ntpa cubic inch limits? November 11, 2013 02:43PM
i get the 505 540 and 640 origins... but where did they come up with 650 and 680?
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 11, 2013 04:33PM
From pullers whining that they needed to have room to rebuild. You have all heard the threats, that those that have these huge engines will quit before they will by the parts to decube. There was a time long ago when there was enough support to lower prostock back to a sane level, but lobbying from the engine builders and at the vote to implement it,,, not a prostock puller would stand up. They all set there looking at the floor. Even the ones that ran small blocks evidently wanted to keep that 619 block-680 limit as an edge when they needed it. At the time the big blocks were not that proven, but only pullers think that way.
The officers at the meeting did everything they could to get those that cried the loudest to speak up, no one would budge.
Thus the green domination in the class.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 12:50AM
You should really ask around about the Big Block/Deere domination theory you have going there. You will be surprised how many Deeres are small block and run just as strong. People have taken the time to build and tune correct, and the parts are readily available.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 05:17AM
In the Pro Stock class the small blocks are quickly becomming extinct. Yes there are still some SBJD out there but less and less each and every year.


Jake Morgan
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Independent Pulling News


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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 01:30PM
so im curious besides copes massey the dominant pros were cambells and the 2 smucker tractors. how many sbjd and how many bbjd?
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 01:42PM
same question for top 5 in ppl
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 02:59PM
And how many besides Cope and the green parade are there left. Maybe I should not have mentioned the 619, and just said 680 cu in. The fact is the Green folks have been able to dominate with that in place. It was even more ridiculous back then when they kept the 680 limit with 90% of the engines based on a 466. Just forget the 619 as the question was 680. I believe the 640 had a lot to do with a certain cat engine. Small block/ big block, doesn't matter, the Deere's still ended up with the advantage,,, Until now,,,, maybe things will start to get interesting again.

I never could understand the logic in having a 680 limit and using a 466 block. Mountain motor mentality I guess.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 03:10PM
In PPL two of the top five were SBJD, the other three were BBJD. A few short years ago all five of those tractors were small blocks, three have converted.

I'm not saying SBJD can't be competitive. I'm not saying there aren't any still running. I'm saying more and more guys are converting over to BBJD from SBJD in the Pro Stock class. Unfortunately many of the SBJD guys are finding the limits to their blocks a little too often. Not long ago the class was less than a handful of BBJD, now the numbers have tipped in favor of the BBJD. That's a significant trend.

As for where the limits came from... some guys had them already built at those measurements so the limits were set to be inclusive instead of telling someone they weren't legal anymore. Regarding 680... if I remember right there was a common bore and piston with a completely stock crank and 407 IH rod that got the 619 to 680 pretty inexpensively and some of the early BBJD guys were setup with that combo. Hopefully someone with a better memory or more knowledge will clarify that or correct me.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 12, 2013 04:20PM
I don't take much stock in points races. John Force just won his umpteenth championship, and only won 4 races out of over 2 dozen. That must mean that Castrol oil is the best-est, or ford decals make your car faster.Bouncing Points can be deceptive, and all you have to do is miss an event or two and your just another competitor. I would never consider points as empirical proof of anything. A competitor can also never win an event and still be the champion in some disciplines. Look at the total picture and see who's running what. There's quite a few reasons why one brand ran off the others. I'm an admirer of green iron but the reasons for their dominance are not because of superior technology. Engine components have no idea whether they are in a green block or not, The block is just a chunk of iron. When you keep rules that only favor 1 brand you get what you have today. It's been nothing but a green race since they failed to clean up their mistake. Things are changing though, whether it's for the better or worse, we'll see.

