Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 05:51AM
If a person was starting out and wanted to buold a tractor. With most variables the same like chassis and number of turbos is it cheaper to build and maintain an alcohol engine or a diesel engine? Let's say for the sake of it both having the same cubes.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 06:28AM
Cheap and tractor pulling don't really go together. I am a diesel fan, but if I was to pick everything else the same I would say Alcohol would be the way to build. They seem better to me, better off the line once you get them figured out Seems to me the first 75 to 100 feet makes the pull.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 11:10AM
Very good thread, when it cost 15k just for a new sigma I myself wonder why not switch to alcohol. What maintenance is required on an alcohol fuel system? Change spark plugs? Hopefully some alcohol guys chime in.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 11:35AM
Columbus billit 17mm is $16,500 and Hyper's new pump that came out last year is over $18,000 last time I spoke with Lagod..... Who is quoting 15? Just curious? I know as far as maintenance goes- alcohols change their oil every 3 to 5 passes, and some roll in new rod bearings every oil change.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 11:58AM
I don't pull on that level but wow 18k for just a pump. Going alcohol almost seems like a no brainer.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 12:17PM
I didnt mean to hijack your thread, but it is right in my wheelhouse. My engine program has outgrown the capabilities of my sigma pump. Now I am forced to upgrade to the 17mm plungers. This decision is based on head flow and turbo quality. A crossroads so to speak. Drop huge coin on another diesel pump, or change fuels. I really hope this thread is visited by Mike Sandefur, and Rob Bonino and other guys like that. Jason Yanke would have a wealth of knowledge for you as well as far as maintenance and upkeep.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 07:38AM
I was just curious, I've pulled diesel for 15 years an alcohol just seems alot simpler. Seems like ppl have all sorts of problems with injection pumps and injectors. With alcohol fuel system looks like less maintenance
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 08:39AM
I have always been a devout diesel fan, but as of late I have been asking myself this very same question. I recently spoke with Mark Colberg about what it would take to convert my head over. He seemed excited about the things we talked about and is on board with the project. I have a lengthy e-mail in to the guys at kinsler requesting a quote, and have dropped text messages to a few alcohol guys. I dont expect responses until after the holiday is over.

Here is where I am at with the whole deal, and please correct me if I am wrong. I have heard a top of the line fuel system for an alcohol is around 7-9 thousand. Thats half the price of an injection pump. Lines for a superstock are another thousand, and injectors are 600 each. Seems to me, a guy is spending 25,000 to put fuel into his engine when he could make more horsepower with a different fuel type that costs much less to set up.

