had them on. Where was the letter saying this was passed at the rules meeting??!! Hasnt anyone learned their lesson after the water mess from last year?? Maybee the "apple gang' can read cause it says on page 36 rule 1f: the maximum size for diesel pump for diesel fuel injections p-pumps. Looks like to me the "apple gang" out smarted everyone again and everyone is pissed again. At the sign up table in Ravenna there handing out free towels to wipe the egg off your faces!! |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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lol
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And yet the notes of the meeting that were taken by 2 different people indicate that there was a vote on the pump. It is amazing that the notes were there but yet Doug never got them. I wonder if it had anything to do with him leaving after the votes were put together and there was not "board meeting" |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Anonymous User
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This whole thing is starting to smell bad once again. Last year the Bad Apple Dumpling Gang were crucified on here literally hundreds of times for "not being able to read". This year they go to the first pull and they are told they can't pull because their pumps are illegal. The top of this thread starts out with the usual accusations on them that they can't read, they pay off Doug, they need to leave, etc... Then KVB comes on and says that this was voted on at the rules meeting and the vote was 14 to 0 that the 8000 series pumps would not be allowed in 2010. Then some people respond that the pump thing was discussed but not voted on and that everyone really only cared about water at the rules meeting. Then KVB comes back on saying that these people were not listening. Then KVB comes back on and says that Doug just told him that he had not been provided any kind of documentation on SF pump rules and that the 2010 SF pump rules did NOT change. O.K., so now, as stated above, all of these people who were again saying that the Apples can't read have egg on their faces. It is really amazing that this "Sour Grapes Gang" could say that there was a vote of 14 to 0 on this, but yet it's not in the rule book and not one bit of written documentation was sent out regarding it. In fact, some people at the meeting claim that there was no vote at all. Was it a double top secret vote? Why only 14 votes? The Apples were criticized above for not attending the meeting but if the vote was only 14 to 0 then it seems that over half of the class did not attend the meeting, or did not know about the vote. Weird huh? Anyway, once again, this makes the Outlaws look terrible since there is obviously no communication whatsoever, except on this board! |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Kurt V.B
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first off mod guy, at least i put my name on when i post, and like i said anyone can call me to discuss this, i was just trying to find out how it all happened, because like i stated before i still have my notes from the meeting and yes it was voted on and was a 14 to 0 vote to not allow the 8000 series pump,( and yea there was only 14 memebers at the meeting), after i called Doug he told me that those notes never got to him, why?? i don't know, but they never got to him, (someone in the middle dropped the ball and didn't give Doug all the notes) that is why it is not in the rule book, as far as i am concerned that is the end of discussion, i am disapointed that what we voted on never got to Doug, but now we move on, and second of all i never blamed the Deck's for this, they called Doug and he told them that as far as he could tell from the rules that it would be legal to have the 8000series, so they bought one or two, now the rest off us will have to play catchup, hope to see everyone in Ravanna and lets have some fun, hopefully the weather hold out so we can have some good pulling, you can't change the past but you can impact the future, so lets all just remember that tractor pull ing still just a hobby and should be fun. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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I don't believe modguy was critisizing you about what you said but more less proving that this organization is not being run correctly and not having everyone on the same page. It just goes to show nobody was given a specific answer to the pump rule. The president obviously isn't doing his job if everyone in the class doesn't know the rules. It doesn't matter whether it was voted on or not. I don't know anything about this association other than what is said on this message board but from the sounds of it, it definitely needs some help or there will be people leaving left and right. It is the president and the class reps. to make sure everyone in the class knows and understands the rules and enforces them. Sorry but its pretty sad when people in this association have to use "Pulloff" to find out rules for their class. To be honest I would be embarrassed to be associated with the Outlaws. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Mrs. Apple
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I will too put my name on here or whatever you all have named me... I know alot of you dont believe anything that comes out of "The Decks" mouths, and we understand that. But we have said that what happened last year was wrong and should have NEVER happened. But as Kurt has said we cant change the past. We want to run for points again this year, LEGALLY. Thats why we called Doug on 12-08-09 at 2:56pm (yes I have all that writen down in case of stuff like this) to find out if these pumps were legal to run and he said yes they where fine. So we bought two. Than we went down to Mexico and all of this stuff happened. So we called Doug again on 6-14-10 at 2:38pm, and he said yes they were legal to run as long as they were 14mm p-pump, and so they are. We are not tring to do anything ILLEGAL, we just want to run what we are allowed to run, just the same as anyone else out there in this hobby. So who ever is on here saying that we are to blame for all of this, I would like to ask How is this our fault? So why dont we all stop this bashing and making of the club look bad and go out and enjoy your hobby!! And if you have any questions or problems with us please call us instead of bashing on here it dont get anything solved!!! Our number is in the book!!!! |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Anonymous User
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Kurt, I was not trying to bash you. I am just saying that there are obvious, and huge, communication problems here. You and Tugger say that it is over and done, so fine. But read this thread from top to bottom and you can see the ramifications of this kind of thing. Look at the subject: "illeagle superfarms at mexico", for exemple. Even if it was spelled wrong it still does damage to the accused and to the group as a whole. Decks have been totally trashed, again, and called all kinds of names, again. And they had the word of the president that they were legal!!! At least something has to be learned from this fiasco, or it just damages the group even more. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 763 |
Remember that this was NOT an Outlaw pull. ECMTPA publishes their rulebook online & it clearly states the pump rule several places.
Something everyone in every organization should take from this is to thourghly read your rulebook every year to make sure that what you voted on at the rules meeting made it into the rule book & that nothing unexpected was added. If it's brought to the attention of everyone immediately instead of near or after the first pull it may be possible to address the issue. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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BGR
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Nice answer Deere Puller ... I was running out of beer and thought I had to make another run since the common sense thoughts where not being ..well... thought out 
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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author
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Cant a super farm only take so much fuel, i'm not really sure the advantage could someone explain? I'm guessing that they deliver fuel more efficiently? |
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The END
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
Guys (gals) it simple. Doug made a call. It was not the right one that the pullers voted on. I asked the same question 3 years ago and got a different call. Am I ticked? Um a maybe, but I'm over it.
Now what to do: GO pulling. The end Let this die John Platte |
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Re: The END
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the REAL HP
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So it is OK with you that 3 years ago when you asked to run the SAME pump and the same person told you, NO?
But today the answer is yes. Nothing specifically in the rule book about it 3 years ago. Rule on that reads the same today as it did 3 years ago. If I were you, I would want to KNOW, what changed? Why the different answer? From my removed perspective, and after reading all this, looks like only thing that changed is WHO asked. No horsie in the race, just pointing out the obvious. |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
There is two things to consider:
The amount of fuel an engine can take (which is related to the amount of air going through) and the time it takes to inject it. The bigger the plunger, the faster (and later) you can inject your given amount of fuel. This will help your performance tremendously, as you are having a faster burning process that doesn't start when your piston still has to go a long way up and the combustions, when it starts, works against the rest of the engine. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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cottagecheese
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The call is BS.... period but as an outsider looking in kiss and make up your making yourselves, the outlaw's, and everyone involved or associated look like a$$es. Buff said..right tugger |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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cottage cheese
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Nuff said...sorry |
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Re: illeagle superfarms at mexico
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About right
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Dont sell the ECMTPA SF class short. Even though I don't really care for the class but it darn nice to be able to drive 30mi and see some of the best SF in the country or drive 6hrs to big pulls and see the same tractors be right in there. |
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