10:40:49am, Friday, April 26, 2024
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PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Just Sayin'
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Ok here's your opportunity. Give your pros and cons of each if you so choose. But be specific or give examples. Tracks? Venues? Pay? Competition? Rules? Travel? Schedule? More than one answer if fine, but there are a ton of opinions flowing in thread after thread, Give your point of view - are you a puller or a fan?
My viewpoint is as a longtime fan of pulling. NTPA - Pros are bigger events, easier for me to travel to - Cons are regional competitor numbers are shrinking especially as the season goes longer, television production could be better and I believe there's enough content for a 60 minute show weekly.. PPL - Pros are probably the best produced program to watch as a viewer, (from what I hear) better pay for pullers, leading to bigger numbers of competitors - Cons are that many events aren't in my area and it appears the events are a bit smaller scale, they appear not to be neutral - saying, it looks like some are favored (sponsorship, only allowing their sponsors to be mentioned in interviews - yeah, fans notice those small things) OUTLAWS - I can't say that I've attended an Outlaw event. The only taste of Outlaws I get is by attending the NFMS each year, so I can't comment there. OSTPA - Pros are they are pretty much in my backyard, they tend to have decent numbers for the most part, have a great announcer (Hogg Hastings, I think?) - Cons - they have a poorly run show: they rarely start on time, the track isn't usually very good (no matter the venue), they take WAYY too long between hooks OK, you're turn. Light me up - 
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
My question is: after than Bowling Green what is the next largest show NTPA has? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2020 01:34AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Just Sayin'
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Dick,
I assume you're meaning "other than" BG.... I think I would consider Tomah & Rockwell pretty large events. The Enderle Pull-Off is pretty good size as well. I like attending the pulls in Napoleon, Ohio and Brandenburg, Kentucky. Maybe my description of "large event" is also based on crowd, not just the venue itself. Fort Recovery has a good draw (with PPL as well).. I know the event in Hutchinson is also a good event (never attended, but watch online) |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Fan 2
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ppl has a terrible draw at Fort Recovery! |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Posts: 1,160 |
They have had one event there. Obviously, the first time isn't going to be jam packed. Give it a couple years and I am sure it will get closer to what NTPA has for a crowd. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Just Sayin'
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So, why the big difference in attendance at the same venue? It's obviously not because of the venue at Fort Recovery. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Posts: 1,160 |
I just said why... Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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But they've had the benefit pull for a few years already down the road at Greenville. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 02/27/2020 Posts: 31 |
They have had the Benefit Pull at least 3 different places and wet grounds have forced cancellation of at least 2 years |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
Tomah, Chapel Hill, Hutchinson, Rockwell, Brandonberg, Langford
Does PPL or Outlaws have any notable events besides Hillsboro, Fort Recovery and the Schied Show? |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Posts: 170 |
I second LivinOrange: As for Outlaw, Rock Valley, IA and Wisner, NE are two of their biggest events. I really enjoy both of those shows, with lots of trucks and tractors at both.
Aaron Docter Pro Puller Tires 402-840-0244 |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
Rock Valley Iowa and Wisner Nebraska are the biggest outlaw shows, definetly notable if you've ever been. There are alot of great shows on the schedule, both those two, most would agree, are the marquee outlaw shows. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Just Sayin'
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I'm curious as to where the pros and cons are? Meaning, threads are chock full of pullers blasting organizations left and right. I'm interested in people putting some examples out there. Who's does what better or worse?
Example: Just read in the most recent edition of The Puller the money for end of season points/per class/per finish. Is it more than previous years, yes, is it still low, yes. But at least it's there for everyone to see. I'd say that's a PRO for them. Events are great examples also, but what else? How's their scale situations, generally? Track crew? etc, etc, etc |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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I'd have to think that Tomah is the second biggest pull in the country. Awful lot of iron there with alot of guys from other sanctions. Big crowds too |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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I am an antique puller! and love it!! We usually pull for trophies or ribbons. We pull for the love of the sport and comradery , the competition is just as fierce when the hook drops! Some of us have as much time, effort , and in some cases, $$$ as yall do, but it is still pullin' and definitely NOT a way to make money! Wanna do that? Learn to play golf!! |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Pllnfn
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Outlaws- Pros- Typically run well organized shows with good looking equipment, good turnout of pullers because they tend to book classes closer to where a lot of the pullers live. Cons- Most pulls in my area look the same-- same classes, same pull order. Best tractor classes are always last and they pull in front of a much smaller crowd. I think they should always vary the pulling order of classes.
