MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS

MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 19, 2018 02:45PM

Lewis Conner

Registered: 10/30/2018
Posts: 749

MINI Rods put on a great show one of the most exiting hooks i saw one came loose and went air borne out the end of the track at the Wayne County Fair lucky know one was hurt.It is understandable therers not many hooks for them because of the need for a extra sled.Now wouldnt it be great to start a compact tractor class of some kind like in Eourope around the same weight to be able to offer two classes to help justify the use of a extra sled i believe there would be a lot of interest in such a class and be a crowd pleaser

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2018 11:28PM by Dick Morgan.

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 19, 2018 03:15PM
RW IH 1568 Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149	We pull compacts here in Perry and Morgan counties. Tug and transfer. My son put a turbo on his. They have a blast with those little tractors! rw Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2018 10:44PM by Dick Morgan. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 06:20AM
bandit496 Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 495	Not sure where you are from, but NTPA GN minis have 20 or 21 hooks, Region 2 minis have 19 hooks, Wisconsin state has half a dozen or so, Michigan has 5 state events, PPL has about 10 hooks on the Champions Tour, and then there are the brush pullers. Not sure how many more mini hooks a person would want to see.. JW Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 06:35AM

Iowa Puller

There is a class of compact tractors starting up in Iowa. There is two or three being built now. They will basically be 2/3 sized LLSS's. Here is the basic rules

ENGINE

Diesel - 250 Twin Turbos

Spark - 250 Single Turbo

TURBO

2.36” (60mm)

CHASSIS

This class is for stock appearing tractors with full hood, grill and side panels. Must be recognizable as an actual production tractor. Engine must be covered by hood and/or side shields

Maximum length 9 feet from center of rear axle to forward most point.

Maximum wheelbase 84".

TIRES

18.4-16.1

WEIGHT

3000-3500 lbs

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 06:48AM
Bryan Lively Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579	Iowa Puller, are engines limited in any way beyond CID? There are some pretty salty combinations that could be built at that size...very interesting! Bryan Lively - Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 07:12AM

truckingeorge

Registered: 01/20/2017
Posts: 5

Here are the complete rules. There is, for sure, two coming out of our shop. A diesel and an alcohol.

ENGINE

1. 250 Cubic Inch - 1% tolerance given
Diesel - Limit 2 Turbos
Spark - Limit 1 Turbo

2. NO Intercooler and/or Aftercoolers

FUEL

1. Methanol, E85, Gasoline, or Diesel fuel. No secondary source of fuel (liquid or gas) or oxygen enhancer allowed.

2. Water injection allowed.

TURBO

1. Turbocharger(s) shall not exceed a 2.36”(60mm) inlet measured at the face of the wheel and behind any MAP groove. No “step down” intake housing or wheel of any kind allowed. The intake wheel must protrude into the maximum allowed inlet dimensions at least 1/8”. MAF (slots) no wider than 0.200”. NO forward facing MAF. NO Supercharged or N/A engines

2. Exhaust must exit upward. Exhaust must have two (2) 3/8” bolts mounted in a cross pattern as close to the turbocharger as possible to prevent broken parts from exiting.

CHASSIS

1. This class is for stock appearing tractors with full hood, grill and side panels. Must be recognizable as an actual production tractor. Engine must be covered by hood and side shields.

2. Maximum length 9 feet from center of rear axle to forward most point. Excluding tow hook.

3. Maximum wheelbase - 84"

4. All driveshafts & universal joints must be covered 360 degrees .

5. All tractors must have wide front axle.

6. All tractors must have roll cage (minimum of a two loops) & 5 point harness is required.

HITCH

1. Maximum hitch height 13”.

TIRES

1. 18.4-16.1

WEIGHT

1. 3000 lbs (Subject to Change)

SAFETY

1. Complete fire suit required.

2. All competitors will wear a helmet.

3. All tractors will have steel and/or aluminum clutch and flywheel assembly. Flywheel and clutch must be wrapped with steel shield, safety blanket and/or steel bellhousing. SFI recommended but not required. NO CAST IRON.

4. A white automotive quality light, minimum of 2” in diameter, must be directly mounted above or below the safety kill switch at the rear of the tractor. The light is to be activated by a shift lever such that it will only be illuminated when the tractor is reverse.

