Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 25, 2016 03:13PM
Doug, has there recently been consideration for updating the turbo on Outlaw prostocks? Don't get me wrong they put on a great show and are reliable as intended, but time and technology keep marching on, I would think the next step needs to happen sooner or later with other associations achieving 3000+ hp as they say it would be nice to see the bar raised some, however as I mentioned I'm not taking anything away from the current tractors and not trying to start a bash fest on the subject, just looking into the future. I also understand that this is more than likely decided by a class vote and it is unlikely that the majority would like to spend more cash to upgrade. Thanks in advance !
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 26, 2016 04:06AM
Thanks for the interest in this class. Very good questions! Our Pro Stock Tractor class was in trouble and seeing a decline in numbers about 10 years ago and down to only 5 or 6 pulling vehicles and promoters were starting to drop the class because of low numbers. I even dropped the number of hooks down by about 10 hooks trying to keep them on the track. That was a time when turbo were making 100 to 110 lbs. of boost and you had a lot of turbo failures that were knocking tractors out of competition. Some for only an event or two with lots of turbo parts going in the engine. Most competitors were having to roll in a set of bearings about every 3 runs. Turbos were in the $12,000 range with new ones coming out 2 or 3 times a year. Competitors started lifting heads, splitting blocks and usually with this major breakage you lost that tractor for the rest of the year. We lost two tractors early in the season with this kind of breakage. This class was going in the wrong direction for us. So 8 years ago I decided to go to an $8500 class turbo that was a more reliable turbo in the 90 to 100 lb. boost range. There were better turbos out there that would make more boost, but we were after more reliability. This stopped the breakage and evened the class up with more even competition and multiple winners. Since that time as technology improved with bearings, head tie downs, etc. we have had 2 turbo upgrades, one at $1500 5 years ago and another 3 years ago at $2500 and are now in that 100 to 110 lb boost range and 2400 horsepower. For the last two years we have not lost a tractor to breakage and this is with about 30 hooks each year for this class. Counting the original turbo cost and 2 upgrades a lot of these pullers are still running the same turbo now going on 9 years at a total cost $12,500. That is a total turbo expenditure of about $1400 per year. All these things lead to a healthy class with more vehicles and since that time we are now up to 16 tractors and 3 new ones being built for this year. With these spending limits competitors are moving up to this class from Limited Pro Stock class. The class average in 2015 was 10.1 per hook with 28 hooks and 283 trips down the track with no major breakage. In the first 11 hooks we had 9 different winners and 5 were JD and 4 were IH. Over the last 6 years 3 John Deere and 3 International have won the Points Championship. This year with our new “Pull-off for the Championship” the top 4 in points wasn’t decided until the final day of the final weekend. Dirtsligin Deere won the Championship with 986 points taking 4 wins, 4 seconds and 5 thirds. Rut Cutter had 981 points with 5 wins, 4 seconds and 4 thirds, Wampuscat had 975 points with 4 wins, 2 seconds and 5 thirds, Gone had 974 points with 1 win, 6 seconds and 7 thirds. It just doesn’t get much closer than that and the entertainment value of this class is great. With the rules we have in place we just want to stay away from the all big block John Deere cookie cutter class. I went to Louisville for the first time in 5 years and was disappointed in the Pro Stock class. These guys with over 3000 horsepower cannot hook them up and it ended up a numbers game. We had 3 Outlaw tractors go to Louisville and all they did was bolt on a better turbo and turn up fuel and water and all three finished 5th less than a foot making the finals. You see this a little at outside pulling with tractors not able to hook up at our events with 2400 horsepower. You see that a lot at PPL and NTPA events with 3000 plus horsepower. We can go 340 feet faster than they can cover 320 feet and that makes for a better show for our fans. So right now we wouldn’t change a thing and there may be another update or turbo change in the future. Time will tell. I think different than some but the first thing I would do if I were PPL or NTPA is put 30 inch rubber on those Pro Stock Tractors. 24 inch rubber was not made for 3000 plus horsepower, even at 10,000 lbs. It is made for pro field, 466, Super Farm, Limited Pro Stock. Look at Super Stock and Modified Tractors with that kind of power or more, they run 30 inch rubber. That would help them utilize that power with a better hole shot and more ground speed that would really help the entertainment value of that class. My 2 cents. Happy Easter to everyone. Thanks, Doug
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 26, 2016 04:47AM
Mr Roberts:

Fantastic reply and well done with your stats to back up the reasoning behind why you are doing this the way you do. I love pulling and our local is always trying to find ways to keep cost contained. I am firm in the thought that the cost of this sport to particapate will be its undoing if not somehow controlled yet allows a good show and competition is on a high level. No fan is willing to pay $10-15-$25+ to watch a show that has 5-6 tractors and 1-2 break as opposed to a class with 10+ and all make good runs each event.

Look what happened at Keystone recently with 2 tractors "Spilling their guts out" on the track, we all know the money cost and those 2 tractors are gone for the season in all likelyhood.

Just my 2 cents...red712
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 28, 2016 08:28AM
Well thought out answer and difference things work for different association.
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 28, 2016 09:31AM
If I may ask what is the turbo they use ?
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 30, 2016 03:35AM
4.8 hyper according to rules on their site
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 30, 2016 09:49AM
Time to step it up a bit.
A top 4.1 might embarrass them.
Time to leave the 90's.
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug March 31, 2016 02:22PM
I'll wait to see that happen.
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 01, 2016 01:20AM
Don't know about embarrassing but 3 years ago the pro stock class let a few ppl 4.1s hook a couple times and they were right in the mix needless to say now they won't allow the 4.1s to hook one would think with the latest advances to the turbos and pumps they might be right with the strongest running pros today just my opinion
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 01, 2016 05:15AM
Anything can happen in pulling and I have seen 466 beat SF, SF beat LPS and LPS beat PS. Its not going to happen often but sometimes the stars align just right with marginal track, draw number, etc. I have seen lesser tractors in the class they belong in win one every once in a while for same reason. As far as 4.1 beating our Pro Stocks it is possible with the right circumstances, but I would sure hate to run a full circuit like that being that much an under dog. Could make for a long summer. We had one of our Pro Stock tractors (Rut Cutter) hook at PPL event in Sedalia and it came within a foot of winning and I know Hurricane Allis was there. So it is not always the most horsepower. Our PS class is actually a 4.9 turbo now after updates and about 2500 horsepower were Hurricane with no turbo limits has to be at least 3000 or more horsepower. Now our Pro Stocks hook 30 times each year without working on them where as the Hurricane Allis probably hasn't had that many hooks. I sure the fans could not tell the difference between the tractors finishing 1 foot apart. So that is why we like it were we are at in that class. That event only had 4 Pro Stock Tractors were we have 12 to 14 all the time with three more getting built for a total of 19 competing. I am sure if you asked the fans if they would rather see 14 or 4 at event we like where we are at. Thanks, Doug
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 01, 2016 11:19PM
There were only 4 of the prostocks at Sedalia that year, but it was not a sanctioned class. They just invited a few for exhibition.
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 02, 2016 02:25PM
Does Doug still have the old barnyard beast?
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 03, 2016 02:02PM
Seems like you have a good thing going so i would say let it alone
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Re: Outlaw turbo question for Doug April 05, 2016 06:57AM
That was the Western Series not the Champions Tour. That is why only 4 tractors and two were Outlaw tractors.
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