NTPA- Been to Region 5 hooks. Too low with numbers. Tomah is awesome. The best of the best. PPL- Been to Mound City. Fantastic pull. Oddly though, the PPL puts on a slower show. Been to Western Series pulls. They do a good job with good announcers. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
SSDFWD Puller
NTPA-Pros: Leader in safety rules, tradition, some of the grandest pulls around (Tomah, BG, Hutch, Rockwell), approachable leadership at the events, more events closer to me PPL-Pros: Better pay, staging process for Champions tour is well run, crew is usually the same at each event and have a consistently run show, Hillsboro, Fort Recovery, and Scheid are some of my favorite. Ellsworth has huge potential Cons: May not get to pull with either of them this year and that sucks! Makes you all that more thankful to be able to pull in the summer and hopefully make enough money to cover fuel and food for the weekend! |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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300ft Puller
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Why is that in pulling, we are always trying to compare organizations? Make one look better then the other, or bash the one or the other. They all service a particular area of the country. They have their own great events. They each have some really good pulls and pullers. With out any one of the three right now, some events wouldn't be happening. Has anyone ever thought of that? Oulaws, NTPA, and PPL each have their own very special nich in the sport. NTPA - History, Tomah, Bowling Green, leader in rules as well as many longtime pullers. Outlaws - Has many long running events like Rock Valley, Wisner, Deleon, TX Whitewright, TX. They have several pullers that have pulled for decades with the Outlaws They like to run their shows through fast and let their pullers fly down the track. PPL is to me brings a certain level of professionalism to their events. They have taken this sport Television like no other organization. CBS Sports, LUCAS TV. They to have some very good marketing and publicity that helps all of us in this sport. Their bigger events like Scheid probably doesn't get enough national attention. Mound City, MO out west, Henry, IL and Hillsboro, WI are great events to travel to and watch as well. This sport is about the pullers, their families, and the many fans and friends that travel this great country each and every year supporting our sport. This year, I will be thankful for the opportunty to get to go to an Outlaw, NTPA, PPL event at this point. To me right now more then ever we need to as a pulling communicty come together and do something special in 2020. Unite as one to help everyone through these difficult times. Farmers, Small businesses, Large business and families are suffering right now from coast to coast. We are at time in our lives when the Tractor Pulling World needs to unite as "ONE" more now than ever. Many of these great events will be lucky to even happen this year, they will need our support to help make it happen, if and when we are allowed to go. The people of this sport need hope right now, they need something positive to look forward too. Why can't OUTLAWS, NTPA, PPL unite as one in 2020 for something positive. "Together as ONE" 2020! I want to go pulling and I don't really care who is better or worse at it. Just want to see the sport work together for once! We really need to help people and show everyone what this sport can do as one unit! |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Why would NTPA have to adjust their rules for other sanctioning bodies?
NTPA has 50 years as THE sanctioning body. Others have changed their rules to attract certain pullers for any number of reasons but mainly regional issues. NTPA has a rules making process that includes the pullers and unless it's a safety issue, the rules have a time period to be implemented. Other groups can "react" to NTPA rules and change them to draw pullers to their side. PPL isn't set up to be a membership association and that works for them. When Dave Banter retired that was going to be the end of the Grand National modified class. Numbers in every class shirt from time to time. Pro Stock tractors didn't pull a lot of GNPC events back in the day. The Smoker GN class was Super Stocks. FWD had huge numbers, if you were luck you might have 15 TWD at an GNPC now look at the numbers. Most of NTPA's events have a LONG HISTORY and have their DATES all ready established. So that won't change. A little way back machine for you: NTPA event at Pocono Raceway, after the Ohio State Fair and on top of Bowling Green. Despite the rain, didn't really work. Many people continue with the idea that pulling needs to find different venues in different parts of the country. Didn't think it's gonna be big around Atlanta or Los Angeles or Memphis, etc. "Mediocre" may have hit on biggest problem is the slow moving nature of the events. But, don't think that matters much at some locations, they realize it's part of the deal. NHRA had to resort to fines and docking of points for oil downs and teams and NHRA worked on the down time between rounds. Don't think PPL is gonna buy NTPA or vice versa. And that's not gonna add more pulling fans. I think the next step for pulling involves making the shows and events more attractive and fast moving. Working to get more sponsors to the game. That's the big challenge made even more difficult in these times. Today, FRIDAY 4/24 was supposed to be the end of the ban on gatherings of 50 people or more. Maybe that is happening now as some States are beginning to reopen certain areas of commerce. Keep washing those hands. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 03/17/2017 Posts: 139 |
Ft Recovery is to early we are normally still finishing (or last year just getting started planting corn and beans) and catching up on our other things we leave behind while planting and not many in this county will quit to go to watch a tractor pull and or pull until all the work is done. That being said we still love having Ft Recovery 2 times a year again.
As |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 03/17/2017 Posts: 139 |
As for my opinion on ntpa and ppl we have more ntpa events close to us and the competition is all good, but seems like ppl has a few more big money players in all classes. Either way I will go to either organization if I have time. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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What's meant by all groups working as one?
Same rules, coordinating schedules? Also what do people mean when they say take it to the next level? Larger venues? How do you turn non pulling people into fans? more posters, increased local TV commercials? Also I've asked a couple of times with no answer: Whats attendance at Hillsboro, WI? Many people seem to say that's the best PPL Pull? In my opinion the best motorsport from a attendance standpoint seems to be NHRA drag racing? |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Answer to Some of your ???
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Doc.