5. Must have at least 2 ½ lb. Fire extinguisher and be convenient to the operator.

6. Must have “Dead Man” throttle with two return springs that automatically returns to idle when released by operator.

7. Diesel Engines- Must have a spring loaded closing mechanism air shutoff. To be deemed acceptable, when activated. The shutoff mechanism must prevent boost of engine. The kill switch must be mounted securely to the back of the tractor and have a 2 inch diameter ring (minimum 1/8“ thick). Operator must also be able to operate from the driver seat.

8. Spark Engines - Must have ignition kill switch. The kill switch must be mounted securely to the back of the tractor and have a 2 inch diameter ring (minimum 1/8“ thick).

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 09:11AM
RYAN68 Registered: 12/09/2008 Posts: 513	Which club is going to offer this class? Will a normal mini rod sled stop these or do they need a actual IronBoy type sled? --- Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 12:01PM
Truck puller	shouldn't take much to stop one with only 500hp Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 12:44PM
Lewis Conner Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749	I think those rules would make for a neat class we dont have the mini rods much in KY.Which would make the class hard to get started here because of the sled issue Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 01:05PM
Bryan Lively Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579	As wide open as the rules seem to be, honestly 500hp is on the low end of things with a 250ci engine, on methanol and efi, which appears to be legal. This sounds even more interesting and fun all the time. Bryan Lively - Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 01:45PM
Lewis Conner Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749	A little 221 6cyl from a 460 IH would be a screamer .But really i see the rules what engines are allowed is it any engine as long as its not over 250 cubes agg engines or what ? Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 01:47PM
Bryan Lively Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579	Lewis a decubed LS would seem to be legal... Bryan Lively - Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 02:02PM

sfd823

Registered: 08/02/2008
Posts: 236

Quote
Bryan Lively
As wide open as the rules seem to be, honestly 500hp is on the low end of things with a 250ci engine, on methanol and efi, which appears to be legal. This sounds even more interesting and fun all the time.

Seriously. My first thought would be a smallblock V8 knocked back to 250, though something from the rice burner world would probably be the way to go. With the aftermarket support on the shelf that could be a insane combination. 1000 horse would be a walk in the park.

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 02:08PM
Truck puller	60mm turbo won't be anywhere near 1000hp on any fuel. Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 02:05PM

Truck puller

a diesel with a 60mm turbo won't make a whole lot of power. alcohol will make alittle more but still will be rather boring to watch. this class should be at a lawn mower pull not a tractor pull. 3000lbs is way too heavy and would be rather boring to watch with such low horsepower. I would say 1500lbs max should be the limit or the turbo needs to be a lot bigger. If the class is at 3000lbs I would go with a 4.1 turbo for a limit.

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 03:26PM
ol George Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 633	apparently none of you fellas ever watch f1 racing maybe your box needs to be a little bigger. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 11:51PM
Truck puller	apparently neither do you as F1 has no limit on turbo size like this class does with 60mm. They also make less than 800hp. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 23, 2018 03:12AM
truckingeorge Registered: 01/20/2017 Posts: 5	MAPA is going to let us hook with them. We believe a standard mini sled should stop them. Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 11:14PM

Highwayman64

Registered: 01/01/2018
Posts: 66

I think it is a valid point in a certain area, as the argument can be made of how many more classes do we need in pulling. However in NY we have only one hook available to us that hooks minis and thats a GN event in Langford. Last year we went to a couple PPL events and ran NTPA Region II to hook our mini. Not that we didn't have fun and enjoy the people everywhere but we literally had no where else to go in our home state of NY. We would love nothing more than to pull and support our local ESP club here but they have no mini sled or interest in getting one for one class it seems. Maybe if there were a couple classes that could hook to the mini sled it would make it more palatable for a club to host this type of situation. NY, Pa, and maybe Ohio I believe could support it I think.....

