Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 07:35AM
As per Jake's message, and following his logic, from 2009, (see below), shouldn't a Light Limited Superstock tractor be allowed to run a 5.9L Cummins on alcohol without a bunch of hassle?

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"I also simplified the list it to make it easier for everyone to read. The list is straightforward and it's very similar to the rules we’ve had for years, but it allows people the ability to move backwards with the sheetmetal for their given brand.

I honestly believe this list is actually what a vast majority of people favor (the poll shows this to be the case). I also believe there are many who don’t think people will cross breed or that don’t quite understand what that actually means. First, it will happen, and second, it means a Ford hood on a John Deere tractor, it means a John Deere hood on an IH, etc… It will happen, and it will hurt the classes that allow it.

What I also did was spell out what I think should be a legal engine. The NTPA used the term “legal block” but I haven’t seen where they specified what exactly that phrase constitutes. They haven’t defined a “legal block” in a clear and concise way. As the NTPA stands right now, any “legal block” on the GN circuit is any Ag block in the DSS, LSS and OSS classes. It’s somewhat undefined in the other tractor classes.

Here’s my simplified and revised list:

1. AC block (including: AC, Detroit 40 Series, Navistar, etc...) any AC, Deutz Allis, AGCO-Allis, or AGCO hood
2. Case block any Case or CaseIH hood
3. Cockshutt block (including: Cat, Hercules, Continental, etc...) any Cockshutt, White or Agco-White hood
4. Deere block any Deere hood
5. Deutz block any Deutz, Deutz Allis, Deutz Fahr, or AGCO hood
6. Fendt block (including: Deutz, Man, etc...) any Fendt hood
7. Fiat block any Heston hood
8. Ford block any Ford or New Holland hood
9. IH (including: Farmall, Hypermax, etc...) any IH or CaseIH hood
10. Massey block (including: Perkins, Continental Sisu, etc...) any Massey hood
11. Minneapolis Moline block any MM, White or AGCO-White hood
12. Oliver block (including Cat, Hercules, Waukesha, etc...) any Oliver, White or Agco-White hood
13. Valtra block (including Sisu) any Valtra hood
14. White block (including Cat) any White, AGCO-White, Oliver, MM, or Cockshutt hood
Special Engines (these are included in the list above, but they are clarifications to avoid confusion)
1. 456 Genesis block any NH, Ford, IH or CaseIH hood
2. 5.9L/6.7L Cummins block any AGCO-series (including Oliver, MM, AC, etc...), any CaseIH-series (including: Case, IH, Farmall, etc...), any McCormick hood, any Landini hood
3. 8.3L Cummins block any AGCO-series (including Oliver, MM, AC, etc...), any CaseIH-series (including: Case, IH, Farmall, etc...), any NH-series hood (including Ford)


Owner must satisfy any one of the following requirements for the block to be deemed legal in any of the tractor divisions:
1.Owner must be able to prove the block was used in a commercially available tractor (owner must provide specific make and model of that tractor).... or

2.Owner must be able to prove that the block is a licensed OEM replacement for a tractor (i.e. IH running a OEM approved Hypermax block)... or

3.Owner must be able to prove that the block will accept an unmodified stock crank from a tractor of the same manufacturer as the original block for that brand (i.e. using the 474 Ford block inplace of the 401 Ford block in a Ford or NH hooded tractor)


If any of the above are satisfied the block will be deemed legal for that brand, and the hood combination can be chosen from the above table.

This will allow everyone to move forward or backwards with their hoods. It will allow for some very extreme variety without crossing brand lines, and without crossing heritage brand lines... meaning you cannot put an AC 426 under an Oliver hood, even though they are both now owned by AGCO.

If anyone else has engines or brands that should be added please let me know and I'll update the list and include them.



Jake Morgan

Owner
www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News"
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 01:51PM
Barkers Rhapsody 4.1 is 8.3 Cummins I like it lets people choose other color and have a decent motor to use. I don't think JD should run Cummins only came in 4x4 tractors. It does suck for John Deere guys, I'm sorry don't blame us blame Deere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2017 01:52PM by BlackTornado466.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 02:06PM
I already have a ford 5000 rear end with 7910 sheet metal with an alky 5.9 in it.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 11:04PM
Ya, you guys are right, we should let anybody run the cummins in LLSS......heck, lets just cut to the chase and let any sheetmetal/any engine combo go.........maybe even let V8 automotive in......superchargers.....nitro fuel...

Why stop? Why have rules at all?
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 12:13AM
Why not we already have classes that are just about all IH 466 or All BBJD so yes llss can be all dt360 and 5.9l cummins.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 02:47AM
Why not? 5.9 and 8.3 are the next 466 of my generation. It's up to the person and they club that they run in just like David said.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 11:15PM
There's enough engine combinations for Deere and IH for the LLSS class. Yes Cummins came in a maxxum 5120-40 then use that rear. Same as case only came in the 1896 and 2096 and use that rear. Some clubs are only allowing Cummins in certain apps. So check first
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 11:25PM
The way the current rules seem to read, anything goes as long as it's under the current company umbrella. It seems to work and makes things more cost effective and easy. If you don't like it stay out of our class.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 14, 2017 11:34PM
So we want a all Cummins class because it's easy fix?
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 12:24AM
It can't be a all Cummins class according to the rules.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 01:37AM
Not every local club will run the national rules for the LLSS class. That's why I said check before you run with a local clubs. Cummins has its place in the class , just not in all of the tractors family tree
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 01:10PM
Well the llss class has already strayed from the intentions the class was meant to be so Earl its a little late to go back to the rear end engine rules that you mentioned although I used to be with you there just wasn't enough of you and I to go around to keep it strait up and brand loyal .Now my opinion would be let a JD have the 5.9 if they want it or anything as long as the cubes are met and just go ahead with the any sheet metal rule the collors in in the class would be end less .Ive done pictured in my mind my red tractor painted orange with Russian 500 Belarus sheet metal on it and the name would be the USSR EXPRESS
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 15, 2017 03:18PM
The current 6.7 liter engine in the New Holland and Caseih tractors are a joint venture built engine of Iveco and cummins. It looks like a rear valve train cummins engine with a 5.2 stroked crank same bore as 5.9 and the head looks identicial to cummins. The 5.9 cummins industrial engine that were in the ford f-550-650 trucks has a Brazilian made rear valve train cummins engine that looks the same as the New Holland engine but at 5.9 liters. So I am thinking it would be a ok engine to use.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 16, 2017 02:48AM
If these new FPT-cummins build engines start begin use in the llss or other classes, then will EPA step in and regulate how it is use because of the emission regulations that are build in these engines?
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 17, 2017 05:14AM
No, because it is off road, the same as the diesel trucks.
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Re: Should the 5.9L Cummins be allowed in a LLSS NH? March 16, 2017 04:38AM
This is correct. 4.09 bore 5.2stroke. The block is the same as the block used in the pickups. It uses rear gear train and a rear gear crankshaft. You can take the engine and swap it front gear train and pick your choice of crank from a 5.9 or 6.7. So not sure why you couldn't use it in a new Holland tractor since it actually came in a tractor.
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