1. What is meant by all groups working as one ?? If you remember correctly it was one of the reasons for the formation of NTPA. Rules and guidance across all classes so a person could pull any where a NTPA event was held. So to me the 3 major players NTPA, PPL and Outlaw need to get together and make there rules match. There is no need for different rules all over the country. It is one of the problems now. 2. Same rules, coordinating schedules. By solving the rule issue, then the 3 major players can coordinate the schedules and truly crown a point champion each year. I will not get all the pulls listed right but how many pulls do each of them have that would be consider their crown pulls - 4 apiece ?? You then could have say 12 to 16 pull events each year that are truly major events with all the classes and set times and dates that work year after year so fans can schedule there time for these events. It would seem this would also be better for the puller to have a set schedule year to year and be able to plan. 3.What do people mean by next level. By doing number 2 you have created the next level. Major events which are scatter about the country for fans to be able to see, interact and truly get to watch the best in the country go head to head. In doing this you have created a National Level pulling seen, which would help possible draw bigger sponsors and work to develop a National Circuit. Truly make them events, same as NHRA or NASCAR does. Most like NHRA I would say 4. Large Venues By doing 1, 2 and 3 you have to go to larger venues to be able to pull this off as space would be needed and they would be multi day events. Just my thought |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Gee, really sounds like the idea that I posted a few days back (mine had more particulars). LOL JW |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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WELL i'll be
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I guess smart people think alike. Now lets see if you can pull some WPI chain and see if you can get that done. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Hey Doc
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Hey Doc
Where you at?? From your vast experience maybe you should run the Insane Asylum of WPI. You seem to have some inside knowledge as to its happenings. Maybe you can get pulling to the Next Level. Or better said, back to what pulling was. How about it, you game ?? |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Hey Doc
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Hey Doc
You fall off the WPI bandwagon ?? You post a question, you get answer and dead silence. Maybe you are deep in thought and need some time to ponder the answer. Just a reminder that WPI/NTPA quit being a leader of this sport a long time ago. Yeah they have events, but they do not lead the pulling world or it would not be in the mess it is in now. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Questions
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Where did someone answer Docs questions? I see where someone re posted the same comment that prompted the question, but no answer. What is meant by all groups acting as one? NTPA and Outlaw giving their income to Lucas Oil? NTPA and Outlaw selling out to Lucas oil? Lucas Oil and Outlaw exist because they didn't want to follow someone else's rules. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Why should OPP and NTPA sell to Lucas ? Why not Lucas selling to NTPA or OPP? jw |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Old Fan
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What’s in the kool-aid you’re drinking?
Why would Lucas Oil invest in a failing club when their own is doing just fine. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Tell me, what's the price of oil this week? |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Lucas Oil is not an "oil" company. They make and market oil additive products along with a long list of automotive products. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Mediocre
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Just fine is about the right way to put it , the shows I have been to seem to be lackluster, great machines involved but there seems to be something missing , can’t pinpoint it but they seem to lack excitement to me . |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Registered: 02/21/2013 Posts: 9 |
Would love to know what that missing link is? I don't disagree.....I helped promote one particular event with great success but similar response was brought to my attention from management of a drag racing venue of whom we compete for audience. |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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Hey Question
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All you have to do is read the response. The question were numbered as Mr. Riley asked, then with a response. Not Rocket Science |
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Re: PPL vs NTPA vs OUTLAWS vs ?
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In Response to Hey Doc:
I would be game to help the WPI to the next level. I have a 30 plus year expertise in sanctioning bodies, marketing, TV and event management. It would be a great undertaking and would love to do that. To your other point about falling off the bandwagon or why NTPA pulling seems to lost its leadership role. I don't believe that's true. The NTPA rules making process has been in the lead for the past 50 years and has stood the test of time. Yes, some classes or rules change the direction of certain classes. That's kinda why OSTPA, Outlaws and the PPL went their ways. Back in the day there were tons of FWD trucks and a handfull of TWD's. Now that's changed. Pro Stock tractors at a Grand National? Almost unheard of back in the 90's, now their are several pro stock classes. Dave Banter's retirement was going to signal the END of Mod class but it has been strong. Pullers are going to choose an event for a bunch of reasons or they are going to pull with another group and run for their points. The Simon Sez team is a great example for the upcoming year. No idea why, but, ,more power to them. I don't think that NTPA is going to not offer the TWD class to promoters because of the Farley, Iowa team pulling with PPL or hosting Lucas Oil events at the Farley race track. The biggest pulling events, spectator wise, are NTPA events. The events with the longest history are NTPA events. Every other sanctioning body or promoter group copies the NTPA rulebook. More pullers have NTPA memberships. It's a membership association and I can tell you from my vast experience the staff of NTPA works hard for it's members. The big cut of the money that comes into the NTPA goes back out to it's members. Maybe I missed a metric that "HEY DOC" and some others use to measure sanctioning bodies and maybe some of the people who bash NTPA or think try to produce their own events because "NTPA pockets all the money" really don't have the best interest of pulling in mind. Here's to stopping the bench pulling and getting into the grandstands for some All American Pulling Action. Stay safe |
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