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 05:50PM
HOW MANY MORE??????????	How many new tractor classes are really needed in pulling? If I were to do it all over again, I'd build a two wheel drive truck!!!!!!!!! Seems to be the only class that no other classes are made for! Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 21, 2018 08:18PM
Pointer Outer	Actually, the 2wd class evolved from the single engine modified class. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 22, 2018 04:24AM
Joey	I see some of the "Small" new little tractor class units pull with some Garden type pullers,so small sled for sure,big poer to weight ratio,good running tractors,not sure of rules and turbos,but they run good. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 22, 2018 02:21PM
HOW MANY MORE???????????	Quote Pointer Outer Actually, the 2wd class evolved from the single engine modified class. And there is still only ONE 2wd truck class. Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 23, 2018 03:52AM

S'no Farmer

Registered: 04/04/2008
Posts: 631

In truth there are lots of TWD classes. TWD trucks started out just like any other class, started with stock trucks and progressed from there. If you go into Ky the are lots of different levels of TWD trucks. They run mini trucks, pro street,pro stock,modified as well as the open class and each time the classes changed it was just like the tractor classes. Someone wanted to go back to a less expensive class so a new lesser class was started with more restricted rules,sound familiar? BTW I'm not so sure I would say that the TWD class started with the mod tractors,I watched the class grow from stock trucks to what it is today and most all of these guys progressed from trucks not tractors. Granted later on as the open trucks were developed a lot of former mod tractor guys changed over to trucks because they didn't want to add engines to keep up with that rat race.

S'no Farmer

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 28, 2018 12:54PM
What are talking about.	The TWD class did not come from the single engine mod. It came fro TWD trucks. Might go talk to Sullivan's if you disagree. They were amongst the first to start the class in Kentucky. They started out from stock chassis and stock engines. Wasnt a tractor part around. Till this day isnt hardly if any tractor parts in them. You really need to do some reading up on pulling history. Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 22, 2018 08:34AM

Logan Thomas

Registered: 02/23/2017
Posts: 137

Since Decision Maker Inc. purchased the Split Decision mini sled from Bauer Built last winter, we have put it through its paces with a wide variety of classes that NASOA has approved for level 5 sleds.

The first event we ever done with it was the 2018 Keystone Nationals, we ran Interstate big block & small block minis both at 1,850 lbs as well as the 4,500 lb small block 4x4 trucks. In the small block mini class there were several small tire minis including two with V6 chevy engines, these little tractors are normally run with garden tractor sleds in our area, and we were quite impressed with how well the little tractors were able to handle the sled. With further adjustments to the sled, the V6 tractors can put on a very nice little show.

The Interstate 4,500 trucks are very similar to our 4,000 lb light 4wds in NC, and the sled handles both classes with ease, light easy takeoffs, fast ground speeds, quick stops. We have hooked small block 5,500 lb econo mods with the sled & also been very impressed at the quality of the show they can present hooked to the mini sled.

On the extreme end of the spectrum, we have hooked 8,500 lb hot street diesel trucks to it in a situation where the big sled at the event had broke down. It took a couple extra weights but the sled held the trucks under 320', with one truck actually carrying overdrive through the middle of the track, making incredible ground speed. Also at the same event we hooked 6,500 lb big block 4x4 trucks which make upwards of 800 hp and held them impressively too. The problem with hooking bigger classes has been the speed & throwing the pullers off on gearing as the mini sled is much easier out of the hole & through the middle of the track.

Of course the 2,050 blown minis are what Vaughn & company designed the sled for & it does an excellent job with them. We originally thought the class would be very touchy to set the sled for but the balance is so good & the stopping power so strong that our expectations were wrong, the sled is very user friendly to the operator for all classes.

In the future we plan to hook some more different classes including stock antiques up to 10,000 lbs & some 12 mph tractors up to the 7,000 lb range including light hot farm type tractors. Me personally, I would love to tie onto a good class of these 2wd mini trucks which seem to be gaining popularity but there are none in our east coast area.

I believe that we may get to the point where we can run an entire show with the mini sled for the local level shows & brush pulls.

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 22, 2018 09:33AM
plum krazy	Put another "pan" behind the sled,use for bigger stuff,you will be surprised as to how much a 4 - 6 x 2 foot pan with air bags will do,or use slow release grousers in front pan on the rear to slow mid track Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 22, 2018 05:27PM
HP	Logan, sure the mini sled would stop NTPA GN 4wd trucks too! Might hurt their feelings, but it would be a fantastic ride! N/A single engine modifieds too ! Might be the light weight 2wd class hasn't taken off out east is because of sleds! The mini sled would be perfect for that class!!! Reply Quote

Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 23, 2018 03:27AM

truckingeorge

Registered: 01/20/2017
Posts: 5

If the engine is 250 cubes it is legal. Agricultural, Industrial, Marine, Automotive, Etc... With a 60mm turbo it they should be 700-800hp. I would guess that a 3000 lbs, driving and movable weight will be more important than horsepower.