Alcohol engines run cooler and the cylinder pressure is much lower as well. Again- this is just what I believe to be true, not gospel. I hope some of the alcohol guys jump in on this thread and encourage us! What I really want to know is where is the best place to get a fuel system. Looking for value in quality parts. Also what differences exist in the alcohol turbos versus the diesels? I have a three charger setup. Two stage. A pair of 4.1 billits on top of a ball bearing prostock charger on the bottom. All three turbos run 32 housings, and the top two are g trims. What do alcohol guys run?
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 09:25AM
Have you called or texted Bryan Conner from Mo.. Bryan has helped me alot. I bought my fuel system used and he helped me get it set up from there. He also helped me with my turbos. He can get you the parts to set it up and they DO work. And the value is extremely good as well as his knowledge.
Don't forget, you will also need a good ignition system. I run an MSD 8 with a pro power coil and MSD distributor. Plug wires are another thing. I won't use any thing but MSDs'.
I love the diesel also. It's a shame that the prices for those components are so high.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 10:40AM
Yes Supertiquer. I am waiting for my buddy to send me Brians cell number. I want to run my turbo setup past him first, and get his opinion on them. If my turbos will work, I will buy a fuel system from him and list my sigma and injectors. My friend has an msd 8 box sitting around. If you want to go above and beyond- you could message me the part numbers of the pieces you are using on your electronics. I will search them and figure out what the cost is going to be....:-P
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 11:37AM
No problem but I will have to do it from the office and it will be a while before I get in there. You will know it's me by my e-mail address. I also have Bryans number. Give me a couple hours.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 02:36PM
Do not have a alcohol vs diesel conversation with Bryan. Bryan has never really gave a Diesel a fair shake. Talk to Ernie he has lots of experience with both. He will tell the pros and cons of both.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 11:56PM
I will try to call you later today. With a few mods to the system it should be fine. Depends on a few other things. We can discuss later. I would not let the money sway you one way or another on fuel choice. Go with what you like and enjoy it to what ever level your money can keep up. I switched from diesel to alky many years ago thinking the cost would be lower. Still could not give you a good awnser. The only good awnser would be that i would not want to own a gn level dss because it seems like it costs more to keep going than an alky ss. (When everything is going good on both)
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 02:53PM
It all depends on what class you are looking to run. They are all expensive. Most of the hard parts like pistons,rods, crank, block etc are about the same either way. Fuel system is aprox 5-8k for alky. Ignition can run aprox 3-6k. Turbo setup costs depend on how many and setup. A very common 3turbo setup is 2 4.1s with 48 exh and a 4.25 or bigger with 58/69 hsg. Should run between 10-14k to do.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 25, 2014 03:23PM
Hey Kevin. I value your opinion, and appreciate your input. I have two 4.1 billit holsets with 32 exhaust housings around g trim wheels, and a Columbus ball bearing prostock charger for a base. Can this two stage three charger system work for an alkie, or do I need to start over with turbos. I really dont want to change turbos and plumbing very much. They were a significant investment. Makes a billit pump seem cheap. Neil 608-317-7321. Call any time. I would appreciate it.
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 26, 2014 02:15AM
WOW reading this thread just showed me how far things have gone since we activley pulled a ProStock back in the late 80s early 90s. Such a sad tail of technology pushing things so perfection while price pushes out anyone that doesnt have huge deep pockets. Its really disappointing. Being a "watcher" now what i see is the DSS classes will eventually go away from Diesel all together becuase no one or only a very few can afford it to be competitive. While I LOVE seeing the smoke blow high into the sky theres no way anyone can say this is a way to go.

Its really easy to see why the pro-Farm, Super Farm, Limited classes are popular. It also seems to point to the classes with good rules, tight regulation and limts will become the classes people will gravatate to if you want to keep the fun "reasonably affordable" (Take that with a grain of salt). While I love High Horsepower wheel churning tractors I see these classes going away in the near future. $50,000 foir a fuel system to run a DSS tractor is not good for the sport in any manner.

Red712
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Re: Alcohol or Diesel December 27, 2014 11:21PM
Although I've sold the Jessie tractor and am not currently pulling. I think this is a good topic and deserves to be addressed. I started out with a diesel and had good success with a championship reward for our efforts. I was influenced by the alcohol tractors I pulled against and switched. The results was the same with a championship effort. The difference was in the amount of maintenance necessary. Time in the shop in preparation is still and will always be necessary in any racing effort but it just seems to be more fun with an alcohol burner. With the cooling nature of alcohol, lower pressures, etc. and a little bit of a slow, conservative approach to power development. It is a more durable, consistent power source. As far as missing "the smoke". If you have time to watch your smoke going down the track you are probably not working hard enough at your driving skills. With alcohol, throttle, clutch, and launce control become more critical and need attention paid to them. There are some great suppliers available to the "spirit" pullers out there: Mark and Jason Hootman, Terry and Josh Blackbourn, Kevin Campbell, to mention a few that gave me parts, service, equipment, and information that were of immeasurable help and largely responsible for any success I was able to achieve. Don't try to reinvent the whole wheel. Their experience will pay dividends. The sound of a good running alcohol tractor either at idle or full song still make the hair on my arms stand up at the shows. John Weidman
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