The 680 engine that Jake mentioned is probably close, yet no one ever saw proof of it. It's always that way, someone claims to have one and we will quit,you'll ruin the class, we'll start our own organization, yada yada yada Ya all know the drill.Yawning

Can you imagine NHRA prostock, with pullers making the rules. Once they go to electronic engine control, they will be dropping the engine limits too. Nascar proved it years ago, as technology advances engine limits have to be tightened up. No one has gotten a tractor to fly yet so I'm not holding my breath that tractor pulling will ever wise up.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 12:45AM
When the new billet blocks come out, the momentum will swing the red way. The top shops already have the parts to make 3500+ HP. Just waiting on a block to stand it. GO D&R and HARTS!!!
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 03:00AM
i saw ntpa rule that billet blocks r limited to 540. think they can compete that under-cubed?
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 07:53AM
Ok here it goes. How many guys have actually been checked? And are they going to start checking prolly not because they are scared to lose one puller!! They would rather check fuel and water that might make 50hp from mild to wild mixtures. The problem with the big block deeres is that no body is checking them either. Does everybody really think they are 680 or less when you can buy a drop in piston and liner kit and you have 680ci. Just because it is tractor pulling doesn't mean there isn't cheaters. But hey it's not cheating unless your caught.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 12:30PM
according to ntpa's website the billet blocks are only in super stock diesel, no pro stock. so pro stock will still be 680. i never knew of any SSD's that were over 540.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 01:24PM
There are just a few DSS over 540CID out there that run any GN events: John Raymond's Smoke N Mirrors is a BBJD and is at the 650 limit. Boxler's have experimented with just about every combo you can think of in a dt466 and I wouldn't be surprised if they ran a 570-600 CID setup. Both those setups are lower pressure, higher volume setups compared with the rest of the class.

Shramek's are developing a 7-cylinder Sisu that has also has the potential to be at the 650 limit.

I wonder what the boost gauges will be on those billet block DSS in a few years?


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 13, 2013 03:15PM
who is going to buy IH billet blocks for SSD class, not to many,only real big $. cost would be way way high and then pay to machine everywere needed make all work! ask John R. or Hans Jr. i know they have gone threw so many blocks and cranks,rods,ect you get it!! you don't even want to know how many (ALOT) . the cube war that has been written in poorly and has ruined alot and hurt more than helped, you can't make a rule that ALL can't use!!! to an (equal anyway)= without having a timebomb and costing pullers$$$$. JDBB and any other BB Blocks have an edge for sure!. the rule writers on that one WTF, they must all run 680+ if they even own one,what a joke.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 14, 2013 07:46AM
Isn't Roy Metz's Mid Life Crisis a BBJD fed by 3 turbos? In the thread on ESP Diesel vs. Alky a couple of posts were to the effect of separating out the diesels and getting rid of the 1 BBJD Diesel, which would have left only 2 or 3 SS Diesels and some Super Farms to make up the new proposed class. Not sure I understood that thinking.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 14, 2013 09:03AM
Yes, Roy has a 680 BBJD with three turbos. There are two other BBJD DSS on the East Coast but I didn't include them in the previous discussion because they don't hit any NTPA GN events.

I forgot to mention that Jeff Demers is also now running a BBJD setup but I can't remember if he is under 540 or if he is over. He might have stayed under 540 so he can run a three stage with a four turbo setup (NTPA only allows two pressure stages if the tractor is over 540, thus John Raymond and Boxlers only have two pressure stages.)


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 17, 2013 04:06AM
Most binders running champtour or gn are672 and the sb deeres are not far behind that real close to 680
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 17, 2013 11:12AM
That is only happening in the ppl.The deeres in ntpa are all sb except for Kingens and Lance
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 17, 2013 12:25PM
The question was why the limit is 680 cu in. The ability to get a SBD close to 680 was not the reason. The small block argument is irrelevant.. The SBD folks just
took the ruling and ran with it. It's a lopsided deal and the Deere boys have benefited from it. It's no secret.
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 17, 2013 02:03PM
How do you feel deeres have the advantage the red tractors are just as big?
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Re: ntpa cubic inch limits? November 18, 2013 06:55AM
One could argue that the SBJD / IH, etc... are bore limited at 680 CID compared to the BBJD.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

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