An IH 221 would be a great option too. We are building two right now (slowly). One will have a Ford 240 six cylinder on methanol and the other is a Ford 242 Diesel . We are using Muncie 465's and Rockwell rear ends in them.

There is a great showing of 3800 TWD's in Southern Iowa and Northern Missouri. They use the a full size sled and on some tracks they really struggle. We are hoping that another light weight class may show the ever growing need for a sled similar to the Iron Boy.

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	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 23, 2018 04:35AM
Joey	Baumgarts have one really nice to start,as does Track Patrol in Wi. Reply Quote

	Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS December 28, 2018 03:10PM
Ballizztic	Truck puller. With all do respect if these tractors are making 500-600 horse it will be a fun to watch class. The too hot to farm tractors in our area are making that same horse power. They are hooked to a big sled and are gaining in popularity! A mini tractor pulling that horse power with a mini sled will be interesting to watch. Reply Quote

Re:NEW CLASS OPTIONS January 02, 2019 03:52AM

PULLMX

Registered: 10/18/2011
Posts: 262

This is a picture of a John Deere 4300 Diesel Pulling Tractor that Tim & I built back in 2001. It was close to the same rules as listed. I used a 3 cylinder tractor engine out of a Ford 3600. Crower slipper clutch, TRB Gearbox & 18.4 Mini Rod tires. I think it weighted around 2300# . It was a lot of fun to Pull and had a great time. I decided to build a Super Farm in 2003 and sold this tractor to Ferd Herzog in Pennsylvania, who still pulls it today.

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	Re: Re:NEW CLASS OPTIONS January 02, 2019 08:53AM
Lewis Conner Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749	Thats a sharp little tractor how many horses Reply Quote

	Re: Re:NEW CLASS OPTIONS January 02, 2019 09:46AM
PULLMX Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262	Never had on the dyno. We estimated between 400 to 500 Hp. We had a Dodge Cummins turbo and Bosch A pump, both from CDS on it. Reply Quote

	Re: Re:NEW CLASS OPTIONS January 02, 2019 02:57PM
east ohio mini puller	I kid you not,the deere owners told our group that ntpa wont let them hook in the gn mini class cause itll make the 2800 hp minis look dumb,i doubt it is anywhere near 400 hp.it gets a 2 inch hitch allowance when they hook with us,and a 100 weight allowance,and cant compete with the f.i big blocks Reply Quote

Re: Re:NEW CLASS OPTIONS February 01, 2019 06:10AM

ROBBY FAGUNDES

We have been doing all these classes for about 8 years on the west coast with a "mini sled" Logan Thomas witnessed it back when he delivered a sled out west.I do use 46 inch chain for all classes but minis.Have hooked a pro mod 4x4 at 6200 lbs with the track in my favor and boy did it hurt his feelings along with 6000 lbs superstock class they run and country mods at 5500 lbs a lot of fun and very exciting to watch I hook them a lot along with the 8000 lbs diesel 4x4 class to me better show with smaller sled most the time but I guess crying is part of tractor pulling which happens alot except for 1 (guess what place)which even happens with "big" sled it really is a ego thing the big and mini sled part of it, but it is done safely. going to what Logan said about the gearing is same thing out here they don't want to walk it out cause it hurts there distance on most tracks so they go to there rev limiter. my mini sled only weighs 17000 which is little lighter then bauers from what I hear is 21000

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Re: MINI RODS PROBLEM WITH PULLING AND NEW CLASS OPTIONS February 01, 2019 05:21AM

Wisconsin minis

Tri-county puller is wisconsin has what they call a prostock compact diesel minrod class. The rules are very similar to what your talking about. 4 cylinder 250 cubic inch limit with 1 turbo (any size) no intercooler/aftercooler, water injection is allowed, 2500 pounds, stock appearing hood and grill, 18.4-16.1 tires. there's 2 already out and it sounds like at least 3 more are in the process of being built. ones claiming 1000+ horsepower and 1300 torque. any questions you have could probably be answered on their website http://www.tricountypullersinc.com/rules.html also you can call or email them, they have been very helpful with my questions.

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